Do I need to flush?

[MrBaker]

How are we defining a "flush"?

Anyway, I think that the organic life in your food/growing medium may have been able to deal with any synthetic salt build-up.

What the hell are you growing in, anyway? Like a pro-mix or something? Do you re-use your "soil"?

The way I learned it:

Flush = just water (often times, lotsa) used to wash out the build-up of synthetic salts during a synthetic grow. Supposedly, if the salts and other stuff (synthetic nutrients included) in the growing medium are washed out then the plant is forced to uptake water and use its nutrient reserves; resulting in less chemical stuff in the final product. The use of this nutrient reserve is one possible reason for leaf yellowing. So, when coupled with what could be natural senescence (death) towards the end of a plant's life, it's fairly common for leaves to get dropped. IMO, the trick is to flush when the plant is ready (a whole WoT in itself), and not make the plant look ready by flushing too early and starving it, ya dig?

Flushing Organics?

If a system is organic (or even mostly organic), then there should not be a build up of synthetic salts. Now that those are gone, a flush would only be good for starving the plant if the growing medium hasn't been augmented with additives.

Here is where there is a fork in the road.
1.)Assuming the growing medium doesn't hold nutrient reserves, if the plant gets the starve-flush (organic or not) then the plant will drop leaves and eat itself. This might make manicuring easier, and make the dry/cure space stink less like chlorophyll. Will it make the buds taste any better? I think this is a moot point because drying/curing is what makes buds lose the "gamey" taste. The buds are reproductive structure for the plant, so that means the plant will pull food from other less important structures in order to protect the sex organs, and attempt to "live another day". It's not like bad tasting nutrients are stored in buds, and then are magically eaten when the plant is flushed.
2.)Timing the starve-flush has to be done when the grower realizes the plant will be done in 2 weeks. This is something that requires actual experience. Assuming the grower feeds until havest, or the growing medium has been augmented with extra nutrients, the plant will eventually finish even if it doesn't get starved to death. Most strains are meant to flower and die because from an evolutionary sense in the wild, they flower in late summer and die during fall.

To me, unless growing with strictly synthetics, why flush? Unless that "flush" happens to the be the couple weeks between feedings.

 

[twdee kamer]

bio=10-14 days hydro -4-7 days

 

[Cow Tea]

How are we defining a "flush"?

Anyway, I think that the organic life in your food/growing medium may have been able to deal with any synthetic salt build-up.

What the hell are you growing in, anyway? Like a pro-mix or something? Do you re-use your "soil"?

The way I learned it:

Flush = just water (often times, lotsa) used to wash out the build-up of synthetic salts during a synthetic grow. Supposedly, if the salts and other stuff (synthetic nutrients included) in the growing medium are washed out then the plant is forced to uptake water and use its nutrient reserves; resulting in less chemical stuff in the final product. The use of this nutrient reserve is one possible reason for leaf yellowing. So, when coupled with what could be natural senescence (death) towards the end of a plant's life, it's fairly common for leaves to get dropped. IMO, the trick is to flush when the plant is ready (a whole WoT in itself), and not make the plant look ready by flushing too early and starving it, ya dig?

Flushing Organics?

If a system is organic (or even mostly organic), then there should not be a build up of synthetic salts. Now that those are gone, a flush would only be good for starving the plant if the growing medium hasn't been augmented with additives.

Here is where there is a fork in the road.
1.)Assuming the growing medium doesn't hold nutrient reserves, if the plant gets the starve-flush (organic or not) then the plant will drop leaves and eat itself. This might make manicuring easier, and make the dry/cure space stink less like chlorophyll. Will it make the buds taste any better? I think this is a moot point because drying/curing is what makes buds lose the "gamey" taste. The buds are reproductive structure for the plant, so that means the plant will pull food from other less important structures in order to protect the sex organs, and attempt to "live another day". It's not like bad tasting nutrients are stored in buds, and then are magically eaten when the plant is flushed.
2.)Timing the starve-flush has to be done when the grower realizes the plant will be done in 2 weeks. This is something that requires actual experience. Assuming the grower feeds until havest, or the growing medium has been augmented with extra nutrients, the plant will eventually finish even if it doesn't get starved to death. Most strains are meant to flower and die because from an evolutionary sense in the wild, they flower in late summer and die during fall.

