STFU dick cheney....

[jrh72582]

Oh sorry, i forgot your really more of a Marx/Lennin/Stalin fan. I have a clue.

and now i close this conversation with a favorite quote:

"Those that can, do. those that can't, teach".

I play the Marxist when a gadfly is needed - sure. I play any role for the sake of inquiry. I'm a Socratic.

And insult my profession all you want. I really don't care.

 

[jrh72582]

Great warlord, great.

Now all the people that liek to believe anything that gets said, will believe this too.

I mean first Hanitty calling Obama the 'anointed one' and everyone believing that is something that we had called him, and now everyone is going to believe that Jrh is the "Great and Learned one".

(strokes imaginary beard).......hmmmm........I may like that

 

[jrh72582]

You should do a bit of research into why we were blindsided..... what I posted is 100% accurate.

It was Clinton who didn't take Al Queda seriously. It was Clinton who dismantled the CIA. It was Clinton who was given several opportunities to either kill/capture Bin laden, and CHOSE not to.

Point all the fingers away you want to, but it doesn't change a thing. Clinton shares the lions portion of guilt on 9/11..... no one else.

And how are those who PAID Bin Laden to fight for the United States of America not to blame?


Blame Clinton all you want, but you're simply wrong. You know it and it makes you angry.

 

[CrackerJax]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Here's abit of perspective by someone in the know.... next day after the attack.... this guy speaks honestly and openly..... before all the spin had been spun.
[/FONT]=============================

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Reprinted from NewsMax.com[/FONT]
​

[FONT=arial,helvetica]NewsMax.com[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica]Wednesday, Sept. 12, 2001[/FONT]
​

The catastrophe that struck America was the result of a decade of military cuts and the undermining of U.S. intelligence agencies, Admiral Thomas H. Moorer told NewsMax.com
Admiral Moorer served as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the nation’s highest-ranking military official, and brought the Vietnam war to a conclusion. He has served in three major wars.
Yesterday’s events brought back memories of Pearl Harbor, he said. Admiral Moorer, then a naval aviator, was present at Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941.
Admiral Moorer made the following analysis to NewsMax, his quotes are in bold:
1. The Clinton administration had a similar view to intelligence agencies as the Carter administration. They didn’t like using spies. This is why we had no warning.
"You absolutely need spies, you need them to melt into a society and tell you what is going on, you can’t rely on satellites and technology alone.”
2. The actions taken yesterday were the result of perceived weakness of U.S. armed forces.
​

"President Clinton brought the military down and down. He made the military like it was before Pearl Harbor.”
3. The U.S. must significantly increase its use of human intelligence, that is spies on the ground in foreign countries.
4. America must remain vigilant.
"This is like what Yamamoto said after Pearl Harbor, ‘A sleeping tiger has been aroused.’ We can’t just strike back and go back to sleep. Next time the attack could be even more serious.”
5. Soon terrorist groups will have access to nuclear weapons.
"This is inevitable. Countries like Russia and China are providing countries like Pakistan, Iraq and Iran with this technology – the same technology Clinton gave to the Chinese.”
​

6. Missile defense is needed now.
​

"The media is dead wrong when it says this proves we don’t need missile defense. Soon, the same countries that supported these terrorists that just attacked us will have missiles capable of hitting the U.S. We need to defend against their use.”
​

7. No additional attacks for the immediate future.
”I believe they reached the limits of their capabilities with these attacks. But they will try again later. They want nuclear weapons.
​

 

[OregonMeds]

You should do a bit of research into why we were blindsided..... what I posted is 100% accurate.

It was Clinton who didn't take Al Queda seriously. It was Clinton who dismantled the CIA. It was Clinton who was given several opportunities to either kill/capture Bin laden, and CHOSE not to.

Point all the fingers away you want to, but it doesn't change a thing. Clinton shares the lions portion of guilt on 9/11..... no one else.

