Are MMJ patients paying illegal prices?

[can.i.buz]

"Cops aren't doctors, but they had the best parking spots." LOL! Go figure, eh?

BTW, I never got to thank you for the advice and offers of help... my computer got a very evil virus infection a couple days after my last post in here, and it's still down for the count. Trying to play Catch Up now. On that note, I very much appreciate all you've done for myself and others! Stay real!

P.S. How's the deployment situation going? Mine's been over for about two months, aside from the after effects we both have to deal with now. But he's safe at home, till he has to go again that is.

good to see you again. My daughter is here as we speak cooking dinner. It smells good.

 

[Katatawnic]

I'm so glad she's home! I had Skype issues, couldn't sign back on and talk with you. Hopefully that'll be fixed when my computer is working again.

 

[can.i.buz]

I'm so glad she's home! I had Skype issues, couldn't sign back on and talk with you. Hopefully that'll be fixed when my computer is working again.

let me know. I'm a geek. Maybe I can help. back to you

 

[Katatawnic]

Win32/Virut.17408 is the culprit. Biggest buzz kill I've ever encountered in years! It's at a friend's house right now, hopefully being repaired. I used to be a geek, but stopped keeping up with troubleshooting the last few years. Now all my learning is focused on growing the healthiest plants I can. Although I did learn quite a lot about this virus. It's sheer evil.

 

[n00bgr0wer]

I just have to say, I agree with can.i.buz 100%. We should link up some day.
I used to work out in South Bay area (Santa Monica)

I've read all pages thus far. Some of you are full of shit... others have shared some great info. I might be a n00b by join date and post count... but definitely not new to this game.



The dispensaries are the ones raping the market..

They are buying lbs from the grower, @ wholesale pricing for $2000.00-$3000.00 (and possibly a little higher, depending on strain)... per lb. Just think also... If it is a collective, and they are growing it themselves... they are raping in profit...but will stick to the grower/dispensary theory....

They are turning around and breaking that lb, into grams, 1/8th and 1/4.

A properly broken down lb into grams at a dispensary is a little over $9000.00, when that dispensary is paying $2000.00 for that lb, They are making $7000.00 profit.

A properly broken down lb into 1/8's at a dispensary is a little over $7600.00 (assuming the dispensary is selling 1/8's for $60.00). AGAIN.. do the math. over 5k in profit from the dispensary.

A properly broken down lb into 1/4's at a dispensary is a little over $6400.00 (assuming the dispensary is selling 1/4's for $100-$110) for the weight discounts.... AGAIN... do the math... that's over 4k in profits.

THE GROWER... now, the grower on the other hand.... is getting the shaft.
The typical grower across the nation is either growing in an APT. A house. or a condo. There are still those few that grow outdoors and produce major weight.. but for the subject of this discussion, let's focus on the indoor "small guy".

Rent - $800.00-$1000.00 PER MONTH. x's 3 months - $2400.00-$3000.00 (there goes your $2000.00 for that lb, right there in rent)
Water- $60.00-$100.00 PER MONTH. x's 3 months - $180.00 - $300.00
Nutrients - $150.00 PER Harvest (only organic nutes)
Electricity - $180.00-$300.00 PER MONTH x's 3 months - $540.00-$900.00
co2 refills - $7.00-$15.00 EACH. 1 refill per month (being very modest) x's 3 months - $21.00-$45.00

Ok...
now on the low side... That 1 lb, that your selling for $2000.00, will cost you around $3200.00 to make.
now on the high side...That 1 lb, that your still selling for $2000.00, will cost you around $4300.00 to make.

So unless your pushing weight... meaning growing more then 1lb per harvest... YOU ARE IN THE RED.... and not just by a couple bucks... by HUNDREDS, if not in the Thousand range.

To make a profit, at current given numbers... you would have to turn @ least 2.5 lbs. of PREMIUM Every 2.5 months, to begin to see a profit.

