There Is No Devil.

[CrackerJax]

You are rambling without making salient points......

 

[wm2009]

adsdfsd sdf sfdf

 

[CrackerJax]

I am already quite aware of everything you posted....I'm not seeing a direction in your posts tho.... How about finishing up this convo.

Comparing evolution to religion is a joke of the highest order. It only demonstrates the desperation of the church.

 

[pillarize]

The devil has the power of death...as long as there is death...that means hes still in power.

Only one way to escape death and the grip of the devil...all doctrines and science are of the devil of which many say there is none...but yet they do his works.

 

[CrackerJax]

thats just ridiculous.....

 

[fish601]

So if you admit you are not following the Bible.... then what ARE you following? THE book says quite clearly that any deviation from it is FALSE. So?..... you just follow what you are told? From what source?

There is a big difference between having a book with contemporary dates and places in it and a HISTORICAL reference. The book "Gone With The Wind" took place with names and places familiar to us all as well. No one considers it to be a historical reference. Heck, we even actually kNOW who wrote it too!

I am just saying noone is perfect.

And i cant believe you dont understand that page about historical references you seem alot smarter than that

 

[CrackerJax]

Like I said. "Gone with the Wind" had historical references all through it. Does that make it history? Think it through.....the Bible is not a recording of history. It just isn't, and that's where the church went off the tracks...long ago. It has been corrupted ever since.

Everyone talks about the Bible but NO ONE (save some orthodox sects, slightly) follows the Bible. Why? Because it's just plain barbaric! Those were barbaric times and the stories reflect that. Nothing wrong with a little window on tribal behavior, but HARDLY a guide to live by.

I can pick out several fables that surpass the Bibles message without all the dogma and insistence of truth.

 

[fish601]

Yes, and they are all within the laws of physics..... that is not to say that all the answers are in yet, they aren't. That's the WONDERFUL thing about science. But so far, science has a set of laws which are immutable. That's why "miracles" don't occur.

Outrageous claims demand outrageous proof. One of the MANY reasons why Christianity falls on its face.

Miracles.... You know thats why we call him God. God is the Creator of the universe and the master of all of its laws. Who or what do you think set the laws of physics?




.

 

[fish601]

Like I said. "Gone with the Wind" had historical references all through it. Does that make it history? Think it through.....the Bible is not a recording of history. It just isn't, and that's where the church went off the tracks...long ago. It has been corrupted ever since.

Everyone talks about the Bible but NO ONE (save some orthodox sects, slightly) follows the Bible. Why? Because it's just plain barbaric! Those were barbaric times and the stories reflect that. Nothing wrong with a little window on tribal behavior, but HARDLY a guide to live by.

I can pick out several fables that surpass the Bibles message without all the dogma and insistence of truth.

Will you name me a historical document?


Guess i am not clear on what you mean by following the bible.
We all sin the pope, me, you, everyone.

 

[bigtomatofarmer]

You are rambling without making salient points......

Are you talking about yourself here? Because as far as I can tell, you have given NO PROOF to back up any of your claims. You simply run and hide behind an attack at another persons beliefs everytime you are confronted with facts.

Furthermore, you refuse to answer any of Jenni's questions. She easily tore ALL of your arguments into pieces and you continue to refuse to answer any of hers

When you asked for sources outside of the bible, Jenni complied and gave you plenty of people. ALL of whom did exist outside of the bible, All of whom did mention Jesus...
Remeber this post??///
And dont try to tell us its bogus either, there are source references at the end of each statment if you'd like to look it up for yourself

If you dont want to discuss the validity of the bible, with books from the bible, I understand.
From here on out, I will only use secular historical documents.

The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44).

Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” “At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”

Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 1.

The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.

Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves to be immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.



I have more, plenty more. But Im sure youre not planning on reading them.

Also, you foolishly tried to use the scrolls of the essene as a source.... Haha Im still laughing about that one...
Did you even try to google it? If you did you would find that the Essene Monastary believes in Jesus.
here are the top search results when I typed "scrolls of the essene" on google
http://reluctant-messenger.com/essene/index.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/essenes.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/dss.html
All of which claim Jesus.


I also enjoyed it when you said that some scholars discredit Josephus's early writings because it may have been tainted by christian writers.
But even the scholars YOU tried to use as a source give Jesus plausibility as real person.
So even your sources prove Jesus was a real person. Remember this post by Jenni.....

Also, I already know about the scholars who discredit Josephus. Im glad you brought that up.... Here is the story


In book 18 of the Antiquities, 63-64, the text of Josephus as we have it today says:

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed it is lawful to call him a man, for he was a performer of wonderful deeds, a teacher of such men as are happy to accept the truth. He won over many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the leading men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again on the third day, as the prophets of God had foretold these and ten thousand other wonders about him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day.'

Here is the "other" assumption
Some scholars today agree that it has been altered by early Christians seeking to 'improve' it. It seems more likely that Josephus originally wrote something like this:About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, for he was a performer of wonderful deeds, a teacher of such men as are happy to accept the truth. He won over many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. When Pilate, at the suggestion of the leading men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him at the first did not forsake him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day.'




either way, it proves that Jesus infact DID walk this earth


Thank you, again, for helping me prove my point.

