Anyone interested in a group buy for LED grow lights?

[CaptainPointless]

Hey, everyone. I have a question. I know many of us are interested in trying LED lighting, but in general, it's pretty cost-prohibitive. In addition, even the $500 HID-Hut UFO lights don't have the correct spectrum (though it is close!).

I currently have a line on a variety of Chinese-made LED grow lights. They come in 90W, 120W, 150W, 300W, and 600W packages. The LEDs from this manufacturer are true 450nm and 660nm wavelengths. 660nm is the one that matters more, and HID-Hut lights self-admittedly don't use this wavelength. The ratio is the generally accepted 8:1 red-to-blue, so it should perform as well or better than the competition.

Now for the part you'll like: the cost ($USD, less shipping, at the moment).

90W = $132 = $1.47/W
120W = $180 = $1.50/W
150W = $220 = $1.47/W
300W = $410 = $1.37/W
600W = $750 = $1.25/W

Compare this to the HID-Hut 90W UFO:
90W = $499.99 = $5.56/W
and the HID-Hut LED Supernova:
270W = $999.99 = $3.70/W

I've contacted the company's sales department, and there is a minimum order quantity (for samples) of 2-3. The guy I've been in contact with said he'll give me a good deal on shipping to the states (since I told him that if the lights fit our needs, we'd more than likely be purchasing a lot more).

For my own personal grow, I'm thinking about buying two of the 300W lights (this should be about the equivalent of two 1000W HID lights, according to various sources).

So mainly, I'm interested to find out if anyone would want to get in a group buy to purchase several of these lights, since these are phenomenal prices. Who knows, we may even get a better deal if we can get enough people who want to do it.



EDIT: Forgot to mention, also. If we have some hardcore people in here that know their wavelengths, we can also have the lights custom-made, for the same price. All that changes is the spectrum that the light covers.

 

[CaptainPointless]

Really? 36 views and no one is interested? Cmon, I know there are people out there who want to try LED growing, and unless you plan on building your own lights, this is probably the best price you're going to find for them. The cheapest I've found a 600W for is $1500, literally double the price of the manufacturer I sourced.\


12/26/09 - EDIT, For anyone who is wondering: No, this is not involved with soliciting. I'm not asking for anyone to pay me ANYTHING. I'm not looking to make any profit from the sale of these lamps. I simply have found a supplier who can provide a decent price for an alternative lighting solution. Speaking of which, I have no problem working with the moderators of RIU to organize a group buy if there is interest. I have no desire to be the one who collects money. So if there are any moderators reading who would like to know more about any of what I've said, respond here or PM me -- I'd be glad to give you all the details about the manufacturer I found.

 

[CaptainPointless]

bumpin it ttt

 

[Parallelism1]

So people give you money and you get the lights so you can grow? Is that right?

 

[Silky Shagsalot]

by the time led's get to the point of being worth using, ie, no bugs and cost, they'll be obsolete. the plasma light on the other hand, looks interesting...

 

[CaptainPointless]

So people give you money and you get the lights so you can grow? Is that right?

No. The idea is buying a product direct from a manufacturer, eliminating the markup added on by a distributor. Many manufacturers will do this, but only if the demand is high enough. So the solution is a group buy -- a bunch of people get together, pool their money to afford the minimum order quantity (or more) and the manufacturer delivers the product very close to at-cost.

Peruse a few other forums, such as automotive parts, or electronics, and you'll see group buys happening all the time. Some forums even have sections dedicated to them. Mainly, group buys help DIYers because they can purchase a product for an affordable price, that might normally be significantly more expensive.

by the time led's get to the point of being worth using, ie, no bugs and cost, they'll be obsolete. the plasma light on the other hand, looks interesting...

I respectfully disagree with your comment. The LED has been around since 1962, and has managed to last this long, advancing significantly throughout the years. They are finally outpacing incandescent and HID bulbs in terms of usable spectrum, efficiency, heat output, form factor...you name it. Also, LED lamps have already been proven in growing situations, so I won't go there.

