growthspurt
Well-Known Member
I really don’t think anyone can conceive a perfect being. I’m pretty sure a perfect being has no thirst, no hunger, no itch, no intuition, no opinion, and no need or desire to build. After all, doesn’t a need to create imply imperfection, at least on some small level? God doesn’t get bored. He doesn’t recognize beauty or take inspiration. He shouldn’t have a want to manufacture something that wasn’t there before. He’s a perfect being. Even the very existence of something tips the scale of observation in favor of it being imperfect. If something exists, it’s suddenly limited, isn’t it?
There was a wonderful stream of logic sourced in the “God Delusion” that basically came to the conclusion that if we assume the merits of a creator depend on the hardships he faces in the act of creating, then a god that doesn’t exist would have a harder time with the creation of things than a god that DOES exist, and therefore a god that doesn’t exist would be a more perfect god than one that does exist. It’s confusing, but what I get out of it is the idea that simple existence, and the implication of actions being taken, be those actions the creation of all things, the decree of commandments, the punishment and rewarding of behavior... all seem to me to imply some miniscule level of imperfection. It isn’t just the fact that the WAY god seemingly acts seems to have a human hand behind it, it’s the fact that god acts at all.
And even if we were to assume something perfect COULD exist in reality, then wouldn’t a perfect being be fine with JUST existence? I imagine a big cloud somewhere in space. No one can see it, and it doesn’t affect anything that moves through it. It’s perfect. All it does is exist. As soon as you start saying that cloud loves, condemns, creates, destroys, wants you to join it, wants you to hear it, wants you to trust in it... I start to see something less perfect than it was before.
God in the Christian tradition has a very specific thing he wants from us. He wants us to hear the Word, give our love to him, accept Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. But... God also transcends time and space. He has no limitations. He sees us now and he sees us at the end of days, so he pretty much knows who has accepted Christ and who hasn’t, though we ourselves have to live our whole lives and eventually GET there. He already knows. So what Christians want me to believe is that God loves me and wants me to give my full belief to him. But he already knows if I do or if I don’t, so he can’t possibly be getting anything out of watching me live my life. So I’m supposed to expect I’m like a football game He’s TiVoed and He doesn’t want to skip to the end, and He’s huddled there with popcorn watching me go through my trials and He’s cheering for me to at some point fall to my knees and accept Him? Basically, if He already knows what I’m going to do, my life as I live it should offer him nothing. And if He DOESN’T already know what I’m going to do, as in “God may transcend time and space but destiny is not predetermined and it’s always changing”, then He’s not exactly a perfect being, is He? Either God knows everything and knows how it’s all going to end, or he doesn’t know everything.
But let’s concede this even further. Let’s say that not only can a perfect god EXIST, but a perfect god can also CREATE. Forget that a perfect being would probably transcend a whim to create. Let’s say yes God does exist and yes he creates. Even if this were true, could anyone really imagine what it would be that a perfect being would create? What the hell does something perfect create? What appeases a perfect being? What’s good enough? For some reason all I can imagine is more clouds in space that no one can see or touch. Is a perfect being satisfied with a imperfect creation? And if so we are to assume he made it imperfect on purpose. But here we go again- doesn’t a “purpose” matter nothing to a perfect being? What does a perfect being need to accomplish?
I think at the end of my argument, all I want to imply is that people that believe god is perfect have more than just his human like actions to contend with. Calling something perfect suddenly opens up a whole new line of questioning, namely the implication of what a perfect being’s point is. What’s it’s point? I love the imperfect gods of Greek myth. They are practically human, just with a shit load of power. That’s how I imagine a real god would be. Imperfect, bumbling, always willing to turn into a bull if it means it might get laid. MAN those Greeks had some stores.
There was a wonderful stream of logic sourced in the “God Delusion” that basically came to the conclusion that if we assume the merits of a creator depend on the hardships he faces in the act of creating, then a god that doesn’t exist would have a harder time with the creation of things than a god that DOES exist, and therefore a god that doesn’t exist would be a more perfect god than one that does exist. It’s confusing, but what I get out of it is the idea that simple existence, and the implication of actions being taken, be those actions the creation of all things, the decree of commandments, the punishment and rewarding of behavior... all seem to me to imply some miniscule level of imperfection. It isn’t just the fact that the WAY god seemingly acts seems to have a human hand behind it, it’s the fact that god acts at all.
And even if we were to assume something perfect COULD exist in reality, then wouldn’t a perfect being be fine with JUST existence? I imagine a big cloud somewhere in space. No one can see it, and it doesn’t affect anything that moves through it. It’s perfect. All it does is exist. As soon as you start saying that cloud loves, condemns, creates, destroys, wants you to join it, wants you to hear it, wants you to trust in it... I start to see something less perfect than it was before.
God in the Christian tradition has a very specific thing he wants from us. He wants us to hear the Word, give our love to him, accept Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. But... God also transcends time and space. He has no limitations. He sees us now and he sees us at the end of days, so he pretty much knows who has accepted Christ and who hasn’t, though we ourselves have to live our whole lives and eventually GET there. He already knows. So what Christians want me to believe is that God loves me and wants me to give my full belief to him. But he already knows if I do or if I don’t, so he can’t possibly be getting anything out of watching me live my life. So I’m supposed to expect I’m like a football game He’s TiVoed and He doesn’t want to skip to the end, and He’s huddled there with popcorn watching me go through my trials and He’s cheering for me to at some point fall to my knees and accept Him? Basically, if He already knows what I’m going to do, my life as I live it should offer him nothing. And if He DOESN’T already know what I’m going to do, as in “God may transcend time and space but destiny is not predetermined and it’s always changing”, then He’s not exactly a perfect being, is He? Either God knows everything and knows how it’s all going to end, or he doesn’t know everything.
But let’s concede this even further. Let’s say that not only can a perfect god EXIST, but a perfect god can also CREATE. Forget that a perfect being would probably transcend a whim to create. Let’s say yes God does exist and yes he creates. Even if this were true, could anyone really imagine what it would be that a perfect being would create? What the hell does something perfect create? What appeases a perfect being? What’s good enough? For some reason all I can imagine is more clouds in space that no one can see or touch. Is a perfect being satisfied with a imperfect creation? And if so we are to assume he made it imperfect on purpose. But here we go again- doesn’t a “purpose” matter nothing to a perfect being? What does a perfect being need to accomplish?
I think at the end of my argument, all I want to imply is that people that believe god is perfect have more than just his human like actions to contend with. Calling something perfect suddenly opens up a whole new line of questioning, namely the implication of what a perfect being’s point is. What’s it’s point? I love the imperfect gods of Greek myth. They are practically human, just with a shit load of power. That’s how I imagine a real god would be. Imperfect, bumbling, always willing to turn into a bull if it means it might get laid. MAN those Greeks had some stores.
