K
Keenly
Guest
of course not man
in a democracy (slavery) 51% of the poeple control 49%
in a republic
99% cant take away the rights of 1%
republic ALL The way
Why is everyone so afraid of the word Socialism?
- Thread starter TheDankness
- Start date
in a democracy (slavery) 51% of the poeple control 49%
in a republic
99% cant take away the rights of 1%
republic ALL The way
A public/government health care program will never work here. I don't know why so many people are afraid of it, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. The system we have now is designed to make money off the sick. Hospitals make more money with more sick people. And insurance companies make more by fighting to not cover anything. Insurrance companies have more lawyers then doctors working for them. And the cost keep climbing. I don't think anyone can argue with that. Something has to be done. I don't care who does it. More and more companys are getting craper insurrance programs that require higher deductibles. Deductibles are the worst. I have to pay 20% of everthing. And it adds up. And my pay keeps getting cut due to the economy. I'm a registered republican, and I am pretty upset with my party. No one is offering a differnt solution to the problem, just bitching about the idea of fixing it. I only see one man who wants to solve the problem, and thats Obama.
I'm not a big supporter of big government, because like everyone else, I don't trust them. Maybe I should say I don't trust their greed. I guess I'm just like everyone else, wanting to bitch about the problem, but not offer a solution.
I'm not a big supporter of big government, because like everyone else, I don't trust them. Maybe I should say I don't trust their greed. I guess I'm just like everyone else, wanting to bitch about the problem, but not offer a solution.
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
How much do you pay in taxes?
If your taxes were cut or if you were given credits (dollar per dollar reduction in taxes to reimburse you for copays and co-insurance) would that resolve your problems with the current system?
If you were allowed to choose specifically what your insurance covered (and did not cover) would that help you, by allowing you to choose a plan that best suited your particular needs?
If the standard deduction was doubled, to help offset the cost of medical would that help you? (With corresponding increases in the basic deductible for each dependent)
The solution being proposed by Obama does not resolve the issue, it just moves the problem from corporations benefiting to a monopoly benefiting. The government is going to make money off of denying the sick care, and providing them "care."
This solution is not a true solution, it just monopolizes the industry and reduces freedoms.
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
Yes, if it was called fluffy-bunnyism I'd still have problems with the ideology.
GrowTech
stays relevant.
Bada bing! Well said.
I have not seen the democrats health care policy. I've just heard nothing but the but the issues of cost, which are understandable. Nor have I seen any republican plan either. This is a personel issue with me. I have a brother who broke his back from the neck down. It was not at work. He was sleep walking at night and fell down his stairs. He was in the hospital for 4 months. The good news is he can walk again, has to use crutches most of the time and a wheel chair just sometimes. He has about $40,000 in hospital bills and can't work doing what he used to. Nor can he get any health insurrance because of his pre-existing condition. He used to be a carpenter, and a very good one. He did just beatiful trim work. Worked hard all his life, didn't live beyond his means, but wasn't a wealthy man either. Luckily, he was a good saver. Had enough in the bank to help out while he was waiting for his social security to kick in. The good news he is availible for government grants to help him get retrained for a office job. He's very computer illiterate. My next family member is my mom who just can't work anymore. She has arthirus very bad. She worked in a bakery at a grocery store for 20 years, same store. On her feet all day. She turned 62 last year and decided to retire. Again, she was a BIG saver. Lived with in her means her whole life. She now has to pay $600 a month for her own insurrance until she can get on medicare. She will be fine, I just don't like seeing her living so tightly, and worry about what her bills will be if something serious bad happens to her.
Thats all I'm saying. I have alot of friends being dragged down by health bills. And people getting rich off it. It just does not sit right with. Call me a bleeding heart liberal, I just can't stand to see good hard working americans drowning in hospital/doctors bills.
Does anyone have a link to the "Obama" plan? Not a link to a news agency website. I think they all have their own agenda. But thats another time.
Sorry, never answered your question. I guess I would like small buisnesses get a larger tax cut for the amount they pay for insurrance and what type of insurrance. Don't give the tax cut to the people, they will spend it on ipods, big screen tv's an internet porn.
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
That is their right, who are you to dictate to them how they must spend the money that they earn?
But yes, I see the flipside of your arguments, but what about you, what is preventing you from helping your family?
If you are truly a bleeding heart liberal why are you not sacrificing your own income to help them? Isn't that what Obama wants us to do?
