No fillibuster for Repukes.Talks move forward

[medicineman]

So all the money that I pay in, without ever receiving any care, is going to offset the costs of those who need care? What happens when more healthy people need that care, and the government can't afford it? You don't think they are going to ration care?

No I don't, like the Insurance companies of the present, they will just raise rates. Being as they dont have to suckle a bunch of overweight, overpaid, CEOs and pay shareholders their booty, and they will have most of the 300+ million paying into it, I wouldn't worry too much about them going broke over medical, in fact, basically, they are already broke, 1.5 trillion in tax cuts to the wealthy and a trillion to wall street, two expensive wars, 700 billion to supposedly bail out main street, (I seriously doubt this) they're already broke. In fact they may be able to turn a profit from all you young guys that are young and tough, Oh yeah," youth is wasted on the young", no truer words were ever spoken.

 

[CrackerJax]

50% of the nation is into the stock market.

The govt. has helped wipe out tons of "regular" ppl's futures.

 

[Jack*Herrer420]

No I don't, like the Insurance companies of the present, they will just raise rates. Being as they dont have to suckle a bunch of overweight, overpaid, CEOs and pay shareholders their booty, and they will have most of the 300+ million paying into it, I wouldn't worry too much about them going broke over medical, in fact, basically, they are already broke, 1.5 trillion in tax cuts to the wealthy and a trillion to wall street, two expensive wars, 700 billion to supposedly bail out main street, (I seriously doubt this) they're already broke. In fact they may be able to turn a profit from all you young guys that are young and tough, Oh yeah," youth is wasted on the young", no truer words were ever spoken.

So it's ok if rates are raised, as long as it's the government doing so? The government is broke, broke as hell. Let's have the rich pay all the taxes, even though it is they who create jobs for the rest of us.

 

[medicineman]

So it's ok if rates are raised, as long as it's the government doing so? The government is broke, broke as hell. Let's have the rich pay all the taxes, even though it is they who create jobs for the rest of us.

Tell me o wise one, Just how many jobs did the big tax giveaway to the rich produce, come on now, seems we've been hemoraging jobs for some while now, no?

 

[Jack*Herrer420]

Tell me o wise one, Just how many jobs did the big tax giveaway to the rich produce, come on now, seems we've been hemoraging jobs for some while now, no?

I was completely against the bailout, but I don't see how you can be against that and for this government spending.

 

[SmokeyMcChokey]

arent we tired of this argument yet? what happens happens how about we all do something about instead of moanig and groaning, or rubbing it in peoples faces. obiously no one is going to be swayed into our line of thinking. why not attempt to educate the not so deadset rather than argue endlessly with some one who wont change their views?

 

[OregonMeds]

So it's ok if rates are raised, as long as it's the government doing so? The government is broke, broke as hell. Let's have the rich pay all the taxes, even though it is they who create jobs for the rest of us.

I don't know about the rest of you but I don't know too many people who like our tax system either, so after healthcare lets fix that. Flat tax, everyone pays it, can't get out of it, no deductions. The only ones who wouldn't pay could be those so poor they're under the minimum. No corporate breaks at any level, no lobbyists, no bribes called campain funds. No owing taxes either. It comes out before you get it and never a bill afterward.

Sleek, streamlined, efficient, stable, simple.


Oh no you'll say, that would ruin an entire industry. If we removed all that unnecessary complicatedness then what would we do?

I don't know, how about move the fuck on and find something worth doing. Cut everyones normal workweek to 30 hours so more people have jobs with the same amount of work. We all work too much anyway.

Many things in this nation need to be changed and many things are good. We all just don't agree on which apparently. Doesn't mean we can't try new things and if those fail undo it.

At least try...

It's like you're all scared once they have control we can't take it away. We can.

 

[Jack*Herrer420]

I believe we should lower the tax rate on everybody, and pass a law where government can't spend more than it takes in. If government was a private industry, it would have gone under a long time ago.

 

[SmokeyMcChokey]

I don't know about the rest of you but I don't know too many people who like our tax system either, so after healthcare lets fix that. Flat tax, everyone pays it, can't get out of it, no deductions. The only ones who wouldn't pay could be those so poor they're under the minimum. No corporate breaks at any level, no lobbyists, no bribes called campain funds. No owing taxes either. It comes out before you get it and never a bill afterward.

Sleek, streamlined, efficient, stable, simple.


Oh no you'll say, that would ruin an entire industry. If we removed all that unnecessary complicatedness then what would we do?

I don't know, how about move the fuck on and find something worth doing. Cut everyones normal workweek to 30 hours so more people have jobs with the same amount of work. We all work too much anyway.

