What's wrong with socialism?

doobnVA said:
Point out obvious flaws in your logic isn't belittling (unless you happen to be so full of pride yourself that you can't consider for even one moment that you might be misinformed).

Come correct or don't come at all.
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Yeah you are just an ass. You still think that for people to be equal we all have to have the same things. That's just stupid. I'm going to say it one last time, it doesn't matter what type of government or economy you have people have to change. It has nothing to do with capitalism or socialism. There will always be people that want power and will have more wealth then someone else, you just can't deal with it. You think changing the system will change people, but it won't. People have freewill and they will always find away around the system. And there is no point in arguing with you because you will always be set in your ways. Maybe one day you will figure it out. Now go post something that you are rolling around on the floor laughing...
 
doobnVA said:
I posted those to show that "all men created equal" is a basic philosophy of socialism. Our founders knew we could never prosper under pure capitalism (which, as a philosophy, subscribes to no such theories of equality), so they designed a system that could be both socialistic and capitalistic at the same time.

Times are tough, and money is tight. The DEA gets paid for drug raids, which would explain why the raids have increased. CA is an easy target for these federal raids, due to their open acceptance of MMJ which remains illegal under federal law.

Trust me, the dems in Congress have been trying to address the scheduling/prohibition of cannabis for some time now. With all the hubub about health care and the economy, these initiatives have fallen to the back burner. Hopefully once this health care issue has been laid to rest, they can focus on other issues of importance.
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Good. We are in agreement that my right to pursue MMJ has deminished since Obama took office. You should pm that guy from page 1 and tell him you were wrong.

My guess is the DEA staff is salary. How do they get paid for raids? Is something us simpletons are not made aware of? Where is the transparency? 1 regarding the raids and 2 I would like to know how the DEA is paid for raids, per your comment.


Clearly millions in SD have lost a right that Obama said he would not take away. You know, they also postponed all hearings for 10mo. No explanation.

Where's the transparence...whaaaaa
 
sunshine17542 said:
Yeah you are just an ass. You still think that for people to be equal we all have to have the same things. That's just stupid. I'm going to say it one last time, it doesn't matter what type of government or economy you have people have to change. It has nothing to do with capitalism or socialism. There will always be people that want power and will have more wealth then someone else, you just can't deal with it. You think changing the system will change people, but it won't. People have freewill and they will always find away around the system. And there is no point in arguing with you because you will always be set in your ways. Maybe one day you will figure it out.
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You're confusing socialism with communism. Socialism is NOT about everyone having the same things, it's about counteracting the inequities of capitalism and giving everyone an EQUAL CHANCE to succeed.

This isn't about material things, it's about opportunity.

Even with socialism, there will be a lower class, middle class, and wealthy people. It's just a way to close the class divide and reinvigorate the middle class.
 
doobnVA said:
Try more like 2%

You're right, they are the largest employer, but "government" encompasses lots of professions - teachers, social workers, police officers, etc.

Working for the government doesn't mean you have a voice in government matters, though, just as working for a large corporation doesn't mean you get to share in the profits.
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Nope its 9%, that includes state Gubbermint, but not schools or VA hospitals
 
doobnVA said:
You're confusing socialism with communism. Socialism is NOT about everyone having the same things, it's about counteracting the inequities of capitalism and giving everyone an EQUAL CHANCE to succeed.

This isn't about material things, it's about opportunity.

Even with socialism, there will be a lower class, middle class, and wealthy people. It's just a way to close the class divide and reinvigorate the middle class.
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Everyone does have the same opportunities in America. There are a lot of people that went from being dirt poor to being very successful.
 
I thought you were gone so long cause you were googling these raids. My guess is you don't live anywhere in CA let alone Souther Ca. This is a big frickin' deal down here. Were you not aware of this.
 
doobnVA said:
Do you know WHY it is that our poor have a higher standard of living than poor people in other countries?

Socialism.

Right here in the United States.

The minimum wage? That's socialism at work.

Tax credits? Socialism.

Public assistance programs? Socialism.

Subsidized college tuition? Socialism!

Socialism is not necessarily anti-capitalism. Did you know that most democratic societies (besides the US) have OPENLY socialist influences? We have those influences, too, but we generally don't use the "S" word when describing them (mostly because the "S" word is misunderstood as being the same thing as communism - which isn't the case). This is the result of years of spin from the GOP, who have brainwashed their party to believe socialism must ALWAYS be a stepping stone to communism or nationalization.

