Who wants bigger gov't??? Please help me understand liberals.

[medicineman]

The other side of government intrusiveness is not lawlessness. Appointed czars setting salary caps is not regulation that was arrived at through a democratic process. Besides, unlike activist administrations in the past, this admin doesn't just want to exercise control over "corporations" they want to get at the corporations because through them, they can control us all.
__________________
Believe me, If regulation of CEOs were arrived at in a true democratic process involving all concerned, employees, stockholders and the general public, those greedy bastards would be fired, all due compensation returned to the general fund, and new CEOs paid a reasonable wage, like 8-10 times the average worker, not 600-1000 times as is now. If corporations were ruled by a true democratic process, we'd have socialized capitalism, the very structure I've been proposing on this site. Gazillion dollar CEOs should be a thing of the past. No one worker of any corporation deserves that kind of Jack. Outright owners are a different deal, but they usually incorporate when they grow big for liability and tax purposes.

 

[Phenom420]

HAHAHA cracker your avatar is funny bro

hey guys check this shit out

https://www.rollitup.org/politics/271409-new-world-order-being-taought.html

 

[Illegal Smile]

The other side of government intrusiveness is not lawlessness. Appointed czars setting salary caps is not regulation that was arrived at through a democratic process. Besides, unlike activist administrations in the past, this admin doesn't just want to exercise control over "corporations" they want to get at the corporations because through them, they can control us all.
__________________
Believe me, If regulation of CEOs were arrived at in a true democratic process involving all concerned, employees, stockholders and the general public, those greedy bastards would be fired, all due compensation returned to the general fund, and new CEOs paid a reasonable wage, like 8-10 times the average worker, not 600-1000 times as is now. If corporations were ruled by a true democratic process, we'd have socialized capitalism, the very structure I've been proposing on this site. Gazillion dollar CEOs should be a thing of the past. No one worker of any corporation deserves that kind of Jack. Outright owners are a different deal, but they usually incorporate when they grow big for liability and tax purposes.

Really? Why is there no legislation to do what you propose pending in congress? Well, there may be a bill introduced by some look like Dennis Kucinich, but I mean a serious bill. Could it be because such a proposal would be political suicide? Because the vast vast majority of Americans don't even want a whiff of communism? I think so.

 

[Phenom420]

Really? Why is there no legislation to do what you propose pending in congress? Well, there may be a bill introduced by some look like Dennis Kucinich, but I mean a serious bill. Could it be because such a proposal would be political suicide? Because the vast vast majority of Americans don't even want a whiff of communism? I think so.

Whats up there IS¿

I thought america wanted to be commy?

 

[medicineman]

Really? Why is there no legislation to do what you propose pending in congress? Well, there may be a bill introduced by some look like Dennis Kucinich, but I mean a serious bill. Could it be because such a proposal would be political suicide? Because the vast vast majority of Americans don't even want a whiff of communism? I think so.

Uhhhh, Probably because those in congress, (Excluding Kucinich,which by the way is not a Kook, maybe Ron Paul also) are bought and paid for by corporations. I'll bet you any amount, well any I could afford, that if put it to a vote to the American people, you'd find it would be more my way than yours. Do you honestly believe the American people are all right with the outrageous pay of CEOs?

 

[Phenom420]

Uhhhh, Probably because those in congress, (Excluding Kucinich,which by the way is not a Kook, maybe Ron Paul also) are bought and paid for by corporations. I'll bet you any amount, well any I could afford, that if put it to a vote to the American people, you'd find it would be more my way than yours. Do you honestly believe the American people are all right with the outrageous pay of CEOs?

Hell no they aren't, the poor envy the rich, always. im guilty! Id love to be loaded.

It pisses me off that these crooks and ENEMIES can make that much, I'm no ones but the gov enemy. I dont want to hurt or take anything from anyone.

 

[londonfog]

Uhhhh, Probably because those in congress, (Excluding Kucinich,which by the way is not a Kook, maybe Ron Paul also) are bought and paid for by corporations. I'll bet you any amount, well any I could afford, that if put it to a vote to the American people, you'd find it would be more my way than yours. Do you honestly believe the American people are all right with the outrageous pay of CEOs?

