What Michael Moor Forgot to Tell You ...

ViRedd

New Member
What Michael Moore Forgot to Tell You

By Richard E. Ralston

August 28, 2007


Michael Moore's comedy-drama Sicko presented a great deal of misinformation—too much to summarize in a short column. Besides, if anyone in the audience really believed that all Cubans receive superb health care when Mr. Moore's cameras are not running, there is not much I can say to help them. However, those who saw the film should at least be aware of some of the information that was left out.

After bemoaning the amount of money that Americans spend on health care, Mr. Moore castigated the "greed" of an insurance company for not providing routine and immediate approval of a medical procedure in the 1980s that might have saved a patient's life at a cost of half a million dollars. He did not mention whether there should be an upper limit on any procedure, no matter how experimental or expensive, and what that would do to health care costs. $1 million? $10 million? That would surely provide incentives for a lot of medical experiments.

When Mr. Moore described Health Maintenance Organizations (HMOs) as the creation of a dark and evil conspiracy by Richard Nixon, for some reason he forgot to mention that Nixon's enthusiastic partner in pushing the HMO Act of 1973 through a Democratic-controlled Congress was Senator Edward Kennedy. He also forgot to mention that the Clinton Administration's health care proposals in 1994 would have forced most Americans into HMOs.

Longer lifespans in Canada were cited as proof that Canada has a superior health care system. Mr. Moore forgot to mention how many Canadians die in traffic accidents, are shot by criminals, are killed in combat, are addicted to illegal drugs, have diseases primarily afflicting racial minorities, or are obese, compared with Americans. He also forgot to establish whether Canadians started living longer only after they nationalized their health care system, or whether they always lived longer than Americans. He did not mention that if they do live two years longer, they need to—because that is how long they often have to wait for surgery.

When Mr. Moore filmed two of his relatives buying health insurance in fear before they traveled to America, he forgot to mention that many Canadians travel to America for the express purpose of spending their own money for more than $1 billion in American health care each year.

Mr. Moore interviewed a physician in the British National Health Service (NHS) about how wonderful free health care is in Britain, and how satisfied the physicians are in the NHS. He forgot to mention that more than one third of physicians working for the NHS buy private insurance so they don't have to rely on the "free" care, and that more than 6 million British citizens also buy private insurance for the same reason. He did not mention that this year the health minister admitted that one in eight British patients still wait for more than a year for treatment. He neglected to say that Britain has had to import more than 20,000 physicians in the last three years—chiefly from Middle Eastern and Asian countries—because so few of the British want to enter or stay in the profession after sixty years of experience with the NHS.

While praising the superiority of French medical care and the fact that French doctors make house calls—almost as an aside to praising the superiority of every element of French society compared with America's—Mr. Moore forgot to mention that 13,000 Frenchmen died of heat prostration and dehydration during a heat wave in the summer of 2003, when most French physicians were on summer vacation and did not show up in emergency rooms, let alone make house calls.

Michael Moore forgot to mention why he jammed seriously ill patients into a small boat to take them to Cuba, in order to film a stunt attempting to prove the superiority of Cuban health care-when, for much less money, he could have written them a check for care in America. It must have been compassion.

Most importantly, when Mr. Moore mentioned that "every industrial country" except the United States has adopted medical socialism, he did not mention why that means that we should. Many of those countries still have monarchies. Should the United States? Many of those countries have established state religions. Should the United States? Many of those countries have long waiting lists and severe rationing of health care. Should the United States?

Michael Moore forgot to mention what the United States does have that other countries do not: A Declaration of Independence. A Constitution. A Bill of Rights. The concepts of individual rights, personal choice, free markets, private investment that develops most of the world's new medications, and the benefit of a private relationship between physicians and their patients without third-party interference.

In his hymn to every other nation's superiority to America—in proportion to their commitment to collectivism—Michael Moore forgot to mention any American values at all.

Richard E. Ralston is Executive Director of Americans for Free Choice in Medicine.
 

silk

Well-Known Member
I agree with OpenDNS

I'm personally am a huge Moore fan. He's fun, he's intellectual, he's biased. He almost always gives just enough facts to support his arguments. I don't see the fault in that. It's no different of an approach than the people he is responding to, or your average conversation.

The real place to focus concern on is the legislators, the policy makers and leaders of countries that make these decisions. Focusing on Moore is just a distraction. His role is to raise awareness.
 

medicineman

New Member
Just for referance purposes, when VI posts an article, it pays to find out who the author is. This right wing Ann Rand director is one: Richard E. Ralston
Specialties: Ayn Rand's life, Objectivism (General), Projects of the Ayn Rand Institute, Volunteerism, Foreign Policy, Journalism and Media
After serving seven years in the U.S. Army, Mr. Ralston completed an M.A. in International Relations at the University of Southern California in 1977. He then began a career in newspaper publishing and direct marketing. He has been the circulation director and publisher of The Christian Science Monitor, a radio producer, a national television news business manager, and a book publisher. As an independent direct marketing consultant, his clients included IBM, British Airways, CNN, and the Los Angeles Times. His book Communism: Its Rise and Fall in the 20th Century was published in 1991. He edited the book Why Businessmen Need Philosophy in 1999, and was the revision editor of two books by Ayn Rand in 2005: Three Plays and The Early Ayn Rand. He is the Publishing Manager of the Ayn Rand Institute.

