Kucinich Needs Your Support NOW!

[medicineman]

The [SIZE=-1]demagogy[/SIZE] is the proof in the pudding as far as I am concerned. Any candidate that doesn't have the track record that matches their current presidential platform bid is suspect, highly suspect...

Well, this about covers them all, except, Obama, Paul and possibly Biden come to mind, in fact, the more I see about Joe, the more I like him. He certainly has the tenure to hold office, and his tri-fecta plan for Iraq may just work. I doubt he has a chance anyway. I watched Chris Mathews grill Obama and he held up pretty well against old speeches. Thats the thing with instant replay, you are held accountable for your words, unless of course, you are on the Bush program. As for paul, well I'd say his voting record speaks volumns. He voted against almost every spending bill before congress.

 

[GrowRebel]

Back to name calling again. Which means you can't make an intelligent argument. How ignorant. How sad.

Which, by the way, you can't follow links (I knew that would be hard for you). Limbaugh's comments were about an Associated Press story related to Kucinich, and it was linked. So, to you I suppose this means Limbaugh, The AP, and I have conspired to thwart your candidates chances?

I know you have trouble with reading comprehension, but, I voiced no opinions in my last post. I only stated the facts. If a foreign national is found on US soil, with a weapon, they have NO rights under US law. They could be executed on the spot. This has happened for 200 years in our country. Does this fact somehow tie into your Limbaugh, AP, and mockingbird conspiracy theory?

I call them as I see them ... if you can take the heat get out of the kitchen.

You are the one that is sad ... all you have done is repeat propaganda ... what your intelligence is limited to ... nothing more ... except for making excuses for war criminals to kill hundreds of thousand of people due to profit and power.

What a chump you an all the others who believe in the fear that "they are out to get up" OMG run! Hide! Wow ... there really is a sucker born every minute!

Ah and there it ... the bushies euphemism for disregarding the truth ... the ole "conspiracy theory".

Ha ha.... looks whos talking about reading comprehension and intelligence ... another bushie trait ... to project their own flaws to others ... just like their worthless leader.

Well looks like we got another brownshirt on the board. Yeah ... I called you a name ... deal with it or put me on ignore ... makes no difference to me.

 

[mockingbird131313]

I call them as I see them ... if you can take the heat get out of the kitchen.

You are the one that is sad ... all you have done is repeat propaganda ... what your intelligence is limited to ... nothing more ... except for making excuses for war criminals to kill hundreds of thousand of people due to profit and power.

What a chump you an all the others who believe in the fear that "they are out to get up" OMG run! Hide! Wow ... there really is a sucker born every minute!

Ah and there it ... the bushies euphemism for disregarding the truth ... the ole "conspiracy theory".

Ha ha.... looks whos talking about reading comprehension and intelligence ... another bushie trait ... to project their own flaws to others ... just like their worthless leader.

Well looks like we got another brownshirt on the board. Yeah ... I called you a name ... deal with it or put me on ignore ... makes no difference to me.

Ignore you? No way would I do that because you are an amazing spectacle of hatred and ignorance. You are prized commodity. An example of the lowest common denominator in society.

As for your buddy Kucinich, place a bet with a bookie in Vegas. You'll get 200 -1 odds. He is beyond dark horse status. He is the only candidate at present that you could call the long-shot from Hell.

Oh, by the way, have you ever written a complete sentence, or did you drop out before they taught that in school?

Rant on, soma of the rest of us are having a good time watching.
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[mockingbird131313]

The [SIZE=-1]demagogy[/SIZE] is the proof in the pudding as far as I am concerned. Any candidate that doesn't have the track record that matches their current presidential platform bid is suspect, highly suspect...

Well, this about covers them all, except, Obama, Paul and possibly Biden come to mind, in fact, the more I see about Joe, the more I like him. He certainly has the tenure to hold office, and his tri-fecta plan for Iraq may just work. I doubt he has a chance anyway. I watched Chris Mathews grill Obama and he held up pretty well against old speeches. Thats the thing with instant replay, you are held accountable for your words, unless of course, you are on the Bush program. As for paul, well I'd say his voting record speaks volumns. He voted against almost every spending bill before congress.