Many things in this nation need to be changed and many things are good. We all just don't agree on which apparently. Doesn't mean we can't try new things and if those fail undo it.

At least try...

It's like you're all scared once they have control we can't take it away. We can.

you shoould read up on the fair tax after your done rambling about healthcare. maybe the dems could push through a sensible bill

 

[medicineman]

I don't know about the rest of you but I don't know too many people who like our tax system either, so after healthcare lets fix that. Flat tax, everyone pays it, can't get out of it, no deductions. The only ones who wouldn't pay could be those so poor they're under the minimum. No corporate breaks at any level, no lobbyists, no bribes called campain funds. No owing taxes either. It comes out before you get it and never a bill afterward.

Sleek, streamlined, efficient, stable, simple.


Oh no you'll say, that would ruin an entire industry. If we removed all that unnecessary complicatedness then what would we do?

I don't know, how about move the fuck on and find something worth doing. Cut everyones normal workweek to 30 hours so more people have jobs with the same amount of work. We all work too much anyway.

Many things in this nation need to be changed and many things are good. We all just don't agree on which apparently. Doesn't mean we can't try new things and if those fail undo it.

At least try...

It's like you're all scared once they have control we can't take it away. We can.

I don't know what the cutoff is, but If they removed the cap on SS deductions, that would fix SS. If they disalowed rich people from collecting, that would also help. Say a guy is collecting 200K+ in retirement, would he actually need that 1700.00 in SS? Yeah I know he paid all his working life, so did I and I sure as hell aint getting 200K retirement. There needs to be a rationality about wealth, how much is enough. Hey, I'm pretty lenient, I think a 400K cap on income would not cause too much hardship on a family of 4, Might have to give up those million dollar toys, but what the hey, maybe that excess could provide jobs and housing for some lower down the ladder................out

 

[Mindmelted]

304 million in the usa
50 million without insurance
254 million with insurance
Acceptable numbers

 

[Jack*Herrer420]

I don't know what the cutoff is, but If they removed the cap on SS deductions, that would fix SS. If they disalowed rich people from collecting, that would also help. Say a guy is collecting 200K+ in retirement, would he actually need that 1700.00 in SS? Yeah I know he paid all his working life, so did I and I sure as hell aint getting 200K retirement. There needs to be a rationality about wealth, how much is enough. Hey, I'm pretty lenient, I think a 400K cap on income would not cause too much hardship on a family of 4, Might have to give up those million dollar toys, but what the hey, maybe that excess could provide jobs and housing for some lower down the ladder................out

Stated like a true socialist. You should just come out of the closet already. You believe you have the right to tell someone when their making too much money? It's not like they worked their whole life, and were successful. If that happened, what incentive would there be to work hard and do something good. The poor would stop working because they know they don't have to work, and they would still be ok. The rich would stop working because there would be no need to make money when it's all being taken anyways. Seriously, what's wrong with you. Do you see that constitutional in any way? I don't even think I can take you seriously anymore.

 

[OregonMeds]

I don't know what the cutoff is, but If they removed the cap on SS deductions, that would fix SS. If they disalowed rich people from collecting, that would also help. Say a guy is collecting 200K+ in retirement, would he actually need that 1700.00 in SS? Yeah I know he paid all his working life, so did I and I sure as hell aint getting 200K retirement. There needs to be a rationality about wealth, how much is enough. Hey, I'm pretty lenient, I think a 400K cap on income would not cause too much hardship on a family of 4, Might have to give up those million dollar toys, but what the hey, maybe that excess could provide jobs and housing for some lower down the ladder................out

I dont agree with capping anyones income like that, people would just leave the country but those at certain levels should certainly face a higher flat tax than the rest of us.

There wouldn't even be a need for most people to file tax forms every year again, imagine that. Only those that ran their own business or received money outside their job large enough to report it would need to do anything tax wise anymore. So simple.

A lot of what goes on in this country is busy work or downright destructive work just designed to create an industry or employ more people and could be done away with easily. The war on drugs and it's resulting DEA monstrosity for example.... Obviously that has to change right? And once weed is legal they loose 90% of their reason to exist. A whole industry lost, but one who's time has come. Cobblers industry died with sneakers. Horse buggy industry died with cars. Times change, things change, you'll adjust.

 

[Jack*Herrer420]

I dont agree with capping anyones income like that, people would just leave the country but those at certain levels should certainly face a higher flat tax than the rest of us.

There wouldn't even be a need for most people to file tax forms every year again, imagine that. Only those that ran their own business or received money outside their job large enough to report it would need to do anything tax wise anymore. So simple.

