Anarchists?

[magicSpoons]

Any anarchos on RIU? Probably not, but I'm an anarchist-communist myself and part of the Anarchist Federation in the UK. We are class struggle anarchists who think that a truly free society can only be created by the revolutionary activity of the working class (in the sense of anybody repressed by the system) on a mass scale. We organise as a federation in a non-hierarchical, non-coercive manner and we take part in working class struggle locally, nationally and to the best we can, internationally. We see direct action and grassroots democracy as a means of achieving what we call a 'culture of resistance' where people will learn that we don't need the government and coercive instruments like the army and police to live our lives. Capitalism is inherently anti working class and anti-human because it only exists to accumulate 'capital', and it will do so regardless of the problems it causes in society on a grand scale and in making your lives shit too with work, monotony, and the endless cycle of production and consumption. Capitalism pits human beings against one another in competition, in companies, in communities, in war, in our lives. Social Darwinists say this is the natural state of humans but this is not the case, human beings live best in solidarity - in the realisation that we all share the same struggle for survival and that capitalism enhances the struggle by splitting us up and forcing us to work and consume for the inhuman needs of capital, which is dead labour.

Questions?

 

[NoDrama]

An anarchist communist eh? Isn't that like being an abortion doctor who is pro life? Communism is Total Government control, anarchy is 0 government. they are the opposite in spectrum so how can you be both? Or are you really trying to say your a commune who believes in no government at all? And if you have NO government who would be responsible for protecting others rights?

 

[Dolce Vita]

dude i let the air out of his tires! he almost got out of first gear lol

 

[ViRedd]

Any anarchos on RIU? Probably not, but I'm an anarchist-communist myself and part of the Anarchist Federation in the UK. We are class struggle anarchists who think that a truly free society can only be created by the revolutionary activity of the working class (in the sense of anybody repressed by the system) on a mass scale. We organise as a federation in a non-hierarchical, non-coercive manner and we take part in working class struggle locally, nationally and to the best we can, internationally. We see direct action and grassroots democracy as a means of achieving what we call a 'culture of resistance' where people will learn that we don't need the government and coercive instruments like the army and police to live our lives. Capitalism is inherently anti working class and anti-human because it only exists to accumulate 'capital', and it will do so regardless of the problems it causes in society on a grand scale and in making your lives shit too with work, monotony, and the endless cycle of production and consumption. Capitalism pits human beings against one another in competition, in companies, in communities, in war, in our lives. Social Darwinists say this is the natural state of humans but this is not the case, human beings live best in solidarity - in the realisation that we all share the same struggle for survival and that capitalism enhances the struggle by splitting us up and forcing us to work and consume for the inhuman needs of capital, which is dead labour.

Questions?

So, under your system, how does bread get on the shelves?

Vi

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Any anarchos on RIU? Probably not, but I'm an anarchist-communist myself and part of the Anarchist Federation in the UK. We are class struggle anarchists who think that a truly free society can only be created by the revolutionary activity of the working class (in the sense of anybody repressed by the system) on a mass scale. We organise as a federation in a non-hierarchical, non-coercive manner and we take part in working class struggle locally, nationally and to the best we can, internationally. We see direct action and grassroots democracy as a means of achieving what we call a 'culture of resistance' where people will learn that we don't need the government and coercive instruments like the army and police to live our lives. Capitalism is inherently anti working class and anti-human because it only exists to accumulate 'capital', and it will do so regardless of the problems it causes in society on a grand scale and in making your lives shit too with work, monotony, and the endless cycle of production and consumption. Capitalism pits human beings against one another in competition, in companies, in communities, in war, in our lives. Social Darwinists say this is the natural state of humans but this is not the case, human beings live best in solidarity - in the realisation that we all share the same struggle for survival and that capitalism enhances the struggle by splitting us up and forcing us to work and consume for the inhuman needs of capital, which is dead labour.

Questions?

Anarchy and Communism/Socialism/Fascism are not compatible ideologies, that is, you can not have Anarchy and Communism, because there is no way to solve the free rider problem, and because of the free rider problem people will get sick of working their ass off for people that are lazy, thus you end up either letting people who work keep everything for themselves, or you end up instituting a government to force people to slave for others.

Incompatible Ideologies.

It's like saying you want to live and want to die at the same time. Either you can choose to live, or you can choose to off yourself, you can't actually really have it both ways.