Or perhaps you just have compassion, which is a virtue, even I feel bad for the people that have bad things happen to them, but I can not help them, just as I can not help myself, the tax man has taken any free money I would have had, and consumed the vast majority of it for his own benefit while giving mere crumbs to everyone else.
Government says it will be there for you, but I could use a hand now, but the most I will get is a tax deduction, which does nothing to help me when I need help.
I'm in the middle of paying off $8K in dental bills, (actually I'm almost done, I'll owe $2,000 after this monday)
I would be better off with out the federal government taxing me, because then I would have no problem paying the dentists. My personal budget is tight (it has some flex, but not as much as I want) but it is temporary. I raided my savings to pay the dental bills, and I will go right back to saving as much as I comfortably can after this disruption.
Save during the times of feasting, for the times of famine...
But if government takes our money, how can we save so we can avoid the above situations?
I am sure that your brother paid his taxes (at least I hope he did, otherwise my compassion is wasted) and believed it was his duty to do so. Now that he needs help, where is the government?
More importantly, is my original question, where is his family?
Why aren't they able to help?
I'm not dictating who spends what. I work for a small ma and pop company. My employers are very nice to me, and it was my bosses wish for a larger tax cut on the type of insurrance they provide and if they provide it. It would offset their costs alot. Another thing my boss is starting to see is more and more insurrance wanting to know what type of conditions the employees have. A guy in our office has a wife that has lupis. A very nasty disease of the joints. Trust me, they have had their own issue with insurrance companies.
To answer your question, we have all helped him with his med bills. But it all adds up. And with no money coming to help with the monthly costs, it just adds up. Who has $40,000 dollars now a days? My brother and I both work in the construction industry. My family is your typical nothern cathlolic family. They are all good, hard working blue collared people who ALL work in the construction industry and have all seen our paychecks get smaller and smaller. And I hate to say this, but I have to think about me and wife as well. I really don't think I'll have a job this winter. I have some money saved. And paying $600 for a cobra plan scared the living shit out me. Maybe I'm being selfish as well. I never though about health insurrance before until mine changed, for the worse.
Again, I'm just another one bitching at the system. There just has to be a better way. It's not like the old days. It cost me $350 for an xray. I have a friend who has cancer. She paid $15,000 for a some kind of special scan. Well, her insurrance paid for it. But still. You have to have health insurrance no a days. It's kinda like you have to or your fucked. Who else has an insurrance system like ours? It just seems like alot of other developed countries have a socialized health care system.
LOL, I'm sorry, I miss read your statment. The ipod thing was more of a joke. I'm just saying that it seems like everyone just spends thier money on junk anymore. $200 dollar shoes and shit. If there is going to be some sort of tax break for health care, it should managed properly so it can go to health care. Mostly everyone gets their health care coverage from a group plan at work anyways.
It's been proven time and time again. When the government gets too powerful, it gets corrupt.
The problem we are dealing with now is that the banks (PRIVATE banks) own the government... They are the ones pushing for socialism and this "New World Order". Our founding fathers would flip a SHIT if they knew what we are putting up with today. The government has given TRILLIONS of dollars to PRIVATE banks. These are scary times to follow. This is like the beginning of Nazi Germany. Economic disaster, depression, people looking for a charismatic leader to tell them "it's ok, WE, the GOVERNMENT will take care of you guys, just give us the power to do so" But you have the realize that the GOVERNMENT is being funded and run by a PRIVATE bank (this is a fact, the FEDERAL RESERVE is just a name, it is PRIVATE, not part of the government like the name falsely implies)... Our founding fathers said it themselves, NEVER let a PRIVATE BANK control the country! It leads to corruption not JUSTICE.
The problem we are dealing with now is that the banks (PRIVATE banks) own the government... They are the ones pushing for socialism and this "New World Order". Our founding fathers would flip a SHIT if they knew what we are putting up with today. The government has given TRILLIONS of dollars to PRIVATE banks. These are scary times to follow. This is like the beginning of Nazi Germany. Economic disaster, depression, people looking for a charismatic leader to tell them "it's ok, WE, the GOVERNMENT will take care of you guys, just give us the power to do so" But you have the realize that the GOVERNMENT is being funded and run by a PRIVATE bank (this is a fact, the FEDERAL RESERVE is just a name, it is PRIVATE, not part of the government like the name falsely implies)... Our founding fathers said it themselves, NEVER let a PRIVATE BANK control the country! It leads to corruption not JUSTICE.
