OregonMeds
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't agree to giving up on the health care plan but I do agree with what Muyloco said also.
No fillibuster for Repukes.Talks move forward
- Thread starter londonfog
- Start date
CrackerJax
New Member
The best thing is to completely throw that monstrosity in Congress away and start from scratch.
There are some very simple ways to cut costs in the private sector, and the fact that the Dem's won't even consider it is enough to know it's not really about providing quality health care, it's about controlling health care, and us right along with it.
There are some very simple ways to cut costs in the private sector, and the fact that the Dem's won't even consider it is enough to know it's not really about providing quality health care, it's about controlling health care, and us right along with it.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
CrackerJax
New Member
Exactly..... it's not about actually helping us all out, it's about concentrating federal power over the USA citizens.
abe23
Active Member
Right, so having the government introduce sweeping legislation that would give state and federal governments some modest powers to regulate healthcare markets in order to make it accessible to all americans is a grab for power, huh?
How about reserving themselves the right to listen to your phone calls without court oversight or detaining people indefinitely without trial? Personally, I'm more worried about that stuff than some law that forces me to buy health insurance so that everyone can get covered and includes a healthcare plan that's administered by the federal government.
Also, quick newsflash for all the healthcare reform haters: THE DEMOCRATS WON THE ELECTION LAST YEAR....YOUR GUY LOST! Whether you like it or not, Obama and the congressional dems have a pretty clear mandate to go ahead and reform healthcare. During the election, john mccain and the republicans had their own proposal for healthcare reform and they lost....america wants universal healthcare. By opposing obama at every move instead of trying to work with congressional dems to get compromises and concessions, the republicans in the house and senate are letting down they're constituents on top making themselves look like moronic hypocrites.
I have a feeling congressional republicans are going to take another beating in 2010 if they keep this up, especially with all the crazies and teabaggers pushing social conservatives in the primaries. The good news is we might actually see some more progress on things including someday removing federal penalties for cannabis offenses and leaving the issue up to the states, which should make most people reading this happy....
I'm actually sad that there isn't a real choice in our political system at the moment. I'm not a democrat but i'm forced to vote for them because the republicans have become the party of stupidity and nay-saying. How can i vote for the people who brought us a trillion-dollar war, taxcuts for rich people, torture, hurricane katrina, barely averted economic meltdown, more drug war etc. especially when all they do now is snipe at the guy trying to fix their mess. This is what you guys gave us for 8 years, so now we want to try something different if you don't mind...
CrackerJax
New Member
So they listen to ur phone calls about health care?
i can see why ur so concerned....
i can see why ur so concerned....
SmokeyMcChokey
Well-Known Member
i would agree with that except fo the fact that the entire industry is funded with tax dollars and it SHOULD be done away with. We already have the FBI. What is one more national police force ( AKA Gustapo.)
Besides if the DEA has a purpose it should be to help control serious drugs and preventing cartels. Not chasing down johnny taxpayer for growing 5 plants for recreational use...
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
You are correct about it being sweeping, but it is anything but modest.
2,074 pages.
Have you, or anyone you know, ever been eavesdropped by the Feds per the Patriot Act?
If you are referring to Osama bin Lopez, I agree with you. He should not have been held illegally, I criticized it then as I do now. And the administration finally relented on that case.
Then why not get it over with? It is Conservative and Moderate Democrats holding up this wagon train, not the Republicans. As you say, the Democrats won.
You had better check your numbers again. The latest polling shows 56% of Americans opposed.
The Republicans are hypocritical on this issue, no question. After all it was a Republican Congress and a Republican President who enacted the Medicare Prescription Drug entitlement in 2003. It's funny how Democrats conveniently forget that when they excoriate ole Dubya. He was carrying their water. Good to see that at least the hypocrisy is nonpartisan.
"Teabaggers?" LOL! It amazes me how Progressives have no problem employing anti-homosexual hate-speech when it suits them. What's next? Do you plan on calling the protesters the N-word, too?
There's going to be a drubbing in 2010 all right. It's shaping up to be quite a humiliation for the Chosen One.
Tell me, please! How did the Republicans cause Hurricane Katrina?
CrackerJax
New Member
PPl are easily fooled ... 