So now you know, do it like Ann Rand would!
 

Bossman518

Active Member
I like that, I personally follow more of a Republican look at thinks, atleast in an econmic aspect. Now Michael Moore is a lier and a phoney. I think he is a fat slob who just likes to make money on us tragedies. So I like to see that article..
 

medicineman

New Member
I like that, I personally follow more of a Republican look at thinks, atleast in an econmic aspect. Now Michael Moore is a lier and a phoney. I think he is a fat slob who just likes to make money on us tragedies. So I like to see that article..
Hey asshole, just thought I'd drop a couple of names on you and see how you felt to be a dickwad, ~LOL~ peace.
 

closet.cult

New Member
Just for referance purposes, when VI posts an article, it pays to find out who the author is. This right wing Ann Rand director is one: Richard E. Ralston
Specialties: Ayn Rand's life, Objectivism (General), Projects of the Ayn Rand Institute, Volunteerism, Foreign Policy, Journalism and Media
After serving seven years in the U.S. Army, Mr. Ralston completed an M.A. in International Relations at the University of Southern California in 1977. He then began a career in newspaper publishing and direct marketing. He has been the circulation director and publisher of The Christian Science Monitor, a radio producer, a national television news business manager, and a book publisher. As an independent direct marketing consultant, his clients included IBM, British Airways, CNN, and the Los Angeles Times. His book Communism: Its Rise and Fall in the 20th Century was published in 1991. He edited the book Why Businessmen Need Philosophy in 1999, and was the revision editor of two books by Ayn Rand in 2005: Three Plays and The Early Ayn Rand. He is the Publishing Manager of the Ayn Rand Institute.

So now you know, do it like Ann Rand would!
Ayn Rand was a very intelligent woman. Have you read her books? They are deep and insightful. I'm not sure how bashing her helps your argument on this writer.
 

medicineman

New Member
Ayn Rand was a very intelligent woman. Have you read her books? They are deep and insightful. I'm not sure how bashing her helps your argument on this writer.
Ann Rand was basically a right wing commie-phobe, and yes I read her 30 years ago and what she was into is what the present regime (Bush) is all about. I don't like it anymore now than I did 30 years ago. So a person that is the brainfart of Ann Rand should be exposed for what he is, a commie-phobe and a right wing zealot. You should know that giving everyone free will results in anarchy and then you have a bullies rule society that is only fit for the bullies. Without limited government control of the population, there would only be masters and slaves. What people like you forget is "WE are the government"
 

ViRedd

New Member
Just for referance purposes, when VI posts an article, it pays to find out who the author is. This right wing Ann Rand director is one: Richard E. Ralston
Specialties: Ayn Rand's life, Objectivism (General), Projects of the Ayn Rand Institute, Volunteerism, Foreign Policy, Journalism and Media
After serving seven years in the U.S. Army, Mr. Ralston completed an M.A. in International Relations at the University of Southern California in 1977. He then began a career in newspaper publishing and direct marketing. He has been the circulation director and publisher of The Christian Science Monitor, a radio producer, a national television news business manager, and a book publisher. As an independent direct marketing consultant, his clients included IBM, British Airways, CNN, and the Los Angeles Times. His book Communism: Its Rise and Fall in the 20th Century was published in 1991. He edited the book Why Businessmen Need Philosophy in 1999, and was the revision editor of two books by Ayn Rand in 2005: Three Plays and The Early Ayn Rand. He is the Publishing Manager of the Ayn Rand Institute.

So now you know, do it like Ann Rand would!
Looks to me as though the author has some hefty credentials. I think I'd listen to his take on socialized medicine before I'd listen to naive, brainwashed socialist soldiers who haven't a clue what Ayn Rand really was all about.

By the way Med, why did you call attention to the "Christian Science Monitor" in red? The CSM is a very respected publication with an excellent editorial page. Have you ever read it?

Oh yeah ... and by the way, do you have anything to say about the article itself?

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Looks to me as though the author has some hefty credentials. I think I'd listen to his take on socialized medicine before I'd listen to naive, brainwashed socialist soldiers who haven't a clue what Ayn Rand really was all about.

By the way Med, why did you call attention to the "Christian Science Monitor" in red? The CSM is a very respected publication with an excellent editorial page. Have you ever read it?

Oh yeah ... and by the way, do you have anything to say about the article itself?

