Not a right

[mrmadcow]

Also, by you comparing a car to your health isn't saying much about how much you think of your health...

misdirection.......
are you saying decent food and housing are not as important as healthcare?? didnt think so but that is my way of jumping to an irrational conclusion to make you look bad.
now how are you going to make your healthcare utopia happen without forcing others to pay for it?

Some prefer to keep that soul carrying machine in tip top shape in order to survive longer and healthier and others tend not to, thus acquiring different healthcare problems that might be life threatning. The problem does not lie in the healthcare system,.....But what do I know, I'm just a doctor

well said but are you advocating government intervention on how we take care of ourselves? or we should be responsible for our healthcare because most of our healthcare problems are caused by how we live?
and as a doctor,do you agree that a primary reason healthcare is so expensive is because of government regulations?

 

[PadawanBater]

I just did a little math, here are some numbers I came up with;

The price to cover American health care

15.6 Trillion @ $50,000
7.8 Trillion @ $25,000
1.56 Trillion @ $5,000

Some more numbers;

Total Funding $439.3 Billion (Defense Department)

Operations and maintenance $152.2 Bil.
Military Personnel $110.8 Bil.
Procurement $84.2 Bil.
Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation $73.2 Bil.
Military Construction $12.6 Bil.
Family Housing $4.1 Bil.

(The War on terror, Iraq, Afghanistan are not included)

So I guess a lot of it also has to do with priorities.. Unfortunately, average Americans health doesn't seem to be one...

 

[medicineman]

I just did a little math, here are some numbers I came up with;

The price to cover American health care

15.6 Trillion @ $50,000
7.8 Trillion @ $25,000
1.56 Trillion @ $5,000

Some more numbers;

Total Funding $439.3 Billion (Defense Department)

Operations and maintenance $152.2 Bil.
Military Personnel $110.8 Bil.
Procurement $84.2 Bil.
Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation $73.2 Bil.
Military Construction $12.6 Bil.
Family Housing $4.1 Bil.

(The War on terror, Iraq, Afghanistan are not included)

So I guess a lot of it also has to do with priorities.. Unfortunately, average Americans health doesn't seem to be one...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe your health care figures are for a 10 year projection while your military figures are for a 1 year expense. Extrapolate them out to ten years and you have 43.9 trillion. or more than 3 times the higest projection of health care costs. So it boils down to this: The American people find it more plausabile to fund killing people than saving them. No wonder we are one of the most vile, hated countries on the planet, no wonder those Libyans gave that Lockerbee bomber a heros welcome. Sometimes it may be sensible to look at the USA from others viewpoints to get a better perspective of what is really going on. The USA uses Jingoism or propaganda on its citizens as much or more than the Soviet union ever did. We live on one planet and untill we learn to get along, the most expensive things we will ever fund is our militaries, and that my friends is just plain stupid.

 

[Illegal Smile]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe your health care figures are for a 10 year projection while your military figures are for a 1 year expense. Extrapolate them out to ten years and you have 43.9 trillion. or more than 3 times the higest projection of health care costs. So it boils down to this: The American people find it more plausabile to fund killing people than saving them. No wonder we are one of the most vile, hated countries on the planet, no wonder those Libyans gave that Lockerbee bomber a heros welcome. Sometimes it may be sensible to look at the USA from others viewpoints to get a better perspective of what is really going on. The USA uses Jingoism or propaganda on its citizens as much or more than the Soviet union ever did. We live on one planet and untill we learn to get along, the most expensive things we will ever fund is our militaries, and that my friends is just plain stupid.

It would be 4.39 trillion not 43.9. A trillion is a thousand billion not a hundred billion. So funding healthcare would still be more.

 

[Wavels]

We live on one planet and untill we learn to get along, the most expensive things we will ever fund is our militaries, and that my friends is just plain stupid.

Hi Med,
IMHO, health care is NOT a right.

However it is good to see you here at RIU, it has been a while since I have disagreed with you.

Shockingly I find myself in concurrence with the quote excerpted from your post.

I suspect I would disagree with you regarding the means by which to correct this lamentable situation!

Your old Pal,
Wavels

 

[destros beard]

misdirection.......
are you saying decent food and housing are not as important as healthcare?? didnt think so but that is my way of jumping to an irrational conclusion to make you look bad.
now how are you going to make your healthcare utopia happen without forcing others to pay for it?

well said but are you advocating government intervention on how we take care of ourselves? or we should be responsible for our healthcare because most of our healthcare problems are caused by how we live?
and as a doctor,do you agree that a primary reason healthcare is so expensive is because of government regulations?