SmokeyMcChokey
Well-Known Member
Correction. America's poor and lazy want universal healthcare. But it ok you can have a single payer system then enjoy the congressional board, or even worse an executive agency, that decides whether you are going to get treatment or not. Hey if its single payer you want than its single payer you get. We have already seen that no politician will listen to middle america, so why shouldnt obama only listen to the poor. It makes for a heartfelt kushy image for the President. Any one who disagrees is a greedy cold ass hole for wanting to keep what they worked so hard for. However i say Paris Hilton should have to take us all out to dinner. I have a right to food, why not make a stuck up rich person pay for it!
SmokeyMcChokey
Well-Known Member
Also note the Tenth amendment, granting all rights not prohibited by or granted to the fed in the constitution. I would assume this means regulation of healthcare and insurance. Maybe we should scrap the bill and start on a local basis. That way at least they can say they tried to listen to the constitution instead of pissing on the bill of rights.
SmokeyMcChokey
Well-Known Member
Marxism at its finest...
abe23
Active Member
No, I'm doing ok for myself financially and I'm only lazy when very high, but i don't think it's right that people have to go broke or bankrupt because they can't afford health insurance. universal coverage does not mean single payer. I think we can get figure out a system where government and the market work together to make sure that everyone is covered and costs are kept down. Other countries can do it, so can we. As things stand right now, your health insurance insurance company decides whether you get treatment or not. The extra proportion we spend on healthcare compared to other developed countries is not going towards better care, but rather into profits and overhead of the insurance companies. They're also exempt from anti-trust laws and have monopolies on the market in many parts of the country.
The reason this was a huge issue in the election is that people are fed up with the current system and wanted someone to fix it. So again, obama won and that's why this bill is going to pass and we will have a system of universal healthcare coverage before long. Just wait 'til you see what he does during his second term....
Oh and paris hilton should totally take me out to dinner, get me high and then give me head. I have absolutely no objection to that...
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
While you're at it abe23, kindly explain:
How the Republicans brought us a war we did not start? Remember 9/11? Or are you a 'truther,' too?
How tax cuts for everybody equals 'taxcuts for rich people' only?
How enhanced interrogation techniques can be construed as 'torture?' Is torture purely a Republican invention? Did it only appear during the previous administration?
A barely averted economic meltdown? Well, thanks to the insane policies of the Messiah, the meltdown will most assuredly not be averted.
How the Republicans brought us a war we did not start? Remember 9/11? Or are you a 'truther,' too?
How tax cuts for everybody equals 'taxcuts for rich people' only?
How enhanced interrogation techniques can be construed as 'torture?' Is torture purely a Republican invention? Did it only appear during the previous administration?
A barely averted economic meltdown? Well, thanks to the insane policies of the Messiah, the meltdown will most assuredly not be averted.
abe23
Active Member
I don't think I've been investigated by the feds, but I know that all the data going in and out of the country was tapped into wholesale and all that information then got sifted through for information on terrorism....
I was really referring to the way the majority of terrorism suspects were handled by the bush administration with a total disregard and contempt for own laws as well international ones. I'm referring to gitmo, rendition and the whole tactic of trying to detain people indefinitely without the right to habeus corpus and access to the courts, which is unprecedented in american history. Remember that it was the courts that forced the previous administration to bring charges against these people.
Election > Gallup Poll. Sorry, but that's just the way our system works.
The republicans are acting like petulant children and not really offering any alternatives so yes, the more conservative democrats are doing their job for them. That's fine with me. They should be getting it over with within the next few months, methinks.
I haven't forgotten about the medicare part d, it's just that i consider that to be one of his accomplishments. I also didn't mention that he committed 50$bn of our money to fighting aids in africa...Bush did some things right, obviously. But he did some things wrong. Some really, really big things. And something gives me the feeling you weren't giving him as much shit as your as your giving obama.
Yes, teabaggers. I even occasionally say "that's totally gay" about things. I also know a few gay people and if they want to get married and have the same rights you and I have, that's fine by me.
I'll actually give you that one though. I should have said tea party protesters. My bad.
Also, why the hell would I call the protesters 'the n-word' (nigger, I presume?) They're almost all white, that doesn't make any sense. Also, I'm not a racist and don't call people that. I'm just poking fun at the silliness of this tea party movement, which is not based on reality but rather a strange alternate reality concocted by radio talkshow hosts...
Obviously the republicans didn't cause the hurricane, but they messed up pretty much every step in preventing and mitigating a serious disaster.
abe23
Active Member
Oooooh, this is fun.
