Iran Update...

[Woomeister]

Oh please..... be serious. At least France is being semi serious. Also semi naive.

The Russians... the Russians use Iran to antagonize the west. They've been helping the Iranians at every turn possible.

The Russians cannot be trusted in anything at this point.

Dont shoot the messenger...just repeating the world news station thats all...

 

[CrackerJax]

I know..... but it amazes me how they report things.... as if some breakthrough had occurred.

Iran is going to get their bomb.... unless someone bombs them first.

Iran needs a lesson that deception and subterfuge will only bring misery to them. It's about time someone stepped up and instructed them.

The time for talk is well past.

 

[PadawanBater]

Iran is going to get their bomb.... unless someone bombs them first.

Iran needs a lesson that deception and subterfuge will only bring misery to them. It's about time someone stepped up and instructed them.

And the true agenda is finally revealed.

Not like it surprises anyone though...

Deception and subeterfuge... sounds like they took a page out of the CIA's handbook... Who should teach them a lesson?

 

[CrackerJax]

Paddy..... not even relevant... backhand insults aside.

The CIA keeps you alive son. Never bite the hand that protects you. Obama is making that mistake now. I thought you might be smarter than that.

But deflections aside.... yes OF COURSE, there is only ONE option. That is if you don't WANT Iran to have the bomb. All other options end up with Iran having the bomb.

See, this is something Bush, for all his other faults understood COMPLETELY. It's far better to do the right thing even though it is unpopular.
Bush was made from Presidential timber, again, faults aside. He understood the awesome responsibility to guarding 350 Million People. Obama does NOT.... not so far.

Obama wishes to be popular. It will all end in tears if he continues to walk down that path.

 

[PadawanBater]

Paddy..... not even relevant... backhand insults aside.

The CIA keeps you alive son. Never bite the hand that protects you. Obama is making that mistake now. I thought you might be smarter than that.

But deflections aside.... yes OF COURSE, there is only ONE option. That is if you don't WANT Iran to have the bomb. All other options end up with Iran having the bomb.

See, this is something Bush, for all his other faults understood COMPLETELY. It's far better to do the right thing even though it is unpopular.
Bush was made from Presidential timber, again, faults aside. He understood the awesome responsibility to guarding 350 Million People. Obama does NOT.... not so far.

Obama wishes to be popular. It will all end in tears if he continues to walk down that path.

Fuck the CIA CrackerJax. Yes there are honest, hardworking people who work there, but the entire organization is designed to spy on other countries. I don't see that as a positive organization we can use to achieve the goals we should try to strive to achieve. Just like invading other countries militarily, doing the exact same thing with a satellite or spec ops soldier creates hostility. Yes we need to monitor organizations that threaten safety and security, but the CIA's track record is terrible, there is mass corruption up and down the entire scope of our government, the CIA is not excluded. They abuse their power. I think we can do a better job without them.

I don't want Iran to get an atomic weapon, no. You present a false dichotomy by saying if they develop atomic capability they'll automatically start making nukes. That's not true, and you never present any evidence showing how it is true. Just like the religious nuts, you make a claim, state it as a fact yet show me nothing to support it... what do you expect?

Another thing, this pre-emptive shit you keep proposing. Do you remember when we went into Iraq? They tried to pull this EXACT SAME SHIT, sell us all a lie to get us there, then once we're there sell us the "well we're here now, we have to finish the job...", and now look where we are, almost 7 years later, STILL on the fuckin' ground with the job ''incomplete'' (when no clear goals were ever even set to begin with, making the entire thing look even more fabricated)... and our economy in shambles. You think we can afford another war in the middle east? Whose gonna finance it?

You have to let a country do what it's going to do. After they do something is when you have the justification to act. There's been too many bullshit stories or lies or corrupt people telling us the ''facts'' in history, it's happened so many times before it's amazing people don't see this shit coming! When we act before the country we accuse of terrorism or communism or whatever other ''ism'' sounds scary enough, we might as well be the terrorists ourselves, because whether you like it or not, innocent civilians will die. Pre-emptive strikes without accurate intelligence (that fantastic CIA!) is nothing more than an aggressive invasion. If Iran were to launch a nuke at some other country, yes millions of people would die, but we would have justification for action. EVERYONE would support us. You wouldn't have people like me saying our actions are illegal. When we go in before with nothing but accusations to throw around, it looks like we're just abusing our power as the strongest country in the world, what we say goes no matter what. Other countries don't like that attitude, not surprisingly...

 

[CrackerJax]

What do you think countries are doing with us? Playing tiddly winks?

Everybody spies... EVERYBODY.
So knowing that, you must OUT SPY your opponents. That's what the CIA (and others) are there for. To keep the USA safe from enemies OUTSIDE our borders.

There is NO difference between having a nuclear energy plant and making nukes. Once you have the centrifuges to create the uranium for the energy plant, one merely has to keep spinning the enrichment to get to weapons grade.
Hence ANY country which has a nuclear power plant and does it's own enriching, can produce a weapon. this is nOT classified stuff folks.