The only mud that ever stuck to Joe was that plagerism thing. Most in Congress have done MUCH worse. Also, I think he has done a yoeman's job most of his political career. As you say, every time I have seen him interviewed, he was impressive.

Besides demogogy, it troubles me that many of these candidates have done little outside of public office. Really good career people stay in their career path; if for no other reason, the fact that they do not wish the invasion of their privacy.

Among democrats, Joe Biden is the best at this point. We still have 8 months of primaries to look at. Remember the 3rd quarter melt down of Howard Dean?

 

[GrowRebel]

Ignore you? No way would I do that because you are an amazing spectacle of hatred and ignorance. You are prized commodity. An example of the lowest common denominator in society.

As for your buddy Kucinich, place a bet with a bookie in Vegas. You'll get 200 -1 odds. He is beyond dark horse status. He is the only candidate at present that you could call the long-shot from Hell.

Oh, by the way, have you ever written a complete sentence, or did you drop out before they taught that in school?

Rant on, soma of the rest of us are having a good time watching.
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Again ... like a typical bushie ... trying to project your own short comings on others. Yeah ... I got a lot of contempt for war criminals and the brownshirts like you that support them. You're just history repeating itself ...

It is YOU that is the lowest common in any society ... one who condones the killing of hundreds of thousands, torture, cover-ups, lies. Invading sovereign nations ... stealing elections ... private military, circumventing the law ... breaking the laws ... trashing the constitution ... the bill of rights ... outing a CIA agent ... firing true patriots ... ect and so on ... yeah watch this amazing spectacle call you out on your browshirt ways.

The only reason my boy Kucinich is a dark horse is because the corporations control the elections and tell brownshirts like you who's in the lead and who's electable and who to vote for ... what would you do without them eh?

I don't give a damn whether or not Kucinich can win. I vote for who I think will be good for the country ... not because the MSM told me who can be elected.

... oh and by the way ... you can't talk to bushies in complete sentences ... it tends to confuse them.

Why, of course others are having a good time watching ... and you are making it all possible. Thanks

 

[towlie]

The thing that gets me the most is his hypocrisy. He condemns the republicans for bad behavior and then will stand on the floor of Congress and do same stunts, he has just condemned.

I totally agree. I however find his hypocrisy far less sinister because he’s got an entirely over inflated ego (just like every douche bag that thinks he deserves to be the most powerful man in the world)... Honestly... His hubris glows like a light-up garden gnome. It’s like meeting the metaphorical guy who really doesn’t think his shit smells and noticing he’s soiled his pants… I guess I feel pity for the dude... but <sigh>... I like him better than any other Democratic candidate... Oh fuqqq... (spoken like Droopy.)

For instance, when he claims that the levy breaks in New Orleans is the fault of "the governement" he was saying the Bush government failed.

You mean some politician is exploiting a national tragedy at the expense of George W. Bush??? The horror! I now feel enough pity to move G.W. up just behind the cereal rapist getting buggered in prison.

Finally, Kucinich is a communist. His own web sites read like the Manifesto. That is sufficient proof to support my allegation. I wish someone around here could prove to me that Dennis the Menace was not a communist.

I’m assuming from Medicineman’s avatar that he could respond to this better but...

You mean Karl Marx The Manifesto of the Communist Party? Well... You had me at hello... Yes! You will certainly convince me that if it reads just like The Manifesto then he is most definitely a Communist. But really if that was the case, don’t you think Tim Russert would have said “Hey. We’ll get to that whole Shirley Maclain UFO bullshit in a minute, but first I want to talk to you about something we found on your webpage. That part about you wanting to dissolve all private ownership of farming, mining and industry into a government run totalitarian regime... How does that not make you a Communist?”

