THE FUTURE IN LEDS's!!!

sportsballer06

Active Member
Some research, growing forums and people are saying that LED's are fine for supplemental lighting but do not have enough power to grow plants successfully to the budding or flowering stage. Other comments; LED's are fine for vegetative growth and cannot produce enough light to give the plant sufficient energy to fruit, flower or bud up in any bulk; that plants produced are “leggy” and spindly and the fruits and flowers are lack luster as compared to other types of light.
The answer is simple these studies are NOT using enough LED's. Tall, spindly or “leggy” plants are light starved. The solution: use more LED LIGHT!
Our 250 Watt LED can provide the light needed to get the results not seen with other LED products on the market. Designed, engineered and manufactured in Northern California our light is engineered for superior quality with a 50,000 hour 5 year warranty. For those plant types that have large fruits or flowers our 250 Watt LED system will out- perform a 600 Watt HID or HPS while using 50 to 70 percent less electricity. For house plants, sprouts, micro-greens, small bloom flowers such as orchids, our 250 Watt LED system will act like a traditional 1000 watt system. Keep in mind that efficiency is more important than power, meaning bigger is not always better. Consider this, light producing the best spectrum for your plants is based on PAR watts or photosynthetic active radiation watts, and not lumens which is a measure of light designed for the human eye not plants. For those people used to measuring lumens for plant growth you may want to read that again.
*This is a commercial grade product, and NOT to be confused with imitators.

The September 2008 issue of Maximum Yield states,
“A confusing misconception often perceived amongst many cultivators is the idea that more lumens equals more yield. Think of lumens as a measurement of the amount of light observed by the naked eye, and not used by the plant. Depending on the situation, brighter light with an obscure spectrum may not prove as proficient as weaker light with a balanced plant specific growth spectrum.”
Either way LED’s are the wave of the future. With power savings of 50 to 70 percent, the indoor horticulturist cannot afford to not begin to upgrade their older outdated electrical systems. The power levels and light spectrum generated from our system creates radically fast growth and the unit stays very cool in the growing area. This cool indoor environment has three distinct advantages. First, the cool running lights eliminate high heat grow rooms which eliminates any thermal footprint. Second, the need for expensive ventilation is eliminated, which also lowers the users overall electrical footprint. And lastly, the plants can grow just inches above the light source without any fear of scorching. We all know what happens if a ventilation system fails or breaks down. Growing is thus greatly simplified, no heat signature. And for users that are doing hydroponics there is less evaporation and you may see a reduction in your liquid nutrient bill.
Due to the lack of quality in the design, engineering and manufacturing process of many LED units on the market, people are having expectations that are not being met. Our 250 Watt system answers that call with a product of superior design and quality. In order to get great results using only LED's, a unit has to be designed with components and circuitry that can stay cool while emitting the electrical output needed to achieve optimum performance and brightness of the LED.

