Health Care Bill Moves Forward

[FlyLikeAnEagle]

does anyone take you seriously and do you know what context is?

BTW when people having nothing intelligent/rational to say they resort to those tactics which you seem very familiar with.

Hey man if you have a thing for kids thats your deal, just not sure how smart it is announcing it on a public board.

 

[Illegal Smile]

The got their cloture vote Saturday. Paid good money for it, too. $300 million to convince Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA) to go along - by her own admission.

Now let's see it pass. Many Conservative Democrats went with the party for the procedural vote, but have repeatedly said they will not support the bill.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

Even if the troublemaker democrats fold and they get Jeffords they still need Lieberman to have 60 and he isn't going to do it unless the public option is out. This isn't a struggle over the bill anymore, it's over which amendments have to be made to get 60 votes and for sure, public option has to go.

That gets fun then because, even though I doubt they will do it, the far leftys threaten to not support a bill "without" a public option. The senators in that group will fold after holding on as long as they could, but the moveon types will be really pissed.

 

[fitch303]

Grab a dictionary, it's a book with a bunch of pages and look up "sarcasm".

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Even if the troublemaker democrats fold and they get Jeffords they still need Lieberman to have 60 and he isn't going to do it unless the public option is out. This isn't a struggle over the bill anymore, it's over which amendments have to be made to get 60 votes and for sure, public option has to go.

That gets fun then because, even though I doubt they will do it, the far leftys threaten to not support a bill "without" a public option. The senators in that group will fold after holding on as long as they could, but the moveon types will be really pissed.

True. The Moveon types will not sit still for anything less than the government option. Here is an excerpt of an email I received from Moveondotcom today:

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]We can't afford to lose the health care fight. Too many people suffer the real human cost of the status quo. And right now we're closer than we've been in decades to meaningful change that will benefit millions of Americans.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]

But we could still lose this fight. And if we do, we won't get another chance: Democrats will conclude that bold, progressive initiatives are too risky. President Obama will be forced to scale his agenda way back. And the Sarah Palin/Glenn Beck wing of the Republican Party will be on the rise headed into the 2010 and 2012 elections.[/FONT]

Talk about the politics of fear! Palin/Beck are the current boogeymen (and women) of the fringe Left.

Please note they fail to mention that the millions of Americans is 10 million, or 3% of the population.

As I wrote previously; an easy fix.

 

[Keenly]

why does no one who supports the bill care that you are REQUIRED to purchase something and if you dont you will be thrown in jail?




does the word freedom mean anything to you people anymore?


it seems that you guys want this to go through so bad you really dont care if it just guts our rights out from under us


i will not, and you should not, let the government tell you you HAVE to buy health insurance, or you will be subject to fine and or prison

thats just fucking bullshit, its called fascism

 

[ancap]

why does no one who supports the bill care that you are REQUIRED to purchase something and if you dont you will be thrown in jail?

does the word freedom mean anything to you people anymore?

it seems that you guys want this to go through so bad you really dont care if it just guts our rights out from under us

i will not, and you should not, let the government tell you you HAVE to buy health insurance, or you will be subject to fine and or prison

thats just fucking bullshit, its called fascism

I don't think people want to lose more freedom and choice, but they are willing to give up freedom for what they perceive to be the only way to achieve affordable and accessible healthcare, something all rational people want.

That's the answer to your questions. I think it's truly sad that people get lured into the trap of government "solutions", but it's a reality freedom loving people (or those actively pursuing more freedom) must face. My own neighbors are willing to sell my freedoms away, and if they can get a majority, I don't have a choice but to lay down and accept it.

 

[purplekitty7772008]

I don't think people want to lose more freedom and choice, but they are willing to give up freedom for what they perceive to be the only way to achieve affordable and accessible healthcare, something all rational people want.

That's the answer to your questions. I think it's truly sad that people get lured into the trap of government "solutions", but it's a reality freedom loving people (or those actively pursuing more freedom) must face. My own neighbors are willing to sell my freedoms away, and if they can get a majority, I don't have a choice but to lay down and accept it.

Sad isn't it.

 

[PadawanBater]

Please note they fail to mention that the millions of Americans is 10 million, or 3% of the population.

As I wrote previously; an easy fix.