I want the richest 1% to pay for it all. They got their wealth from exploiting the planet and workers anyway.

 

[ink the world]

While your love for your child is admirable, taking from another or harming somebody who has never harmed you is not exactly setting the best example is it?

In the case we are debating my child is in need of urgent care. I think he would be more worried about living than any "example" that I set for him.
And to be honest, yeah I care more about him and his brother than some yuppie douchebag in a Volvo and McMansion.

I have to wonder how many people that feel it ISNT a right do not have insurance. Id bet that number would be VERY low.

 

[jrh72582]

I want the richest 1% to pay for it all. They got their wealth from exploiting the planet and workers anyway.

Now this idea, I like . When wealth is attained through murder, exploitation, and conspiracy, recourse is way overdue! Let's take it back and use it for the common good as reciprocation for what was stolen from the commoners.

 

[Woomeister]

I know the response im likely to get, but what the hell here goes. I'm English and as you know the NHS has been around for a while and not only is it the biggest single employer in the world but it is a safeguard against poor people going without healthcare. The NHS is far from perfect and far from Socialism as Americans see it. If I am in a car accident tommorrow, and need to be, I will be flown to a hospital and treated by the same Doctors that also run private practices (dispelling the myth that private is better) and will get all the drugs, rehab etc I need for free. My mother in law was diagnosed with cancer during a routine check up last year and was given a choice of treatments, drugs and hospital she wanted to go to within 3 days. My father has diabetes and gets insulin for free. I am off to the dentist next week, for free. To get this level of care in the US what would you have to pay per annum in insurance premiums?

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Medical insurance is not a right and it is definitely not free.

Nor is it an issue for the federal government. The states are each responsible to make such decisions. See the 10th Amendment.

No amount of hopey-changey, vote-buying, rhetoric from the administration will change that.

Why does the amount spent on prisons rival that spent on higher education in many if not most states? Perhaps too many people are being incarcerated because we have too many laws. There are laws meant to protect and laws meant to oppress. Re-legalize cannabis!

I agree that our military should be trimmed back. Let Europe take full responsibility for funding and operating NATO so they may worry over their own defense. However, I stress that the U.S. must maintain a robust national defense. Any savings should go right back to the pockets of the taxpayers.

Any other option is "wee weed up."

 

[thechoroid]

misdirection.......
are you saying decent food and housing are not as important as healthcare?? didnt think so but that is my way of jumping to an irrational conclusion to make you look bad.
now how are you going to make your healthcare utopia happen without forcing others to pay for it?

well said but are you advocating government intervention on how we take care of ourselves? or we should be responsible for our healthcare because most of our healthcare problems are caused by how we live?
and as a doctor,do you agree that a primary reason healthcare is so expensive is because of government regulations?

Sorru it took me so long to get back to this discussion, I was busy truthfuly attending to patients in a country where doctors of their own or similar nationality aren't as well appreciated financially as europeans and americans. Which is even quite weird when you come to think of it. I mean what would a european or an american getting a load of dough care for treating a patient nationality of which he despises and considers underdevelopped through a translator that might not even have a medical degree to interpret to the doctor what this patient is complaining of. What do you think of that when it comes to healthcare. You say, you have better tuition and developing of doctors? nope! due to all the legal formalities that you have in your system, medical students rarely get any practice. Therefore and even though they might be theoretically advanced due to technology, they're very weak on the practical side. I got my degree in Russia, where the life of an individual is not that important when it comes to achieving the treatment of the next patient (old soviet approach) and believe me I got all the practice I needed but nevertheless I remain underqualified when compared to a european or american doctor. Where's the truth in that?

 

[thechoroid]

I know the response im likely to get, but what the hell here goes. I'm English and as you know the NHS has been around for a while and not only is it the biggest single employer in the world but it is a safeguard against poor people going without healthcare. The NHS is far from perfect and far from Socialism as Americans see it. If I am in a car accident tommorrow, and need to be, I will be flown to a hospital and treated by the same Doctors that also run private practices (dispelling the myth that private is better) and will get all the drugs, rehab etc I need for free. My mother in law was diagnosed with cancer during a routine check up last year and was given a choice of treatments, drugs and hospital she wanted to go to within 3 days. My father has diabetes and gets insulin for free. I am off to the dentist next week, for free. To get this level of care in the US what would you have to pay per annum in insurance premiums?