 

[i grow everglades bud]

Anarchy and Communism/Socialism/Fascism are not compatible ideologies, that is, you can not have Anarchy and Communism, because there is no way to solve the free rider problem, and because of the free rider problem people will get sick of working their ass off for people that are lazy, thus you end up either letting people who work keep everything for themselves, or you end up instituting a government to force people to slave for others.

Incompatible Ideologies.

It's like saying you want to live and want to die at the same time. Either you can choose to live, or you can choose to off yourself, you can't actually really have it both ways.

hay man.... sounds like you know your stuff!! seriously not busting your balls or nothing but stangely the way you descibed that sounds crazily alot like america, your pretty much saying the rich will get richer and the poor poorer. lmao
just thought id say that.

get lifted

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

hay man.... sounds like you know your stuff!! seriously not busting your balls or nothing but stangely the way you descibed that sounds crazily alot like america, your pretty much saying the rich will get richer and the poor poorer. lmao
just thought id say that.

get lifted

Yeah, that pretty much somes it up, but even under a Communist/Fascist government the rich are going to get richer, because they will still have political connections.

No matter what ideology is adhered to the poor are going to get trampled, just the difference is they can either be sold a bunch of BS and stripped of their liberties in exchange for the government taking care of them like infants, or they have their freedom and liberty under capitalism and have a chance of escaping for poverty.

:: shrugs ::

Of course, I might just have a bourgousie middle class way of looking at this shit, but I know what side my bread is buttered on, and it isn't on the government's side. That side's already eaten before I even finish buttering the other side.

 

[NoDrama]

Hell mine gets eaten while im still in the fridge retrieving the butter in the first place.

 

[magicSpoons]

An anarchist communist eh? Isn't that like being an abortion doctor who is pro life? Communism is Total Government control, anarchy is 0 government. they are the opposite in spectrum so how can you be both? Or are you really trying to say your a commune who believes in no government at all? And if you have NO government who would be responsible for protecting others rights?

You're misinformed of communism. What you are thinking of is the authoritarian breed of so called 'communism' created by Lenin and most infamously Stalin. In actual fact, I would say that state communism like in the former USSR is nothing more than a bastard form of capitalism, where all the capital goes into the hands of the government, as opposed the form of capitalism we know, where the profits go to the bosses and the bankers etc. Both systems, whatever the name, are anti-human.

I like this quote that I think describes communism best:
"This tendency to create community by fighting against the conditions of our lives—and therefore against work, money, exchange, borders, nations, governments, police, religion, and race—has at times been called “communism”.

ie. communism is organising ourselves against our common class enemy - the capitalists, and creating our own new communities that are autonomous and resist oppression, be it economic, beauracratic or otherwise.

Anarchism goes hand in hand with the communism that I have described because ( and I'll quote again) :
"This tendency of working class struggles to go outside and against the government and politics, and to create new forms of organization that do not put our faith in anything other than our own ability, has at times been called “anarchism”."

I hope that clears it up, the 'communism' you were thinking of is a common mistake thanks to popular misconception and the obvious negative connotations that the word 'communism' has because of history.

I'd highly recommend reading WORK . COMMUNITY . POLITICS . WAR on www.prole.info to anybody who reads this thread.

So, under your system, how does bread get on the shelves?

Vi

In the free society, where we are not subject to the inhuman needs of capital, the actual minimum amount of hours of work a person would have to do in a day is about three hours. This is because today whole industries revolve around paperwork, insurance and banking, real estate and useless industries like arms manufacturing. They don't care if you finish early, they just want your time, enough of it to make you belong to them. In the free society, creation can be made into recreation because we will only spend our time working on things we want and need, whether this be as a community or an individual.

Anarchy and Communism/Socialism/Fascism are not compatible ideologies, that is, you can not have Anarchy and Communism, because there is no way to solve the free rider problem, and because of the free rider problem people will get sick of working their ass off for people that are lazy, thus you end up either letting people who work keep everything for themselves, or you end up instituting a government to force people to slave for others.

Incompatible Ideologies.

It's like saying you want to live and want to die at the same time. Either you can choose to live, or you can choose to off yourself, you can't actually really have it both ways.

Ok, I don't know where you get fascism from but you will find that all anarchists are anti-fascist but I won't go into that.