One only needs to take an honest look at some initiatives put forth by our members of Congress who are part of the Progressive caucus or members of the Democratic Socialist party to see that it's THEY who have our best interests in mind.

Of course, it takes an OPEN MIND to consider that socialism may not be as bad as the republican leaders have led you to believe - something you obviously do not possess.

Keep being an advocate for corporatism, and see where it leads you. To believe that a wealthy corporation has your best interests in mind is akin to willfully donating yourself to slavery.
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You say that socialism isn't total goverment control and redistribution. Let's say that you are right.
Two questions;
In your quote above you state that the minimum wage, tax credits, public assistance programs, and subsidized college tuition in America are expamples of socialism in america.
1) Who is in charge of those programs in America?
2) What is the effect of those programs in America?
 
nope...

i'm just saying... war does not equal economic recession, at least that's the way it used to be...

right now, i don't know, these aren't wars, this is more of a vietnam... only they call people fighting for their country terrorists.... i call them patriots.....
 
DubsFan said:
Good. We are in agreement that my right to pursue MMJ has deminished since Obama took office. You should pm that guy from page 1 and tell him you were wrong.

My guess is the DEA staff is salary. How do they get paid for raids? Is something us simpletons are not made aware of? Where is the transparency? 1 regarding the raids and 2 I would like to know how the DEA is paid for raids, per your comment.


Clearly millions in SD have lost a right that Obama said he would not take away. You know, they also postponed all hearings for 10mo. No explanation.

Where's the transparence...whaaaaa
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Yes, they are salaried, but they get "incentives" for seizing drugs and personal property (not the individual officers but the unit as a whole). What do you think they do with the property they take from people? They auction it off and keep a portion (if not all) of the proceeds. Same thing with the cash they seize. If it's determined to be "drug money", they keep it.

You still have the right to pursue your MMJ, that hasn't been taken away. It was illegal before, and it's illegal now. When you do something that's illegal, there's a risk involved.

I do think the federal gov't should keep their hands to themselves, though. CA residents implemented the MMJ laws, and the federal gov't should respect that.
 
doobnVA said:
Name one "right" that's been taken away from YOU, personally, in the last 8 months.


Oh, none? Okay, that's what I thought. :mrgreen:
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Uh ooooh. I've only been on for a little while too.

Do you want me to start with how my friend in a wheel chair had his house raided because of these raids. He was at his front door handing them the keys. They still kicked in the door. Took his cash and legal meds. None will be returned but he will be able to open business in a year he said. This may be the DEA but it's Obama's DEA.

SD raids under Bush in 2008 = 8
SD raids under Obama in 9mo = 23

Those are facts bro.
 
doobnVA said:
Yes, they are salaried, but they get "incentives" for seizing drugs and personal property (not the individual officers but the unit as a whole). What do you think they do with the property they take from people? They auction it off and keep a portion (if not all) of the proceeds. Same thing with the cash they seize. If it's determined to be "drug money", they keep it.

You still have the right to pursue your MMJ, that hasn't been taken away. It was illegal before, and it's illegal now. When you do something that's illegal, there's a risk involved.

I do think the federal gov't should keep their hands to themselves, though. CA residents implemented the MMJ laws, and the federal gov't should respect that.
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You're not helping yourself here. Your arrogance was pretty high in the beginning. The "I don't think so."

Thee man! Not a man, but Thee man said all is good on the MMJ front just a few months ago.

Please say it. "he lied"

Please say it. "you did lose your right Dubsfan" cause I did.

You won't. You'll have some link or a quote.
 
sunshine17542 said:
You won't. You'll have some link or a quote.
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This is funny he will find some link or quote lol[/QUOTE]

hehe...

He can't help himself. When this is all done I'll tell him thanks for playing. And I've only read the first page :mrgreen::mrgreen:

Ok, I have to move on. But I think I've made a very good case that SD residents have lost tremendous rights through the DEA raids under the Obama admin. These raids forced other dispensaries to close out of...."fear."

The big Fear word that so many used over the last eight years is rolling through SD in just over 8mo.

My guess is he doens't live here so he's having to do a little research. Cause of course it's not like Obama had a press conference for this...after all....that would mean he's exhibiting trasparency.