Show us proof, not editorial opinions. I think you just have a very big clinton sized chip on your shoulder, not just a jizz stain of his either.

 

[CrackerJax]

That's not a reporter talking there...... it's from someone who was very close to what was going on during the Clinton years. Not an editorial at all.

Ever hear of Sandy Berger?

 

[PadawanBater]

That's not a reporter talking there...... it's from someone who was very close to what was going on during the Clinton years. Not an editorial at all.

Ever hear of Sandy Berger?

So you're telling me Clinton simply said "fuck what this guy has to say" - the chairman of the joint chiefs?


Cracker, it seems like you're proposing we should have a military presence in all the hostile countries around the world, just to make sure no shit goes down and no terrorists get their hands on nukes.

Coming from a guy who says he advocates smaller, limited government, this proposal confuses me and contradicts your earlier statements.

 

[OregonMeds]

That's exactly what I was thinking that cracker always asks for more limited government and I started to type a message asking why he believes any rhetoric saying that a larger unslashed budget would have made any difference when we already knew it was coming on a small budget but just decided not to post it.

But since you ask I will ask the same thing... Why do you believe they needed a larger budget to catch things like this when it's clearly been reported already that they DID already know in advance with a SMALLER budget.

Money wouldn't matter, they simply didn't listen because they were stupid. Money would not have made GW BUSH/Condoleeza Rice or any of them any smarter or made them listen any more.

Why do you insist it was Clintons fault when he wasn't even a part of ignoring the intel that could have stopped it all. In fact it was CLINTON who WARNED THOSE FUCKERS TO KEEP AN EYE ON AL QUEDA. HE DID FUCKING WARN THEM TOO.

Disclaimer: I'm not for any party, I call it as I see it and am an independant. I've never hated any pres more than Bush, but that was because he actually deserved it via his actions in office.

 

[hanimmal]

1. The Clinton administration had a similar view to intelligence agencies as the Carter administration. They didn’t like using spies. This is why we had no warning.
"You absolutely need spies, you need them to melt into a society and tell you what is going on, you can’t rely on satellites and technology alone.”

CJ I know we went back and forth a little in the past, but hell after being on the same side in the Spiritual sense, I know that you have stuff to offer. But this guy was wrong about no warning.

At least I the information that I had before does point to this.

Crap, I hate that I was as indoctrinated before against Bush the same that everyone is today against Obama. I did not do my homework then, like nobody is now. So maybe the papers that Bush got about planes hitting into the towers was not real, and just conjecture. I don't think that I ever actually saw it and did not read the 9-11 report. So that makes me question myself, and I cannot make the argument that I was going to.

So it is possible that I am wrong with the view of history that I had learned.

But that being said, it doesn't have to be just Bill or Just Bushes fault, because here is a guy that has stretched back to the cold war and had american presidents allowing his training the entire way through to 9-11. So I think that there is enough love to spread over all 4 or 5 presidents if need be.

 

[OregonMeds]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/10/politics/10terror.html

52 warnings, but no proof Bush or any of them knew, but please if the FAA knew and the intelligence agencies knew and it was that many warnings, come on... Either he never went to briefings or he was asleep or he forgot or he lied.


GW was GW. Don't go feeling sorry for him now just because anti Obama talk is so loud. It's only so loud because the GOP sees that as the best way you will forget what a tool Bush was. Their best strategy has always been to just muddy the waters, deflect attention, confuse the issue.

 

[hanimmal]

I am not so sure about that though Oregon, maybe there is a lot of evidence to this, but who says that article is correct? Look at how news is being reported about Obama today, so much news articles that are completely made up. Why is that not different? The woven cloth that helped us to hate Bush may have been just as woven in half truths and mis quotes as is going on now with Obama.

I mean that has 52 warnings, but Obama has 50 "Czars" if you quote the ny times. And that is false information, that is now excepted as truth.

The thing is if we can start to see what we believed as being false, it will allow us to better help others understand the garbage that they are listening to. Because we can show that we fell into the same trap, that is set up for them.

