GNOME GROWN
Well-Known Member
100% coco?...seems gnarley!...i use FF soilless mix...its got earth worm casting and bat guno!..i mix it with 15-20% perlite..plants love it!!!
600w 4x4 HydroHut Silver Edition Grow With Multi Strains
- Thread starter statik
- Start date
statik
Well-Known Member
Yes Gnome, 100% Atami B'cuzz CoCo. Been a while since I updated this thread. Holiday season and all. Figure now is a good time. Sadly no pics tonight though.
Oh, I figured out a way to get plants pretty much on the floor and only lost 4 inches! I'll explain further down.
Ok, so this is whats been going on since my last update. Like I was saying I wanted the hell out of the mix I was in before. It was just too hot with ferts for the nutes I am using. So I kept battling back and forth with def's and nute burn. NO GOOD. These poor plants have not had the easiest life so far. Def's were starting to get pretty bad in some plants. Mainly Mag and Nitrogen defs. Kept watching fan leaves and middle growth die off. So I would up the nutes and the plants would burn. Which is exactly why I like 100% CoCo. Virtually no nutes. I find it easier to start with a clean slate ya know? Just give the plants what they want and I know that is ALL they are gonna get!
So, I swapped into the CoCo. (2 gallon bags, not 3. Popping into flower ASAP, once again I will explain more down below.) I should have just gone with my gut instinct and properly flushed the stuff before transplanting into it, but I was in a hurry for obvious reasons. Sometimes those rushed choices come back to bite you in the ass. Atami says they rinse their CoCo, but trust me...FLUSH that shit. It has salt in it for sure. After a few days of being in the new medium I noticed the new growth was growing spindly and kind of retarded/mutated. The tips of new leaves were more like nubs on thin weak looking blades.
Also, I am not entirely impressed with the drainage ability of grow bags. I noticed that some plants were pulling that "my roots need oxygen" drooping sad look that Bob mentioned before. This time it was too much water for sure. I grabbed the saddest one and literally drained over a cup of water out of the bottom by gently squeezing the bag (poor White Russian)!
I figured out a way to take care of all 4 of my issues at once. Nute def's, drainage, salt, and getting my plants up off the floor just a bit to make watering not such a PITA but NOT lose more than a few inches in height.
I went into 2 gal bags. I wanted to go with 3, but I am hoping to get away with 2. I have seen 3 foot plants in one gallon pots produce a decent yield....so what the hell why not? Pretty much just a grow to get used to the tent anyway.
I took the 2 gal bags and literally stabbed the hell out of them (I was as careful as I could be with roots of course). I think I added around 50 new holes to each bag if you include all four sides and the bottom (mainly the bottoms).
I then mixed up some 1/4 strength nutes with a higher dose of the veg (for N) and CalMag+ (for cal and mag of course). Then flushed a few gallons through each pot. Which should have built up some nutes in the CoCo and washed out the salt.
Now, the plants on the floor thing was killing me. I had thought of taking bricks and some plywood covered with mylar and holes drilled into it. Still not enough air flow IMO. I had ran through so many different ideas I was pretty much done trying.
My wife asks me whats wrong, so I tell her the problem. She looks at me and in about 3 seconds asks, "Would a palate work?"
<--- Me
So the brain kicked back into gear and I thought, a plastic palate would be even better. Some family of mine knew of my dilemma and were driving about when they spotted some plastic palates behind a local store. No, they didn't steal them...thats bad mmmkay?
They told me about them and we drove back to ask where we could get a hold of some ourselves. They told us to ask any store that sells kegs (just a little FYI
). We just so happen to know of one.
Rolled down to the keg store, and there were a large stack of empty 2 liter plastic palates sitting right in front of the door. If you dont know what I am talking about I will up some pics of them soon.
Anyway, they are about 4 inches tall, about a foot or so wide and nearly two feet long. We asked the guy who was running the place about them and he said "Merry Christmas, take as many as you need." Grabbed a good handful of them, took off to the grow pad and got to work.
Floor is AWESOME. Wish I had pics to show you now.