Our Solid State 250 Watt LED system uses a unique custom designed thermal management system and 5 watt Phillips Luxeon wide angle LED’s. This combination allows for the LED to achieve its optimum brightness so as to provide the light density needed for healthy fat plants. As compared to other LED grow light systems which use only one watt bulbs, one watt LED bulbs cannot achieve the brightness needed to really saturate plants with the light needed for prolific growth. LED grow lights have distinct advantages over traditional indoor plant lighting systems. The light spectrum utilized in LED’s have an absorption rate of 95 to 98 percent compared to the 9 to 12 percent absorption rate that is common with traditional lights. Our light system provides 250 PAR watts per unit.
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif]Also, according to MaximumYield Sept 2008, [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif]“LED light bulbs have been field tested to last up to a decade or more. With current leading industry standard lamps reaching upwards of two-hundred dollars and needing replacement annually, LED’s have very profitable gains in aspect of lamp maintenance, replacement and energy consumption. It literally takes a fraction of the amount of energy needed from standard HID fixtures to operate an LED alternative. In theory, when a LED lighting fixture is purchased, the lamps should have years of future use. The spectral output of LED’s is available in plant specific spectrums minimizing wasted broad-spectrum light that plants do not absorb. Every phase of plant growth is attainable under LED’s nullifying the need for different lamps and wattages during particular growth periods. Heat emissions from LED’s are minuscule so lighting fixtures can be placed closely to canopies without the risk of burning foliage from hot lamps and rapid leaf transpiration. LED light bulbs provide drastic energy savings and prolonged bulb life. If the yield per watt is similar to that of the lower wattage systems like 400 and 600-watts, multiple LED units utilized correctly in the appropriate area could end up saving a gardener a significant sum in the long run.”[/FONT]
Depending on your plant variety, two to three of our 250 Watt LED units will cover a 4x8 ft growing area, producing a rapid 'rain forest’ like growth cycle with quality fruits and or flowers. This is the LED effect but only if the LED unit has enough raw LED power and the circuitry to handle the electrical current to achieve peak performance. Be advised you may have to use more LED's than you have been lead to believe in order to the raise certain varieties of plants that really appreciate lots of extra sun light.
Not all plants are the same and some plants just require MUCH more light. If the sun worshiping plant varieties in your garden do get enough LED light the results will be absolutely hyper-prolific growth and fruiting like you have never seen before! If your plants are not getting the light they deserve then with the money saved on electrical bills alone buy more LED power. The results can be achieved and at a cost savings on electric bills regardless. Save your money on expensive fertilizers and upgrade into extra LED's and you will get results. Additional savings can be earned by never having to buy replacement bulbs.
For the traditionalist who isn’t concerned with reducing expenditures and environmental footprint and wants full spectrum, use our light system as a supplement. Our system recommends replacing every other 600 watt system with one 250 watt LED system unit and two LED system units for replacement of a 1000 watt. Once again plant types may vary upon replacement needs. And for the non believer in current LED technology: replace or test your current 1000 watt system with four of our 250 Watt system units and let the systems show the results. Growers will be thrilled and amazed at the performance watt for watt.
Due to our systems' unique spectrum dials, users can now manipulate the LED light according to the plants needs. Providing excess blue light creates faster greening and stem growth while enriching dark chlorophyll production and excess red light promotes fruiting, seeding and flowering since the plants think winter is coming. The Sun puts off more red and less blue light in the fall so manipulating plants is easy when you have lights that put off plant specific PAR wavelengths! This is perhaps the most important part of growing, the fact that the grower is in full control of the light wavelengths! Plants now react to your needs and that can't be done with that with any other LED grow light on the market. Being able to manipulate the red and blue wavelengths will give indoor growers a new found control over their crops.
For more information and pricing inquire within at [email protected]
If you would like to add your name and phone number in the email a representative will contact you.
REMEMBER: This is a commercial grade product, and NOT to be confused with imitators.
 

Jeffdogg

Well-Known Member
The solution: use more LED LIGHT!
That sounds more like a problem (an expensive on at that), Now if you use more light for LED testing then you should put the equivalent HPS so it will be an "even fight" if you will. Of course if you pile on the LEDs against 1 HPS it will out do it. You just proved by saying use more LED light that it is in fact the lesser of the two. The other day you started off by saying how great and superior it is now your saying to use more LED light to out produce the HPS lol FTL :clap:

Edit: To be honest after looking at that ugly thing again I think they took a food warmer from a restaurant and tossed a few pink colored bulbs in it and slapped a $1000+ price tag on the bitch.
 

Where in the hell am I?

Well-Known Member
I personally don't see the value of LEDs(like you said, EXPENSIVE). Which turns me off, as you are, apparently. That doesn't mean they don't work! I've been an organic gardener since the age of 5(helping ma & pa)! If I can grow corn, tomatoes, squash, peas, carrots, celery, onions, herbs(fresh basil <3), etc. I think I can manage growing weed.

Separate your logic from your emotion. Sounds like something Spock would say.... ;)
Are you serious here?!? The whole point is to get it done as INEXPENSIVELY as possible! If you are fabulously wealthy and can afford the investment, just to see if they WILL do it, then sure! But I am not wealthy! I run a CFL set up, due to it being the most COST EFFECTIVE way of growing indoors for me!
 