Hell no...and anyone who says different is so out of touch it would make me want to

 

[Phenom420]

Hell no...and anyone who says different is so out of touch it would make me want to

Well im glad I took ya off my ignore list to see a good post, right on sir!

 

[londonfog]

lol...on somethings we may agree...and on somethings we won't

 

[Phenom420]

lol...on somethings we may agree...and on somethings we won't

I can't even remember what we disagreed on Bud... LMFAO, I was like why is they on my bad list, been a while since i blocked anyone.. Ah my news have changed a bit so we may agree more than u kno I dunno.

Everyone will always disagree on stuff, it's how we are, but we can deal with it better than most and shake hands and smile.

 

[londonfog]

I can't even remember what we disagreed on Bud... LMFAO, I was like why is they on my bad list, been a while since i blocked anyone.. Ah my news have changed a bit so we may agree more than u kno I dunno.

Everyone will always disagree on stuff, it's how we are, but we can deal with it better than most and shake hands and smile.

Agreed..hell I was even starting to watch one of your grows...what happened ???

 

[Phenom420]

Agreed..hell I was even starting to watch one of your grows...what happened ???

Lol which one? I got lazy and Ive been doing my journals elsewhere.

 

[londonfog]

I know it had Sour Cream in the title..but you started to grow something else...but hey hope its going strong

 

[Phenom420]

I know it had Sour Cream in the title..but you started to grow something else...but hey hope its going strong

yeah La Woman, Sour, G13 Diesel for me and the Wifey has 2 Strawberry Blues
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/251946-gro-7-g13-diesel-bareneys-12.html#post3387575
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/251956-strawbery-blue-1st-grow-d-9.html

Hers is on the left, mine on the right.

Thx Bud

 

[CrackerJax]

Its funny how everyone sees what is constitutional and what is not..where the hell was you during Bush's unconstitutional BS...If you didn't say nothing then STFU now ...Sit back and enjoy the ride...weeeeeeeeeeee

maybe u need to educate urself about it first ... ur wrong ... as usual.

 

[londonfog]

maybe u need to educate urself about it first ... ur wrong ... as usual.

ok Cracker but you still just sit back and still enjoy the ride

 

[ancap]

No, capitalism works best for YOU...

By giving freedom to "the people" you are also giving power to take freedom away.
You really trust the most ambitious among us will not use that power?

Power over consumers from a business can only happen when a government creates the environment for that company to operate in an oligarchy or monopoly. The only other way a company can have power over consumers is if the organization pushes its products or services at the point of a gun... but then we'd just call this organization a government. Monopolies and oligarchies are impossible to sustain in a free market as artificially high prices and limited supply create a demand vacuum to be filled by a constant stream of new market players.

You haven't proven that free markets work best on their own.

There has been no modern examples of a free market that has been left untouched by the force of a government gun, so there are no case studies to point to. However, it is indisputable that the free market creates vast amounts of prosperity across the board within a society. Without the free market, humanity will truly revert to the dark ages. So the question left is, why do so many industries and big businesses trend towards corruption and cronyism? To ignore the possibility that government favoritism, bribes, barriers to market entry (licensing, regulation and massive compliance costs) might be the culprit is an insult to your own intelligence.

Please read my FDA thread for a great example of government regulation resulting in a massive atrophy of innovation, and quite possibly the deaths of millions upon millions of people who died silently from their various illnesses when medical advances existed to cure them or prolong their lives.

 

[Phenom420]

ok Cracker but you still just sit back and still enjoy the ride

I wonder how long the line will be to get on the ride.....

 

[Hydrolicious]

Power over consumers from a business can only happen when a government creates the environment for that company to operate in an oligarchy or monopoly. The only other way a company can have power over consumers is if the organization pushes its products or services at the point of a gun... but then we'd just call this organization a government. Monopolies and oligarchies are impossible to sustain in a free market as artificially high prices and limited supply create a demand vacuum to be filled by a constant stream of new market players.