Roots may tangle around the crates (which are upside down btw), but they are so open I should be able to untangle them if I need to move plants around. Lots of air space under the buckets, which will help with drainage for sure as well.
After I did all this the White Russian that was looking really bad has perked up nicely..as well as the rest of the grow.
Have lights and fans on timers now. Only giving 18 hours of light, plants are showing some preflowers now. So some dark should encourage them to show me what sex they are a little quicker, I think. Still in veg, I want the defs to be gone before I kick that switch. If I have to train plants into a net later on so be it. A few plants are pushing 16 inches tall...getting kind of scary...
Ok, pics soon guys. Promise.
Oh, I figured out a way to get plants pretty much on the floor and only lost 4 inches! I'll explain further down.
Ok, so this is whats been going on since my last update. Like I was saying I wanted the hell out of the mix I was in before. It was just too hot with ferts for the nutes I am using. So I kept battling back and forth with def's and nute burn. NO GOOD. These poor plants have not had the easiest life so far. Def's were starting to get pretty bad in some plants. Mainly Mag and Nitrogen defs. Kept watching fan leaves and middle growth die off. So I would up the nutes and the plants would burn. Which is exactly why I like 100% CoCo. Virtually no nutes. I find it easier to start with a clean slate ya know? Just give the plants what they want and I know that is ALL they are gonna get!
So, I swapped into the CoCo. (2 gallon bags, not 3. Popping into flower ASAP, once again I will explain more down below.) I should have just gone with my gut instinct and properly flushed the stuff before transplanting into it, but I was in a hurry for obvious reasons. Sometimes those rushed choices come back to bite you in the ass. Atami says they rinse their CoCo, but trust me...FLUSH that shit. It has salt in it for sure. After a few days of being in the new medium I noticed the new growth was growing spindly and kind of retarded/mutated. The tips of new leaves were more like nubs on thin weak looking blades.
Also, I am not entirely impressed with the drainage ability of grow bags. I noticed that some plants were pulling that "my roots need oxygen" drooping sad look that Bob mentioned before. This time it was too much water for sure. I grabbed the saddest one and literally drained over a cup of water out of the bottom by gently squeezing the bag (poor White Russian)!
I figured out a way to take care of all 4 of my issues at once. Nute def's, drainage, salt, and getting my plants up off the floor just a bit to make watering not such a PITA but NOT lose more than a few inches in height.
I went into 2 gal bags. I wanted to go with 3, but I am hoping to get away with 2. I have seen 3 foot plants in one gallon pots produce a decent yield....so what the hell why not? Pretty much just a grow to get used to the tent anyway.
I took the 2 gal bags and literally stabbed the hell out of them (I was as careful as I could be with roots of course). I think I added around 50 new holes to each bag if you include all four sides and the bottom (mainly the bottoms).
I then mixed up some 1/4 strength nutes with a higher dose of the veg (for N) and CalMag+ (for cal and mag of course). Then flushed a few gallons through each pot. Which should have built up some nutes in the CoCo and washed out the salt.
Now, the plants on the floor thing was killing me. I had thought of taking bricks and some plywood covered with mylar and holes drilled into it. Still not enough air flow IMO. I had ran through so many different ideas I was pretty much done trying.
My wife asks me whats wrong, so I tell her the problem. She looks at me and in about 3 seconds asks, "Would a palate work?"
<--- MeSo the brain kicked back into gear and I thought, a plastic palate would be even better. Some family of mine knew of my dilemma and were driving about when they spotted some plastic palates behind a local store. No, they didn't steal them...thats bad mmmkay?
They told me about them and we drove back to ask where we could get a hold of some ourselves. They told us to ask any store that sells kegs (just a little FYI
). We just so happen to know of one.Rolled down to the keg store, and there were a large stack of empty 2 liter plastic palates sitting right in front of the door. If you dont know what I am talking about I will up some pics of them soon.
Anyway, they are about 4 inches tall, about a foot or so wide and nearly two feet long. We asked the guy who was running the place about them and he said "Merry Christmas, take as many as you need." Grabbed a good handful of them, took off to the grow pad and got to work.