Hey JO, I've been hearing statistics since the beginning that say the numbers are somewhere between 30-50 million uninsured Americans. Given it's coming from the mainstream, no doubt it's inaccurate. But I was wondering if you had a more credible source for the numbers? If it's as low as 10 million, this shit wouldn't have nearly as much support, hence the exaggeration, right?

why does no one who supports the bill care that you are REQUIRED to purchase something and if you dont you will be thrown in jail?




does the word freedom mean anything to you people anymore?


it seems that you guys want this to go through so bad you really dont care if it just guts our rights out from under us


i will not, and you should not, let the government tell you you HAVE to buy health insurance, or you will be subject to fine and or prison

thats just fucking bullshit, its called fascism

Exactly. If there were any other way, I'd support it, but requiring someone to buy something or face fines is outrageous, even if it is health care. Like I've been saying, freedom is the most important thing, even above your health.

I don't think people are actually realizing that fact for the most part, they just think ''sure, I'm in favor of free health care!", because nobody ever bothers explaining it to the majority of the population in a way everyone could understand it. Keep the majority ignorant seems to be both parties mantras. Instead of telling people what it's actually about (isn't the shit over 2,000 pages? What average person is going to read that?! That's absurd, they know that! Your average American doesn't read 1 book a YEAR) So they know that we depend on pundits and the people they put out there to explain the shit to us, hence so much goddamn confusion and uninformed people.

I don't think people want to lose more freedom and choice, but they are willing to give up freedom for what they perceive to be the only way to achieve affordable and accessible healthcare, something all rational people want.

That's the answer to your questions. I think it's truly sad that people get lured into the trap of government "solutions", but it's a reality freedom loving people (or those actively pursuing more freedom) must face. My own neighbors are willing to sell my freedoms away, and if they can get a majority, I don't have a choice but to lay down and accept it.

Never forget there are always alternative choices.

 

[ancap]

There are definitely alternative choices, but I tend to be very pessimistic about the chances of reversing the trend of government growth. I am one that believes the system must play itself out until it collapses.

 

[medicineman]

Hey JO, I've been hearing statistics since the beginning that say the numbers are somewhere between 30-50 million uninsured Americans. Given it's coming from the mainstream, no doubt it's inaccurate. But I was wondering if you had a more credible source for the numbers? If it's as low as 10 million, this shit wouldn't have nearly as much support, hence the exaggeration, right?



Exactly. If there were any other way, I'd support it, but requiring someone to buy something or face fines is outrageous, even if it is health care. Like I've been saying, freedom is the most important thing, even above your health.

I don't think people are actually realizing that fact for the most part, they just think ''sure, I'm in favor of free health care!", because nobody ever bothers explaining it to the majority of the population in a way everyone could understand it. Keep the majority ignorant seems to be both parties mantras. Instead of telling people what it's actually about (isn't the shit over 2,000 pages? What average person is going to read that?! That's absurd, they know that! Your average American doesn't read 1 book a YEAR) So they know that we depend on pundits and the people they put out there to explain the shit to us, hence so much goddamn confusion and uninformed people.



Never forget there are always alternative choices.

I have my differences with this bill, but to do nothing pretty much says, the insurance companies win. That is exactly why they need to make this bill into single payer. Damn, I'd sure like to be in the boardroom of United Health Care when that bill passed.

 

[OregonMeds]

I fight about the health care stuff with people all the time. Nobody and I mean nobody wants that mandated health care that you have to pay for, people just are dying literally for change and anything that takes us in the direction we need to go is better than nothing is the way we actually think. Most of us are actually going for single provider and anything that gets passed in the meantime is only a temporary stepping stone towards that end.

Ultimately you will not be required to buy into anything. The money should come out of all of our taxes like everything else. Nobody here has a right to opt out of taxes now even if you think you do. No difference...

 

[medicineman]

I fight about the health care stuff with people all the time. Nobody and I mean nobody wants that mandated health care that you have to pay for, people just are dying literally for change and anything that takes us in the direction we need to go is better than nothing is the way we actually think. Most of us are actually going for single provider and anything that gets passed in the meantime is only a temporary stepping stone towards that end.

Ultimately you will not be required to buy into anything. The money should come out of all of our taxes like everything else. Nobody here has a right to opt out of taxes now even if you think you do. No difference...

I agree, pay up suckers, don't get caught hiding behind the door.

