Anyone interested in a group buy for LED grow lights?

shrigpiece

Well-Known Member
Fortunately I am NOT a sales "bloke." As I have stated MANY times throughout this thread (though I'm sure you couldn't be bothered to read more than the title), I am NOT the seller of this product, nor am I interested in making any money on it. All I am trying to do is find people who ARE interested in growing with LEDs, because I found a source who can provide them at an affordable cost (which happens to be the most prohibitive aspect of LEDs at the moment). I guess, maybe it's a foreign concept to you, that someone would actually go out of their way to help make things affordable for other people, but I don't know...maybe I was just raised right.

As for the reason I "care so much," it is because I have responded upwards of 15 times in the same thread to nearly identical responses to the one that you have so eloquently contributed. And for the record, you Brits have funny insults -- plank, what, you're calling me a piece of wood? I'm so hurt. :sad:
ok NUMPTY im sure you led muppets have the 'BEST YIELDS' its called false economy dude, i read the thread and am helping the poor dudes that are considering leds. expensive and useless. take my advice buddy im trying to help you as well. HIDs are the way to go, personally i know that you want to rip off these growers. US BRITS KNOW A CONMAN WHEN WE SEE ONE DICKHEAD!:bigjoint:
 

shrigpiece

Well-Known Member
Okay, I've been doing some research on LED grows and from what I found, It's really not worth it at all! It really wont be worth the buy for another 5 years. The out put of the LED diminishes after just a few inches! I've seen grow vids, read plenty of journals, and know someone that has been growing with LED's.
The best I've seen on a LED grow, is 30 grams, with 10 plants. They just aren't strong enough YET!
This is my point, another grower with a pants yield.
 

CaptainPointless

Well-Known Member
ok NUMPTY im sure you led muppets have the 'BEST YIELDS' its called false economy dude, i read the thread and am helping the poor dudes that are considering leds. expensive and useless. take my advice buddy im trying to help you as well. HIDs are the way to go, personally i know that you want to rip off these growers. US BRITS KNOW A CONMAN WHEN WE SEE ONE DICKHEAD!:bigjoint:
Hmm...I still fail to see how you assume that I'm ripping off growers as I want to have no other involvement with this group buy besides being one of the individual buyers. As I said, I have no desire to be involved in the monetary aspect.

Now, about your experience in the subject. If you would like to share some specifics on your "friend's" plant that supposedly was a "weak leggy thind," that would be more educational than your weak-minded insults. By the way, enjoy it when the EU (meaning the UK, since you are part of the EU) disallows the sale of HPS and MH bulbs for being energy inefficient. Don't worry, it's not too long away, and then you'll come crying for the few light solutions that are left.

Oh, and really? REALLY? A numpty? What, is that like, Humpty-Dumpty? Dickhead? Now you're getting somewhere. Don't beat around the bush, tell me how you really feel. No, wait, don't...I really don't give a shit.
 

shrigpiece

Well-Known Member
Hmm...I still fail to see how you assume that I'm ripping off growers as I want to have no other involvement with this group buy besides being one of the individual buyers. As I said, I have no desire to be involved in the monetary aspect.

Now, about your experience in the subject. If you would like to share some specifics on your "friend's" plant that supposedly was a "weak leggy thind," that would be more educational than your weak-minded insults. By the way, enjoy it when the EU (meaning the UK, since you are part of the EU) disallows the sale of HPS and MH bulbs for being energy inefficient. Don't worry, it's not too long away, and then you'll come crying for the few light solutions that are left.

Oh, and really? REALLY? A numpty? What, is that like, Humpty-Dumpty? Dickhead? Now you're getting somewhere. Don't beat around the bush, tell me how you really feel. No, wait, don't...I really don't give a shit.
im pretty sure you are a virgin. getting a bit testy are we? iv never heard of HIDs being banned. what a load of tripe. they will probably be taxed like fuck. are you stupid or something? ever heard off the internet? im sure us brits can order light bulbs online from other countries if we run out. light bulbs being banned? you fucking idiot!:finger:
 

CaptainPointless

Well-Known Member
im pretty sure you are a virgin. getting a bit testy are we? iv never heard of HIDs being banned. what a load of tripe. they will probably be taxed like fuck. are you stupid or something? ever heard off the internet? im sure us brits can order light bulbs online from other countries if we run out. light bulbs being banned? you fucking idiot!:finger:
Read this, homeboy. As I said in an earlier post (which just proves you lied about reading the thread), the EU has been slowly phasing out incandescent lights above 100W. It will eventually spread to HID bulbs, as again, they are HIGHLY inefficient.