I was listening in on a conversation between two of my freinds. (Yes both my friends)One happens to own the local theater.The other is the manager of the theater.The Manager was gripeing because he works 80 hour weeks.(Theater employees don't get overtime, Don't ask I don't know why)Anyway, The owner said for every employee he has at 8.00 an hour it costs another 2.60 an hour to the government in taxes. So for every three employees he has he could (almost) hire a 4th if they did away with those taxes.We could have spent 5-700 billion on Tax releif for small buisness for 2 years.Instead of handing that money to banksters.But no instead of doing what we know will work we hand over scads of cash.In farsical bailouts.
what... huh?
Active Member
The same reason I fear the word failure.
The result is distasteful.
The result is distasteful.
Something has to be done about health care. 25 years ago I made the same money as a registered nurse friend of mine. (I'm a service teck) Today I make half as much. There is no logical reason for this except that ppl "need" her more than me. Does that mean she deserves to double her salary compared to mine? I'm facing a 30% increase this year in my heath care premiums. Why? Because they can. Because when I get sick I need help to get better. I understand why some ppl get paid better for thier professions, than others, in a capitalistic system. But when it comes to basic needs of the ppl, like getting better when sick, there has to be better control over costs. There has to be a cross bred system that can do both. We as a nation just haven't quite got to that point yet. were getting there fast. all people willl be effected by costly health care soomer of later. when more are, there will be riots in the streets.
The problem is that with the bills that are being pushed around lately, the government will decide who gets what. Starting with THEM having a DIFFERENT health care than US, the citizens! Why should the government be treated differently? BULLSHIT!
Also, Imagine going to the doctor because you are 60 years old and have cataracts (simple procedure to clear up your eyesight), and the government telling you, sorry, you're not worth the cost/benefit assessment because you are too old. Sorry that you worked your whole life and payed taxes to us for the FALSE promise that we would take care of you. Sorry!
People have forgotten what the United States of America fucking stands for!!! We were the nation created to COUNTER strong governments because we KNEW that they would get corrupted like it did in England... And what are we doing now? Being little bitches and giving the government all the power hoping that they'll take care of us in the end. Guess what happens in every civilization? We will be the new slaves working for the rich government.
And I agree that health care sucks right now, but I don't see the British or Canadian health care being any better. And by the look of the bill that we are trying to pass in congress, there would be SOOOO many federal agencies required to do ANYTHING that NOTHING would ever get done, and we would be taxed 20 times for wanting to do anything.
I know that things arent great, but the government becoming omnipotent is NOT in the average citizens best interest.
I know that things arent great, but the government becoming omnipotent is NOT in the average citizens best interest.
Everyone keeps saying "something has to be done."
How many people here even think the republicans have a plan?
A plan that makes a damn sight more sence then destroying our current system.
I don't know how costs have gotten so out of control.
It is litterally breaking economic laws prices should be coming down as tech goes up.
I am not sure of the reasons but I will bet you 3-1 says its governments fault.
The simple fact of the matter is government has no, zero, authority to do any of this!
Government does one thing well.
Defend the country.
Protect the people from fraud, theft, abuse and murder.
Thats it, Period.
They have no authority to tell me what doc I see.
What meds I take
What food I eat
Who the hell do they think they are?
Anyone who backs this nonsence is
What Linin called a "useful idiot."
I know you mean well but socialism really?
We just defeated comunism and you want to install it here WTF.
Rant Over.
How many people here even think the republicans have a plan?
A plan that makes a damn sight more sence then destroying our current system.
I don't know how costs have gotten so out of control.
It is litterally breaking economic laws prices should be coming down as tech goes up.
I am not sure of the reasons but I will bet you 3-1 says its governments fault.
The simple fact of the matter is government has no, zero, authority to do any of this!
Government does one thing well.
Defend the country.
Protect the people from fraud, theft, abuse and murder.
Thats it, Period.
They have no authority to tell me what doc I see.
What meds I take
What food I eat
Who the hell do they think they are?
Anyone who backs this nonsence is
What Linin called a "useful idiot."
I know you mean well but socialism really?
We just defeated comunism and you want to install it here WTF.
Rant Over.
I'm not saying socialism is the answer or even close. The fact is, the current system is broken badly. It's not if it needs fixed, but how and when. I don't have a clue how to fix it. But I didn't know shit about growing until someone smarter than me helped me out. We need the same thing with health care. We need several different Ideas, then choose the one that every one has a problem with. Because that's probably the best were going to do. If every one is unhappy with it, it's probably the most fair.