Overpriced Nutrients..get better nutrients for a lower price
- Thread starter HomeGrown420baby
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Am I Norml
Active Member
I thought we all smoked weed...not crack...oh well ill just sip this coffee and watch y'all beat each other up verbally
oh and seriously... for a proper wake-n-bake you need to put the coffee in the bong
oh and seriously... for a proper wake-n-bake you need to put the coffee in the bong
Jack in the Bud
Active Member
patlpp,
I gave that link the once over and my opinion (for what ever it may be worth to you) is that this is some more of that seriously over hyped snake oil.
I couldn't even find where they gave the products NPK ratio let alone any other actual analysis of what's in it other than some broad sweeping claim that it has amino acids, enzymes, vitamins and sugars (but which ones). Besides not telling you what level of macro-nutrients are in it I didn't see any mention of what micro-nutrients might be in it.
For the life of me I don't know how a person could go about figuring out how to use this stuff to best advantage. If your plants developed any signs of nute burn or nute deficiencies how could you logically go about adjusting the dose to try and correct the problem if you don't know exactly what's in it?
And at 19,95 Euros (around $29 US) for 110 grams that's some pretty spendy stuff. I think a person (especially those just learning to grow) would be much better off just using standard MiracleGrow plant food (and some other basic supplements). At least they tell you exactly what's in it.
Jack out.
"Be polite, be professional. But also always be prepared (and have a plan) to kill every one you meet."
patlpp
New Member
Thanks Jack. I misread this stuff. I thought it was a high concentrate where it dilutes into 25 gallons of regular nutes !! No way would I buy this otherwise. They do look shady though don't they?
Jack in the Bud
Active Member
patlpp,
It is a high concentrate that dillutes to make 25 US gallons. They just don't say exactly what it's a high concentration of. And there's just no way of knowing what levels of what stuff will be in a prepared gallon of the stuff.
Jack
fatman7574
New Member
Doc111 with you as a pal I would have to watch my back constantly. No thanks child your offer is rejected even though you pulled the reply the answer was no before and is no now. You say this forum is your home. I thought your home was that dark corner of your mommy's basement. Your lack of sincerity is appalling. Go try your childish card trick games of practiced pretend civility and false displays of humility on a children's site rather than here. Someone might buy in to your shallow offers of friendship and conciliation on a children's site. Here that just gives an appearance of a pathetic, shallow individual who enjoys playing social games. Your going back and deleting your posts does not help your forum appearance one bit child.
Jack in the Bud
Active Member
fatman7574
New Member
The cost of making the RO water for my self mixed two part nutrients cost more than the fertilizer it contains even when mixed to a high EC (2.7). Even the most expensive nutes made with a load of amino acids should still cost no more to mix than about $30 a gallon for a 100X concentrate. If you make your own RO water with a standard small RO filter it typically takes 4 to 5 gallons to make one gallon of filtered water. If it takes five gallons at 3 cents per each filtered gallon of RO water and you run high EC hydro nutrients with amino acid mixed your self the cost of the water would 1/2 as the fertilizer used. 
If using an AN nutrient with amino acids the fertilizer would cost over 8 times the cost of producing the RO water used to mix the nutrients. Kinda gives one a bitter taste in the mouth when you look at the AN price of over $125 a gallon for a formulation with amino acids. So no matter how you look at it, the cost of using a AN formulation with amino acids is about four the cost of mixing your own. Or look at their cost of amino acid supplemented fertilizer versus regular fertilizer and realise it costs merely $25 for the amino acids. Go figure.
Amino acids:
http://www.super-grow.biz/Amino.jsp
In case you did not notice though the amino acid is about 45% ammonium chloride. Which means about bout 22% ammonical nitrogen. This means if you add the acid mix at half strength you will be adding about 110 ppm of ammonical nitrogen to a hydroponic solution. To keep the ammonical nitrogen below the typical maximum recommended for hydroponics you would need to be using one of the high nitrogen fertilizers such as Dyna-Gro Foliage-Pro or some other with a 6% or higher nitrogen analysis. For soil grows it would not really matter. Or simply lower the amount used to less than the maiximum recommended strength. Often a wise choice anyway with hydroponics.
If using an AN nutrient with amino acids the fertilizer would cost over 8 times the cost of producing the RO water used to mix the nutrients. Kinda gives one a bitter taste in the mouth when you look at the AN price of over $125 a gallon for a formulation with amino acids. So no matter how you look at it, the cost of using a AN formulation with amino acids is about four the cost of mixing your own. Or look at their cost of amino acid supplemented fertilizer versus regular fertilizer and realise it costs merely $25 for the amino acids. Go figure.
