Fungus, PH, Nute Burn Ohh MY!!!!

[TokenGrower]

So it's not normal for Fox farm straight out of the bag to have a run off of 5.0.....hmm that sucks. Also in order to flush do I have to run water 3x the size of the pot. Now that they are in 5 gallon pots does that mean I need to flush with 15 gallons of water?

I'm lost. I figured only the small one gallon portion that got transplanted could possibly have an acidic run off...but having another four gallons of brand new soil in there. Figured it would help balance things out.

So what is my target run off?

 

[laserbrn]

I wouldn't necessarily flush at this point. You just transplanted into new soil? The FFOF soil does often run a lower PH, but that's why people try to get the soil mixture to where it's manageable. For instance with FFOF I always add dolomite lime to raise the ph and make it more alkaline. That mixed with perlite and vermiculite makes a great soil mixture.

Anyway, back on the point, did you just transplant to new larger containers?

Are you feeding any nutrients besides what's in the FFOF? The nutrients that you add lower the ph of the water. If you are giving too much nutrients the plants aren't taking them up as quickly as they are drinking the water. What's left is a higher concentration of nutrients and salts in the soil that cause the ph to stay very low.

You should be watering with plain water every other watering or feed-feed-water-water whatever the case may be to try to avoid this problem.

Let me know if it's a brand new transplant and I'll decide if I'm for flushing. Might not be necessary and can sometimes make things worse.

 

[KP2]

add cal/mag according to label. this will fix your calcium deficiency, and prevent it if you use it in addition to your regular nutrient schedule. cal/mag is great stuff, from beginning to harvest.

 

[laserbrn]

add cal/mag according to label. this will fix your calcium deficiency, and prevent it if you use it in addition to your regular nutrient schedule. cal/mag is great stuff, from beginning to harvest.

While I agree with foliar feeding right now, I woudn't necessarily go with Cal Mag exclusively.

I believe the right move here is going to be to just water with plain PH Adjusted water (try 7.0) for the next 2 or 3 feedings without any nutrients. Some would choose to foliar feed Cal/Mag, but I don't believe you have a Cal/Mag deficiency, but a PH lockout. Get your ph up a bit and the problems will resolve themselves. The concentrations are built up in your soil and need to be cleaned out a bit.

Even if you JUST transplanted to larger FFOF soil containers, I would still water with water only for at least a week, it's got lots of nutrients in it too.

 

[TokenGrower]

I wouldn't necessarily flush at this point. You just transplanted into new soil? The FFOF soil does often run a lower PH, but that's why people try to get the soil mixture to where it's manageable. For instance with FFOF I always add dolomite lime to raise the ph and make it more alkaline. That mixed with perlite and vermiculite makes a great soil mixture.

Anyway, back on the point, did you just transplant to new larger containers?

Are you feeding any nutrients besides what's in the FFOF? The nutrients that you add lower the ph of the water. If you are giving too much nutrients the plants aren't taking them up as quickly as they are drinking the water. What's left is a higher concentration of nutrients and salts in the soil that cause the ph to stay very low.

You should be watering with plain water every other watering or feed-feed-water-water whatever the case may be to try to avoid this problem.

Let me know if it's a brand new transplant and I'll decide if I'm for flushing. Might not be necessary and can sometimes make things worse.

Yep. Plants are about 7 weeks old from seed in the original pictures in the beginning of the post. In those pictures they were in 1.5 gallon pots. Pics taken 3 days ago. As of last night they are now in 5 gallon pots....ran about 2 gallons of distilled water through them and the run off was about a 5...maybe a little higher.

I have them on a fox farm nutrient schedule I got form the hydro store guy. So right now it's 2 tsp of grow big and 2 Tbl of big bloom.( actually I lied). That's what they were on last week and will go back to in a week. Wanted to flush with water for a week. I was told it helps flush out nitrogen and promote good roots in clones.

I want to keep them vegging for a while until I my clones have taken. Hell I'm thinking of getting an EZ cloner this week...but damn it's pricey.

 

[laserbrn]

Yep. Plants are about 7 weeks old from seed in the original pictures in the beginning of the post. In those pictures they were in 1.5 gallon pots. Pics taken 3 days ago. As of last night they are now in 5 gallon pots....ran about 2 gallons of distilled water through them and the run off was about a 5...maybe a little higher.

I have them on a fox farm nutrient schedule I got form the hydro store guy. So right now it's 2 tsp of grow big and 2 Tbl of big bloom.( actually I lied). That's what they were on last week and will go back to in a week. Wanted to flush with water for a week. I was told it helps flush out nitrogen and promote good roots in clones.

I want to keep them vegging for a while until I my clones have taken. Hell I'm thinking of getting an EZ cloner this week...but damn it's pricey.

Alright, if they are still in veg than I would do as you plan. Just water for a week, but get the ph of the water you are watering with up to at least 7.0 for a couple of waterings, then reread the runoff. Throughout the week the ph should come up more and more and the problem should resolve. If the problem gets worse, mix your nute solution VERY diluted and foliar feed to relieve the stress. Might want to put a little superthrive in your foliar feed as well.