There is no lie concerning Iran. Iran is the one who has been lying all along. You folks are just behind the curve on waking up to that fact. Now you are falling backwards...it has already been proven that Iran is building nukes... so you need to rethink that or post a source who thinks they aren't. Other than Iran and Russia, and North Korea, you are alone. Is that the company you wish to keep?

You don't have to let a country do what it's going to do. Why did we fight Hitler? Why didn't we just let him do what he wanted to do? he promised European solidarity.... he would have done it too.

If you determine which wars you fight by your pocketbook, you have already lost. You fight wars for security and freedom, nothing else.

If we checked our pocketbooks, would we have elected Obama? He's spending money far faster than any war......

 

[redivider]

actually, there is a big difference between having nuclear power plants and having nuclear weapons.

the difference is that one is a weapon, the other is not.

stop spreading the propaganda CJ.

it has NOT been proven that Iran is building nukes.

you argue that this is a proven fact, just like it was a proven, unmistaken fact that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction right??

hehe

 

[CrackerJax]

Again, I'll repeat it SLOWLY so even you can understand (maybe not?)

If you have a uranium supply like ALL nuclear rectors MUST have, it is simple to spin that uranium up to weapons grade material.

It's not apples and oranges. It's apples becoming bigger apples. one need only feed the uranium from your reactor supply and voila... weapons grade material.

Red... you continually post without the slightest knowledge of what you are posting.

Work on it.... if you are able. If not, perhaps you should stay in the "grow" section.

This thread is for the adults.

 

[redivider]

actually, it is not as simple as keeping that uranium "spinning".

in order to have operational weapons grade uranium you need to establish a way to stabilize the reaction, and stabilize it in a way that keeps the uranium weapons grade, without having it cause a meltdown.

after that they have to design a way to start a reaction, this involves a canister being fired directly into the core of a reactor.

these mechanisms have to be designed, then scaled down to a size that will fit on a missile. that is not too easy, that is why america first had a BOMB that had to be towed by plane to it's destination. it took 20 years before the BOMB was fitted onto a rocket that would have the reliability and accuracy to deliver a nuclear warhead.

if it was as simple as operating centrifuges for a little longer they would have nuclear weapons already, the fact that they don't, only enforces the theory that the complexity and costs of the matter make it very VERY hard to design that system.

i'm not worried, not yet....

 

[PadawanBater]

What do you think countries are doing with us? Playing tiddly winks?

Everybody spies... EVERYBODY.
So knowing that, you must OUT SPY your opponents. That's what the CIA (and others) are there for. To keep the USA safe from enemies OUTSIDE our borders.

There is NO difference between having a nuclear energy plant and making nukes. Once you have the centrifuges to create the uranium for the energy plant, one merely has to keep spinning the enrichment to get to weapons grade.
Hence ANY country which has a nuclear power plant and does it's own enriching, can produce a weapon. this is nOT classified stuff folks.

There is no lie concerning Iran. Iran is the one who has been lying all along. You folks are just behind the curve on waking up to that fact. Now you are falling backwards...it has already been proven that Iran is building nukes... so you need to rethink that or post a source who thinks they aren't. Other than Iran and Russia, and North Korea, you are alone. Is that the company you wish to keep?

You don't have to let a country do what it's going to do. Why did we fight Hitler? Why didn't we just let him do what he wanted to do? he promised European solidarity.... he would have done it too.

If you determine which wars you fight by your pocketbook, you have already lost. You fight wars for security and freedom, nothing else.

If we checked our pocketbooks, would we have elected Obama? He's spending money far faster than any war......

Everyones the ''opponent'' in ol' CrackerJax world...

So the corruption, the abuse of power, none of that matters to you so long as they do their job half assed half the time?

I never said there was a difference, as I'm not an expert on nuclear technology, as you seem to be.. I said just because they may have the capability to enrich weapons grade uranium for a nuclear weapon does not mean that's what they're doing.

Show me some proof Iran is building a nuclear weapon. Now, when I say proof, I don't mean some slant from a right wing blog outlining what, to you, might look like some suspicious behavior. You're gonna need more than that.

We fought hitler because he threatened world safety and security, and our allies were being attacked by Germany, pretty justified.

You have to consider the bank account CrackerJax. What happens when we win at the end but our resources are completely depleted... did we really "win" anything at that point? That's another thing a lot of you guys advocating war don't seem to consider, it's a lot more than just defeating the enemy on the battlefield. What about the land after the conflict, what about the civilians, the economy, the resources used to produce goods for that area that was destroyed... I believe there is even a name military analysts have given this kind of "win" but still "lose" victory. I can't remember exactly what it is right now, but I'm sure it's got something to do with Nepoleon and was coined after his defeat through Russia.
Can't tell the future CJ. In hindsight, would you be supporting McCains economic plan right now?