Once again I think you have the wrong idea about socialism and communism as systems with a state, but I have explained previously that 'state socialism' and 'state communism' are really just forms of captalism.

As for free riders, it will be up to the community in the free society as to how to deal with these people, as I have previously explained, work will not be as much of a priority and it will be up to the individual as to if they work, when, where, and how. There will be less hatred towards work as it will no longer be hierarchical and coercive. But if there are people obviously being parasitic and un co-operative, it may be up to the community to say 'no more' to the individual and tell him he either helps or doesn't get any more. But that is just one hypothetical outcome, I can't predict or dictate the future. Work will be a completely different, liberated and creative experience in the free society.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

You're misinformed of communism. What you are thinking of is the authoritarian breed of so called 'communism' created by Lenin and most infamously Stalin. In actual fact, I would say that state communism like in the former USSR is nothing more than a bastard form of capitalism, where all the capital goes into the hands of the government, as opposed the form of capitalism we know, where the profits go to the bosses and the bankers etc. Both systems, whatever the name, are anti-human.

I like this quote that I think describes communism best:
"This tendency to create community by fighting against the conditions of our lives—and therefore against work, money, exchange, borders, nations, governments, police, religion, and race—has at times been called “communism”.

ie. communism is organising ourselves against our common class enemy - the capitalists, and creating our own new communities that are autonomous and resist oppression, be it economic, beauracratic or otherwise.

Anarchism goes hand in hand with the communism that I have described because ( and I'll quote again) :
"This tendency of working class struggles to go outside and against the government and politics, and to create new forms of organization that do not put our faith in anything other than our own ability, has at times been called “anarchism”."

I hope that clears it up, the 'communism' you were thinking of is a common mistake thanks to popular misconception and the obvious negative connotations that the word 'communism' has because of history.

I'd highly recommend reading WORK . COMMUNITY . POLITICS . WAR on www.prole.info to anybody who reads this thread.





In the free society, where we are not subject to the inhuman needs of capital, the actual minimum amount of hours of work a person would have to do in a day is about three hours. This is because today whole industries revolve around paperwork, insurance and banking, real estate and useless industries like arms manufacturing. They don't care if you finish early, they just want your time, enough of it to make you belong to them. In the free society, creation can be made into recreation because we will only spend our time working on things we want and need, whether this be as a community or an individual.



Ok, I don't know where you get fascism from but you will find that all anarchists are anti-fascist but I won't go into that.

Once again I think you have the wrong idea about socialism and communism as systems with a state, but I have explained previously that 'state socialism' and 'state communism' are really just forms of captalism.

As for free riders, it will be up to the community in the free society as to how to deal with these people, as I have previously explained, work will not be as much of a priority and it will be up to the individual as to if they work, when, where, and how. There will be less hatred towards work as it will no longer be hierarchical and coercive. But if there are people obviously being parasitic and un co-operative, it may be up to the community to say 'no more' to the individual and tell him he either helps or doesn't get any more. But that is just one hypothetical outcome, I can't predict or dictate the future. Work will be a completely different, liberated and creative experience in the free society.

It already is up to the individual how, when and where they work. Surely you are not advocating that people that are not certified to be doctors should be allowed to practice medicine? (on the other hand I don't see any problem opening up law to any one that cares to practice being a liar, err, lawyer.)

The choice of career relies upon qualification, which implies education and training. You get the education and training, and you have more options, even under a pure anarchist system that would not change, as companies or individuals would not entrust the operation of high tech machinery to people that can not prove they are certified to run it.

And Fascism (National Socialism) is a form of Socialism. NAZI (National Socialist) Germany was a Socialist Entity, so saying that you don't understand where I'm getting Fascism from to link it with Socialism/Communism reveals a staggering absence of intellectual honesty or a staggering amount of ignorance regarding how the ideology of communism/socialism has been used.

None of the above explains how you expect Anarcho-Communism to work, it will either become the Statist Tyranny of Socialism/Communism, or it will become a Anarcho-Capitalist System where people refuse to support the free riders. Either way the eventual trend indicates that the system will organize either into a state ran economy, or an open economy dominated by large corporations that serve as focal points for the rest of the economy. Kind of like the formation of crystals in an aqueous solution.