 

[PadawanBater]

I pay $30 out of my check every 2 weeks for basic medical/dental coverage. I don't know how great the coverage is yet, I haven't needed a doctor. I recently got a tooth pulled, so we'll see how much money I have to pay in a few weeks. How much different would this tax be? If it would be similar to the $30 I already pay, I would say it would be a better solution than what we currently have going on too, as the government wouldn't be allowed to just drop customers from coverage because of pre existing conditions or whatever, everyone would be covered, regardless (in theory anyway). As it is now, the little guy gets screwed and doesn't have a voice. The treatment should be fair and equal for all, imo.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Hey JO, I've been hearing statistics since the beginning that say the numbers are somewhere between 30-50 million uninsured Americans. Given it's coming from the mainstream, no doubt it's inaccurate. But I was wondering if you had a more credible source for the numbers? If it's as low as 10 million, this shit wouldn't have nearly as much support, hence the exaggeration, right?

Paddy, the usually agreed upon number is 46 million. Precisely 45.7 million according to the Census Bureau, but that total includes illegal aliens (9.7 million), those who could afford to purchase it themselves (17.6 million), and those already eligible for existing programs (14 million). That leaves 10.5 million.

A 2003 Blue Cross/Blue Shield study put the number of those too poor to buy, yet not eligible for existing programs at 8.3 million.

http://spectator.org/archives/2009/03/20/the-myth-of-the-46-million

 

[medicineman]

I pay $30 out of my check every 2 weeks for basic medical/dental coverage. I don't know how great the coverage is yet, I haven't needed a doctor. I recently got a tooth pulled, so we'll see how much money I have to pay in a few weeks. How much different would this tax be? If it would be similar to the $30 I already pay, I would say it would be a better solution than what we currently have going on too, as the government wouldn't be allowed to just drop customers from coverage because of pre existing conditions or whatever, everyone would be covered, regardless (in theory anyway). As it is now, the little guy gets screwed and doesn't have a voice. The treatment should be fair and equal for all, imo.

I'll guarantee you, you have shit coverage. I'll bet the deductable is in the 2,000.00+ range, some go as high as 10,000.00 what this means is you must pay the first 2,000.00-whatever, before they pay one red cent. You'd be better off to pocket the money and save up for a trip to vegas, then bet it all on black or red, about the same returns, in fact I'm pretty sure you'd do better in Vegas. As for the tax, I havent a clue, but 120.00 a Mo. for a single dude, sounds about right.

 

[Rob Roy]

To those that support this bill. Why do you support government violence? You do know that some people will not go along with being forced to participate and they will ultimately be jailed. How is this a good thing?

 

[medicineman]

To those that support this bill. Why do you support government violence? You do know that some people will not go along with being forced to participate and they will ultimately be jailed. How is this a good thing?

It seems that ignorance is always going to jail. If one isn't smart enough to deal with this, then maybe a little jail could smarten them up. Rioting over government health care is about as stupid as I can think of. Why not riot over something that makes sense like two friken wars and 40,000 dying in the streets for lack of health care?

 

[jeffchr]

Paddy, the usually agreed upon number is 46 million. Precisely 45.7 million according to the Census Bureau, but that total includes illegal aliens (9.7 million), those who could afford to purchase it themselves (17.6 million), and those already eligible for existing programs (14 million). That leaves 10.5 million.

A 2003 Blue Cross/Blue Shield study put the number of those too poor to buy, yet not eligible for existing programs at 8.3 million.

http://spectator.org/archives/2009/03/20/the-myth-of-the-46-million

first off, it's not illegal aliens, it non-citizens. if you don't know the difference, fine.

if your saying that people over 200% of the poverty level can afford good health coverage, i suggest you try to live on 40g's a year, with a $1300 per month insurance bill.

and why aren't the folks who are "eligible for existing programs" covered? you don't say.

and as far as I'm concerned, that leaves the total back at 46 million, which is the number from the year 2005. it's gone up since then.

 

[OregonMeds]

To those that support this bill. Why do you support government violence? You do know that some people will not go along with being forced to participate and they will ultimately be jailed. How is this a good thing?

Many of the people FOR health care are already going to jail by the hundreds just to get us all (including you) taken care of. Every time someone is hauled out of a meeting, jail... Well guess what, we are also the same people who fight the oppressive police and criminal justice system. We aren't the people who created the laws which allow the government to stop public gatherings and require permits to protest. We are all the descendants of the victims of that policy whether you are white, black, pot smoker, hippies, hippies kids, etc.

We believe in and fight for the rights to stand up and protest and we fight and go to jail for you to get the same healtcare we fight to get for ourselves. If you choose to go to jail simply because you refuse to get either private or public OR A WAIVER then that's your choice, but it won't get you or us anywhere and our way will. Your way is out of stubbornness or fear or greed, our way comes from a better place.

 

[CrackerJax]

Yes, the bill moves forward as the country moves backward.

truly a proud moment.