Obamacare: Every American will be required...

[SocataSmoker]

eh....it's just a matter of time before Comrade Obama hatches a plan that makes me want to flee to Russia.....at least there government oppression seems appropriate....

And at least they've got a good many years experience with it too!

LOL!

 

[klmmicro]

Looks like they may have the votes to get it. I do not doubt they will. We are about to get stuck with another 2 trillion dollars of debt (savings my ass) for a bill that 23% of the population wants. Now I kind of hope that cannabis never gets legalized...though at this rate, no one will have the money left to buy it. Wonderful day!

 

[tip top toker]

Seriously, there are so many different ways to do it better than we do now for cheaper while covering everyone. You always hear these horror stories about the NHS in England, but 90% of the folks who actually use it think it works well enough.

couldn't agree more. it's done nothing but work for me i'm more than happy to pay national insurance, it's just a given

as you say, there are most likely a lot of better ways of going about this, who am i to say what that method is, but i think part of the issue is people are about to be essentially taxed for something they previously weren't.

edit: just reading up on the start of the English NHS, there was such opposition to proposed pescription charges that led to the defeat of the Labour party in the election.

 

[dukeofbaja]

Too bad the NHS is too socialist for most Americans' liking. A lot of folks here might be more content with a system that works a bit like Germany has. Although if you are employed, that is already how our system works basically, minus the fact that if you lose your job, you lose your insurance. Come to think of it, our Medicare is a bit like your NHS.

 

[bobtokes]

the only trouble with the british nhs is we treat everyone, illegal immigrant's, people holidaying.
some people visit the uk just to get free medical care, they arrive on the plane fit and well (supposedly) the next day they collapse with some sudden illness like heart diesese, and rushed to hospital, i wish our government were a bit more conservative when spending our money on the rest of the worlds health care

 

[lowpro88]

the problem isnt that the healthcare is bad its all the extra shit that is getting passed along with it. obama n them are pretty much bribing senators for their votes making it cheaper in certain states its bull shit this system doesnt work with all these greedy politicians it used to work when politicians did it for the greater good not six houses and a bently

 

[spl1]

O-one
B-Big
A-Ass
M-Mistake
A-America

Today we have become a western European nation. Today is the day that America lost it freedom and allowed the greed and corrupt to take control of all the mindless, and spineless American's. I thought that we were the home of the free and brave???
It looks more like the home of the weak minded and needed to be told what to think and do! From here on out we as Americans no longer have the right to be free, we have the right to STFU and do what they tell us to do.

I don't remember it saying in the Constitution that we as United States citizens had to have Health Care or you must pay a fine. I also don't remember reading that we as US citizens were given the right to free health care.

I remember that Our forefathers bequeathed us a constitutional republic. They greatly feared the tyrannical tendencies of what they called "mob-acracy". Thomas Jefferson stated, "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."

In a democracy, the majority can abuse the minority, the poor can rob from the rich and the born can terrorize the unborn, because they can "out-vote" them. In a democracy, popular leaders can usurp their God-ordained limits, violate their oaths, deprive their lesser subjects of life or liberty or property without due process, and hand out tax-subsidies to citizens in exchange for ever-increasing power. The rule by men is an invention of hell, not heaven.

The Constitutional Republic our forefathers crafted was an ideal form of government designed to maximize our liberties and minimize our potential for evil. But that form of government is only as good as our devotion to Constitutional Law….As our forefathers warned, the liberties of our Constitutional Republic are only as secure as is our moral strength. The Constitution presupposes a moral people, because an immoral people will violate the Bill Of Right's and their special interest groups will cheer to see it violated. Our nation has only degraded more and more into a democracy because our leaders are in the likeness of their constituents; our leaders have violated the Constitution to which they gave an oath to protect and when they violate that oath we the citizens have not held them accountable.

Obama Idea of Democracy!!! Government by a little group of leaders. In contrast to totalitarian regimes, authoritarian regimes have no distinct state ideology and grant some amount of freedom (e.g. economic and cultural) as long as their rule is not jeopardized. The most important goal of authoritarian regimes is the maintenance of power and the personal enrichment on cost of the country and its population.

Just so all of you know the money spent on this health care bill is a loan from the federal reserve bank at 36% interest rate until it is payed back. The Fed is not apart of the USA Government like they make you believe, it is owned by a group of foreign banks.

The next move is they will be looking at your 401k money, after all it is 3 trillion dollars of untapped money for there next spending spree.

SAD DAY AMERICA

 

[doc111]

Have you guys ever noticed the 'uninsured motorist' fee on most auto insurance policies? It is no different with healthcare. You ALREADY ARE paying for the health care of Joe Blow with no insurance. That is why we pay out the ass (17% of GDP) on health care as a nation.