 

[magicSpoons]

It already is up to the individual how, when and where they work. Surely you are not advocating that people that are not certified to be doctors should be allowed to practice medicine? (on the other hand I don't see any problem opening up law to any one that cares to practice being a liar, err, lawyer.)

The choice of career relies upon qualification, which implies education and training. You get the education and training, and you have more options, even under a pure anarchist system that would not change, as companies or individuals would not entrust the operation of high tech machinery to people that can not prove they are certified to run it.

And Fascism (National Socialism) is a form of Socialism. NAZI (National Socialist) Germany was a Socialist Entity, so saying that you don't understand where I'm getting Fascism from to link it with Socialism/Communism reveals a staggering absence of intellectual honesty or a staggering amount of ignorance regarding how the ideology of communism/socialism has been used.

None of the above explains how you expect Anarcho-Communism to work, it will either become the Statist Tyranny of Socialism/Communism, or it will become a Anarcho-Capitalist System where people refuse to support the free riders. Either way the eventual trend indicates that the system will organize either into a state ran economy, or an open economy dominated by large corporations that serve as focal points for the rest of the economy. Kind of like the formation of crystals in an aqueous solution.

It certainly isn't up to people to where, how and when they work - if you have been made redundant due to the economic crisis, you'd take any job you get because you need to survive and feed yourself/family. And people in less economically developed countries - do you really think they enjoy 18 hours a day in the sweatshops for negligible amounts of money?

I'm not advocating 'under-qualified' people fly planes and build suspension bridges or whatever, but I'd say working within your means is just sensible and is often more rewarding than doing something you can't understand or do. That's not to say people in the free society can't try various things to do- as opposed to the endless repetition of tasks in today's work.

Machinery and factories and other places of work that will need to be preserved in the free society will be owned by everyone and no-one, not individuals or companies, that means workplaces can be organised non-hierarchically and in a truly grassroots democratic fashion. It will be up to these councils of workers to decide who does what, but only if that person wants to, there is no force involved.

I can honestly assure you that fascism has nothing to do with socialism, and don't take definitons from Nazis, you just can't trust them, they will just invade you for Lebensraum, just ask Poland. As for the rest, I will call upon Wikipedia:
Fascism is much defined by what it opposes, what scholars call the fascist negations - its opposition to individualism,[10] rationalism, liberalism, conservatism and communism.

As for explaining how Anarcho-communsim will work, other than giving my interpretation of how the free society will be achieved through resistance and revolution, there is no set way of saying exactly how it will work, it will be up to the communities in the free society to organise as they see fit for their needs. Giving out diktats like 'this must happen in the anarchist communist society' is clearly hypocritical because I would be dictating the future. As I quoted before: "to create new forms of organization that do not put our faith in anything other than our own ability".

 

[magicSpoons]

Aside from all this political hoo-ha, feel free to check my PC grow!

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

It certainly isn't up to people to where, how and when they work - if you have been made redundant due to the economic crisis, you'd take any job you get because you need to survive and feed yourself/family. And people in less economically developed countries - do you really think they enjoy 18 hours a day in the sweatshops for negligible amounts of money?

I'm not advocating 'under-qualified' people fly planes and build suspension bridges or whatever, but I'd say working within your means is just sensible and is often more rewarding than doing something you can't understand or do. That's not to say people in the free society can't try various things to do- as opposed to the endless repetition of tasks in today's work.

Machinery and factories and other places of work that will need to be preserved in the free society will be owned by everyone and no-one, not individuals or companies, that means workplaces can be organised non-hierarchically and in a truly grassroots democratic fashion. It will be up to these councils of workers to decide who does what, but only if that person wants to, there is no force involved.

I can honestly assure you that fascism has nothing to do with socialism, and don't take definitons from Nazis, you just can't trust them, they will just invade you for Lebensraum, just ask Poland. As for the rest, I will call upon Wikipedia:
Fascism is much defined by what it opposes, what scholars call the fascist negations - its opposition to individualism,[10] rationalism, liberalism, conservatism and communism.

As for explaining how Anarcho-communsim will work, other than giving my interpretation of how the free society will be achieved through resistance and revolution, there is no set way of saying exactly how it will work, it will be up to the communities in the free society to organise as they see fit for their needs. Giving out diktats like 'this must happen in the anarchist communist society' is clearly hypocritical because I would be dictating the future. As I quoted before: "to create new forms of organization that do not put our faith in anything other than our own ability".