These plants are going to be just fine though.

 

[TokenGrower]

add cal/mag according to label. this will fix your calcium deficiency, and prevent it if you use it in addition to your regular nutrient schedule. cal/mag is great stuff, from beginning to harvest.

What will cal/mag do? And.... does the fox farm nutes already provide this? I guess what I'm asking is will I throw things off if I add the cal/mag to my feeding schedule.

This is my second set of girls I've vegged. My first ones went pretty smooth. They are flowering now. But one is dropping fan leaves. They were bag seed. These new girls are Jock Horror from Nirvana.

My Flowering Bag Seed Girls. Let me know what you think

 

[laserbrn]

Cal/Mag adds Calcium and Magnesium. Quite often people use water such as RO water and the Calcium is often removed.

The Fox Farms nutrients can sometimes show the need for Cal/Mag. I've found that it doesn't usually hurt to foliar feed Cal/Mag and some swear by it.

I don't add it to my reservoir unless I've determined there is a Cal/Mag deficiency. The only way to determine this is to rule out lockouts and other potential problems as USUALLY with non-RO water I don't get this problem.

I've had some strains where this did just happen and I had to foliar feed with Cal/Mag through veg. They were just fine on Bloom nutes, but the veg nutes weren't cutting it for them.

 

[nepali grizzly]

i agree that it looks like calcium/mg deficiency but i'm not 100% sure. i'm interested in learning more about the conditions of your room. like humidity, temp, air intake and exhaust.

 

[dbo24242]

looks to me like the problem was already corrected... I have a leaf or 2 that have the same appearance for no apparent reason. res is fine, 5 other plants on the same res are fine.

 

[TokenGrower]

i agree that it looks like calcium/mg deficiency but i'm not 100% sure. i'm interested in learning more about the conditions of your room. like humidity, temp, air intake and exhaust.

My setup? Here goes. Veg room. Seen in pics below. I am using a SunNut XXL and split it in two. So it's like 4.5x4.5x7 for each veg and flower chamber. The veg room stays between 75-80 degrees. RH is between 50-70. I have them on 4, 4' T5's and some cfl's on the bottom. Not sure if the cfl's are doing much. I have a small green fan the ocilates and moves the air around It is mounted in the front of the tent and points down at the plants. I use FFOF for soil and Fox Farm nutrients. I feed every day..with distilled water and nutrients. Flush on Sunday with just distilled water.

The flowering room has a can-fan air cooling a sealed 1000 hps and vents into the attic. Another Can-fan with a Carbon Filter to scrub the room. And one more to bring in air from a portable AC and then a dehumififier in the tent. Temps stay between 76-80. RH is anywhere from 50-55...somtimes hits 60. It's hard to control when I'm in a garage. Plan on putting up a wall and closing the garage in. I also have one of those large white square fans moving air around in there. Feed every night with nutes and flush on sunday.

Pics

Problem

shot of veg room

 

[nepali grizzly]

sounds like a really good setup man. reason i asked was cause i'm seeing some of these signs on a couple of mine. kinda trying to trouble-shoot it a bit. i was a bit worried about fungus but nope it all sounds clean. tough problem to solve but i'm gunna treat mine as a cal/mg def and hopefully it gets fixed. keep us informed. nice plants.

 

[TokenGrower]

sounds like a really good setup man. reason i asked was cause i'm seeing some of these signs on a couple of mine. kinda trying to trouble-shoot it a bit. i was a bit worried about fungus but nope it all sounds clean. tough problem to solve but i'm gunna treat mine as a cal/mg def and hopefully it gets fixed. keep us informed. nice plants.

Thanks man.

Now that I've been paying attention and trying to solve the issue I really think it's a PH problem. I'm going to spend the next few days trying to correct it with straight water before starting up the nutrients again.

Funny thing is, this looks like a foilar feeding burn or ozone burn. But I do not use and have never used either.

 

[laserbrn]

It looks to me JUST like an MG deficiency. It can show in many ways, but this one is pretty common. It's usually caused by the PH lockout and not by unavailability of the nutrient. At least the few times I've seen this start happening. Always in soil, and always when the ph gets too low.

 

[TokenGrower]

It looks to me JUST like an MG deficiency. It can show in many ways, but this one is pretty common. It's usually caused by the PH lockout and not by unavailability of the nutrient. At least the few times I've seen this start happening. Always in soil, and always when the ph gets too low.

I think your right. Have a bottom leaf starting to show the classic signs of MG def. Now...what should my run off be using straight fox farm soil. What do I need to get it up to?

 

[laserbrn]

I think your right. Have a bottom leaf starting to show the classic signs of MG def. Now...what should my run off be using straight fox farm soil. What do I need to get it up to?

6.5 is a good spot. As long as I've kept it at 6.5ish I haven't had problems.

 

[TokenGrower]

6.5 is a good spot. As long as I've kept it at 6.5ish I haven't had problems.