I'm talking about iraq mostly when i say trillion-dollar war. Not directly related to terrorism and probably not the best place to focus our military might. Again they obviously did some things right, but i don't invading iraq was one of them. Go ask people over there what they think. Obviously life is better for some people over there today, but the american taxpayer has yet to see anything worth mentioning for the trillion dollars spent on that war (again billion dollar pallets disappearing...) whereas healthcare reform would benefit people as soon as the law passes into effect.
The tax-cuts were much more interesting for the wealthy, everyone knows that. I got a couple of hundred bucks at the time, which I wasn't unhappy about but considering what that did to the budget and what little good it did for the economy, I don't really think that was money well spent either. It seems to bother you more that democrats are spending money on 'democrat' stuff rather than the principle of spending money....just saying.
Yes, flying people to lithuania to waterboard them and perform other 'enhanced interrogation' was something that was invented by the previous administration, especially the vice-presidents office. All republicans. I don't really think it's a judgement on whether or not it's torture. It's wrong and we don't do shit like that. There's a reason it wasn't done on american soil or even at gitmo. It's illegal. And if you don't think it's wrong, why don't we do it to get confessions from murderers or child-rapists...?
Do you remember what was going on last year? It seriously looked like shit was going to come collapsing on us and here we are with positive gdp growth this quarter. Unless you really are a partisan hack, you have to give credit where credit is due..
medicineman
New Member
So, you're blind in one eye and can't see well out of the other, eh. The Republicans/Neo-Cons did start a war with the wrong country, killed a sitting president, (Ain't that against world laws?), gave 1.5 trillion in tax cuts to the rich, (Capital gains cuts mostly, and that is expresly for the rich.), did give wall street a billion or so in bailouts, (Bonus money) and pretty much fuck the economy to the point where it is still hemoraging jobs and capital. Uhhhh, I guess you missed all that, eh? 2 sides to every story, John.
TheBlazehero
Active Member
medicineman, I think you are missing the point. It doesn't matter who started what, it's about making the right policies...righting the ship. This administration is pushing us further into oblivion. Bush and his cohorts should have been arrested, tried, and punished for their war crimes. Secondly, there should have never been a war in Iraq and there shouldn't be one now. We need to pull our troops out and stop the Military Industrial Complex from growing. Why do we have troops in 147 countries and 10 territories around the world? Our founding fathers warned us of these interventionist problems!
We have not been operating under a true capitalist economy since 1913 when the Federal Reserve was created. And then FDR (contrary to popular opinion, one of the WORST presidents of all time) took us off the gold standard and expanded government which bred corruption, political favoritism, corporatism, militarism, and yes a form of socialism. The problem is, we keep printing more and more money, devaluing the dollar. That means we have less purchasing power. The more money created, the more it hurts the poor. The minimum wage hurts the poor. Welfare hurts the poor. Government spending hurts the poor. These things might seem counterintuitive, but if you know anything about economics, they are not. Wealth can not be created by taking from one and giving it to another, especially when the money has to pass through so many hands before it gets to its final destination. People do not have a right to anybody else's services and presuming otherwise is ignorance.
We have not been operating under a true capitalist economy since 1913 when the Federal Reserve was created. And then FDR (contrary to popular opinion, one of the WORST presidents of all time) took us off the gold standard and expanded government which bred corruption, political favoritism, corporatism, militarism, and yes a form of socialism. The problem is, we keep printing more and more money, devaluing the dollar. That means we have less purchasing power. The more money created, the more it hurts the poor. The minimum wage hurts the poor. Welfare hurts the poor. Government spending hurts the poor. These things might seem counterintuitive, but if you know anything about economics, they are not. Wealth can not be created by taking from one and giving it to another, especially when the money has to pass through so many hands before it gets to its final destination. People do not have a right to anybody else's services and presuming otherwise is ignorance.
TheBlazehero
Active Member
I never said we are incapable or incompetent. I think the opposite. We need to unleash the giants within ourselves and take back our great country which was founded on freedom for individuals and freedom from tyranny. When the American people decide enough is enough, there will be a change. However, the more freedom we give away, the harder it will become.
It's hard to listen to anybody in government because they talk in circles all the time. We, the people, need to be empowered. We are currently empowering big government. If I was going to blame anyone, it'd be boring US History teachers.
CrackerJax
New Member
Med man need to update his ... meds.
Iraq was not illegal. Period at the end of that sentence. We killed no sitting President, his own ppl did.
razor sharp.
Iraq was not illegal. Period at the end of that sentence. We killed no sitting President, his own ppl did.
razor sharp.