No, Fascism was a form of Socialism, one only need to look at how closely the major corporations and the state cooperated. While there was the pretentions of a Capitalistic Society in Germany, the fact was that the economy was dominated by the government, and what it demanded of the major corporations (which were granted liberties not extended to other businesses because of their political connections.)

Besides, resistance and revolution only guarantee that the worst will come out on top. Very rarely has a revolution ever been conducted by honorable individuals. I can only think of two examples, the US Revolution, and the last of the Servile Rebellions of Rome.

As far as a democratic work place. That's comical, that's like arguing that the military should be organized along democratic lines. It wont work, because some one has to be in charge, because some one is going to need to be held culpable when the business fails, in addition to organizing it and putting up the capital, or are you ignoring the fact that entrepreneurship is capital intensive?

Besides, for the most part the largest of all corporations are publicly (worker) owned, but the workers vote for a Board of Directors, that choose people to run the company. Very nice, tight, representative way of organization that limits the amount of damage any one person can do, it also serves to ensure that the corporation will not be hijacked by some one going off half-cocked.

Now, while I disagree with the level of executive compensation at firms like Goldman Sachs, and other Financial Institutions, I'm not inclined to argue against the right of Goldman Sachs and those Institutions to compensate their employees however they want. If the shareholders have a problem with it, then they need to get off their ass, withdraw their funds from the mutual funds (which act as insipid passive investors) and purchase the stock in their own name so they can exercise the prerogative of ownership, namely being able to vote on matters of corporate governance.

Communism destroys entrepreneurship, which is the basis on which the economy rests. Besides, even under Communism there are going to be economic downturns, and unless the economy can react to them there is no possible way of actually escaping from recessions and depressions quickly. The Capitalist system allows for a flexible system that can adapt and change to circumstances, and while it does have its flaws, it is much better at operating an economy that the alternatives.

Besides, you still haven't solved the free rider problem, but apparently are content to make it worse by allowing the free riders to have more authorization to screw everyone else over by allowing them to hijack corporations.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Aside from all this political hoo-ha, feel free to check my PC grow!

Best of luck with your grow though.

 

[Scubasteve420]

Who does the job nobody wants to do? Like the guy who has to clean the mini biff.

There are no laws in the free society? Can you do whatever you please without consequences?

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Who does the job nobody wants to do? Like the guy who has to clean the mini biff.

There are no laws in the free society? Can you do whatever you please without consequences?

Ideally in a free society as long as you do not harm any one else (and thus incite mob violence) then you would be free to do whatever you want, use your own property however you want, and in general pursue whatever vocational enterprises you want free of undue interference from any group or organization.

In short, it would be a completely voluntary society, which imo, is what society should be, instead of the statist compulsory system that is slowly being erected around us.

Of course, under Anarcho-Communism, it appears that everyone would have to be beholden to everyone else, and thus the system either evolves into Anarcho-Capitalism or it fails and collapses into Statist Communism.

 

[magicSpoons]

No, Fascism was a form of Socialism, one only need to look at how closely the major corporations and the state cooperated. While there was the pretentions of a Capitalistic Society in Germany, the fact was that the economy was dominated by the government, and what it demanded of the major corporations (which were granted liberties not extended to other businesses because of their political connections.)

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this point, I honestly think fascism and socialism, despite their many forms, are not compatible ideologies - whatever that means.

Besides, resistance and revolution only guarantee that the worst will come out on top. Very rarely has a revolution ever been conducted by honorable individuals. I can only think of two examples, the US Revolution, and the last of the Servile Rebellions of Rome.

1936 Spain. Anarcho-syndicalists, who aim to achieve the same free society as anarcho-communists but believe it can be done by joining one big revolutionary union, took control of Catalonia and many parts of Spain in the midst of the civil war, it wasn't perfect by any means but the free society came alive for just a few months, then Franco took hold.

Besides, I refuse to be accountable for all the revolutions in history, the revolution I envisage is one to create a better society, not a worse one.

As far as a democratic work place. That's comical, that's like arguing that the military should be organized along democratic lines. It wont work, because some one has to be in charge, because some one is going to need to be held culpable when the business fails, in addition to organizing it and putting up the capital, or are you ignoring the fact that entrepreneurship is capital intensive?