Sorry to hear about your mother in law, I'd reccomend you start her on marijuana immediately and start googling the planet for the new treatments for cancer. The last I read was that an egyptian doctor found a cure for it and an american company bought the right from him. Your father has diabetes and is on insulin although they started him on pills but he just couldn't control his diet and that 's what lead him to the state he is in (again about how you should take care of your body during your lifespan). I really wish you health.

 

[Woomeister]

My mother in law was given the all clear after chemo and radio about 4 months ago thanks. My fathers diabetes wasnt caused by diet and he wasnt ever on pills for it. Thanks for the concern though. Can you answer my Q. about premiums though?

 

[thechoroid]

My mother in law was given the all clear after chemo and radio about 4 months ago thanks. My fathers diabetes wasnt caused by diet and he wasnt ever on pills for it. Thanks for the concern though. Can you answer my Q. about premiums though?

then the question is whether she did have cancer at all, but very glad she's out in the clear. Did your dad have type I diabetes from the beginning? I hope he's doing his eye check ups?
premiums?

 

[Woomeister]

then the question is whether she did have cancer at all, but very glad she's out in the clear. Did your dad have type I diabetes from the beginning? I hope he's doing his eye check ups?
premiums?

You are starting to make me wonder about your agenda... My mother in law's biopsy was cancerous and she had a part of the breast removed, which was a tumour. My father suffered from a sever pancreas injury which lead directly to type 1. He gets all the checks he needs-for free! My premium Q.?

 

[thechoroid]

You are starting to make me wonder about your agenda... My mother in law's biopsy was cancerous and she had a part of the breast removed, which was a tumour. My father suffered from a sever pancreas injury which lead directly to type 1. He gets all the checks he needs-for free! My premium Q.?

Then thank GOD that they diagnosed it and treated it at such an early stage, which underlines that your NHS is fulfilling a great job. Your father's severe injury to the pancreas explains everything, was just jumping into conclusions not knowing the history. What do you expect from an eye specialist Fortunately I can't answer your premium Q. because I don't live in the states

 

[mrmadcow]

My premium Q.?

about $800 a month but your system is not "free" as it is paid for by higher taxes.personally,i would rather pay for a policy that I can cancel if needed that have it come out of my paycheck w/out a choice. I was able to save enough to save my house by going w/out insurance for 3 months after a setback. try telling the government you want to cancel your taxes because of a hardship & you need money to catch up on your morgage.

 

[jrh72582]

I know the response im likely to get, but what the hell here goes. I'm English and as you know the NHS has been around for a while and not only is it the biggest single employer in the world but it is a safeguard against poor people going without healthcare. The NHS is far from perfect and far from Socialism as Americans see it. If I am in a car accident tommorrow, and need to be, I will be flown to a hospital and treated by the same Doctors that also run private practices (dispelling the myth that private is better) and will get all the drugs, rehab etc I need for free. My mother in law was diagnosed with cancer during a routine check up last year and was given a choice of treatments, drugs and hospital she wanted to go to within 3 days. My father has diabetes and gets insulin for free. I am off to the dentist next week, for free. To get this level of care in the US what would you have to pay per annum in insurance premiums?

Great Post - +rep. We need more people with actual experience concerning national healthcare to dispel all the rumors, myths, and lies spread by those who for some reason fear a system that provides access to something 60 million people don't have. Arguing against compassion is a difficult argument to make, so many resort to imagination. Thank you for removing the illusion.

 

[Woomeister]

about $800 a month but your system is not "free" as it is paid for by higher taxes.personally,i would rather pay for a policy that I can cancel if needed that have it come out of my paycheck w/out a choice. I was able to save enough to save my house by going w/out insurance for 3 months after a setback. try telling the government you want to cancel your taxes because of a hardship & you need money to catch up on your morgage.

I dislike being told how my country works. The national health service is piad for by national insurance contributions not by higher taxes. low income families get this money back through a system called tax credits so do not pay for their health care. Where would you have been if during those 3 months you had an accident?????? £2.50 a week is nothing to pay if you want healthcare when you need it.

 

[mrmadcow]

...You say, you have better tuition and developing of doctors? nope! due to all the legal formalities that you have in your system, medical students rarely get any practice. ..

exactly my point. government red tape is 1 of the biggest problem w/ health care in the US

I want the richest 1% to pay for it all. They got their wealth from exploiting the planet and workers anyway.

spoken like a true socialist.do you think that the wealthy will really pay it or will they pass it on as another cost of doing business?add a 25% tax to gas corperations (to pay for healthcare)and see what happens to the cost of gas
considering the wealthiest 1% pay most of the taxes,maybe the poorest should start picking up their fair share of the tab?