 

[OregonMeds]

You don't need rhetoric to spot an idiot, GW actually was an idiot Obama is not.

That 9-11 report is public record, you could read the actual report and confirm I'm sure many did.

 

[Green Cross]

You don't need rhetoric to spot an idiot, GW actually was an idiot Obama is not.

That 9-11 report is public record, you could read the actual report and confirm I'm sure many did.

Obama is a better liar, but that's only because he's more dishonest than Bush.

Why not focus on Obama's victory and all the good he's done, than looking to the past (bush)? Or did Bush raise the bar so high you have to compare?

 

[OregonMeds]

Because this thread is about the Bush administration... That's why.

I wouldn't say Obama is a better liar, just better, period. But then again if we'd only had no president this term, just empty seats, we might all be better off.

We'll see. I'm not an Obama fan, but I think given the choices we had and since none of the above was not an option...

 

[hanimmal]

Obama is a better liar, but that's only because he's more dishonest than Bush.

Why not focus on Obama's victory and all the good he's done, than looking to the past (bush)? Or did Bush raise the bar so high you have to compare?

But you should try to see that almost everything that has been 'reported' about Obama has been one lie after another. One thing that someone else had done, and somehow wrapping it up like Obama had done it. Just like we did with Bush.

I am not saying that Obama has not made bad decisions, or that did not make bad decisions. Just that the sexy ones and loudest shouted that I have researched are dead wrong facts wrapped in mis-quotes and faulty data.

And I am saying that I believed it when this happened with Bush, just like you are today with Obama.

You have nothing to support you thinking that he is dishonest. Look deeper, and you will find almost everything that gets reported is bullshit.

 

[CrackerJax]

He's not better. If he was better we wouldn't be sitting at near 10% unemployment (and RISING).

Obama PROMISED (cuz he's such an astute business person ) that if the stimulus was passed QUICKLY (it was, without anyone bothering to read it), unemployment wouldn't go above 8%. It has ONLY been 6 months and already it shows Obama doesn't understand basic economics....he understands politics. They are not the same.

Now given the new and terrible data that has already come in, AND.... AND the increasing bad news economically which is in the pipeline (Obama knows all about what's coming) headed our way, and let me tell you, it has only begun....knowing all this....he continues to drain the private sector and keeps right on spending.

He's not better....not at all. Not by a long shot. I'm just talking economics here....basic stuff. I won't even bother with foreign policy which so far...is a joke...and a bad one.

 

[Green Cross]

Hamas isn't the only terrorist organization that endorsed Sen. Barack Obama in the 2008 race for the presidency of the U.S.
Leading jihadists from multiple other terror groups also recently sounded off about the Illinois senator and a slew of other topics in a blockbuster book – Schmoozing With Terrorists – which takes readers into the viper's den of Islamic extremism.
WND's Jerusalem bureau chief Aaron Klein made world headlines last month after a top Hamas official, Ahmed Yousef, told him he "hopes" Obama becomes president and compared the Illinois senator to President John F. Kennedy.
"We like Mr. Obama, and we hope that he will win the elections," said Yousef.

 

[hanimmal]

Obama PROMISED (cuz he's such an astute business person ) that if the stimulus was passed QUICKLY (it was, without anyone bothering to read it), unemployment wouldn't go above 8%. It has ONLY been 6 months and already it shows Obama doesn't understand basic economics....he understands politics. They are not the same.

We've heard it from House Republican Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, Reps. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., and Lynn Westmoreland, R-Ga., as well as conservative talk show host Sean Hannity, to name a few. They all called it a "promise."
They are referring to a Jan. 9, 2009, report called "The Job Impact of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan" from Christina Romer, chairwoman of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, and Jared Bernstein, the vice president's top economic adviser.