Also, with the growing of more medicine, comes more problems... electricity goes up, water consumption goes up, risk gets higher and higher.... so tell me... Is it worth it "to see a profit"? It is if you are business minded... MMJ (love it or hate it) is a cash crop... it's a business opportunity that some people will venture into, and some people will stay away from. They even got "weed college" In some countries http://www.cannabiscollege.com/contactus.html
and if I am not mistaken, In Northern Cali, they have a type of weed college up there as well. It's a business... much like growing Tobacco... Lettuce.. ect. It just happens to be one of the most profitable crops out there (if your growing 15 ft monster plants out doors) coughNORCALcough. haha.



Now, on the other hand..if your a sick patient that wants MMJ for $25/zone or for free, then you my friend, are your living in a dream world. This is not a traded commodity on the stock exchange (yet),

Unless they can come up with a miracle manufacturing process to make MMJ like Zoloft, Viagra, Penicillin [insert your fav. pill] ect.... where they can press buttons and BAM! You got yourself some pills!
MMJ TAKES TIME to grow, and TIME is money.

So for the guy saying he would like MMJ to be @ $25.00 an ounce... I got some Beach front property in Idaho I can sell you for $3.00 per square foot. It will never happen. Cheapest you'll see zones gone for in the dispensary is gonna be around $200.00 and for top shelf will be around $240.00. (That is if it becomes legal).... and remember ladies and gentleman... The State tax per zone in CA will be around $50.00. So do the math on that.


Anyhow.. I am done ranting.

Love and

n00bgr0wer.

 

[jsgrwn]

As a provider to a MMJ dispensary, I'm concerned. We are in a legal grey area still. There are a lot of costs associated with cultivation including potentially a huge legal bill, not to mention electricity and nutes. Air, rain, dirt and sunlight are free. Most growers aren't free to use them. Also, I spend at least 30 hours a week working on the plants. I couldn't be compensated a reasonable amount for my time @ $25 an ounce. Do you grow? Would you spend 30 hours a week and charge $25 an ounce?

this is the only post needed

 

[jsgrwn]

I just have to say, I agree with can.i.buz 100%. We should link up some day.
I used to work out in South Bay area (Santa Monica)

I've read all pages thus far. Some of you are full of shit... others have shared some great info. I might be a n00b by join date and post count... but definitely not new to this game.



The dispensaries are the ones raping the market..

They are buying lbs from the grower, @ wholesale pricing for $2000.00-$3000.00 (and possibly a little higher, depending on strain)... per lb. Just think also... If it is a collective, and they are growing it themselves... they are raping in profit...but will stick to the grower/dispensary theory....

They are turning around and breaking that lb, into grams, 1/8th and 1/4.

A properly broken down lb into grams at a dispensary is a little over $9000.00, when that dispensary is paying $2000.00 for that lb, They are making $7000.00 profit.

A properly broken down lb into 1/8's at a dispensary is a little over $7600.00 (assuming the dispensary is selling 1/8's for $60.00). AGAIN.. do the math. over 5k in profit from the dispensary.

A properly broken down lb into 1/4's at a dispensary is a little over $6400.00 (assuming the dispensary is selling 1/4's for $100-$110) for the weight discounts.... AGAIN... do the math... that's over 4k in profits.

THE GROWER... now, the grower on the other hand.... is getting the shaft.
The typical grower across the nation is either growing in an APT. A house. or a condo. There are still those few that grow outdoors and produce major weight.. but for the subject of this discussion, let's focus on the indoor "small guy".

Rent - $800.00-$1000.00 PER MONTH. x's 3 months - $2400.00-$3000.00 (there goes your $2000.00 for that lb, right there in rent)
Water- $60.00-$100.00 PER MONTH. x's 3 months - $180.00 - $300.00
Nutrients - $150.00 PER Harvest (only organic nutes)
Electricity - $180.00-$300.00 PER MONTH x's 3 months - $540.00-$900.00
co2 refills - $7.00-$15.00 EACH. 1 refill per month (being very modest) x's 3 months - $21.00-$45.00

Ok...
now on the low side... That 1 lb, that your selling for $2000.00, will cost you around $3200.00 to make.
now on the high side...That 1 lb, that your still selling for $2000.00, will cost you around $4300.00 to make.