Floor is AWESOME. Wish I had pics to show you now.
Roots may tangle around the crates (which are upside down btw), but they are so open I should be able to untangle them if I need to move plants around. Lots of air space under the buckets, which will help with drainage for sure as well.After I did all this the White Russian that was looking really bad has perked up nicely..as well as the rest of the grow.
Have lights and fans on timers now. Only giving 18 hours of light, plants are showing some preflowers now. So some dark should encourage them to show me what sex they are a little quicker, I think. Still in veg, I want the defs to be gone before I kick that switch. If I have to train plants into a net later on so be it. A few plants are pushing 16 inches tall...getting kind of scary...
Ok, pics soon guys. Promise.
GNOME GROWN
Well-Known Member
nice update homie!..cant wait to see what u did with those plastic pallets on the floor! 
statik
Well-Known Member
Okay, I have been dealing with a lot of family BS and what not lately. So my thread has gathered massive dust because of it. I have no pics tonight, but WILL have them tomorrow. Anyway, lets bring everything up to speed shall we?
First off, I flipped the switch into flower on Jan 1st (Happy New Year! I took a few cuttings too). So I have been in 12/12 for 15 days exactly. I had already chucked out a few weaker, slower growing plants to once again make room. Then I wound up having a good # of males. I also have had 2 hermies so far. As is I have 16 plants now. Big drop in #'s huh?
Lots of stress in early stages, and old bag seed...gave me a crap load of males. Oh well. Anyway, to make up for some of our loss we went and picked up 4 clones:
1 Purple Extreme
1 SoCal Master
1 Blue Berry Hogs-breath
1 Pre '98 Bubba Kush
All were rooted very well (all 4 went straight into flower). Most were about 5 - 6 inches tall.
I transplanted ALL plants into 3.2 gal square pots. The new mix was a 50/50 CoCo/perlite...crazy I know. I was just so damn tired of over watering issues when I am only watering once a damn week!
So now when I water, I only have to let my buckets drain for about 10 minutes and they will only drip for a minute or two if I tilt them.
I can always ADD more water to a bucket more often...taking it back out is a different story. Bonus is the top layer is mainly perlite so the gnats are not really liking it. That, and the fact the top layer dries out so fast now. I honestly think I could flood the pots every other day and not over water (well, close).
Anyway, temps have been a bit of an issue. Since the grow is out towards the warmest part of the county...I struggle to pull temps below 82 degrees (lights on) and its only January. So I am looking into getting the Hydro Innovations Ice Box and a Chiller..tomorrow. I found a guy selling a 1/4 HP Aquarium chiller with the pump and tubing for $400! Now that's a steal considering that this chiller model itself goes for over $700 alone.
If you don't really know what the Ice Box is all about then check it out here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0uRrMvfucY&feature=related
It doesn't get much better than that IMHO. Someone mentioned one briefly in BobSmiths thread I believe. I am actually surprised more underground growers dont use them. It pretty much eliminates the need to duct air out of your room.
So, plants were showing some signs of Phos. def's so I pumped up my nutes to full strength on the bigger plants grown from seed. Clones were bumped up to 1/3 strength this last watering.
All in all the garden seems to be making a turn for the better. Every time I go back plants are bigger, greener, and have more pistils. The defs had slowed way down at 1/2 strength flower nutes, so now that I have bumped them I am pretty sure they will stop outright.
Interesting thing about the nutes I am using. You are NOT supposed to mess with the pH at all. It buffers out to about 5.3 in all combos/ratios surprisingly. Since its organic and has lots of bio activity going on (namely bacteria) the pH will raise on its own to appropriate levels. I tested this with the clones, and sure enough when I tested my run off this last water it was sitting @ a pretty 6.3 - 6.4
I tested the pH of the other plants (I raised the nutes pH to about 6.3 - 6.5) and the poor babies have been sitting in like 7.0!
So now I have my nutes figured out. At least the clones will have it easier right? Thats why we went with 2 year old bagseed first...to help get this dialed in before we went and spent some actual $$ on good cuttings/seeds. This way things will be all figured out for the next grow, and it wont have been a complete waste of nutes, time, elec & energy.