Their report projected that the stimulus plan proposed by Obama would create between three and four million jobs by the end of 2010. The report also includes a graphic predicting unemployment rates with and without the stimulus. Without the stimulus (the baseline), unemployment was projected to hit about 8.5 percent in 2009 and then continue rising to a peak of about 9 percent in 2010. With the stimulus, they predicted the unemployment rate would peak at just under 8 percent in 2009.

In a White House news conference on June 8, 2009, Bernstein, the co-author of the February projections, said they were off because the fourth-quarter economic numbers weren't available at the time. When they were released a short time later, they revealed the economy was in more dire shape than economists realized.

What we can rule on, however, is whether the Obama administration "promised" that unemployment rates would not rise above 8 percent if the stimulus were passed. We could find no instance of anyone in the administration directly making such a public pledge.

What we saw from the administration in January was a projection, not a promise. And it was a projection that came with heavy disclaimers.


"It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error," the report states. "There is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program. Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."


There's also a footnote that goes along with the chart that states: "Forecasts of the unemployment rate without the recovery plan vary substantially. Some private forecasters anticipate unemployment rates as high as 11% in the absence of action."

Again just because it is reported does not make it true.

Hamas isn't the only terrorist organization that endorsed Sen. Barack Obama in the 2008 race for the presidency of the U.S.
Leading jihadists from multiple other terror groups also recently sounded off about the Illinois senator and a slew of other topics in a blockbuster book – Schmoozing With Terrorists – which takes readers into the viper's den of Islamic extremism.
WND's Jerusalem bureau chief Aaron Klein made world headlines last month after a top Hamas official, Ahmed Yousef, told him he "hopes" Obama becomes president and compared the Illinois senator to President John F. Kennedy.
"We like Mr. Obama, and we hope that he will win the elections," said Yousef.

If N. Korea had a election, (remember they look at us as the bad guy) and there was someone that we thought might help us to stop fighting them and try to find some kind of piece, you would be against someone saying that they hope they get elected?

I mean seriously Hamas never attacked us before we attacked them. They are a political group, and not the same as Al Quida. But I guess it is too much to ask some to think about what people are going through and that even though you may think that they are wrong, there would be able to find some peace.

 

[jrh72582]

He's not better. If he was better we wouldn't be sitting at near 10% unemployment (and RISING).

Obama PROMISED (cuz he's such an astute business person ) that if the stimulus was passed QUICKLY (it was, without anyone bothering to read it), unemployment wouldn't go above 8%. It has ONLY been 6 months and already it shows Obama doesn't understand basic economics....he understands politics. They are not the same.

Now given the new and terrible data that has already come in, AND.... AND the increasing bad news economically which is in the pipeline (Obama knows all about what's coming) headed our way, and let me tell you, it has only begun....knowing all this....he continues to drain the private sector and keeps right on spending.

He's not better....not at all. Not by a long shot. I'm just talking economics here....basic stuff. I won't even bother with foreign policy which so far...is a joke...and a bad one.

Same old story from Cracker. Bush is God. He freed the Iraqis. He cleared our deficit. He smote the enemies. He saved education. My dear god. This is seriously funny.

 

[jrh72582]

Hamas isn't the only terrorist organization that endorsed Sen. Barack Obama in the 2008 race for the presidency of the U.S.
Leading jihadists from multiple other terror groups also recently sounded off about the Illinois senator and a slew of other topics in a blockbuster book – Schmoozing With Terrorists – which takes readers into the viper's den of Islamic extremism.
WND's Jerusalem bureau chief Aaron Klein made world headlines last month after a top Hamas official, Ahmed Yousef, told him he "hopes" Obama becomes president and compared the Illinois senator to President John F. Kennedy.
"We like Mr. Obama, and we hope that he will win the elections," said Yousef.

I don't consider Hamas a terrorist organization. I apply labels unilaterally. It Hamas is a terrorist organization, then the US is. We invade countries and kill the people. We train assassins at the school of the Americas and they kill priests in Central America. We pay Osama to kill for us, then we try to kill him.

If anything, we're the biggest terrorists out there.