To me, unless growing with strictly synthetics, why flush? Unless that "flush" happens to the be the couple weeks between feedings.

Nice, thanks for the detailed response. It does seem logical that a little salt wouldn't hurt a strong soil web. When I add food to the compost I throw in most everything, even stuff with a little salt or fat. The compost is full of worms and stays warm in the winter, so it makes sense that a little bit wouldn't effect the outcome of the plant.

Oh and my soil is made up of:

Coco Coir
Composted pine bark
Biodynamic Compost (composted cotton gin waste, virgin pine peelings, penut byproducts, green waste, chicken shit, peat humus, granite dust, chamomille, yarrow, dandelion, valerian flowers, stinging nettles, oak bark, and equisetum)
Bone Meal 6-9-0
Budswell 0-7-0
Green Sand
Vermiculite

I forgot the ratio, but it was mostly compost, composted pine bark, and vermiculite. In that order.

+rep to all w/ good advice

 

[MrBaker]

...It does seem logical that a little salt wouldn't hurt a strong soil web. When I add food to the compost I throw in most everything, even stuff with a little salt or fat. The compost is full of worms and stays warm in the winter, so it makes sense that a little bit wouldn't effect the outcome of the plant.

Oh and my soil is made up of:

Coco Coir
Composted pine bark
Biodynamic Compost (composted cotton gin waste, virgin pine peelings, penut byproducts, green waste, chicken shit, peat humus, granite dust, chamomille, yarrow, dandelion, valerian flowers, stinging nettles, oak bark, and equisetum)
Bone Meal 6-9-0
Budswell 0-7-0
Green Sand
Vermiculite

I forgot the ratio, but it was mostly compost, composted pine bark, and vermiculite. In that order.

+rep to all w/ good advice

I wouldn't worry about any unwanted synthetics with the system you have in place. If you grow in pots, rinse the pots after harvest; which you probably do anyway.

If you've got a feel for when the plant is going to finish, you can probably just give it water for the last couple weeks. I say this because your soil is probably full of food and I think I read that you were feeding pretty frequently.

Go with what your gut says on this one, since there is probably food in the soil and your system can deal with synthetic salts.

 

[thebeerstalkin]

jerry is wrong. of course everyone knows nitrogen puts green in your leaves. and everyone should know that of course you want your leaves as green as could be but you only want that up until the last part of the cycle when nitrogen isn't needed after the calyxes have florally formed. Jerry Garcia is stuck in the 70's with your techniques and unflushed weed because any good grower can tell you that you want your leaves to yellow.

 

[burninjay]

I was only 3 in 1979, but maybe I'm stuck there as well...

If the plant didn't need nitrogen, why the hell would it be sacrificing it's only sources of energy to get more of it?
Intentionally yellowing your leaves just makes poor botanical sense.

 

[thebeerstalkin]

no its the end of its life cycle. why would you be feeding something that is supposed to be dying off alive? The plant is finishing. Like all annuals they are supposed to die off at somepoint. Leaves yellowing is part of the plants life cycle just like in the fall trees leaves change color and fall off before starting over, doesn't mean you need to go out and feed them nitrogen. Nitrogen and bud size has to do when its forming in the first 6 weeks of flowering, then its just excess. its just botanical sense

 

[burninjay]

Agreed, some plants drop their foliage at the end of their life cycle..... but they still have access to nutrients in the soil at this point. If your logic was at all sound, the cannabis would yellow and drop it's foliage even while being fed a balanced nutrient schedule. Marijuana doesn't yellow and drop it's foliage unless it's nutrient deficient, at which point it will take back it's own flesh to feed itself to produce more reproductive organs.

Cannabis is not immune to science.

Maybe I should point out that I'm not talking about the end of the plant's life cycle. I'm talking about when we want to harvest the plant. Typically speaking, we aim to harvest our buds well before the plant is going to end it's natural season.

 

[venality]

Flushing reminds me of the Ortolan.
http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/ortolan_recipe.html
It seems psychological.