There will be no businesses, no corporations, no companies, no money, no profit margins, no success and failure rates, no supply and demand. This is because capital, the alienated dead labour that is stored up in commodities, will no longer exist - we will no longer have to work to create more capital, and that's all capital does, accumulates. Once capital is abolished, people can work in groups to get what they need to survive and whatever else they want. They will be working solely for themselves and the community.

As for organisation it is up to the working class to learn through struggles in this society, how best to work together in a non-coercive way.

Besides, for the most part the largest of all corporations are publicly (worker) owned, but the workers vote for a Board of Directors, that choose people to run the company. Very nice, tight, representative way of organization that limits the amount of damage any one person can do, it also serves to ensure that the corporation will not be hijacked by some one going off half-cocked.

There will be no corporations. 'Worker owned' corporations may exist, but the bosses they elect will still screw them over - even a militant union member might be elected onto such a representative council but he will no longer be working in the interest of his colleagues for better pay, conditions, less work, he will be working for capital and he will soon forgo his pro-worker attitude and become corrupted by power. That's hierarchy. In the UK, we have the parliamentary system, even to most fiery and radical MP - once he is elected and has a seat in the House of Commons, he will be tamed and will have to drop whatever radical principles he had and blend in. Such is the logic of power and hierarchy.

Now, while I disagree with the level of executive compensation at firms like Goldman Sachs, and other Financial Institutions, I'm not inclined to argue against the right of Goldman Sachs and those Institutions to compensate their employees however they want. If the shareholders have a problem with it, then they need to get off their ass, withdraw their funds from the mutual funds (which act as insipid passive investors) and purchase the stock in their own name so they can exercise the prerogative of ownership, namely being able to vote on matters of corporate governance.

No corporations.

Communism destroys entrepreneurship, which is the basis on which the economy rests. Besides, even under Communism there are going to be economic downturns, and unless the economy can react to them there is no possible way of actually escaping from recessions and depressions quickly. The Capitalist system allows for a flexible system that can adapt and change to circumstances, and while it does have its flaws, it is much better at operating an economy that the alternatives.

There won't really be an economy in the free society, for there will no measure of economical standing, ie capital.

Besides, you still haven't solved the free rider problem, but apparently are content to make it worse by allowing the free riders to have more authorization to screw everyone else over by allowing them to hijack corporations.

Nobody has authority over anybody else in the free society, if a community identifies and prolific and un-cooperative free rider, it is up to them to deal with him, and before you say 'by executing him' or something, bear in mind that after the revolution people will relise that non-coercive tactics are far better when dealing with people than force.

Often what you seem to be thinking of is some sort of market- anarchism like anarcho-capitalism but I would say that isn't even anarchistic because it preserves hierarchical structures of power and instruments of coercion.

 

[Thundercat]

The thing about all of this is that its mostly theoretical politics. The principle of Communism could in theory lead to a perfect society, but unfortunately theoretical Communism and real life are a far cry. I agree though that capitalism is just as in human though. Capitalism is what drives the greed in society. Thats why so many people are in favor of it. They see any other sort of social system as a threat to their nest eggs. To many people are drivin by this greed which is going to drag this country and world down! People need to open their eyes to reality, and embrace true social preservation, rather then social prohibition.

Oh and why the hell is every one so worried about taking care of the "free-riders"? As far as I'm concerned if for some reason they physically, or mentally can't hold a job, thats one thing, they need everyones help. But if they are just free riding through life, like I see way to many people doing these days, then fuck them. Cut them off, they can decide to either be a beneficial member of society, or not be a member of said society period! "there's no such thing as a free lunch", economics 101. Peace TC

 

[magicSpoons]

Who does the job nobody wants to do? Like the guy who has to clean the mini biff.

There are no laws in the free society? Can you do whatever you please without consequences?

Undesirable jobs will probably be distributed equally among members of the community, it may not be enjoyable but you can't win them all, this is a free society, not a utopia.

There are no laws in a free society but obviously there is a line between what is socially acceptable and what isn't, obviously rapists, murderers and paedos and the like, will probably have to be treated with coercion but that will be nothing as compared to the great damage that such people cause to individuals, families and communities.

The general line held by most anarchists, is that you can do as you like so long as you do not infringe upon the freedoms of others.

 

[magicSpoons]

Best of luck with your grow though.

Cheers!!!!