A traditional definition of communism might be taken to mean that one subscribes to the 10 Planks offered in Marx’ Manifesto. Agreement with only some however does not make you a communist. The US as well as all civilized nations have adopted some of them such as the abolition of child factory labor or the right to a free education for all children in public schools. Those of course hardly make one a communist.

Funny thing is this, Kucinich supporters rail at the suggestion that the Congressman is a communist. But most will say Bush or Cheney are fascist. From where I sit, both arguements look pretty well reasoned.

I’m guilty of calling G.W. a fascist. But I don’t mean it. Just like when The Dude was listening to some whale sounds and roasting up some candles and a fatty, then those three German weirdo’s Franz, Uli, & Flea throw their mammal in the bathtub... or when your president rolls his eyes and shrugs indifferently when asked as to how many Iraqi civilians he thinks have died as the result of US bombing. The only proper response is “NICE FERRET YOU FUCKING FASCIST!!!”

If you’re still going to hold on to this argument then you only have to provide one thing. Any declaration in which Kucinich argues that government should own all property and commerce... That is all that is required to be a communist and therefore all you should be required to prove he is one.

 

[mockingbird131313]

You sir are observant. When I said Kucinich was a communist, it was much like you calling Bush a fascist. It would have been more accurate to refer to him as a Socialist. He clearly goes a couple steps beyond liberal activism. So, simply describing Kucinich as liberal is inadequate. Socialist seems a better fit. Also, true communists (I have known a few of them), believe all property belongs to the state. All you are entitled to is what the state chooses to share with you. Clearly, Kucinich has not stated that view. But, he does say the tax rate should be elevated to the level in the Clinton administration. Tax increases support my allegation that Kucinich is a de facto socialist. He should come out of the closet, and say it clearly.

When it comes to Bush and Cheney they are not totalitarian. They, I don't think, kidnap average citizens and cut out their tongues or shoot people in the head. Head shoots are really a prerequisite for true fascists. So, I ponder the question, what do we call the midpoint between conservative and totalitarian? Since the next step past liberalism is socialist, what is the equivalent step for conservatives? That is what Bush and Cheney are today.

QUOTE: "You mean some politician is exploiting a national tragedy at the expense of George W. Bush??? The horror! I now feel enough pity to move G.W. up just behind the cereal rapist getting buggered in prison."
I do not feel much sympathy for any politicians lately. All I was saying is that this was a strong example of Kucinich engaged in demagoguery. It makes me sick when anyone, in either party, plays this game.

So towlie, I'll rephrase my question. Can you show me some reason why I should not believe Kucinich is a socialist?

Oh, almost forgot, do you know why George Bush and Dennis Kucinich are really just different breeds of the same political animal? They both believe in continued expansion of big government. Regardless of what either preaches, the result is about the same.

 

[silk]

Again ... like a typical bushie ... trying to project your own short comings on others. Yeah ... I got a lot of contempt for war criminals and the brownshirts like you that support them. You're just history repeating itself ...

You're too funy. You must forget that in a web forum, people can just scroll back to ascertain who said what.

You said: "People should have the same rights as Americans because they are HUMAN BEINGS ... and people are INOCENT until proven guilty ... a concept I'm sure you and bird find difficult to comprehend. "

It's clear you don't comprehend it either. You are condemning people with your opinion and contradicting yourself. Please do tell us which war criminals you are referring to and how they pertain to this discussion.

 

[medicineman]

You're too funy. You must forget that in a web forum, people can just scroll back to ascertain who said what.

You said: "People should have the same rights as Americans because they are HUMAN BEINGS ... and people are INOCENT until proven guilty ... a concept I'm sure you and bird find difficult to comprehend. "

It's clear you don't comprehend it either. You are condemning people with your opinion and contradicting yourself. Please do tell us which war criminals you are referring to and how they pertain to this discussion.

The thing is: It's so blatant that idealogs of the conservative persuasion have to make shit up to convince themselves there is no criminal behaviour from the Bush regime. I'm pretty sure if you went back and looked at them from an objective viewpoint, you could see the crimes.