So unless your pushing weight... meaning growing more then 1lb per harvest... YOU ARE IN THE RED.... and not just by a couple bucks... by HUNDREDS, if not in the Thousand range.

To make a profit, at current given numbers... you would have to turn @ least 2.5 lbs. of PREMIUM Every 2.5 months, to begin to see a profit.

Also, with the growing of more medicine, comes more problems... electricity goes up, water consumption goes up, risk gets higher and higher.... so tell me... Is it worth it "to see a profit"? It is if you are business minded... MMJ (love it or hate it) is a cash crop... it's a business opportunity that some people will venture into, and some people will stay away from. They even got "weed college" In some countries http://www.cannabiscollege.com/contactus.html
and if I am not mistaken, In Northern Cali, they have a type of weed college up there as well. It's a business... much like growing Tobacco... Lettuce.. ect. It just happens to be one of the most profitable crops out there (if your growing 15 ft monster plants out doors) coughNORCALcough. haha.



Now, on the other hand..if your a sick patient that wants MMJ for $25/zone or for free, then you my friend, are your living in a dream world. This is not a traded commodity on the stock exchange (yet),

Unless they can come up with a miracle manufacturing process to make MMJ like Zoloft, Viagra, Penicillin [insert your fav. pill] ect.... where they can press buttons and BAM! You got yourself some pills!
MMJ TAKES TIME to grow, and TIME is money.

So for the guy saying he would like MMJ to be @ $25.00 an ounce... I got some Beach front property in Idaho I can sell you for $3.00 per square foot. It will never happen. Cheapest you'll see zones gone for in the dispensary is gonna be around $200.00 and for top shelf will be around $240.00. (That is if it becomes legal).... and remember ladies and gentleman... The State tax per zone in CA will be around $50.00. So do the math on that.


Anyhow.. I am done ranting.

Love and

n00bgr0wer.

what a great point

 

[PotPatriot]

Whoever advocated the "state" or "fed" being in control of a Medical Marijuana Facility is FUCKING BONKERS!!! they prohibit it and fight the legalization of it for medicinal use for over 70+ years and you want to HAND THEM CONTROL OF THE PRODUCTION OF SAID MEDICINE!!!! YOU GUYS ARE BATSHIT RETARDED!!! Sounds like a bunch of obama supporters and more people who want what they want because they believe they are entitled to it and want it for free!! I am in my mid 20's and am SICKENED by my supposed peers who want everything handed to them, mortgage wiped clean, 100k$ house when they make 25k$ a year, if you want 25$ an ounce herb, grow it your fucking self, its not gonna happen even doing it outdoor with fish guts and rainwater, because the rain barrel costs 3000$ and the fish cost $ to feed in your own pond, and so forth and so on, this $ and product does not come from thin air!! People work hard to create or develop any product, so why is it now all of a sudden everyone wants us to be socialists and just give shit away? Whats your trade? are you a mechanic? Gonna fix my car for free? no im not gonna PAY YOU SHEESH THIS IS AMERICA!!!!......this is where we are headed.

Read the Constitution of The United States of America, show me where it says I have to give you a service or product for a price you demand! this is a REPUBLIC and such forth demands that we are CAPITALISTS, which means if I have spend my $ on stocks and options and bonds and make a good chunk of change my reward is the monetary compensation for investing. now you who spends their $ on drinks at the bar, the ho-ho in the backseat or the stripper on saturdays but then wonders why he doesnt own a house....FUCK YOU!

 

[mdave]

I haven't read this thread, but n00bgr0wer has already pointed out the costs of growing. Now everyone who's complaining about dispensary pricing..have you even considered the costs that dispensaries have? Rent of a retail location... Purchase of product. Lawyers on retainer. overhead to cover raids.. etc.. The owner has his/her own bills to pay and has to pay employers.