Okay guys, looong update (again) and I still got stuff to do before bed. May all that you dream come to fruition.
First off, I flipped the switch into flower on Jan 1st (Happy New Year! I took a few cuttings too). So I have been in 12/12 for 15 days exactly. I had already chucked out a few weaker, slower growing plants to once again make room. Then I wound up having a good # of males. I also have had 2 hermies so far. As is I have 16 plants now. Big drop in #'s huh?
Lots of stress in early stages, and old bag seed...gave me a crap load of males. Oh well. Anyway, to make up for some of our loss we went and picked up 4 clones:
1 Purple Extreme
1 SoCal Master
1 Blue Berry Hogs-breath
1 Pre '98 Bubba Kush
All were rooted very well (all 4 went straight into flower). Most were about 5 - 6 inches tall.
I transplanted ALL plants into 3.2 gal square pots. The new mix was a 50/50 CoCo/perlite...crazy I know. I was just so damn tired of over watering issues when I am only watering once a damn week!
So now when I water, I only have to let my buckets drain for about 10 minutes and they will only drip for a minute or two if I tilt them.
I can always ADD more water to a bucket more often...taking it back out is a different story. Bonus is the top layer is mainly perlite so the gnats are not really liking it. That, and the fact the top layer dries out so fast now. I honestly think I could flood the pots every other day and not over water (well, close).Anyway, temps have been a bit of an issue. Since the grow is out towards the warmest part of the county...I struggle to pull temps below 82 degrees (lights on) and its only January. So I am looking into getting the Hydro Innovations Ice Box and a Chiller..tomorrow. I found a guy selling a 1/4 HP Aquarium chiller with the pump and tubing for $400! Now that's a steal considering that this chiller model itself goes for over $700 alone.
If you don't really know what the Ice Box is all about then check it out here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0uRrMvfucY&feature=related
It doesn't get much better than that IMHO. Someone mentioned one briefly in BobSmiths thread I believe. I am actually surprised more underground growers dont use them. It pretty much eliminates the need to duct air out of your room.
So, plants were showing some signs of Phos. def's so I pumped up my nutes to full strength on the bigger plants grown from seed. Clones were bumped up to 1/3 strength this last watering.
All in all the garden seems to be making a turn for the better. Every time I go back plants are bigger, greener, and have more pistils. The defs had slowed way down at 1/2 strength flower nutes, so now that I have bumped them I am pretty sure they will stop outright.
Interesting thing about the nutes I am using. You are NOT supposed to mess with the pH at all. It buffers out to about 5.3 in all combos/ratios surprisingly. Since its organic and has lots of bio activity going on (namely bacteria) the pH will raise on its own to appropriate levels. I tested this with the clones, and sure enough when I tested my run off this last water it was sitting @ a pretty 6.3 - 6.4
I tested the pH of the other plants (I raised the nutes pH to about 6.3 - 6.5) and the poor babies have been sitting in like 7.0!
So now I have my nutes figured out. At least the clones will have it easier right? Thats why we went with 2 year old bagseed first...to help get this dialed in before we went and spent some actual $$ on good cuttings/seeds. This way things will be all figured out for the next grow, and it wont have been a complete waste of nutes, time, elec & energy.
Okay guys, looong update (again) and I still got stuff to do before bed. May all that you dream come to fruition.
statik
Well-Known Member
OK, so I just got a TON of pics that have been taken through out the dead space of my thread. Like I said in my last post, just a lot of "life" in general has kept me from being able to spend as much time keeping it updated as I would like.
So please forgive me, but I am about to spam my own thread a bit with three sets of posts.
Pics below are from about 12-28-09 (few 27'th pics in there).
Obviously these pics were taken while still in veg. In some pics you can see that plants (were) in 100% CoCo still, as well as the 2 gal grow bags. The last pic you can kind of see some of the smaller plants that got culled, as well as some nice examples of Mag def's! If you look you can actually see Mag, Calcium, and Potash def's.