"Governments are discouraging the use of conventional light bulbs, which turn only 5 percent to 10 percent of the energy used into light and have shorter lifespans than LEDs. To help reach its target of reducing carbon dioxide emissions 20 percent by 2020 from 1990 levels, the European Union in September started to phase out conventional clear incandescent light bulbs of 100 watts or more. By 2012, other models such as frosted bulbs and high-energy halogen lights will also be disallowed. "

And what's this load of bull about me hearing about the internet? I'm talking to you, aren't I? :dunce:
 

shrigpiece

Well-Known Member
Read this, homeboy. As I said in an earlier post (which just proves you lied about reading the thread), the EU has been slowly phasing out incandescent lights above 100W. It will eventually spread to HID bulbs, as again, they are HIGHLY inefficient.

"Governments are discouraging the use of conventional light bulbs, which turn only 5 percent to 10 percent of the energy used into light and have shorter lifespans than LEDs. To help reach its target of reducing carbon dioxide emissions 20 percent by 2020 from 1990 levels, the European Union in September started to phase out conventional clear incandescent light bulbs of 100 watts or more. By 2012, other models such as frosted bulbs and high-energy halogen lights will also be disallowed. "

And what's this load of bull about me hearing about the internet? I'm talking to you, aren't I? :dunce:
thats ordinary light bulbs that are being phased out. im aware of that. grow light will always be around its a completly different ball game. im and so what ill grow outdoors before i use those fucking things. :clap:
 

Dr.RR

Active Member
Sweet, you two have different views, congratulations to both of you! Do we seriously need this crap? PM each other! I highly doubt people that are interested in this "deal" are going to throw him their money without some legitimate proof that we will A) Actually receive the product that we would order and B) that the product performs

I for one will not join the group buy. I would love to see for myself if LED's are doing the job (in vegging), but I simply don't have that kind of money to throw out right now.

So come on guys, lets keep it somewhat civil...smoke sum of what u got :bigjoint:
 

shrigpiece

Well-Known Member
Hey, everyone. I have a question. I know many of us are interested in trying LED lighting, but in general, it's pretty cost-prohibitive. In addition, even the $500 HID-Hut UFO lights don't have the correct spectrum (though it is close!).

I currently have a line on a variety of Chinese-made LED grow lights. They come in 90W, 120W, 150W, 300W, and 600W packages. The LEDs from this manufacturer are true 450nm and 660nm wavelengths. 660nm is the one that matters more, and HID-Hut lights self-admittedly don't use this wavelength. The ratio is the generally accepted 8:1 red-to-blue, so it should perform as well or better than the competition.

Now for the part you'll like: the cost ($USD, less shipping, at the moment).

90W = $132 = $1.47/W
120W = $180 = $1.50/W
150W = $220 = $1.47/W
300W = $410 = $1.37/W
600W = $750 = $1.25/W

Compare this to the HID-Hut 90W UFO:
90W = $499.99 = $5.56/W
and the HID-Hut LED Supernova:
270W = $999.99 = $3.70/W

I've contacted the company's sales department, and there is a minimum order quantity (for samples) of 2-3. The guy I've been in contact with said he'll give me a good deal on shipping to the states (since I told him that if the lights fit our needs, we'd more than likely be purchasing a lot more).

For my own personal grow, I'm thinking about buying two of the 300W lights (this should be about the equivalent of two 1000W HID lights, according to various sources).

So mainly, I'm interested to find out if anyone would want to get in a group buy to purchase several of these lights, since these are phenomenal prices. Who knows, we may even get a better deal if we can get enough people who want to do it.



EDIT: Forgot to mention, also. If we have some hardcore people in here that know their wavelengths, we can also have the lights custom-made, for the same price. All that changes is the spectrum that the light covers.
This is proof that you are a salesman, the fact you use the words 'WE' proves my point. im off dudette.:lol:
 

shrigpiece

Well-Known Member
Lol, but I'm pretty sure you guys aint gonna get anywhere unless u 2 agree to disagree..! :-P
you have got too admit though what he is proposing is pretty odd. and i know people that have grown with these things and have thrown them to one side. im just looking out for my RIU buddys;-)
 

CaptainPointless

Well-Known Member
you have got too admit though what he is proposing is pretty odd. and i know people that have grown with these things and have thrown them to one side. im just looking out for my RIU buddys;-)
What I'm proposing is NOT odd. There are many, many, MANY instances of forum members joining together to do a group buy of various products. Just do a simple search for "group buy" on google, and see how many different forums you come up with, and how many different types of products. It's simply a method of making any given product more affordable for the people who want/need it.