A lot of what goes on in this country is busy work or downright destructive work just designed to create an industry or employ more people and could be done away with easily. The war on drugs and it's resulting DEA monstrosity for example.... Obviously that has to change right? And once weed is legal they loose 90% of their reason to exist. A whole industry lost, but one who's time has come. Cobblers industry died with sneakers. Horse buggy industry died with cars. Times change, things change, you'll adjust.

I'll have to agree, can you imagine how much better our tax system would be without the irs.

 

[CrackerJax]

Ppl are already leaving. Money is certainly fleeing and investments are no longer pouring in from other countries.

The easiest way for the govt. to take in more tax revenue ... is to lower tax rates across the board. Works EVERY time.

But we are now in a time where politics trump your future.

A proud moment in our history, truly.

 

[TheBlazehero]

I think removing the cap on SS tax for individuals is a good idea, wouldn't be so great for the employer match part. That is not any more socialist than having SS in the first place. In fact, it's less socialist because everybody is paying their share...not just their share until $102,000 of wages.

This 'healthcare' bill is a joke. To the people saying why a 2,000 page piece of legislation, you are right on. Dr. Paul's bill is like 3 or 4 pages and is pretty much saying let Americans pay for their health care with pre tax dollars. Carry insurance for major medical problems like it used to be. We need lessssss regulation, not more. Stop drinking Obama's kool-aid. Just because he kind of looks like and talks like Morgan Freeman doesn't mean we should let him do whatever he wants to with the country. Actually, I feel like he is kind of a pawn. Anyway, I don't want the government involved with my body and I think it is hypocritical to say you believe in the freedom of the individual to do what he wants to his body (ie smoke weed, do drugs, whatever) but that other people should have to pay for their health care. The bottom line is that government programs suck balls and breed incompetence and corruption and more bureaucracy.

Think of it as a Hollywood trailer: From the people who brought you: the illegal war in the middle east, the social security debacle, the Patriot Act, the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, mass shortages of H1N1 shots, the 2004 election, the Federal Reserve, the war on drugs, and the 'stimulus' package now comes the most expensive piece of legislature in the history of the United States......

Please people don't listen to the hype! When is it ever a good idea to turn yourselves over to the government? Little by little we are letting them tear up our constitutional protections of freedom. We got the F out of Europe, now we want back in??? The US is the tits, we just need to stop these retarded wars and stop letting the federal government infringe on our private lives. Think about walking into a room of 300 lawyers!!!!!!!!! You honestly trust these people to get it right and to serve your best interests?

If you still aren't convinced the government can't do shit, check out this congress testimony about welfare: http://www.cato.org/testimony/ct-ta3-9.html
It pretty much talks about how bad our welfare system is. Please no more incompetence!

 

[OregonMeds]

I think removing the cap on SS tax for individuals is a good idea, wouldn't be so great for the employer match part. That is not any more socialist than having SS in the first place. In fact, it's less socialist because everybody is paying their share...not just their share until $102,000 of wages.

This 'healthcare' bill is a joke. To the people saying why a 2,000 page piece of legislation, you are right on. Dr. Paul's bill is like 3 or 4 pages and is pretty much saying let Americans pay for their health care with pre tax dollars. Carry insurance for major medical problems like it used to be. We need lessssss regulation, not more. Stop drinking Obama's kool-aid. Just because he kind of looks like and talks like Morgan Freeman doesn't mean we should let him do whatever he wants to with the country. Actually, I feel like he is kind of a pawn. Anyway, I don't want the government involved with my body and I think it is hypocritical to say you believe in the freedom of the individual to do what he wants to his body (ie smoke weed, do drugs, whatever) but that other people should have to pay for their health care. The bottom line is that government programs suck balls and breed incompetence and corruption and more bureaucracy.

Think of it as a Hollywood trailer: From the people who brought you: the illegal war in the middle east, the social security debacle, the Patriot Act, the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, mass shortages of H1N1 shots, the 2004 election, the Federal Reserve, the war on drugs, and the 'stimulus' package now comes the most expensive piece of legislature in the history of the United States......

Please people don't listen to the hype! When is it ever a good idea to turn yourselves over to the government? Little by little we are letting them tear up our constitutional protections of freedom. We got the F out of Europe, now we want back in??? The US is the tits, we just need to stop these retarded wars and stop letting the federal government infringe on our private lives. Think about walking into a room of 300 lawyers!!!!!!!!! You honestly trust these people to get it right and to serve your best interests?

If you still aren't convinced the government can't do shit, check out this congress testimony about welfare: http://www.cato.org/testimony/ct-ta3-9.html
It pretty much talks about how bad our welfare system is. Please no more incompetence!

All the things you mention have one thing in common. We the people let it happen and didn't stop it or do anything about it. Your excuse basically boils down to the idea we are incapable and incompetent of doing any better.