Vi
Yeah, it sucked and was right wing rhetorical brainwash just like all the posts you present. Pure conjecture, bringing up Walter reed to prove his point, what an ass.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Well, is Walter Reed a government installation, run by and for the government or not? Wasn't Walter Reed hospital a topic of hot discussion a few months ago as if it's run down condition was the fault of GW? The Bush slamming from the Left on the Walter Reed issue only stopped when MoveOn realized that it was being used as a negative example by the Right to oppose the socialization of medicine in this country. Pretty funny if you ask me.

Vi
 

gotdamunchies

Well-Known Member
I try to take all of Moores films with a grain of salt, but for me if even 20% of the facts that he gives are true, its just too many. Bottom line, this country has a long way to go before we can again all feel proud in saying that we are the greatest country on the planet.
 

ViRedd

New Member
I try to take all of Moores films with a grain of salt, but for me if even 20% of the facts that he gives are true, its just too many. Bottom line, this country has a long way to go before we can again all feel proud in saying that we are the greatest country on the planet.
So then, are you agreeing that the problem is that government has become to intrusive into our daily lives, or are you saying that we need more government intrusion?

Vi
 

gotdamunchies

Well-Known Member
So then, are you agreeing that the problem is that government has become to intrusive into our daily lives, or are you saying that we need more government intrusion?

Vi
Without a doubt I believe the government is far more intrusive than they need to be, especially in the last decade or so. I like my privacy as I'm sure most of us here do. Wouldn't you rather just grow on your front porch and not have to worry? I'm sure every member of this site would. But I still think that there are areas that the government is clearly not involved enough, educating our youth, health care, the environment and the list goes on. But balancing when you want government control as opposed to when you dont is not an easy task. And who decides the level of involvement? Voters? In our dreams...:peace:
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't you rather just grow on your front porch and not have to worry?
:hump:

and, i wish they all could be California girrrrrls.... lol

the purpose of government is to consolidate and control all the "bad" aspects of being human. i'm starting to think that is the sole purpose of government in general. they roll all the violence, theft, manipulation and lies into one nice neat system called the federal government - then they force us to pay for it.

people say that government should "take care of" this or that, but in reality those people want a cop out mechanism, an excuse to sit on their asses and do less. soon, those same people will want government to do the sitting around part - oh wait, that's what the progressive socialists are for...






.
 

closet.cult

New Member
Ann Rand was basically a right wing commie-phobe, and yes I read her 30 years ago and what she was into is what the present regime (Bush) is all about. I don't like it anymore now than I did 30 years ago. So a person that is the brainfart of Ann Rand should be exposed for what he is, a commie-phobe and a right wing zealot. You should know that giving everyone free will results in anarchy and then you have a bullies rule society that is only fit for the bullies. Without limited government control of the population, there would only be masters and slaves. What people like you forget is "WE are the government"
you don’t have a clue what ayn rand was about. you completely missed the point of her books. socialism is a horrible system that takes from the those capable enough to produce and gives to those who can argue but cannot create.

it seeks to create an equal living situation for all those ruled, and in the process moves the wealth into the hands of those who govern to 'supposedly' distribute it. if one lesson from history is learned it is that the ruling party is corrupted by their power. their greed will find new ways to usurp the wealth and it never makes it into the hands or lives of those governed.

you cannot trust a powerful man. that is why democracy was created. how can you see that logic in one man; bush, and yet fail to see the opportunity for corruption you are advocating with social medicine and the like.
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
how can fail to see the logic in one man; bush, and yet fail to see the opportunity for corruption you are advocating with social medicine and the like.

greed. some people are so fascinated by the opportunity to better themselves at the cost of another that it makes no difference if they become logically incongruous. he will extol the virtue of one system of robbery but lament the other.... this is the left.






.
 

closet.cult

New Member
there really is no end to the difference of opinions. and they stick to their ideas after having seen the consequences.
 

medicineman

New Member
you don’t have a clue what ayn rand was about. you completely missed the point of her books. socialism is a horrible system that takes from the those capable enough to produce and gives to those who can argue but cannot create.

it seeks to create an equal living situation for all those ruled, and in the process moves the wealth into the hands of those who govern to 'supposedly' distribute it. if one lesson from history is learned it is that the ruling party is corrupted by their power. their greed will find new ways to usurp the wealth and it never makes it into the hands or lives of those governed.

you cannot trust a powerful man. that is why democracy was created. how can fail to see the logic in one man; bush, and yet fail to see the opportunity for corruption you are advocating with social medicine and the like.

I don't know what planet you came from but here are a couple of facts. My SS checks arrive in my bank account on the 21st of the month, every month without fail. My VA medical is there and and waiting for me any time night or day. In emergencies, I go straight to the hospital and VA pays the bills, if I have a minor problem, I can go straight to a clinic and be seen the same day in about 15 minutes without an appt., try that with your medical plan. So to all you disbelievers, the government can work in some situations, the two I have mentioned work like clockwork. By taking the profit out of medical, the only ones that would really be hurt are the greedy enterpreneurs and HMOs and Insurance companies:roll:
 
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