 

[mockingbird131313]

The thing is: It's so blatant that idealogs of the conservative persuasion have to make shit up to convince themselves there is no criminal behaviour from the Bush regime. I'm pretty sure if you went back and looked at them from an objective viewpoint, you could see the crimes.

I am a much more conservative than Bush, but, I believe he lied. General Powell is more intelligent and honest, than 99 percent of the people in America. Yet he was convinced, with lies, that a huge danger was imminent.

The real difference difference between Slick-Willy and Dubya is that we were able to figure exactly when a lie (Monica) was told. And that lie was under oath. But with Bush and Cheney the orginal evidense has been lost and destroyed. All that we could see now, has been tainted. You can't prosecute on the present evidense, because there is plausible dieablity for the executive branch.

The only caveat here is that perhaps George Tenat, (former CIA director), has something original stashed away. Then perhaps you could prosecute, but it is likely to be classified. So then no one wishes to expose covert means or methods.

 

[medicineman]

I am a much more conservative than Bush, but, I believe he lied. General Powell is more intelligent and honest, than 99 percent of the people in America. Yet he was convinced, with lies, that a huge danger was imminent.

The real difference difference between Slick-Willy and Dubya is that we were able to figure exactly when a lie (Monica) was told. And that lie was under oath. But with Bush and Cheney the orginal evidense has been lost and destroyed. All that we could see now, has been tainted. You can't prosecute on the present evidense, because there is plausible dieablity for the executive branch.

The only caveat here is that perhaps George Tenat, (former CIA director), has something original stashed away. Then perhaps you could prosecute, but it is likely to be classified. So then no one wishes to expose covert means or methods.

We have a lot of TV tape of all the Neo-cons. Put that up against foriegn intelligence that was used which I'm pretty sure you could get records to prosecute Them with, fly them to the Haag and offer them an all expense lifetime vacation in some foriegn Gulag. That sounds like a worthwhile venture. These blatant criminals need to be taken down. The world will not forgive us if we don't prosecute our war criminals. We are certainly eager to prosecute war criminals from other countries, why not our own? Plus, I'm sure there are plenty of insiders that would turn once Bush is out of office.

 

[GrowRebel]

You're too funy. You must forget that in a web forum, people can just scroll back to ascertain who said what.

You said: "People should have the same rights as Americans because they are HUMAN BEINGS ... and people are INOCENT until proven guilty ... a concept I'm sure you and bird find difficult to comprehend. "

It's clear you don't comprehend it either. You are condemning people with your opinion and contradicting yourself. Please do tell us which war criminals you are referring to and how they pertain to this discussion.

I comprehend fully ... I called them war criminals ... which they are ... but I didn't say they can't get a fair trial did I ... yet you and members of the illegitimate bush regime are willing to do just that.

I'm sure you are not ignorant to the war crimes of this regime ... so you must be stupid ....

... but for our folks at home ...
the illegitimate bush, and cheney, rice, rumsfled, powell, rove, pearl, wolfowitz, and the rest of the members of pnac ... are war criminals and should be tried as such ... more than what they would give to "so-called terrorists".

How they pertain to the discussion is Kucinich is the only one will balls to try to bring these criminals to justice.

 

[silk]

The thing is: It's so blatant that idealogs of the conservative persuasion have to make shit up to convince themselves there is no criminal behaviour from the Bush regime. I'm pretty sure if you went back and looked at them from an objective viewpoint, you could see the crimes.

In law and justice, objectivity is blind, this is how innocent before proven guilty works.

 

[silk]

I comprehend fully ... I called them war criminals ... which they are ... but I didn't say they can't get a fair trial did I ... yet you and members of the illegitimate bush regime are willing to do just that.

I'm sure you are not ignorant to the war crimes of this regime ... so you must be stupid ....

... but for our folks at home ...
the illegitimate bush, and cheney, rice, rumsfled, powell, rove, pearl, wolfowitz, and the rest of the members of pnac ... are war criminals and should be tried as such ... more than what they would give to "so-called terrorists".