Amino acids:
http://www.super-grow.biz/Amino.jsp
In case you did not notice though the amino acid is about 45% ammonium chloride. Which means about bout 22% ammonical nitrogen. This means if you add the acid mix at half strength you will be adding about 110 ppm of ammonical nitrogen to a hydroponic solution. To keep the ammonical nitrogen below the typical maximum recommended for hydroponics you would need to be using one of the high nitrogen fertilizers such as Dyna-Gro Foliage-Pro or some other with a 6% or higher nitrogen analysis. For soil grows it would not really matter. Or simply lower the amount used to less than the maiximum recommended strength. Often a wise choice anyway with hydroponics.
patlpp
New Member
Great site Fatman thanks. I ordered about 30$ of products for the father-in-law who works maybe 7 acres as a hobby. He is an Internet-phobe so I will have to print out all the info for him. Do you have other similar sites up your sleeves? Never again (I hope) will I buy nutes from a hydro store. Here is what I ordered.
1 Super-Grow GrowTonic 94 - 1 Gram
1 SuperGrow RootTonic 98 - 1 Gram
1 Kelp Extract - 2 Ounces - 57 Grams
1 Compound Amino Acid Plus Fertilizer 50 - 2 Ounces - 57 Grams
1 Fulvic Acid 75% 1 Ounce - 28 Grams
1 Power Clone 1 99% 1 Gram Sample
Whats 30$ in hydro !!! Imagine the retail cost.
1 Super-Grow GrowTonic 94 - 1 Gram
1 SuperGrow RootTonic 98 - 1 Gram
1 Kelp Extract - 2 Ounces - 57 Grams
1 Compound Amino Acid Plus Fertilizer 50 - 2 Ounces - 57 Grams
1 Fulvic Acid 75% 1 Ounce - 28 Grams
1 Power Clone 1 99% 1 Gram Sample
Whats 30$ in hydro !!! Imagine the retail cost.
fatman7574
New Member
shh! It is supposed to be a secret. You wouldn't want Fat Mikie of AN to lose customers would you.
It depends where your located. Crop King is not a bad place if you want to mix your own nutrients.
http://www.cropking.com/HydroponicSupplies/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=264_268&zenid=3b16a8ea0b218b8dcc7d8915b8cc7466
The prices may seem high but consider that the major nutrients make up nearly all the weight and most of the fertilizers are around $1.25 per pound or less , with one running $5 per pound but it contains a very high percentage of two fertilizers. Then consider that a typical gallon of hydroponic fertilizer only contains about 2 to 2.25 pounds of fertilizer. And Crop King is a retail site. Fran suppliers charge about 50 to 60% of the retail prices for small quantity purchases of single bags.
For about $500 You can easily put together over 30 gallons of two part concentrated liquid fertilizer and except for the monopotassium phosphate still have enough of the other fertilizers for about 25 gallons more, and then still have most of your micro nutrients. Add about $6 to $12 worth of amino acids to half of those gallons and your talking some retail money. Then consider again that farm supply outfits are even cheaper.
CrackerJax
New Member
The EASIEST way...unless you like spending labor hours making your own... (my time is a bit too valuable to mess with it), simply set up a wholesale account and buy Nursery grade fert's. When you add in your time and labor...it's far easier to pic up the phone and have it drop shipped to your door.....and it is cheap.
Yes, of course as everyone should know...the hydro business is there to maximize it's profits, like any other business would. The nursery/farm business has far too much competition/volume to make prices obscenely high. Not so with hydro supply.
Absolutely any combination in fertilizer is available through the AG business. Set up a corp. it's not hard...and buy wholesale.
Yes, of course as everyone should know...the hydro business is there to maximize it's profits, like any other business would. The nursery/farm business has far too much competition/volume to make prices obscenely high. Not so with hydro supply.
Absolutely any combination in fertilizer is available through the AG business. Set up a corp. it's not hard...and buy wholesale.
doc111
Well-Known Member
The hydro industry knows who's purchasing its ferts too (which accounts for the high price).
CrackerJax
New Member
That's exactly true.... no one spends 2-5k to grow 40 tomato plants...
Know ur customer. PT Barnum would be very proud.
Know ur customer. PT Barnum would be very proud.
doc111
Well-Known Member
First off, I was being sincere. If I wasn't I wouldn't have offered. That's fine if you don't want to make nice and be friends. I have no interest in continuing this little feud. If you do that's fine. People make mistakes and I am no exception. I apologize for my part in this little fight. I'm sorry if you can't see my sincerity but there's not much more I can do. I don't know why you think I deleted anything. The mods came in and deleted a bunch of stuff. I have never deleted a post. Ever! I rarely even edit them (unless I see a typo or grammatical error). Again, I am sorry for my role in all of this. If you want to continue fighting you will have to do it with yourself because I'm done with this.
Jack in the Bud
Active Member
fatman,The cost of making the RO water for my self mixed two part nutrients cost more than the fertilizer it contains even when mixed to a high EC (2.7). Even the most expensive nutes made with a load of amino acids should still cost no more to mix than about $30 a gallon for a 100X concentrate. If you make your own RO water with a standard small RO filter it typically takes 4 to 5 gallons to make one gallon of filtered water. If it takes five gallons at 3 cents per each filtered gallon of RO water and you run high EC hydro nutrients with amino acid mixed your self the cost of the water would 1/2 as the fertilizer used.