And again, I will agree with you, that there are plenty of people who have thrown them to the side. However, these are generally the inexpensive eBay specials with the incorrect spectra, pawned off as being the same as the much more high-dollar ones.

This is proof that you are a salesman, the fact you use the words 'WE' proves my point. im off dudette.:lol:
Lol, but I'm pretty sure you guys aint gonna get anywhere unless u 2 agree to disagree..! :-P
I'll agree to disagree with you -- but I'm going to clarify something. When I said "we" I was referring to the growing community on RIU. Don't believe me? I'll post copies of my correspondence with the company's manager if you really want.

Sweet, you two have different views, congratulations to both of you! Do we seriously need this crap? PM each other! I highly doubt people that are interested in this "deal" are going to throw him their money without some legitimate proof that we will A) Actually receive the product that we would order and B) that the product performs

I for one will not join the group buy. I would love to see for myself if LED's are doing the job (in vegging), but I simply don't have that kind of money to throw out right now.

So come on guys, lets keep it somewhat civil...smoke sum of what u got :bigjoint:
This is pretty much what I expect...but I have to ask, am I not making it clear? I'm not asking for anyone's money, whatsoever. I am not a distributor of these lights. The entire point of this thread is to gauge the interest, not the lack thereof. Every time someone posts a "HEY THERE LEDS SUCK AND I HAVE FRIENDS THAT DID IT AND THEY SAID THEY SUCK TOO" post, it takes the discussion off-topic. I guess I can't be totally critical, though, as I'm sure that there's people reading this who learned things about both LEDs and HID lighting through the little arguments. But am I so wrong in asking that people respect the purpose of this thread?

Lastly, I'm going to be smoking some of what I've got here in a little while. :bigjoint:
 

seasmoke

Active Member
I'm smokin some right now.

All you dis believers, i;m skeptical too...but i'm willing to give this a try. I know I can grow. the proof will be in the pudding, so to speak. I will be wanting a years gaurantee on these lights, with full refund if i'm not happy. i'll know if they are worth it in a year. If they won't comply, I won't buy. No sense in smashing an idea....
 

CaptainPointless

Well-Known Member
Oops, I meant "CaptainPointless". Sorry! Damn. I wish you could edit a post after the fact...
LOL, you can...there's a little "edit" button on the bottom of each post for a couple weeks after the original post date I think.

I'm starting to think that the majority of the people interested in potentially buying these lights are afraid of getting burned, so to speak. While others have used LEDs for grows, the consensus seems to be that no one is going to buy any of these without some significant proof that it works.

This has led me to start thinking about just purchasing the minimum order quantity myself, and then posting my results on the web. What are people's opinions on this?
 

ThaiBoy

Member
LOL, you can...there's a little "edit" button on the bottom of each post for a couple weeks after the original post date I think.

I'm starting to think that the majority of the people interested in potentially buying these lights are afraid of getting burned, so to speak. While others have used LEDs for grows, the consensus seems to be that no one is going to buy any of these without some significant proof that it works.

This has led me to start thinking about just purchasing the minimum order quantity myself, and then posting my results on the web. What are people's opinions on this?

I agree. I'm a scientist looking for new and better ways of doing things -- not the typical grower. I also want to grow my green in the greenest way. Believe it or not, this research we are all doing on LED grow lights may lead, in the future, to more efficient ways to raise food and allow all food to be grown locally. Imagine your basement grow room which grows all you veggies too!

As for starting small an posting results -- that's a great idea. My latest thought on experimental design is to grow with hydroponics with baskets that can be removed AND WEIGHED. Weigh each plant each day or week and compare mass accumulation rates! Time series photography would also be great because seeing is believing to many people. With time lapse you could keep the plants in place, but every day switch the type of light between HD and LED. With the same wattage, you might literally be able to "see" the difference grow rates!
 