Where in the hell am I?

Well-Known Member
To everyone: do you think a 250 watt LED system will outperform a 250 MH/HPS?
ABSOLUTELY NOT! I base that on the countless hours of research that I did trying to find out what way would be the most cost effective way of growing indoors. As of Aug. of last year, there was no upstanding comparison between the two to justify even TRYIN the LED's
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
I meant unproven as in I have NEVER personally seen an LED grow, start to finish, which was strictly LED and produced the same quality of weed in regards to density,stickiness,and overall plant health.And I avidly read as much as I can on here, because I want to grow my stuff right.Now, I am saying, no,LED's don't compare-because of cost,and the need for so MANY of them in order to compete with a HID.You get a 400 watts hps/mh,and it's been proven over and over to have the light penetration you need to grow a nice personal stash for yourself.Combine that with scrog,and/or other techniques,and you could have a massive yeild.That's what I like to hear.A lot, for cheap.:bigjoint:
If you meant "unproven lights" as in the manufacturers name I would not bother to argue with you since maybe it is a new/different product and it is "unproven" but if you meant that LED’s are "unproven" I am sorry to have to be so blunt but were extremely incorrect.

It was discovered a good while back that LED’s make fantastic lights to grow any types of plant with. They put out the precise spectrums of light that plants need and nothing more and they do it putting off extremely little heat and using an astonishingly small amount of electricity. While it is not a case of pot growing NASA has used LED’s for a good while now and grown anything they have tried to grow and grew it very well.

The only two drawbacks they have is cost and light penetration. You can make up for light penetration by adding more lights in different ways/positions BUT because of the cost that is beyond the budget of most making them impractical but the lights themselves have more than just been proven.

A few years back on another herb site I hung around on a guy with money to burn went all LED’s. He covered the entire ceiling area above his grow with light bars that had LED’s that emit both veg and flowering light spectrums and then added LED ‘spotlights’ that were just flowering spectrum lights. He made what I call portable posts, he took 4X4’s and cut them about as long as the tallest plants he grew and on all four sides of some posts he added more light bars and he set them up in between his plants and then on other portable posts he added light bars to one side and made a ring around his grow area.

His plants were amazingly lush and not only did he have major top colas the buds all the way to the bottom were large and thick and firm and heavy. He did not get tiny buds from the bottom of his plants and there were no popcorn buds. His plants were totally flooded from every angle with the precise light spectrums they needed to grow and it showed in his results he posted in his grow thread of the time. I cannot recall ever seeing such impressive results from any other type of setup.

The drawback for most would have been the thousands of dollars he spent to buy as many LED’s as he did. For most it would make growing like he did cost prohibitive. But still the results way more than proved that LED lighting can and will not only grow plants and grow them well but will outdo any other lighting source if you can afford enough lights to do it with. If you cannot afford enough lights then LED’s are absolutely not the way to go unless someone is only using them to supplement some other lighting source.

If there is ever a major cost/price reduction say like happened to plasma screen TV’s where they dropped from around $10,000.00 for the first large sized models to being in the hundreds of dollars for many models LED lighting will totally replace all other lighting, that is if people are intelligent to go the route that is the very best and not live in the past and say HID always worked for me or CFL’s worked for me so I will stick with them.

The light penetration problem may be solved, well it has been solved but the technology is so expensive that it is not marketable right now. A year or two back I read an article about a scientist working at Lawrence Livermore National Lab on improving the amount of light LED’s put off built an LED light that is roughly the size of a standard hand held mirror and it put off more light that a spotlight. I do not mean some small plug into your car’s cigarette lighter type spotlight but instead a BIG spotlight and it still did it without creating much heat or using much electricity so it can be done but right now the technology is so costly that no one would ever buy it so it has not been marketed. If and when the price/cost of the technology drops LED grow lights using that technology would make a 1000 watt HID light look like a candle in comparison and would put out vastly more of the light spectrums plants need without all the wasted light spectrums that HID lighting puts out.