If using an AN nutrient with amino acids the fertilizer would cost over 8 times the cost of producing the RO water used to mix the nutrients. Kinda gives one a bitter taste in the mouth when you look at the AN price of over $125 a gallon for a formulation with amino acids. So no matter how you look at it, the cost of using a AN formulation with amino acids is about four the cost of mixing your own. Or look at their cost of amino acid supplemented fertilizer versus regular fertilizer and realise it costs merely $25 for the amino acids. Go figure.
Amino acids:
http://www.super-grow.biz/Amino.jsp
Ye Gods man! For some one who supposedly has a Phd. in Civil Engineering your math skills don't appear to be all that good.
If you use 5 gallons of RO water (at a cost of 3 cents per gallon) to make up a batch of "mix" that also contains $30 worth of nutes the cost of your water is no where close to being 1/2 your total cost. Your total water cost is only 15 cents. Which is only .0049751 (.49751%) of your total cost.
In other words if you make up a mix that has $0.15 worth of water in it and $30.00 worth of nutes (total cost $30.15) the water represents less than 1/2 of 1% of what you spent on it.
Apparently the reason you think it represents 1/2 your costs is because you don't understand how to move a decimal point around.
Which by the way probably explains why you think you make a 6 figure salary. I'm guessing that the only way you could claim a 6 figure income (and be truthful about it) is if you counted the 2 figures to the right of the decimal point.
Personally I don't have any experience with hydroponics but I am pretty good at recognizing gibberish (and bad math)when I hear it (and the rest of that post pretty much sounds more like gibberish than any thing else to me).
Jack
"Well you got in some trouble in High School,
But you feel like a new man today.
You keep to yourself,
Because every one else,
Would just as soon blow you away."
(Robert Earl Keen)
patlpp
New Member
fatman7574
New Member
Dude use your head for something other than sucking smoke. Learn to comprehend English and use all information giving as you trip your way through the simple math. Remember word problems in Math. They started in grade school and never went away. You would think you were not stoned at least long enough as a child to learn how to structure your equations using the data given in sentences.
1 gallon of 100X fertilizer concentrate gets diluted with at least 100 gallons if using an EC of about 2.7. A typical RO membrane (regardless of the lies told by most marketers) uses five gallons to make 1 gallon of filtered water. So now were up to 15 cents per gallon for the RO water used in each of 100 gallons of the nutrients. Still following that Jack?. At $30 per 100x concentrate gallons that means 30 cents per each 100 gallons of diluted nutrients. Still following that Jack. So 15 cents per gallon for water and 30 cents per gallon for fertilizer. Got that yet Jack?
Think before you open your blow hole. Oh that's right your only speaking out of your blow hole in this thread.
As far as mixing the nute Crackerjax. The labor time involved is about about 1 hour every 3 or 4 months.
I get exactly what I want, in what ever concentration I want at extremely low prices. Cost is about $4 per each 100X gallon of concentrates for standrad tow part forn mulations without amino acids. Even with COOP buying no supplier will meet yet alone beat such a price. And I know I have exceptional quality control. I also have every thing on hand to add what my plants might need at any time as I always have every thing on hand.
Jack in the Bud
Active Member
patlpp,
If your initial gallon of 100x concentrate costs you $30.15 to make up and you then use another 100 gallons of RO water (at .03 / gallon) to dilute it before using it your total cost still only comes to $33.15. Of which only $3.15 represents the cost of the water.
$3.15 (the total cost of all the water used) is only 9.5% of $33.15. Still no where close to being 1/2 of your total costs.
I understand that you're looking for more knowledge about hydroponic growing (and I wouldn't mind a little more knowledge in that area myself) but I can tell you almost with out a doubt (based on general life experience) that the "fatman" (more likely a "pudgy boy") is not the person to look to for it.
From all appearances this is some one who's pretending to have a lot more understanding and knowledge about some thing than what he actually has.
Jack
patlpp
New Member
Don't worry Jack, I can take care of myself.
1) If the man has 30$ of 100x concentrate, that equates to 30 cents a gallon DILUTED . (30/100) = .30
2) Lets add 100 gallons of water to the 100x concentrate, THE WATER COSTS 15 cents/gal (remember there is 4-5 gal run-off when producing RO) . That equates to 15$ of RO water not .03c. So (.15 * 100) = $15
3) What you have then is 100 gal of 1X concentrate. ($30) and 100 gal water ($15) 15/30 * 100 = 50%
Now at least in your latest post here your at admitting 10% of the cost in water instead of .00498 in your previous post. But this time you failed to consider the total cost to process the RO water.
I know your trying to save face but you need to man up and apologize to Fatman.