Still hadn't figured out the fact my nutes raise pH all on their own at this point. Not only that, but the bags still didn't drain properly, so I had to wait a loooonngg time before watering again. Which allowed the pH to rise for longer as well...resulting in more issues all around.
Not much else I can say. Stepping off for a
break and I'll be back in bit to throw up the next missing bit of my thread.
So please forgive me, but I am about to spam my own thread a bit with three sets of posts.
Pics below are from about 12-28-09 (few 27'th pics in there).
Obviously these pics were taken while still in veg. In some pics you can see that plants (were) in 100% CoCo still, as well as the 2 gal grow bags. The last pic you can kind of see some of the smaller plants that got culled, as well as some nice examples of Mag def's! If you look you can actually see Mag, Calcium, and Potash def's.
Still hadn't figured out the fact my nutes raise pH all on their own at this point. Not only that, but the bags still didn't drain properly, so I had to wait a loooonngg time before watering again. Which allowed the pH to rise for longer as well...resulting in more issues all around.
Not much else I can say. Stepping off for a
break and I'll be back in bit to throw up the next missing bit of my thread.Attachments
statik
Well-Known Member
Alright, back from my break.
These pics are from 1-1-2010. The first day I switched to flower. I put in my 600w hps (You can even see the light coming on for the first time in one of these pics). I dropped in the new floor (upside down 2 liter soda crates). I also had started to cull out males. Some at this point were not developed enough for me to tell what sex they were.
So I went through and tagged each one with the suspected sex, then kept a close eye on them. I found out later I was pretty much 90% accurate with that.
In some of these pics you will see the "smart bungees" I am using to hold some of the stuff to the ceiling. I must admit they are pretty cool. I can create all kinds of crazy connections/lengths.
I am pretty sure at this point (although you cant see it) I was transplanting known females into 3.2 gallon square pots in the 50/50 CoCo/perlite mix. I wanted to transplant them all, but did not want to waste the time and effort transplanting males.
Anyway, thats about it for this chunk of update I believe. These poor plants, they have sadly only had bursts of proper pH. Makes me wonder what they would look like if they would have had an easier life.
Stepping off again for a little bit. Then I have some pics that were taken today...finally gonna be all caught up!
These pics are from 1-1-2010. The first day I switched to flower. I put in my 600w hps (You can even see the light coming on for the first time in one of these pics). I dropped in the new floor (upside down 2 liter soda crates). I also had started to cull out males. Some at this point were not developed enough for me to tell what sex they were.
So I went through and tagged each one with the suspected sex, then kept a close eye on them. I found out later I was pretty much 90% accurate with that.
In some of these pics you will see the "smart bungees" I am using to hold some of the stuff to the ceiling. I must admit they are pretty cool. I can create all kinds of crazy connections/lengths.
I am pretty sure at this point (although you cant see it) I was transplanting known females into 3.2 gallon square pots in the 50/50 CoCo/perlite mix. I wanted to transplant them all, but did not want to waste the time and effort transplanting males.
Anyway, thats about it for this chunk of update I believe. These poor plants, they have sadly only had bursts of proper pH. Makes me wonder what they would look like if they would have had an easier life.
Stepping off again for a little bit. Then I have some pics that were taken today...finally gonna be all caught up!
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terrorizer805
Well-Known Member
Nice setup you got goin ther statik.
I just bought a Purple extreme clone aswell about a 2 weeks ago.
Did you get it at Progressive options by any chance?
I just bought a Purple extreme clone aswell about a 2 weeks ago.
Did you get it at Progressive options by any chance?
statik
Well-Known Member
Thank you, I am glad to have you both on board. @Terrorizer, no I got my Purple Extreme from somewhere else. I'd love to say where, but I have noticed they don't really advertise..so I am going to go with the flow on that one.
@Cazador, right on...I figured the 1st of the year was as good a day as any!
I don't know what in the world, these are not the best pics and I apologize for that. I guess the crazy woman who took them was trying to show me something about the size of a few of them.
Either way, there are a few that will give you an "idea" of what the garden is doing now.
At this point I am feeding full strength nutes to all plants grown from seed. Clones will be adjusted depending on how the look when I go back again (today).