Personally, I'm still laughing about GITMO being closed in Jan. 230 prisoners and what...60 staff. How much fencing and electronics must be removed. He needs to shoot for Jan 2011 but currently the Dems are CUTTING funding for the closure of GITMO.

I find it all laughable.
 
DubsFan said:
Uh ooooh. I've only been on for a little while too.

Do you want me to start with how my friend in a wheel chair had his house raided because of these raids. He was at his front door handing them the keys. They still kicked in the door. Took his cash and legal meds. None will be returned but he will be able to open business in a year he said. This may be the DEA but it's Obama's DEA.

SD raids under Bush in 2008 = 8
SD raids under Obama in 9mo = 23

Those are facts bro.
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That sucks. That statement wasn't directed at your friend, though, who technically according to federal law has never had the right to possess marijuana. Now, if Obama directed the CA state and local police to start raiding MMJ users, then I'd gladly admit that my statement was incorrect.
 
doobnVA said:
That sucks. That statement wasn't directed at your friend, though, who technically according to federal law has never had the right to possess marijuana. Now, if Obama directed the CA state and local police to start raiding MMJ users, then I'd gladly admit that my statement was incorrect.
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He directly told them not to. Is that not enough?

My friend ran a dispensary. Their homes were raided too dude. Obama fans need to realize he has no control. The entire country is oblivious to these raids because most of SoCal is.

Again, why no press conference Mr. Obama to show us how good a job you are doing to shut down 'drug trafficking.' If they were raided isn't that what they were doing.

This guy isn't going to fly in on a friggin helicopter people. He's another Ivy league snob who is taking bribes to pardon people before he leaves office.
 
Because out of 40 or so posts in this thread I've posted all of what? Maybe 4 links? 2 of those were articles I thought someone might find interesting. The others were references to subjects being discussed. It's called "backing up your position with facts". You guys should try it =)
 
So what exactly do you advocate doob...what industries would you like to see government operated? What is your ideal Democratic Social state, and how does it work?
 
doobnVA please help me understand by answering the questions.
You say that socialism isn't total goverment control and redistribution. Let's say that you are right.
Two questions;
In your quote above you state that the minimum wage, tax credits, public assistance programs, and subsidized college tuition in America are expamples of socialism in america.
1) Who is in charge of those programs in America?
2) What is the effect of those programs in America?
 
iivan740 said:
doobnVA please help me understand by answering the questions.
You say that socialism isn't total goverment control and redistribution. Let's say that you are right.
Two questions;
In your quote above you state that the minimum wage, tax credits, public assistance programs, and subsidized college tuition in America are expamples of socialism in america.
1) Who is in charge of those programs in America?
2) What is the effect of those programs in America?
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total government control would be the government controlling EVERYTHING. Does subsidized tuition equate to the government controlling everything? Hardly.

Setting a minimum wage is not total control, nor is offering tuition grants to attend school or tax credits for low income individuals. These are government programs, so it should be pretty self explanatory as to who controls them.

Did I say government should control industry? Nope. I'm not opposed to a single payer health care system, though.

A single payer healthcare system isn't government control, either, if the hospitals remain private and the government simply pays the bills (like in Canada).

It's obvious that nobody reads the links I posted. Ask the Democratic Socialist party of America what they think socialism is. It isn't government control of everything, that's for sure.

I'm not advocating a pure socialist state. We already have socialist programs, I'd just like to see this expanded to health care.
 
doobnVA said:
total government control would be the government controlling EVERYTHING. Does subsidized tuition equate to the government controlling everything? Hardly.

Setting a minimum wage is not total control, nor is offering tuition grants to attend school or tax credits for low income individuals. These are government programs, so it should be pretty self explanatory as to who controls them.

Did I say government should control industry? Nope. I'm not opposed to a single payer health care system, though.

A single payer healthcare system isn't government control, either, if the hospitals remain private and the government simply pays the bills (like in Canada).

It's obvious that nobody reads the links I posted. Ask the Democratic Socialist party of America what they think socialism is. It isn't government control of everything, that's for sure.

I'm not advocating a pure socialist state. We already have socialist programs, I'd just like to see this expanded to health care.
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So Doob, we're in agreement then that there have been some rights lost under the Obama admin right?

Just say it...
 
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