Are you in opposition to patent laws? (inventions, medicine, etc)
Copyright laws? (software, music, games, books)

There is a case to be made that laws such as these encourage innovation in an otherwise impossible situation...

Monopolies and oligarchies are impossible to sustain in a free market as artificially high prices and limited supply create a demand vacuum to be filled by a constant stream of new market players.

EVERYTHING is impossible to sustain. Even Rome eventually fell. The question becomes...

How many generations of abuse do you allow to continue before you step in and break up a monopoly?

Without AMD, Intel would arbitrarily tax every computer with whatever nominal sum it wanted until the computer is no longer a commodity as it is now...

AMD was set up BECAUSE of concern over antitrust issues... How can you oppose this?

There has been no modern examples of a free market that has been left untouched by the force of a government gun, so there are no case studies to point to.

Then give me an example of a non-modern free market that did not devolve into cronyism...

DONT UNDERESTIMATE GREED!

However, it is indisputable that the free market creates vast amounts of prosperity across the board within a society. Without the free market, humanity will truly revert to the dark ages. So the question left is, why do so many industries and big businesses trend towards corruption and cronyism?

GREED IS HUMAN NATURE!!!

To ignore the possibility that government favoritism, bribes, barriers to market entry (licensing, regulation and massive compliance costs) might be the culprit is an insult to your own intelligence.

Certainly this can be true IN SOME CASES. But you keep resorting to this as a broad argument. I've already stated that I judge the merit of every regulation based on the specific situation surrounding it. It just may happen that a law becomes obsolete and counterproductive... in this case lets review the specific case...

Also, please dont bring my intelligence into question as a means of attacking my arguments.

Please read my FDA thread for a great example of government regulation resulting in a massive atrophy of innovation, and quite possibly the deaths of millions upon millions of people who died silently from their various illnesses when medical advances existed to cure them or prolong their lives.

When I presented a real life case to you... this is what you had to say:

If you are correct, then my source is bad. Either way, I really don't know enough about the ins and outs of this industry to debate you on specifics. Don't mean for that to be a cop out.

Once again I present to everyone on this thread the challenge to refute my real life example of an industry that needs regulation(or needed at least). Show me how govt regulation supported the industries oligarchy... YOU CANT.
Because they did that on their own...

Anyone who thinks free capitalism always works on its own please respond to my twin examples in posts 76 and 86 (pages 8 and 9) of this thread.

Free capitalism == slow milking of the masses

 

[Phenom420]

Are you in opposition to patent laws? (inventions, medicine, etc)
Copyright laws? (software, music, games, books)

There is a case to be made that laws such as these encourage innovation in an otherwise impossible situation...


EVERYTHING is impossible to sustain. Even Rome eventually fell. The question becomes...

How many generations of abuse do you allow to continue before you step in and break up a monopoly?

Without AMD, Intel would arbitrarily tax every computer with whatever nominal sum it wanted until the computer is no longer a commodity as it is now...

AMD was set up BECAUSE of concern over antitrust issues... How can you oppose this?


Then give me an example of a non-modern free market that did not devolve into cronyism...

DONT UNDERESTIMATE GREED!



GREED IS HUMAN NATURE!!!



Certainly this can be true IN SOME CASES. But you keep resorting to this as a broad argument. I've already stated that I judge the merit of every regulation based on the specific situation surrounding it. It just may happen that a law becomes obsolete and counterproductive... in this case lets review the specific case...

Also, please dont bring my intelligence into question as a means of attacking my arguments.



When I presented a real life case to you... this is what you had to say:



Once again I present to everyone on this thread the challenge to refute my real life example of an industry that needs regulation(or needed at least). Show me how govt regulation supported the industries oligarchy... YOU CANT.
Because they did that on their own...

Anyone who thinks free capitalism always works on its own please respond to my twin examples in posts 76 and 86 (pages 8 and 9) of this thread.

Free capitalism == slow milking of the masses

I sure can tell ya they have yet to come up with a real sustainable gov/biz model, even with a good plan they would fuck that up 2.