All plants are in the 3.2 gl square pots as I mentioned before. Pics are worth 1000 words. I'll catch ya'll later on I'm sure.
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GNOME GROWN
Well-Known Member
whoooop whoooop!!!! looking good in there bro!!!..i cant wait til my tent is full!..i'll prob be taken some clones ina few weeks!! 
statik
Well-Known Member
Why thank ya Gnome. I miscounted before..I have 15 plants right now (including the 4 clones). I had my favorite OG Kush lady go hermie on me so I had to take her out with the quickness.whoooop whoooop!!!! looking good in there bro!!!..i cant wait til my tent is full!..i'll prob be taken some clones ina few weeks!!
That's alright though, I still have one (OG) and she is pretty happy. Some of the more Sativa ended strains are starting to stretch (with decent node growth thankfully) now that they have been in flower for a bit. One of my 2 GreenTea's was sitting about 6 inches taller than the rest last time I was there.
So I decided screw it, I have the room...and she wants to get tall anyway..and LST'd her. I looked around the rest of the canopy and decided I could get away with doing it to a few more. From what I hear the GreenTea responded great.
I haven't really heard much about what the other ones I trained are doing. Then again, I didn't really ask.
I got tired of even seeing the random few gnats I am now, so I went ahead and added some nematodes to the medium...about 1 million of them across 15 buckets.
That should keep them pretty low until the end of harvest I would think, especially since they are already having a hard time with the 50/50 mix I am now drying out as fast as it does.
Next time though, I am going to just start out treating with this new stuff I found from GH. It's called Azamax. You can check it out for yourself. The stuff does way too much to try to list here:
http://www.generalhydroponics.com/blog/2009/01/21/azamax-what-does-it-do/
OMRI listed and licensed in all 50 states.
After 3 treatments with this stuff, bugs are not a problem. It goes systemic, so its like giving them a vaccine against almost any kind of bug that may want to hurt your babies. You could let bugs go in your garden on purpose and they will pretty much leave your plants the hell alone.
Saw a test where they put an Army Worm on a non-treated plant. Little dude went to town. Another worm, with a treated plant...wouldn't take a bite.
I am making this part of my routine in early veg from now on.
bugs.
GNOME GROWN
Well-Known Member
lol..smart man!..i dunno how u had bug problems though?..
statik
Well-Known Member
The original Royal Gold Soilless CoCo Basement Mix I was in was full of gnats.
I love the mix itself, now that I know how hot it is I think I could use it properly. However, the fact it is FULL of gnats is kind of a deal breaker, ya know?
I am pretty happy with the stuff from B'cuzz. Just need to run some FloraKleen through it to make sure the salts are all leached out. Better than bugs IMO.
GNOME GROWN
Well-Known Member
lol true that man!...
statik
Well-Known Member
Well, its been a storming down here in SoCal the last few days. I just got a call informing me the power is out where the grow is. It's about 2 in the afternoon here in Cali, and my lights are supposed to kick on @ 3 p.m.
Also, now my fans are not exhausting as they should, so RH is rising like mad for sure. I had the voice on the phone open the main flap part way at the top to help the best we could without letting in a ton of light.
We have blocked out the windows etc, so it should be ok with the door part way closed on the room.
Any suggestions as to what I should do if the power comes back on later than 3 - 4 oclock this afternoon?
Let it ride? What?
Also, now my fans are not exhausting as they should, so RH is rising like mad for sure. I had the voice on the phone open the main flap part way at the top to help the best we could without letting in a ton of light.
We have blocked out the windows etc, so it should be ok with the door part way closed on the room.
Any suggestions as to what I should do if the power comes back on later than 3 - 4 oclock this afternoon?
Let it ride? What?
terrorizer805
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear about that, Unless you can get your hands on a power generator theres not much you can really do just wait it out. I hope your power comes back quick though.
terrorizer805
Well-Known Member
Call your power provider see what's going on with the power.
GNOME GROWN
Well-Known Member
w.e. u do dont try to put any lights on it like flash lights or anything..just let it stay dark!..it can stay dark for 24 hours and wont do shit..ur still veggin rite?