So the technology has more than been proven but they are just cost prohibitive for most to use LED’s because they cannot afford to buy enough lights with the current low light penetration LED’s put out to make up for the low light penetration of current LED’s.
Incandescents can grow plants, too.DOesn't mean it's a good way to go.:peace:
NASA proved LEDs can grow plants.. uh... over 5 fucking years ago.

Did I mention it's proven? They're over 5 times as efficient as HID(for plants, not lumens). When using at proper distance.... even more, probably. Like LED = 1 inch away... vs. HID = 6-12" or whatever.

Learn more here: http://tinyurl.com/aolnge

Short-term memory loss becomes long-term memory loss. bongsmilie
If LED's became cost effective,and a say, 250 watt LED could out perform a HID of the same wattage, I'd go for it.But there has been no proof, and they're too expensive.Even the website says you need many panels, based on the type of plant you want to grow.watts are watts, in as far as your electricity bill goes.So.....I just can't see the benefit of paying 3 grand for a setup that is also going to cost me more in electricity, when I can get the same result for less initial cost and less watts with a HID.:mrgreen:
I never made claims to LED superiority in any fashion other than PAR light per watt. And even light per watt(up to 130-160 lm/W). Which is a *fact*. It only stands to reason at equivalent wattage LEDS would out-perform HID(HPS/MH specifically) for growing plants. MH is technically superior to HPS as well. Check out Hortilux lights, they have a dual HPS/MH bulb. I've seen some very impressive grows with them. Beats solo-HPS easily.

LPS, or low pressure sodium emits 200 lm/W('best light EVAR' in web-speak). They also emit their light at around 589-590 nm. Pretty much useless for plants.

NASA has proven (red & blue) LEDs work to grow plants, *fact*.

LEDs will grow marijuana, *fact*.

What is it with people and *facts*?

Let me take a swing at it:

Most people(at least the LOUD ones) here have a complete lack of understanding about the spectrum and intensities of light required for optimal plant growth and photosynthesis. They go around stating baseless and fallacious information. Making comparisons where they ought not.

You seem to be in that category.

Plant growth is a SCIENCE. Not Voodoo.

You disclaiming my statements based on my post count only demonstrates your complete foolishness and lack of understanding. :dunce:
Here's an example of some LED grows I googled.The first one is a venus flytrap.It looks stretched.http://led4smarts.wordpress.com/2006/12/22/venus-fly-traps-n-leds/
Here's a grow journal on another site.It hasn't been updated in a couple of months.Looking stretched. http://forum.grasscity.com/general-indoor-growing/299800-procyon-100-led-grow-lamp-seed-w-pics.html
This is an LED/cfl grow.The guy states his plant is tiny in one of his posts.They look good, but note he's not using LED's exclusively.http://www.420magazine.com/forums/completed-journals/74397-led-cfl-grow-test-new-leds-2.html
Finally, here's another.He shows some harvest pics on page two......I don't know if these were harvest from LED's. He does mention spending 400 dollars per UFO. The plants look pretty good.http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34609
 

ghib

Active Member
A lot of people on here talk about leds as though they're all the same, like one hps bulb to another. I think leds have a lot of potential, but since most manufacturers are out for money they normally use easier to find/cheaper/not the right wavelength leds. The peak wavelength of an ordinary blue led doesn't fall directly on the peak area for blue light absorbtion by chlorophyll, the same for ordinary red leds. LedEngin makes a 660nm deep red which is more suitable than the usual 630nm reds, since it falls almost directly on chlorophyll a's second peak (~662nm) and should hit some of b's second peak (~642). If you use both 660nm and 630nm leds you should have red pretty well covered. Luxeon makes a 455nm royal blue that is better than normal 670nm blue because it falls on chlorophyll b's first peak (~453nm), but then you need something to cover chlorophyll a's first peak (~430nm), the 455nm led will hit some of it, but not all. There are leds around 430nm but they're pretty hard to find, especially if you want it to be high power. So that's just for chlorophyll, you should also take into account other compounds that need light like beta-carotene. If you want a good led light, you'll probably have to make it yourself.
 

bterz

Well-Known Member
You guys are all rippin him a new one for spending his money.
Shit if I did that, and everyone ripped me, I'd feel pretty bad about my investment.