Currently, plasma lamps (which are, indeed, more efficient) are not a viable source for people like us. You think the cost of LEDs is prohibitive? Wait until you see the first commercial grow lamps utilizing plasma bulbs. They will likely be twice or three times the cost that LEDs currently are, and have a shorter lifespan (20K hours vs 50k hours, as stated by Luxim Corp.). In addition, have you seen the setup it takes to power ONE bulb? Check out the picture in this PDF, and you'll see the size what is necessary.

It will be a long time before the LED is phased out. Right now, we're at the peak of LED technology -- everywhere you look there're new products touting their "new" LED lighting solution. Cost will only continue to go down. Oh, and speaking of cost, how much does the average grower spend on 1000W of HPS lighting? Generally speaking, when all is said and done, each 1000W setup costs around $400, when you add in the cost of the bulb, ballast, and reflector. And much of its light output is wasted, because of the fact that the plants simply don't use the majority of the spectrum generated by the bulb. Also, the bulbs have about half life-span of their LED counterparts (24k hours). And don't forget that by the end of their lives, MH and HPS bulbs no longer produce anywhere near their initial luminosity rating, so in actuality, you're probably replacing the bulbs ever 10k hours or so to retain the most usable amount of light. In addition, LEDs have a directed beam, whereas HID lights need a reflector, to even GATHER the light into a semi-usable path.

Take a look at the spectral graphs for some of the more popular HID bulbs out there. Number one, you need not only an HPS bulb for the flowering phase, but a MH for the vegetative growth phase. So now for a 1000W system, you're already up to the addition of a MH ballast and bulb. Or you could buy one of the MORE expensive ballasts that does both, but you still need to change out bulbs, etc, during your grow. Don't you think it'd be a lot easier to simply turn a dial to fine-tune the ratio of red-blue output? So really, when it comes down to it, yes, the HID bulbs may be putting out 140,000 lumens, but only 3-5% of these are usable to the plant, as only 3-5% are in the spectrum utilized by the plant. For the LED solution on the other hand, the plant uses 100% of the light output of the bulbs. This is why manufacturers claim that a 300W LED grow lamp can outperform a 1000W HID system.

But I digress. My point is that this thread is not for you, Mr. Shagalot, as you apparently have no use for this "obsolete" technology. This is for those of us who already know that we want to use LEDs, and are just looking for a way to make it affordable. I wouldn't have responded to your post, but I felt it prudent to make sure you didn't scare off any fence-sitters by telling them their lights would be obsolete in a few years.


One last thing I thought was interesting. When I did some research on plasma lamps a few months ago, the Luxim website was booming, as well as the LIFI website that Luxim and Panasonic worked together on. Now, try to take a look at either website and you encounter a ghost town. Nothing is left! LIFI.com has been completely disbanded, and Luxim's website is a bare minimum with links that are no longer active. I have no idea why this is, but who knows...maybe they decided that the potential return for plasma lighting just isn't there, and have abandoned it.

 

[poplars]

hah, isn't this involved with soliciting?

this thread wont last long.

 

[CaptainPointless]

hah, isn't this involved with soliciting?

this thread wont last long.

No, this is not involved with soliciting. I'm not asking for anyone to pay me ANYTHING. I'm not looking to make any profit from the sale of these lamps. I simply have found a supplier who can provide a decent price for an alternative lighting solution. Speaking of which, I have no problem working with the moderators of RIU to organize a group buy if there is interest. I have no desire to be the one who collects money. So if there are any moderators reading who would like to know more about any of what I've said, respond here or PM me -- I'd be glad to give you all the details about the manufacturer I found.

 

[poplars]

well perhaps you should have said it in the first post instead of acting like we had to go through YOU to get it.

 

[sfl420]

I am currently in my first grow using LED lighting. I ordered the grow panel 45 from sunshine systems and grew three 2.5 footers with them. Two of the three turned out to be male but I still have one that looks great. I paid about $140 for my light panel. It measures 12.25" x 12.25". I think LEDs have a huge future due to the fact that they are compact, efficient and produce virtually no heat. I don't feel that the price is outrageous. The panel I have is compared to a 250w HPS. The light looks very strange (almost neon pink) but my plant vegged very nicely and its lookin like I will be enjoying some very nice bud in the next couple weeks.

 

[CaptainPointless]

well perhaps you should have said it in the first post instead of acting like we had to go through YOU to get it.