 

[CrackerJax]

actually, it is not as simple as keeping that uranium "spinning".

in order to have operational weapons grade uranium you need to establish a way to stabilize the reaction, and stabilize it in a way that keeps the uranium weapons grade, without having it cause a meltdown.

after that they have to design a way to start a reaction, this involves a canister being fired directly into the core of a reactor.

these mechanisms have to be designed, then scaled down to a size that will fit on a missile. that is not too easy, that is why america first had a BOMB that had to be towed by plane to it's destination. it took 20 years before the BOMB was fitted onto a rocket that would have the reliability and accuracy to deliver a nuclear warhead.

if it was as simple as operating centrifuges for a little longer they would have nuclear weapons already, the fact that they don't, only enforces the theory that the complexity and costs of the matter make it very VERY hard to design that system.

i'm not worried, not yet....

You obviously don't know what spinning uranium means. They aren't causing reactions. The only problem with the spinning is the wear and tear on the centrifuges. It's costly, but the process for making yellow cake into uranium is fairly safe. Once at nuclear reactor levels, one need only keep spinning the centrifuges.
The most difficult step is the first step. Setting up the centrifuges correctly. After that, it is simply more time and energy needed to take it from nuclear power to nuclear weapons grade. It's only a matter of refinement.

I thought you would have looked at least that much up before posting.

 

[redivider]

actually i didn't look, i asked a friend of mine, an astro physicist. as you can tell, i surround myself with nerds, i consider myself one, sort of....

uranium is weapons grade when it's "active" enough. this means that it only needs a little bit of of a push to set off a reaction.

the problems are not only producing it... that's enough of a pain, like you said...

the problem is maintaining it at safe, manageable levels, where the rockin and rolling of a launch won't cause it to melt it's reactor down, destroying the rocket, before any sort of payload can be delivered.

also designing a warhead that can fit on the tip of a multi-stage rocket is also very VERY difficult. hell, building the multi-stage rocket itself is hard enough....

hell, i don't believe Iran has any ICBM's that can reach the U.S.... hmmm.. starting to wonder why the nuclear weapons is such a big deal....

 

[CrackerJax]

You are talking about a weapon. I am talking about making the uranium rich enough for a "clean" nuke.

ANY country with a nuclear reactor has the capability to produce a bomb.

All of the technical info needed to make a nuke warhead has been provided by Khan of Pakistan. Khan has already admitted as much. He is proud of what he does. this is NOT a secret.

 

[PadawanBater]

You are talking about a weapon. I am talking about making the uranium rich enough for a "clean" nuke.

ANY country with a nuclear reactor has the capability to produce a bomb.

All of the technical info needed to make a nuke warhead has been provided by Khan of Pakistan. Khan has already admitted as much. He is proud of what he does. this is NOT a secret.

Well, you keep saying that... show me an unbiased source of your information please. Is that so tough?

 

[CrackerJax]

Define unbiased.... UN? IAEA? They all agree now that Iran is building nukes.

How about you try and find a source which says otherwise. Keep it very recent since it was only 2 weeks ago that the IAEA finally admitted they had been fooled. Of course, the rest of us just yawned, since it was old news except to the very naive.

 

[PadawanBater]

Define unbiased.... UN? IAEA? They all agree now that Iran is building nukes.

How about you try and find a source which says otherwise. Keep it very recent since it was only 2 weeks ago that the IAEA finally admitted they had been fooled. Of course, the rest of us just yawned, since it was old news except to the very naive.

"Jesus is God" ... "prove it" ... "howbout you prove he's not?!" ...


...you couldn't see the clear analogy and I'm the ''naive'' one?


I'm not swallowing your bullshit CJ. It's not my responsibility to prove your claim false, it's your responsibility to prove your claim true.

 

[NorthwestBuds]

"Jesus is God" ... "prove it" ... "howbout you prove he's not?!" ...


...you couldn't see the clear analogy and I'm the ''naive'' one?


I'm not swallowing your bullshit CJ. It's not my responsibility to prove your claim false, it's your responsibility to prove your claim true.

CJ is right because he says he's right! $$$ and post count talks y'all.

 

[redivider]

he believes it... i don't.....

just like he believed Bush when he said there were WMD's in Iraq....

i didn't, who was right??

only time will tell on this one....



and no, there were no WMD's found in Iraq, EVER.

 

[CrackerJax]

I guess now that you are all alone in your opinion.... you are circling the wagons.

You are all alone.

And I thought you guys finally woke up. Oh well.

 

[CrackerJax]

Iran plans new centrifuges for 2nd enrichment site
(AP) – 2 hours ago
TEHRAN, Iran — An Iranian newspaper is reporting that the country plans to install a more advanced type of centrifuge in its newly revealed uranium enrichment site.
Tuesday's Kayhan daily quotes the head of Iran's nuclear agency, Ali Akbar Salehi, as saying the country has carried out research and development for a new generation of centrifuge to be made domestically.
The machines would be more advanced than the decades old P-1 type centrifuges acquired on the black market and in use at Iran's other enrichment facility in Natanz.
Iran's enrichment of uranium is the central concern of the United States and other nations negotiating with the country over its nuclear work. The technology can be used to make fuel for power plants and nuclear weapons.


That last bit is for RED, who seems thoroughly confused, but insists I'm the one spreading "propaganda".....


It isn't propaganda son, if it's true....... reality check of perhaps why you insist I'm wrong when you don't even understand the mechanics of what you berate.