How they pertain to the discussion is Kucinich is the only one will balls to try to bring these criminals to justice.

They can't be criminals if they aren't proven guilty. This is where you hose yourself in fallacy. Next time when you need to try for an insult go for something more elaborate than stupid, it might get you some respect or at least a few laughs.

You can't hide behind your rhetoric. I've clearly proven you wrong. You
might want to learn the difference between facts and opinions, perhaps that is what you don't comprehend.

 

[threatlevelorange]

Hahaha! It started with "Support Kucinich" and ends with "Impeach Bush and Cheney." It seems that when someone decides to be a liberal, they have this unwritten rule that, as a group, you MUST criticize the republican powerhouse...almost as if you can't be a liberal and approve of Bush.

 

[GrowRebel]

They can't be criminals if they aren't proven guilty. This is where you hose yourself in fallacy. Next time when you need to try for an insult go for something more elaborate than stupid, it might get you some respect or at least a few laughs.

You can't hide behind your rhetoric. I've clearly proven you wrong. You
might want to learn the difference between facts and opinions, perhaps that is what you don't comprehend.

Talk about rhetoric ... duh ... "they can't be criminals if they aren't proven guilty" ... that means, Hilter, and other war criminals not brought before a court of law weren't ... yeah right ...

Would you prefer dumbass instead ... both fit. I don't need nor want your respect ...

Oh yeah another bushie trait ... the delusion of proving people wrong ... that's always good for a laugh!

Learn between facts and opinions? ... you need to follow your own advice ... that's another bushie trait ... they never follow their own advise.

Hahaha! It started with "Support Kucinich" and ends with "Impeach Bush and Cheney." It seems that when someone decides to be a liberal, they have this unwritten rule that, as a group, you MUST criticize the republican powerhouse...almost as if you can't be a liberal and approve of Bush.

Hahaha yeah it did start with "Support Kucinich" that brought a bill to the floor to IMPEACH THE ILLEGITIMATE cheney ....
It seems that when someone decides to ignore the facts and doesn't read the thread they look like a bushie dumbass ... you MUST overlook the obvious ... it's almost as if you can't look at the facts to support the illegitimate bush.

Ha-ha, ha! Ha-ha, ha, ha, ha!

 

[medicineman]

In law and justice, objectivity is blind, this is how innocent before proven guilty works.

Tell me mr. genious, If innocent before proven guilty is the program, why do you go to jail first then have to prove your innocence. It's not like your innocent till proven guilty at all. The accused is subject to jail and police abuse long before he ends up in a court to ascertain his guilt or innocence. All the police have to do is accuse someone, slap cuffs on him, escort him to jail and wait for the courts to give him a trial date. So now whether you are innocent or not, you have been subject to police abuse, Jail. Bond if available, the expense of hiring a lawyer (If you dont want a dumptruck public defender) all before you get a chance to prove your innocence. So you are assumed guilty untill proven innocent no matter what the law says. Ask me how I know.

 

[mockingbird131313]

QUOTE, "Hahaha yeah it did start with "Support Kucinich" that brought a bill to the floor to IMPEACH THE ILLEGITIMATE cheney ....
It seems that when someone decides to ignore the facts and doesn't read the thread they look like a bushie dumbass ... you MUST overlook the obvious ... it's almost as if you can't look at the facts to support the illegitimate bush.

One fact, that you ignored, failed to mention, or just plain did not bother to check is this; most House of Representative republicans voted to put forth Articles of Impeachment. Most democrats voted against Articles resulting in a failed motion.

The reason this happened is because almost everyone in the House knows Kucinich is over-the-top if not insane. The republicans were going to open the door for him. The democrats did not wish to be disgraced by his clown act.

So, GrowRebel, when you speak of "someone decides to ignore the facts" being a "dumbass" you were addressing yourself, correct?

 

[towlie]

Hello MockingBird

It would have been more accurate to refer to him as a Socialist. He clearly goes a couple steps beyond liberal activism.