To make YOU happy, I'll add it to my first post.

I am currently in my first grow using LED lighting. I ordered the grow panel 45 from sunshine systems and grew three 2.5 footers with them. Two of the three turned out to be male but I still have one that looks great. I paid about $140 for my light panel. It measures 12.25" x 12.25". I think LEDs have a huge future due to the fact that they are compact, efficient and produce virtually no heat. I don't feel that the price is outrageous. The panel I have is compared to a 250w HPS, yet only uses 28w. The light looks very strange (almost neon pink) but my plant vegged very nicely and its lookin like I will be enjoying some very nice bud in the next couple weeks.

Just think how much more output you could get with a 90W light (approximately the same price as your 28W) or a 120W (only $40 more for about 4x the output). Thank you for responding though, I want people to understand that LED tech IS a viable and affordable solution, no matter the size of the grow.

 

[Wolfrick]

Dude, you can get the latest and greatest (sixth generation) 90 watt LED UFO's on eBay for less than 200USD. They're said to replace 400 watt HID systems. It's only when you get the higher wattage systems that cost you an arm and a leg. There's no need for this.

 

[CaptainPointless]

Dude, you can get the latest and greatest (sixth generation) 90 watt LED UFO's on eBay for less than 200USD. They're said to replace 400 watt HID systems. It's only when you get the higher wattage systems that cost you an arm and a leg. There's no need for this.

They are NOT the latest and greatest. If you take a look through their specifications, many of them do not include the two main spectra of light that plants require (455nm and 660nm). They typically have numbers close to these, but by using LEDs in the 470nm range, and the 630nm range, they can reduce their costs. But don't be fooled...these WILL NOT perform as well as others producing the correct wavelengths. Again, if the light is not part of the usable spectrum, it is wasted, plain and simple. While a plant will use 100% of the light coming from 455nm and 660nm LEDs, it may only use about 80% of the light coming from the cheaper alternatives.

 

[sfl420]

I would be very interested if I had any money at the moment. If the quality can be guarunteed and this takes off in about a month I would most likely be in for trying it out. It wouldn't get much use in 2010 because I plan on doing a 30-40 plant outdoor grow this summer but it would be a great thing to get those seedlings off to a good start. Is there anywhere I can read some of the information or see some pictures. Not saying I don't trust you, I'm just curious.

 

[manwithaplan]

CaptainPointless, check this out... A 90w UFO light with the correct wavelengths for under $200

http://cgi.ebay.com/LED-90w-QUADBAND-UFO-GROW-LIGHT-90-watt-400-600w-HPS-MH_W0QQitemZ320465324094QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9d38c83e

 

[CaptainPointless]

I would be very interested if I had any money at the moment. If the quality can be guarunteed and this takes off in about a month I would most likely be in for trying it out. It wouldn't get much use in 2010 because I plan on doing a 30-40 plant outdoor grow this summer but it would be a great thing to get those seedlings off to a good start. Is there anywhere I can read some of the information or see some pictures. Not saying I don't trust you, I'm just curious.

Here's a link for ya

http://www.dmgt-ledlight.com/Product.asp?BigClassName=LED Grow Light Series

 

[CaptainPointless]

Bump...

Anyone interested? What you see on the site is not everything they offer, fyi.

 

[sfl420]

I'm interested for sure. I just don't have the cash to spend. I think I would go with th 150w. If this happens let me know and I'll see about rounding up so cash. It seems like a pretty good deal to me.

 

[CaptainPointless]

I'm interested for sure. I just don't have the cash to spend. I think I would go with th 150w. If this happens let me know and I'll see about rounding up so cash. It seems like a pretty good deal to me.

I will definitely let you know. I have to wait until I receive my tax return anyway before I can really afford to do anything. More than likely if this happens, it will happen around mid-February to to the beginning of March.

Is anyone else out there interested at all in the possibility of getting a sickeningly good deal on LED grow lights?

 

[poplars]

I don't think most people here even care about LED growing . . .

HPS is where it's at. with those prices I saw on that website, I don't even see any plausible reason I'd want those unless I was trying to hide from my parents??

I mean heat is only hard to control if you're hiding from someone, correct?