Great stance.

 

[londonfog]

On a little side note ...if you voted for Bush you should have no say on whats going on now...You are part of the problem..JMHO

 

[CrackerJax]

I think removing the cap on SS tax for individuals is a good idea, wouldn't be so great for the employer match part. That is not any more socialist than having SS in the first place. In fact, it's less socialist because everybody is paying their share...not just their share until $102,000 of wages.

This 'healthcare' bill is a joke. To the people saying why a 2,000 page piece of legislation, you are right on. Dr. Paul's bill is like 3 or 4 pages and is pretty much saying let Americans pay for their health care with pre tax dollars. Carry insurance for major medical problems like it used to be. We need lessssss regulation, not more. Stop drinking Obama's kool-aid. Just because he kind of looks like and talks like Morgan Freeman doesn't mean we should let him do whatever he wants to with the country. Actually, I feel like he is kind of a pawn. Anyway, I don't want the government involved with my body and I think it is hypocritical to say you believe in the freedom of the individual to do what he wants to his body (ie smoke weed, do drugs, whatever) but that other people should have to pay for their health care. The bottom line is that government programs suck balls and breed incompetence and corruption and more bureaucracy.

Think of it as a Hollywood trailer: From the people who brought you: the illegal war in the middle east, the social security debacle, the Patriot Act, the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, mass shortages of H1N1 shots, the 2004 election, the Federal Reserve, the war on drugs, and the 'stimulus' package now comes the most expensive piece of legislature in the history of the United States......

Please people don't listen to the hype! When is it ever a good idea to turn yourselves over to the government? Little by little we are letting them tear up our constitutional protections of freedom. We got the F out of Europe, now we want back in??? The US is the tits, we just need to stop these retarded wars and stop letting the federal government infringe on our private lives. Think about walking into a room of 300 lawyers!!!!!!!!! You honestly trust these people to get it right and to serve your best interests?

If you still aren't convinced the government can't do shit, check out this congress testimony about welfare: http://www.cato.org/testimony/ct-ta3-9.html
It pretty much talks about how bad our welfare system is. Please no more incompetence!

Just dump SS.... it's a horrific program which basically steals ppl's money and sets up a Govt. Ponzi scheme.

Send me ur cash, and I will give you a 3% return on ur money. That's a +50% increase by the way, a no brainer.

Oh, and I'll go one better than the govt. Ponzi in place now. If you die, I'll still pay out ur full due to ur family (the govt. keeps it now).

 

[Mcgician]

Wow is this a terrible analogy or what, and notice the "car insurance" argument is the only one they can use, because in this country we DON'T force individuals to buy services they don't want.

My 22 yr old son lives in the DC metro area and NO he doesn't own a car. He's a bit of a "green" person and uses public transportation and a bike for his needs, just like many people do in congested metro areas. Using your analogy, he would be forced to buy car insurance, despite not owning or even wanting to own a car. Strike one of your awful analogy.

Also, according to your analogy if he did buy a car, say one that was recently wrecked, he could go to GEICO, demand coverage AND force them to fix the wrecked vehicle at the outset of his coverage. Strike Two.

Strike three of your analogy is the fact that driving a motor vehicle in this or any other country is a privilege not a right. Imposing insurance on a privilege is perfectly acceptable and few people would argue against it. However, in this case the government is going to force individuals to purchase health insurance simply because they EXIST. The last time I checked, we had a RIGHT to exist. Or would you actually like to make the argument we no longer have a right to exist?

If you open the door for the government to start demanding payment, taxes, insurance coverage for simply existing, where does it end? There is NO end, that's why we don't allow it. Sure, everybody should have health insurance, but we don't give our government the power to impose that on our citizens by force.

It's an extremely slippery slope. If you allow greedy, powerhungry, fallible human beings with agendas (we call them government for short) to enact UNCONSTITUTIONAL legislation, they will do so again and again, simply by using their ability to pass this legislation as an example of their legal right to do so in the future.

Once you stop restricting them with the Constitution, they can take away ANYTHING they want to, it truly does become an unimportant document at that point. Which is pretty scary since the whole damn thing was written to protect us from the government they were creating. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting this is the first time this has happened, but the fact we are even at this point is because of all the previous transgressions on the Constitution. Where the hell does it say the government can prevent us from growing a plant? They gained that ability because earlier infringements were not stopped in their tracks. And I'm sure there were people screaming against all of it as it was happening. This is just the latest transgression.

Posts like these are why I even bother still clicking on political threads. Absolutely 100% on the money!! God, I wish I wasn't so mired in long hours at work so that I could actually participate in a worthwhile way to these types of threads. Couldn't have said it better myself!