Now i dont understand why no one ever takes the cost of running a dispensary. n00bgr0wer listed all sales of bud as a profit but once you start taking into account all the expenses they have to pa.. maybe youll understand why its not as preposterous to be charing 50/8th

 

[can.i.buz]

Win32/Virut.17408 is the culprit. Biggest buzz kill I've ever encountered in years! It's at a friend's house right now, hopefully being repaired. I used to be a geek, but stopped keeping up with troubleshooting the last few years. Now all my learning is focused on growing the healthiest plants I can. Although I did learn quite a lot about this virus. It's sheer evil.

You need a mac!

 

[can.i.buz]

Whoever advocated the "state" or "fed" being in control of a Medical Marijuana Facility is FUCKING BONKERS!!! they prohibit it and fight the legalization of it for medicinal use for over 70+ years and you want to HAND THEM CONTROL OF THE PRODUCTION OF SAID MEDICINE!!!! YOU GUYS ARE BATSHIT RETARDED!!! Sounds like a bunch of obama supporters and more people who want what they want because they believe they are entitled to it and want it for free!! I am in my mid 20's and am SICKENED by my supposed peers who want everything handed to them, mortgage wiped clean, 100k$ house when they make 25k$ a year, if you want 25$ an ounce herb, grow it your fucking self, its not gonna happen even doing it outdoor with fish guts and rainwater, because the rain barrel costs 3000$ and the fish cost $ to feed in your own pond, and so forth and so on, this $ and product does not come from thin air!! People work hard to create or develop any product, so why is it now all of a sudden everyone wants us to be socialists and just give shit away? Whats your trade? are you a mechanic? Gonna fix my car for free? no im not gonna PAY YOU SHEESH THIS IS AMERICA!!!!......this is where we are headed.

Read the Constitution of The United States of America, show me where it says I have to give you a service or product for a price you demand! this is a REPUBLIC and such forth demands that we are CAPITALISTS, which means if I have spend my $ on stocks and options and bonds and make a good chunk of change my reward is the monetary compensation for investing. now you who spends their $ on drinks at the bar, the ho-ho in the backseat or the stripper on saturdays but then wonders why he doesnt own a house....FUCK YOU!

Did you see "Sex Drive"? It's pretty funny but the Amish that keep fixing the car is priceless and reminds me of this conversation.

 

[can.i.buz]

We'll be lucky to find a dispensary soon if we don't do something. (that's me behind the hippy)

Los Angeles County Dist. Atty. Steve Cooley said Thursday he will prosecute medical marijuana dispensaries for over-the-counter sales, targeting a practice that has become commonplace under an initiative approved by California voters more than a decade ago.

"The vast, vast, vast majority, about 100%, of dispensaries in Los Angeles County and the city are operating illegally, they are dealing marijuana illegally, according to our theory," he said. "The time is right to deal with this problem."

Cooley and Los Angeles City Atty. Carmen Trutanich recently concluded that state law bars sales of medical marijuana, an opinion that could spark a renewed effort by law enforcement across the state to rein in the use of marijuana. It comes as polls show a majority of state voters back legalization of marijuana, and supporters are working to place the issue on the ballot next year.

The district attorney's office is investigating about a dozen dispensaries, following police raids, and is considering filing felony charges against one that straddles the Los Angeles-Culver City line.

"We have our strategy and we think we are on good legal ground," Cooley said.

Medical marijuana advocates say the prosecutors are misinterpreting the law.

"I'm confident that they are not right," said Joe Elford, chief counsel for Americans for Safe Access. "If they are right, it would mean that thousands of seriously ill Californians for whom the Compassionate Use Act was intended to help would not be able to get the medicine that they need."

Law enforcement officials have been frustrated by the explosion in the number of dispensaries in Southern California, arguing that most are for-profit enterprises that violate the 1996 voter initiative legalizing medical marijuana and the 2003 state law permitting collective cultivation. Cooley's announcement, coming at a news conference that followed a training session he and Trutanich conducted for narcotics officers, dramatically raises the stakes.

In the city of Los Angeles, some estimates put the number of dispensaries as high as 800. The city allowed 186 to remain open under its 2007 moratorium, but hundreds of others opened in violation of the ban while the city did nothing to shut them down.

In August, Cooley and Sheriff Lee Baca sent a letter to all mayors and police chiefs in the county, saying that they believed over-the-counter sales were illegal and encouraging cities to adopt permanent bans on dispensaries.

