CrackerJax
New Member
Medicare is a mess. If you don't know that.... your not paying attention...or you have bad sources.
The rest is drivel ... no comment.
I may have to start watching this dyke more often!
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The rest is drivel ... no comment.
EsmeWeatherwax
Member
Yes medicare is a mess thanks to Bush, it costs the tax payer 14% more to gt the same services through a private insurer than it did when it was administered by the govt. They also made it so the US govt, the lagest buyer of Rx drugs in the world can't negotiate for better prices from big pharma, how stupid is that.
EsmeWeatherwax
Member
There is also a simple solution for anyone that does not want to pay taxes, LEAVE, no one is keeping you here.
Leothwyn
Well-Known Member
It doesn't seem very realistic to use medicare as an example of how successful/unsuccessful a bigger gov. run healthcare might be. Medicare takes all of the old and sick people that big insurance business do not want - because they are unprofitable. The profit is in the young, healthy people who pay for insurance. If there was a private insurance company that had to only deal with old and sick people, how successful would they be? How expensive would coverage have to be for them to be profitable?
If young, healthy people were allowed to buy in to medicare, it might end up being quite successful.
I'm not saying that letting the gov. take over healthcare will be some sort of panacea; just that the medicare example of gov. healthcare as a failure doesn't fly IMO.
If young, healthy people were allowed to buy in to medicare, it might end up being quite successful.
I'm not saying that letting the gov. take over healthcare will be some sort of panacea; just that the medicare example of gov. healthcare as a failure doesn't fly IMO.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
At what point do you think taxation is excessive? For instance if 30% of your income goes towards taxes, would you be okay with 40%, 75%, 100% ? When do you think it's too high?
EsmeWeatherwax
Member
Taxes have been going down for years, a lot lower for the rich though. The main problem is the tax burden it used to be 60 40 with corporations paying 60% now it is backwards and we are paying 60%. The top bracket for the rich used to be in the 90% range now it is down to the 30s. I have no problem paying taxes, it is a small price to pay to live here. What I don't like is the rich and the corporations buying politicians so they will change the tax code for them. Or moving there head offices offshore so they do not have to pax taxes, like Haliberton quite happy to take our tax money but not willing to pay any.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
So if your taxes were 90% of your income you would accept it?
EsmeWeatherwax
Member
If I was in the top 3% of erners sure. The problem is the trickle down theory is BS. The idea that someoe would not want to make more because they are taxed more is BS. Greed has taken over this country and it is sad, when is it enough, you have CEO's making billions. The top tax rate is in the high 30% range for top earners but they only paid an average of 16% due to all the write offs. It costs money to run this country and somone has to pay for it, why not the ones that have benifited the most.
dukeofbaja
New Member
Hope things are going well, Rob Roy, legally speaking.
I don't mind paying 20% or little more of my income towards income taxes righ tnow. I just wish they would use them a little better. You have to keep this in mind....
Take away 50% of the wealth of a man making a billion, he still has a half a million.
Take away 50% of the wealth of a man making $50,000, and they are living check to check.
I think we should tax the living fucking shit out of those who control most of the wealth (I'm sure it is worse now, but last time I checked, the top 5% controls 95% of the money). Why? Because we fucking can, without feeling bad about it. What I hate is how silly the money is used. Like millions upon millions of dollars to peresecute people for gardening. Why don't you give grandpa a health check or help send the poor kid with good grades to a decent college?
I don't mind paying 20% or little more of my income towards income taxes righ tnow. I just wish they would use them a little better. You have to keep this in mind....
Take away 50% of the wealth of a man making a billion, he still has a half a million.
Take away 50% of the wealth of a man making $50,000, and they are living check to check.
I think we should tax the living fucking shit out of those who control most of the wealth (I'm sure it is worse now, but last time I checked, the top 5% controls 95% of the money). Why? Because we fucking can, without feeling bad about it. What I hate is how silly the money is used. Like millions upon millions of dollars to peresecute people for gardening. Why don't you give grandpa a health check or help send the poor kid with good grades to a decent college?
laughingduck
Well-Known Member
It's no wonder why all the jobs have gone overseas. Rob, with this way of thinking we will not last another 15 years. Lets take over Cuba and turn it into a capitalistic country. We are gonna have to have a place to go.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Thanks Duke.
Concerning "giving" grandpa a health check and sending poor kids to college.
Noble thoughts...but misguided methods.
It isn't giving, if the giving is funded by "taking". Please don't look only at one side of the equation. For government to "give" anything they must first take something away. Redistribution of goods done on an involuntary basis is not charity. Charity requires the giver to be a willing participant or theft is involved.