 

[Cow Tea]

Agreed, some plants drop their foliage at the end of their life cycle..... but they still have access to nutrients in the soil at this point. If your logic was at all sound, the cannabis would yellow and drop it's foliage even while being fed a balanced nutrient schedule. Marijuana doesn't yellow and drop it's foliage unless it's nutrient deficient, at which point it will take back it's own flesh to feed itself to produce more reproductive organs.

Cannabis is not immune to science.

Maybe I should point out that I'm not talking about the end of the plant's life cycle. I'm talking about when we want to harvest the plant. Typically speaking, we aim to harvest our buds well before the plant is going to end it's natural season.

Very good point. Annuals turn yellow and die when it gets too cold, not because of N deficiancy. Will cannabis die if it's environmental conditions are kept the same and the plant is not harvested?

 

[Wetdog]

Very good point. Annuals turn yellow and die when it gets too cold, not because of N deficiancy. Will cannabis die if it's environmental conditions are kept the same and the plant is not harvested?

Mother plants are kept for years under constant veg conditions, 18/6 lighting and so on. Thinks it's still high summer.

12/12, I would imagine the plant would finish and die, but as was said, we harvest before that point.

Wet

 

[thebeerstalkin]

hope you guys enjoy your nasty weed

 

[burninjay]

hope you guys enjoy your nasty weed

Flushing your plant wasn't what I was arguing against. Letting your plant starve was. A well fed, healthy plant can keep it's leaves thru a flush just fine without looking all half-dead.

 

[thebeerstalkin]

you don't have to have a dead plant drying in your pot. but it should be yellowing out by the time you cut it

 

[thebeerstalkin]

You guys are wrong marijuana is a deciduous and its supposed to shed when its mature and ripe. When you have all that chlorophyll in the leaves, keeping them green at harvest, all that chlorophyll can't break down like its supposed to during its ripening cycle which keeps to much starches than pectin rippining surgars which effects the plants tissues.

 

[burninjay]

You guys are wrong marijuana is a deciduous and its supposed to shed when its mature and ripe. When you have all that chlorophyll in the leaves, keeping them green at harvest, all that chlorophyll can't break down like its supposed to during its ripening cycle which keeps to much starches than pectin rippining surgars which effects the plants tissues.

Ok buddy, I grow outdoor too. In the dirt, outside in the woods. I grow in a nice spot where there is no standing water, but the soil always stays moist. I never feed these plants any form of nutrients, the only watering they get is rain.

Tell me why, when I cut these 'deciduous' plants down, there is there not a pile of dead yellow leaves all around the plant. This is nature's work, no input from me other than popping the seed and growing it inside til it's tall enough to survive the rabbits. The whole summer and fall, it's on it's own, and ya know the damn things have green leaves when I cut them. Somebody better tell Mother Nature she's been reading the wrong forums..

Hope you enjoy your unhealthy plants.

 

[thebeerstalkin]

Your the only one imagining a pile of dead yellow leaves and a wilting plant. I see a plant with very little green in the leaves before harvest. I only use water also and i know my soil has everything it needs since I amended it myself and had it tested. Enjoy your PREMATURE weed.

 

[burninjay]

The only way I harvest premature is if the snow is gonna get them first. No point continuing the banter man, as long as we both enjoy the smoke we get off our plants, then we are doing no wrong.

Cow Tea, truly sorry to have participated in a negative exchange in your thread. I'll keep my opinions to myself from here, happy growing.

 

[Cow Tea]

I'll be sure to let everyone know how it tastes when I smoke it. One thing is for sure though: I'll be sure to better check labels of the bottles I buy. The dude at the hydro store said it was organic, but he was down talkin organic hydro (my next grow is hydro), so I don't think he really knew what he was talking about.

I'm glad to see so much passion about growing.

 

[Cow Tea]

I gave her some water the other day, and she's still doing good. She's not the frostiest girl I've ever seen, but what can you expect from a bagseed? Her mother wasn't all that great. I think I paid 65 for a half. I'm gonna keep giving her straight water the rest of the grow.

*edit - I'm not completely blaming her genes for lack of frost. I had to move her a few times, turn off lights and fans when landlord came by, I grew her mostly in a 20% humidity environment, up until recently when I built her new cab in a place where I dont have to worry about the landlord or anyone.