Kudos to those who are being mature about it and being generous while explaining the positive/negatives of LED's.
 

EKIMRI

Well-Known Member
Positives about LED lights, huh?


...I'm glad he didn't spend my hard earned cash on it?




Seriously, I'm always ready and willing to learn, I just haven't seen any quality start to finish grows using LED's... change my mind and the minds of others and the masses will bring the lights into my realm of affordability.

For now, I'm rollin' old school


bongsmilie
 

lampshade

Well-Known Member
Positives about LED lights, huh?


...I'm glad he didn't spend my hard earned cash on it?




Seriously, I'm always ready and willing to learn, I just haven't seen any quality start to finish grows using LED's... change my mind and the minds of others and the masses will bring the lights into my realm of affordability.



bongsmilie
For now, I'm rollin' old school




Im with bterz. Im actually suprised this thread is still going. Back in the day we all used flouros. The best system back then was a converted construction light or sports court/field light. Those were shitty MH's. We grew well with flouros, and with MH. That includes flowering. There wasnt warm spectrum bulbs back then either for the MH. LEDS ARE THE FUTURE. Just not now. Thank god there is someone out there trying them, b/c it seems people dont want to give them a chance. But thats human nature, you get in a rut and you dont want to change your mind. Did you know that cannabinoids help you accept new ideas. You guys need to go smoke a doob... or a dozen. Lamp.
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
Well, it's not my intention to rip the OP a new ass, I just want him to back up his claim, that right now, his lights are better than HID.I'd love to see it.But I still can't see how it's cost effective for me.I used to work as a telemarketer, so when something sounds like a sales pitch to me, I want them to present the benefits.:peace:
 

Jeffdogg

Well-Known Member
You guys are all rippin him a new one for spending his money.
Shit if I did that, and everyone ripped me, I'd feel pretty bad about my investment.

Kudos to those who are being mature about it and being generous while explaining the positive/negatives of LED's.
Not really ripping him because he spent so much money on the kit. But he comes on here saying his light system is the best, tries to convince us that its so more superior then what we have. He's just advertising a P.O.S. light trying to get other people to buy it so he dont feel like he was the only one who got ripped off.:bigjoint:
 

TeaTreeOil

Well-Known Member
It's hard to say whether or not LEDs are cost effective(they too suffer from degradation). You'd have to take into consideration the kWh, yields, and lifetime of 'bulbs'.

As for marijuana, I'm sure these studies have not been deductively investigated conclusively as they could be. But if you choose to use *some* inductive logic rather than solely deductive reasoning... they seem promising.

I use floros. They're cheap and get the job done. :peace:
 

lampshade

Well-Known Member
It's hard to say whether or not LEDs are cost effective(they too suffer from degradation). You'd have to take into consideration the kWh, yields, and lifetime of 'bulbs'.

As for marijuana, I'm sure these studies have not been deductively investigated conclusively as they could be. But if you choose to use *some* inductive logic rather than solely deductive reasoning... they seem promising.

I use floros, they're cheap and get the job done. :peace:
I understand ripping cockiness.
 

sportsballer06

Active Member
For now, I'm rollin' old school




Im with bterz. Im actually suprised this thread is still going. Back in the day we all used flouros. The best system back then was a converted construction light or sports court/field light. Those were shitty MH's. We grew well with flouros, and with MH. That includes flowering. There wasnt warm spectrum bulbs back then either for the MH. LEDS ARE THE FUTURE. Just not now. Thank god there is someone out there trying them, b/c it seems people dont want to give them a chance. But thats human nature, you get in a rut and you dont want to change your mind. Did you know that cannabinoids help you accept new ideas. You guys need to go smoke a doob... or a dozen. Lamp.
Thank you! everyone here is hating on LED's! How can people say they are not going to be the future? Isnt that the heading of this post? And why does the manufacturer of this product compare the 250 watt LED system to that of a 600-800 watt HPS/MH? Im sure they have done their testing and what-not. They cant say that it compares to the 600-800 watt HPS/MH and it not be true, isnt that false advertisement? These LED's that just came out are brand spankin new, no one has tested them usng pot so how could people say they are worthless? No one knows what these lights put out etc...