Hey laserbrn, Do you feed nutrients with every feeding or every other. I did my first veg with every feeding and didn't have that many issues. I was just wandering if it's over kill and maybe might also help with keeping the soil ph up.

With this current grow I was also feeding with every watering.

 

[laserbrn]

To be honest, I switched to hydro awhile ago (4 or 5 grows ago) and I haven't looked back. But when I grew in soil for my first grows I fed about every 3 or 4 waterings. I've really only ever seen problems when people don't water with enough plain water. But it's really a matter of whether or not you are overall giving too much nutrient solution.

I learned a lot by switching to hydro and seeing how it really works. At different stages of the plants life they will take up different amounts of different nutrients AND they will take up varying amounts of water.

Say for instance I put 20 gallons in the reservoir and I get it to a concentration of 1000ppm. The first week my water goes down by 5 gallons and my ppm stays the same at 1000ppm. That means the plants took up the same amount of water as nutrients and my nutrient solution is at a good level.

What I still don't know is WHAT they took up. Could've been a shit ton of nitrogen and less of say phosphorous. So I add water and nutes to my res and I move on for another week. Well this next week I've lost 10 gallons of water and my PPM is at 1300ppm. Well the plants DRANK this week, but didn't take up as many nutrients so I now have a stronger concentration that I wanted. So I add plain water to get it back to 1000ppm.

Well in soil you don't get this information and the soil doesn't tell you what's in it anymore. So on weeks when your plants drank a lot, but didn't take up nutrients as much you added the same amount of nutes as weeks where they took up a lot of nutes, but didn't drink as much.

I don't know if all of this makes sense or if it's just delusional ramblings at this point, but that's the reason in soil that I like to feed-water-water-feed-water-water-feed. Because buildups of nutrients are a bitch and cause PH problems as well as lockouts of nutrients and all sorts of problems that hard to track down.

By giving the water-water between feedings it helps to keep those a little more consistant. If they look underfed I will just make the feed a little stronger.

To each their own, but this is the way that makes sense to me.

 

[TokenGrower]

To be honest, I switched to hydro awhile ago (4 or 5 grows ago) and I haven't looked back. But when I grew in soil for my first grows I fed about every 3 or 4 waterings. I've really only ever seen problems when people don't water with enough plain water. But it's really a matter of whether or not you are overall giving too much nutrient solution.

I learned a lot by switching to hydro and seeing how it really works. At different stages of the plants life they will take up different amounts of different nutrients AND they will take up varying amounts of water.

Say for instance I put 20 gallons in the reservoir and I get it to a concentration of 1000ppm. The first week my water goes down by 5 gallons and my ppm stays the same at 1000ppm. That means the plants took up the same amount of water as nutrients and my nutrient solution is at a good level.

What I still don't know is WHAT they took up. Could've been a shit ton of nitrogen and less of say phosphorous. So I add water and nutes to my res and I move on for another week. Well this next week I've lost 10 gallons of water and my PPM is at 1300ppm. Well the plants DRANK this week, but didn't take up as many nutrients so I now have a stronger concentration that I wanted. So I add plain water to get it back to 1000ppm.

Well in soil you don't get this information and the soil doesn't tell you what's in it anymore. So on weeks when your plants drank a lot, but didn't take up nutrients as much you added the same amount of nutes as weeks where they took up a lot of nutes, but didn't drink as much.

I don't know if all of this makes sense or if it's just delusional ramblings at this point, but that's the reason in soil that I like to feed-water-water-feed-water-water-feed. Because buildups of nutrients are a bitch and cause PH problems as well as lockouts of nutrients and all sorts of problems that hard to track down.

By giving the water-water between feedings it helps to keep those a little more consistant. If they look underfed I will just make the feed a little stronger.

To each their own, but this is the way that makes sense to me.

Wow. thanks. No it totally makes sense. I guess I was trying to get some steroid'ed up looking plants. I think I need to back off on the nutrients from now on.
I too am working up to hyrdo. Figure I would grow for a year or so in soil and then try and switch over.
Was it difficult at first when you made the switch? Or were you pretty prepared?

 

[laserbrn]

Wow. thanks. No it totally makes sense. I guess I was trying to get some steroid'ed up looking plants. I think I need to back off on the nutrients from now on.
I too am working up to hyrdo. Figure I would grow for a year or so in soil and then try and switch over.
Was it difficult at first when you made the switch? Or were you pretty prepared?

It's not really more difficult. It's annoying in the beginning as you can make about 1000 mistakes that cause huge problems or death, but once you get your system down it's pretty easy.

Any change to the system just requires a little monitoring and then figure out what works best.

If you want bigger buds you need bigger lights. You have to remember that adding nutrients is not the way to "boost" your plants. Your plants will pretty much do what they can do under your lights. Your yields will stay pretty similar no matter what nutes you use. You might see a small increase with a new product, but the downside of heavy feeding is slow growth and loss of yield (great loss) due to overfeeding, burning and overall stress.

Keep it as simple as you can and the plants will thank you.