Mark Kleiman, a professor of public policy at UCLA and an expert on drug policy, was not surprised that local prosecutors had decided to attack the rapid proliferation of marijuana stores.

"I think it's a natural response to the rather flagrant marketing practices of a bunch of the dispensaries. The medical veneer has been wearing thinner and thinner," he said. "I've always wondered why those things were legal when they didn't look legal to me."

Cooley said he believes that under state law, collectives must raise their own marijuana and can only recoup their costs. "That's absolutely legal," he said. "We're going to respect that."

But he said none of them currently do that.

The district attorney's warning could make the situation more chaotic in Los Angeles, where the City Council has struggled for two years to devise an ordinance to control the distribution of medical marijuana.

In addition to prosecuting dispensaries, Cooley said he would consider going after doctors who write medical marijuana recommendations for healthy people. Medical marijuana critics argue that some doctors freely recommend the drug to people who are not ill.

Medical marijuana advocates celebrated a brief thaw in the enforcement climate after the Obama administration signaled earlier this year that it would not prosecute collectives that followed state law. That spurred many entrepreneurs to open dispensaries in Los Angeles. As stores popped up near schools and parks, neighborhood activists reacted with outrage and police took notice.

Councilman Dennis Zine, a key player on the issue at L.A. City Hall, welcomed Cooley's decision to prosecute dispensaries. "There are many that are operating illegally and it's not a secret," he said, adding that he believes "a few" collectives in the city are operating legally.

Anticipating that police departments will ramp up raids on dispensaries, medical marijuana advocates reacted with dismay to Cooley's announcement.

"What we'll see is a big disruption," said Don Duncan, the California director for Americans for Safe Access. He called Cooley's decision "incredible" and said, "It certainly sounds scary."

1 2 next | single page
Copyright © 2009, The Los Angeles Times

 

[Katatawnic]

You need a mac!

Way too broke to think of another computer. (Disability income ain't very much. BLAH!) But no more WinBlow$... I made the switch to Linux last night. Lots of learning ahead of me before it's all configured the way I want, but I've got my computer back!

We'll be lucky to find a dispensary soon if we don't do something. (that's me behind the hippy)

And you look so cute back there!

I think a report and ledger much like n00bgr0wer's list, but broken down into even more detail to show what we truly spend financially on growing (not even counting the hours upon hours of work involved), needs to be presented to these idiots. People realize it takes lots of money to produce fruit and veggies, but for some reason it's "free" to grow our medicine. Freaking fools! Even I didn't realize just how much it truly costs to grow until seeing it broken down like that (here and elsewhere), and I've been going at it for eight months now... but only on my way to my first harvest! (First grow ended up all males; had to start over. Now almost at a perpetual setup of clones and fem seedlings, thankfully.) Meanwhile struggling harder than ever to just make ends meet barely enough to keep utilities from being shut off, buying Mexi brick for what little medicine I can afford after all I've invested in my indoor garden, and having to only smoke instead of cooking with it which means a lot less pain relief! (Let's not even start to discuss the crap that's supposed to resemble "food" I've been eating just so that I can have something in my stomach each day!)

My time gardening is limited; how long I don't know yet, but my body will give out to the point of having to stop sooner or later. My garden is living on borrowed time. Without dispensaries available, what will I do? Rely on friends to do this for me? Right! This is a truly terrifying thought for countless people like me.

 

[can.i.buz]

Way too broke to think of another computer. (Disability income ain't very much. BLAH!) But no more WinBlow$... I made the switch to Linux last night. Lots of learning ahead of me before it's all configured the way I want, but I've got my computer back!



And you look so cute back there!