If I rob your house and sell all of your family heirlooms, pay myself some money and then take SOME of the proceeds and give it away to the needy, let's not forget how I acquired the means to "help the needy" in the first place.
dukeofbaja
New Member
I don't want to argue tooo much, Rob. Your sentiment rings too close to home.
What I will argue, is that people before your bought into this system of theft. They voted for elected officials who thought it was a good idea to lay down a progressive tax code enforced by law. You and I may both disagree with it, and you may gain less benefits from it than I, but nonetheless it has been determined to be a necessary evil.
If you want to pay 0% taxes, move to a place with 0% services, technology, medicine or anything else, go ahead. I gaurantee you will not like as much as you like it here
What I will argue, is that people before your bought into this system of theft. They voted for elected officials who thought it was a good idea to lay down a progressive tax code enforced by law. You and I may both disagree with it, and you may gain less benefits from it than I, but nonetheless it has been determined to be a necessary evil.
If you want to pay 0% taxes, move to a place with 0% services, technology, medicine or anything else, go ahead. I gaurantee you will not like as much as you like it here
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
What I want to do is cut out the middle man. Charity is a good thing, if a person believes in it they should do it of their own free will.
If I or anyone else wants a service, we should pay for it and not expect somebody else to. Services would still exist without taxation, it is just the METHOD of payment that changes not the level of service.
I say the more you involve a nonproductive parasitic party (government) in a transaction the less fuel there is to provide the particiular service.
Taxes fund our oppressors, never forget this.
dukeofbaja
New Member
But would we all 'donate' to higher education if not forced by the point of gun?
I wouldn't, I would keep that shit!
Yet still, I benefit from those people who sought higher education....hypocritical, I know
I wouldn't, I would keep that shit!
Yet still, I benefit from those people who sought higher education....hypocritical, I know
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
When people desire a good or service they freely purchase it. That sends the proper signal to the producers that perform, "keep doing what you are doing, people like your product etc."
It also sends the proper signal to those that don't perform, "get your act together, people don't want your service etc."
If a service is not worthy of being purchased by our free will, why would we want to be forced to subsidize it?
Higher education can happen without it being funded by taxation. Books, learning and intelligent debate and so forth are products of people, not government.
Government wants you to believe that without them, services won't exist, that's inaccurate, the services will likely be more varied and provide more choice to the consumer. The result would be... You get what you want, I get what I want, and government has to get "real jobs" where they produce rather than blood suck.
Check out how home schoolers do when compared to public school kids on standardized tests. I've heard they usually perform better than 85% .
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Thanks for being honest.
CrackerJax
New Member
Every dollar spent by the government was taken away from the private sector. Government spending never works as an economic solution to a private sector problem.
I don't believe even Obama has faith in keynesnian economics....but it does give grow the govt. That seems to be just enough for Obama to be disingenuous.
That's pretty sad.
I don't believe even Obama has faith in keynesnian economics....but it does give grow the govt. That seems to be just enough for Obama to be disingenuous.
That's pretty sad.
I would rather volunteer my time to the schools of my choice than have my money taken from me. As a home owner I am paying more than my fair share of the education budget. I feel for the people who own rental property. They get nailed twice. Plus the renter is paying more in rent because of high property tax.
tinyTURTLE
Well-Known Member
see, in a different brain, the thought of helping provide education funds by paying your property taxes would engender a sense of pride. you have chosen resentment instead. Somebody's propery taxes paid for your education and mine and pretty much everybody's. Ignorance is not OK, and your taxes help educate people in my country, thank you for helping make the USA a better place.
medicineman
New Member
That's the conservative mantra, "I've got mine, fuck you". They can't see that a society that works, helps everyone to do better. Yes, it is taxes that provide that opportunity for those that are less endowed with fortune. Somehow the conservatives that already have theirs, don't want to help anyone with less. Let's not forget there are millions that have squat. They are on some barely survival mode of government assistance. This country, once the richest on earth, (Not now I fear), should fund everyone that wants a college education, if they can pass the entrance exam, which would be predicated on the national average SAT scores. A country that only rewards the wealthy, Is a country destined for failure. Crank up your history memory and see what Unwarranted wealth and debauchery has wrought. We are well on the way to the end of that path. Government spending on the military and bailing out bankrupt businesses have decimatated the wealth of the average citizen while making the wealthiest even wealthier. A system that is hell bent on policing the world can not survive financially. I believe we have passed the tipping point, and when China starts calling in our loans, the bankruptcy signs may finally wave over Washington.