Everyone needs to chill out an smoke 1
 

JonnyDankness

Active Member
1399.99 ya my first grow room I spent that much lol. The day I spend 1400 on one light I'll buy those 500 dollar elephant seeds.
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
It's hard to say whether or not LEDs are cost effective(they too suffer from degradation). You'd have to take into consideration the kWh, yields, and lifetime of 'bulbs'.

As for marijuana, I'm sure these studies have not been deductively investigated conclusively as they could be. But if you choose to use *some* inductive logic rather than solely deductive reasoning... they seem promising.

I use floros. They're cheap and get the job done. :peace:
The op claims his LED's are better than HID's like in the other thread you infer your t5's were better than HID's...

Not that I care to bring some stupid argument up again or am going to follow you around and pick on you, just happened upon this and then noticed here your tone changed and now you say you use flouro's cause they're cheap and easy.

Sorry, had to point that out.

Back to your regularly scheduled topic people, where everyone just keeps on talking and no proof is given. You'll never convince the op he's wrong unless you bust into his house, throw his led on the ground and keep him captive for two months forcing him to do a grow with HPS. Until then, he's committed to believe what he wants to believe.
 

sportsballer06

Active Member
Not really ripping him because he spent so much money on the kit. But he comes on here saying his light system is the best, tries to convince us that its so more superior then what we have. He's just advertising a P.O.S. light trying to get other people to buy it so he dont feel like he was the only one who got ripped off.:bigjoint:
You are the only one talking shit about it pretty much... And yes i am going to say that this 250 watt LED is more powerful and can produce more than a reg 250 watt MH/HPS. I never said it was better then anything you use! For all i know you can be running a system thats 1000000 watts, and im not going to say its better then that so get ur facts straight... And, for your information I did not purchase the system, no money came out of my pocket. :finger:
And still you talk a bunch of shit behind a computer screen man. You are a very stubborn person. How do u figure that this system is a POS? Have you used it? HAve you done research on it? Have you talked to the scientists behind the project? Have you talked to the owner who makes the product? I didn thtink so.... So get out of here!:finger:
 

TeaTreeOil

Well-Known Member
The op claims his LED's are better than HID's like in the other thread you infer your t5's were better than HID's...

Not that I care to bring some stupid argument up again or am going to follow you around and pick on you, just happened upon this and then noticed here your tone changed and now you say you use flouro's cause they're cheap and easy.

Sorry, had to point that out.

Back to your regularly scheduled topic people, where everyone just keeps on talking and no proof is given. You'll never convince the op he's wrong unless you bust into his house, throw his led on the ground and keep him captive for two months forcing him to do a grow with HPS. Until then, he's committed to believe what he wants to believe.
Oh really? Links?

T5's are floros, FYI.

:wall:
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
If it's more powerful, please, please post a grow journal and SHOW us.We want to know.Hell, we're all growers, we're happy to use new technology if it really is beneficial to our grow.If this light is better than an equivalent HID, PLEASE,it needs to be documented.:mrgreen:
You are the only one talking shit about it pretty much... And yes i am going to say that this 250 watt LED is more powerful and can produce more than a reg 250 watt MH/HPS. I never said it was better then anything you use! For all i know you can be running a system thats 1000000 watts, and im not going to say its better then that so get ur facts straight... And, for your information I did not purchase the system, no money came out of my pocket. :finger:
And still you talk a bunch of shit behind a computer screen man. You are a very stubborn person. How do u figure that this system is a POS? Have you used it? HAve you done research on it? Have you talked to the scientists behind the project? Have you talked to the owner who makes the product? I didn thtink so.... So get out of here!:finger:
 
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