I think a report and ledger much like n00bgr0wer's list, but broken down into even more detail to show what we truly spend financially on growing (not even counting the hours upon hours of work involved), needs to be presented to these idiots. People realize it takes lots of money to produce fruit and veggies, but for some reason it's "free" to grow our medicine. Freaking fools! Even I didn't realize just how much it truly costs to grow until seeing it broken down like that (here and elsewhere), and I've been going at it for eight months now... but only on my way to my first harvest! (First grow ended up all males; had to start over. Now almost at a perpetual setup of clones and fem seedlings, thankfully.) Meanwhile struggling harder than ever to just make ends meet barely enough to keep utilities from being shut off, buying Mexi brick for what little medicine I can afford after all I've invested in my indoor garden, and having to only smoke instead of cooking with it which means a lot less pain relief! (Let's not even start to discuss the crap that's supposed to resemble "food" I've been eating just so that I can have something in my stomach each day!)

My time gardening is limited; how long I don't know yet, but my body will give out to the point of having to stop sooner or later. My garden is living on borrowed time. Without dispensaries available, what will I do? Rely on friends to do this for me? Right! This is a truly terrifying thought for countless people like me.

I'd be happy to help you in what ever way I can.

 

[can.i.buz]

So here's what the cops are going to do. They are waiting for the ordinance to be written (they have until March 20, 2010 when the moratorium expires) so it will probably happen soon and it won't be well thought out. Then the cops are going to notify ALL the dispensaries in LA that they are illegal and give them time to voluntarily close down. The ones that don't will be raided. The time is now guys. Send some support to ASA today. They are doing the fighting for us!

 

[Katatawnic]

Who's willing to bet that the protests won't be so "peaceful" when this happens?! There's gonna be a huge number of very angry MMJ patients in droves!

So in other words, this "class" they held was really just a briefing on how and when to raid all the MMJ suppliers.

 

[OregonMeds]

Holy fuck $25 would put it way cheaper than cigarettes a carton is $50 these days and I'd have to say an ounce of weed should by all rights carry a value higher than a carton of cigarettes.

Maybe you should petetion to get medicare/medicaid/insurance to cover the cost of your weed.

One day when there are no more laws against us and we can all grow it everywhere for free in big happy fields under the sun you still couldn't get someone to do it for you at $25 an ounce. Maybe an illegal using urine on your land...

 

[Illegal Smile]

Most of the cost of weed today could be said to be the result of risk. That's the reason it can sell for 20 a gram. What will happen eventually is that legalization will remove the risk and risk related cost. But what will also happen is that taxation will take its place, that's why it will be legalized. So anyone who thinks legalization will lower cost per gram from 20 to 5 and that the consumer will keep the other 15 is mistaken. The governemnt will take the other 15.

 

[can.i.buz]

Most of the cost of weed today could be said to be the result of risk. That's the reason it can sell for 20 a gram. What will happen eventually is that legalization will remove the risk and risk related cost. But what will also happen is that taxation will take its place, that's why it will be legalized. So anyone who thinks legalization will lower cost per gram from 20 to 5 and that the consumer will keep the other 15 is mistaken. The governemnt will take the other 15.

I'm sure you are correct.

 

[angelsbandit]

NOObgrOwer,

Your numbers are not even close to actual costs. If you want to defend the prices - use real numbers.
　
Most growers grow at their home so the rent is not applicable, so take the $2400 to $3000 off the top.
Even if they rented a place it wound not be for just a pound every 100 days - it would be for major weight so the rent numbers are a joke.
　
Electric costs per 1000 watts:
1000 watts x 18 hours per day is $2.34 per day x 30 days veg. is $70.20
1000 watts x 12 hours per day is $1.56 per day x 70 days bloom is $109.20

Water: - $180 to $300
Nope - Most growers use tap water, just a few bucks - $50

Nutrients:
We will use your numbers $150

CO2:
Nope - Most growers don’t use it.

Actual cost: less than $400 per 100 watts.

Add your labor:
1 hour per day per 1000 watts x 100 days is 100 hours x $25 per hour is $2500 per 1000 watts.

Total cost including your labor is less than $3000 per 1000 watts:
So a competent grower is still making $1450 to $3700 per 1000 watts on top of the $2500 for his time.

Actual compensation: $3950 to $6200 every 100 days per each 1000 watts for an hour per day investment.

There are variables that can change the above numbers, but these numbers are much more realistic than what you quoted.