CaptainPointless

Well-Known Member
I agree. I'm a scientist looking for new and better ways of doing things -- not the typical grower. I also want to grow my green in the greenest way. Believe it or not, this research we are all doing on LED grow lights may lead, in the future, to more efficient ways to raise food and allow all food to be grown locally. Imagine your basement grow room which grows all you veggies too!

As for starting small an posting results -- that's a great idea. My latest thought on experimental design is to grow with hydroponics with baskets that can be removed AND WEIGHED. Weigh each plant each day or week and compare mass accumulation rates! Time series photography would also be great because seeing is believing to many people. With time lapse you could keep the plants in place, but every day switch the type of light between HD and LED. With the same wattage, you might literally be able to "see" the difference grow rates!
Both of your ideas are fantastic. I think the second one (for me, at least) is quite feasible. Since I'm now sourcing separate grow cabinets to allow comparison growing (also the reason I'm buying two 300W LED grow lights instead of one 600W), I would think it would be pretty easy to set up a webcam to take a picture every 15 minutes or so. That should provide a very smooth transition through the images. 24 frames a second, with 96 frames per day, comes to 4 seconds. Every 15 days is a minute of footage, which makes every month two minutes of footage. This comes to around a 7 minute film from veg to flower to harvest. If I had the money, I would buy two more setups, so I could do your first idea at the same time. I will try to come up with a way to do both without disturbing the plant.

Now, as far as the comparison goes, I'm deciding exactly which type to get, but I'm going to buy two 150W MH bulbs and ballasts (for veg), and two 150W HPS bulbs and ballasts (for flower). This will give me 300W (same as the LED fixture) of HID lighting, thus providing an even comparison, watt for watt. If you want to get really technical, the wattage of the LED fixture is actually 288W, so the HID would be slightly more powerful. No matter, it'll be all the better if the LEDs perform better than the HIDs. Since I'll have them in separate enclosures, no light from the LED cabinet will leak into the HID cabinet, and vice versa.

Since I'm not planning on using the HID lights for anything but comparisons, I don't want to spend a great deal of money on them, or their respective ballasts. I'm thinking about getting two of each of these:

http://www.expresslightbulbs.com/high-pressure-sodium-hps-ballast-p-3.html

and

http://www.expresslightbulbs.com/metal-halide-ballast-p-4.html

and then their corresponding bulbs and sockets.

Any thoughts? I'm no electrician, but I know my way around a soldering iron pretty well. I'll be observing, measuring, and documenting everything involved in the grow. The only thing is, I'm concerned that if I do multiple plants from seeds, even feminized, the genetics may differ enough from one seed to the next. This would, obviously, skew my results from one grow to the other, something that would essentially waste any time and effort spent trying to control all aspects of the grow.

EDIT: Another aspect of the grow that I just thought of would involve checking the nutrient/water solution daily to see the concentration in PPM, to see if the type of light affects the nutritional requirements. And as far as the webcam thing goes, since green light doesn't affect plant growth, I'm going to illuminate the plants at night in their enclosures with green LEDs. This will allow the night-time growth to be observed and recorded, while leaving the plants unaffected.
 

axjnkee

Well-Known Member
I currently use 2 glow panel 45's and I love em'.
on my last grow, a buddy gave me a couple clones. he grew his under 1000w hps. I used the 2 45s. and guess what? My girls took a week longer to finish. BUT, the resin production was greater on my girls. Other than that all the buds were identical. I am planning on buying 1 more 45, and 4 of the 14 watt glow panels to mount horazontaly on the wall to better light the lower buds.
 

CaptainPointless

Well-Known Member
I currently use 2 glow panel 45's and I love em'.
on my last grow, a buddy gave me a couple clones. he grew his under 1000w hps. I used the 2 45s. and guess what? My girls took a week longer to finish. BUT, the resin production was greater on my girls. Other than that all the buds were identical. I am planning on buying 1 more 45, and 4 of the 14 watt glow panels to mount horazontaly on the wall to better light the lower buds.
What size room are you growing in? I would love to see some pics of your current setup, as well as when you acquire the rest of the lights. It makes a ton of sense to use lights on the sides as supplemental, since it would help equalize the growth and the plant wouldn't have to work as hard to receive the light. It would be interesting to see if the plant structure changes at all. I mean, leaves grow so that all of them receive light at some point, as the sun passes overhead. But think of it like the sun is surrounding the plant. I bet the plant will be very healthy, as well as higher-yielding.
 
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