My personal favorite is when you try to talk about albert einstein.
To quote Albert Einstein himself....

"There are people who say there is no God, but what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views." - Albert Einstein


Also, more on einstein

We’re all familiar with Einstein’s e=mc2 (energy equals mass times the speed of light squared) equation. However what most people don’t know is that originally Einstein wasn’t solving for “e”, he was solving for “m” so his original equation was m=e/c2 (mass equals energy divided by the speed of light squared). So what, what’s the difference? With the first equation we learn how to get energy out of mass which has led, for example, to the fission of atoms and getting energy (the atomic bomb and nuclear energy). But in the second equation we learn how mass is created by energy and that, for example, the energy generated by the blastoff of the space shuttle adds mass the weight of a flee to the shuttle. (For more authority on this idea listen to Frank Wilczek, Theoretical Physicist and Nobel Laureate at MIT, Sheldon Glashow, Theoretical Physicist and Nobel Laureate at Boston University and Albert himself!).

Einstein uses science to prove there is more to this life than meets the eye. He himself believed in life after death based on scientific facts.

 

[CrackerJax]

Oh then, let's stick to your fav...

The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.

Letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, January 3, 1954 from Albert Einstein

 

[fish601]

I dont know anything about Einstein but i dont think you two disagree about him

you said "He himself believed in life after death based on scientific facts" BUT that doesnt mean he believes in god.
cracker said "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses.."
I dont see a problem with it... my 2 cents

 

[CrackerJax]

I do agree with Einsteins opinion of religion. By 1954, he had lived a life, and I think after much thought, he came to the correct conclusion.

 

[fish601]

I do agree with Einsteins opinion of religion. By 1954, he had lived a life, and I think after much thought, he came to the correct conclusion.

but really who cares what he thought?
he might be right he might be wrong

 

[CrackerJax]

His analysis is spot on. It takes a certain mental toughness to crawl out of the rabbit hole. Indoctrination is a very successful technique, as I'm sure you well know.

 

[fish601]

His analysis is spot on. It takes a certain mental toughness to crawl out of the rabbit hole. Indoctrination is a very successful technique, as I'm sure you well know.

Yes it is
I think naturally people are born not believing in God we are taught evolution and big bang theory in grade school and we have to see past the so called obvious fairy tales and contradictions of the bible and our selfish unwillingness to surrender to something bigger than ourselves and change our lives in such a way that we are no longer living for ourselves but living to please God its a hard thing to do. I am glad God pulled me out of the rabbit hole.

 

[tip top toker]

i'm fully iwth crackerjack on all of what he's saying.

especially in regard to miracles. looking at the "why don't miracles happen now then?" and peoples telling of "you can't know what's going on everywhere" etc, well look guys, the whole world knows when a funny shaped frog is seen ten thousand miles into a remote field. if some peasant suddenly fed ten thousand of his villagers in the desert on a packet of nuts, then proceeded to part the seas, well doesn't matter if it's not where i'm at or focused on, it's gonna be known, hell if jesus "did it" and the world knows, 2000 years on, with todays tech, the world would immediately know when a miracle happens, it would be everywere. and for those that do claim a miracle has happened, well you know the irony, i can guarantee you that the general publiuc will tell you you're a tit and to stop trying to get some twitter attention or whatnot, because we realise these days that it's not possible, due to our advances in science and understanding. they lived in the desesrt, he prolly just blew sand on them told them it was bread crumbs and paid off the guy with the manuscript!

afterall, he couldn't follow even the most simple commandments, the most important as well, so why would he be trusted legit through and through?

 

[CrackerJax]

Nobody really follows the ten commandments anymore. They aren't even original in thought. Christianity brings nothing new to the table. Just remixed myths and platitudes. It's all been done before by other Myths. Myths are what they are according to the church! But not theirs...no no no. Isn't that exactly what the previous myth said about others when it was the religion? It's a carny trick of the highest order and has been going on forever.
What is frightening is how many ppl actually believe the Bible is a true story.....scary.

Can Armageddon happen? You bet. When you get it into mans head that something is supposed to happen, he will make sure it does happen. The religious in the end are going to try and kill everyone....mark my words. Islam, Christianity are both working towards an apocalypse. Yes, Islam has an end game too.....

Both religions are nutty and dangerous.

 

[tip top toker]

nutty and crazy alright, i'll get bloody arrested if i so much as mention the word mohammed in public or whatnot these days. it's a laugh.

i will take the piss out of whoever i want, i don't care if he's your profet, he was a nob, or something to that extent. since everything happened, the muslim world seems to be allowed to burn places to the ground, and it's all ok, because well, we made a joke about their god etc. that's really mad.

i enjoyed the film zeitgiest, and while i have not looked into the validity of any of it's arguments, so i can't say this is how it is, how do christians explain the apparent identical "jesus story" being inscribed onto pyramids and such in eygypt thousands and thousands of years before him. and that at the end of the day he is nothing more than a metaphor for the sun. i watched it ages back, but what was said was pretty damned compelling, i just havn't read into how acurate the film portrays it.

 

[pillarize]

The commandments of men are the morales of man...but the commandments of God must be revealed.