Yet these steps remain a complete mystery as you have elucidated none of them.

So, simply describing Kucinich as liberal is inadequate. Socialist seems a better fit.

To whom? You??? Where I’m from socialists promote the vesting of land, capital and infrastructure into a communal whole. I’m quite certain, from our discussion, that you have never heard/read any such quotes directly from Kucinich’s mouth.

But, he does say the tax rate should be elevated to the level in the Clinton administration. Tax increases support my allegation that Kucinich is a de facto socialist.

Ummm. Do I even address this??? Ok. Here we go.

So let me get this straight. Because he supports a higher tax rate, he is therefore a socialist in the de facto sense??? Kind of like a common law marriage? He’s in bed with it but just won’t marry it? I’m too lazy to check my facts here, but I’m pretty sure that every country with a higher standard of living than the US also has a higher tax rate, and none of them are communist or socialist (as defined by any dictionary ever printed.) I don’t think your argument is very strong and I’ll just leave it at that.

So towlie, I'll rephrase my question. Can you show me some reason why I should not believe Kucinich is a socialist?

Yes. Because every person claming he is one can’t tell me, in the non-de facto sense, why... The real answer is that when we, as a species, left the dark ages it was in large part due to new methods in critical thinking. Instead of claming objects fall to earth due to “the natural state,” Newton decided to publish for peer review his theory of universal gravitation. Or when accused of a crime, the defendant is (in theory) always assumed innocent until proven otherwise. Just as when you accuse someone of being socialist, it is your job to prove it.

But to humor you, I went to his web page. Right there on the front page, the first button (well other than the give me money button) is the option ‘ISSUES.’ Click on that and you get his 7 most important issues... One of which is titled ‘Saving Capitalism’. This must be a typo. Nothing reads like the Manifesto of the Communist Party. Perhaps they read your comments and changed it???

Furthermore, in an appeal to your pathos, if you’ll kindly click on the ‘Saving Capitalism’ button, you’ll find one of his 9 action items is the legalization of hemp. And the truth be known, this is why people call him a communist. Because it hijacks the discussion and prevents the real candidates from communicating. This is why Kucinich and Paul will always be labeled as wackos and will never be permitted to debate... because the real men behind the curtain can’t exist with open discussion. So they flood the debate with buzz terms like Communist, and it works it's way into society's psyche (see Richard Dawkin's Meme Theory.) So now we have an entire thread based on Kucinich with few exceptions, the antagonists arguments hardly hold water.

Oh, almost forgot, do you know why George Bush and Dennis Kucinich are really just different breeds of the same political animal? They both believe in continued expansion of big government. Regardless of what either preaches, the result is about the same

Why anyone would actually think that $1.6-trillon spent on bombing campaigns or providing comprehensive healthcare are equally wasted is beyond me.

 

[silk]

Talk about rhetoric ... duh ... "they can't be criminals if they aren't proven guilty" ... that means, Hilter, and other war criminals not brought before a court of law weren't ... yeah right ...

That is how law works. I'm not defending Bush or his administration, just pointing out you don't know what you are talking about. In fact if we use legal terms, Hitler was not a criminal. Do you even know what the word criminal means? There is a fundamental difference between how you want to live and see the world as compared to I, but you have yet to show you understand law or basic terminology of the legal system. I don't agree with what Hitler did or what Bush did but this is not the same thing as they are both charged and convicted in a court of law. You have to be convicted to be a war criminal, the concept of war crimes was developed and ratified at the Geneva conventions between 1899-1925 , previous to that there was NO such thing as a war crime. It's just your opinion or moral stance that Bush and administration are war criminals. If you understand the legal term than you understand how they are not criminals in international law.

Try to find your way out of a paper bag. If that doesn't work, drop the insults and pick a stance that shows you know something about anything. Here is a topic for you: do vascular systems in marijuana plants have any co2 production capability?

Choke on your own puke and welcome to discourse!

If the door hits you on the way out don't take it personally, it was your fault!