You're a smart guy.......how can you even make this claim? Obamacare and uninsured motorist are not even the same thing. I'm not required to carry uninsured motorist but under this b.s. I will be required to carry health insurance. The problem is that this is un-American!!!! We already have too many entitlement programs in this damn country. Why should my hard earned money go to paying for some other person who doesn't want to work? Wait, we already have this..........it's called Medicaid!!!! This healthcare reform sounds wonderful but look at the places that have tried it. Most of them are going broke! It won't matter because as soon as the govt. stops paying people's Social Security and Medicaid there will be a fucking uprising and chaos will ensue. The weak will be killed off and the cycle continues..........just the way it has since the beginning of time. Take a history class and learn why so many people are opposed to this shit.

 

[dukeofbaja]

I'm not required to carry uninsured motorist but under this b.s. I will be required to carry health insurance.

True, uninsured motorist is not required but auto insurance sure is. Is that so 'un-American'? I'm sure there are a lot of good drivers out there who think they have no need for it, yet are still required ot buy it. Why? It is the responsible thing to do. Just like ensuring the health of our citizenry.

And where are all these places that have tried it and gone broke? What I see is that every other indistrialized nation ensures universal healthcare, pays less, and is stuck with an enviable problem: They may have to increase their spending to 9-11% to keep things going. We are currently spending 17% and just getting worse.

YOu need to take a breath, medicate, and ask yourself what the fuck you are truly rallying against. And then speak to some of our UK or German friends on this forum what they think of their government run, universal healthcare

 

[tip top toker]

wooooooooooooooo, obamacare

now people can stop bitchiung about what they think it's all about and sit back, poop ya feet on a stool, and see what actually happens.

 

[undertheice]

wooooooooooooooo, obamacare

now people can stop bitching about what they think it's all about and sit back, poop ya feet on a stool, and see what actually happens.

very little is going to happen. government will be taking a slightly larger chunk of the common man's paycheck for their various boondoggles, government payrolls will increase once again, medical care will become ever more expensive, mandatory health insurance is just another meaningless law i'm going to be breaking on a daily basis, and the welfare state will continue to grow. our march toward the european example of mediocrity will continue unabated.

 

[doc111]

True, uninsured motorist is not required but auto insurance sure is. Is that so 'un-American'? I'm sure there are a lot of good drivers out there who think they have no need for it, yet are still required ot buy it. Why? It is the responsible thing to do. Just like ensuring the health of our citizenry.

And where are all these places that have tried it and gone broke? What I see is that every other indistrialized nation ensures universal healthcare, pays less, and is stuck with an enviable problem: They may have to increase their spending to 9-11% to keep things going. We are currently spending 17% and just getting worse.

YOu need to take a breath, medicate, and ask yourself what the fuck you are truly rallying against. And then speak to some of our UK or German friends on this forum what they think of their government run, universal healthcare

The Europeans who love it have either never been really sick or they haven't had a loved one get really sick. Europe is in big trouble. Greece has recently suffered a severe collapse and the E.U. will soon suffer from the fallout. There may even be a domino effect. We just don't know but it's not good. Massachusettes, which is supposed to be the model on which Obamacare was designed is in a huge financial crisis because of.............you guessed it! Universal healthcare! I've said it before and I will continue to say it, I would be behind this bill if I thought it would help. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter now because it's passed. We'll see what happens next. I don't expect the house to burn down immediately but I think it will eventually. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. I don't want bad things to happen because of this bill. But have we learned nothing from the past? There are always unintended consequences and many will be hurt because of this. You don't have to be a fortune teller to see that. I want you to know that I had a serious accident as a result of an on the job injury. I was covered by work comp for a couple of years then they dropped me without warning. I found out when I went to pick up a prescription and had to pay out of pocket. I hired a lawyer (which I couldn't afford) and fought them. I walked away with a paltry sum which far from pays my medical costs. I will need medication and treatment for the rest of my life because of this accident. This is an example of how the govt. will treat its people. I was a govt. employee and this was state run work comp. I know firsthand how people are treated by the govt. when it comes to healthcare. This is one of the reasons I'm so opposed to this...........I have actually dealt with it! The fire dept. and the community awarded me a medal for bravery for my actions which led to my injury. Unfortunately I took it to a pawn broker and he said he'd give me 20 bucks for it. If a firefighter who was injured in the line of duty while trying to save a life is treated in this way, what do you think is in store for the rest of us? BTW, here is a link you might be interested in:


http://econ.economicshelp.org/2009/06/health-care-spending-in-uk.html

 

[tip top toker]

The Europeans who love it have either never been really sick or they haven't had a loved one get really sick. Europe is in big trouble. Greece has recently suffered a severe collapse and the E.U. will soon suffer from the fallout. There may even be a domino effect. We just don't know but it's not good. Massachusettes, which is supposed to be the model on which Obamacare was designed is in a huge financial crisis because of.............you guessed it! Universal healthcare! I've said it before and I will continue to say it, I would be behind this bill if I thought it would help. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter now because it's passed. We'll see what happens next. I don't expect the house to burn down immediately but I think it will eventually. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. I don't want bad things to happen because of this bill. But have we learned nothing from the past? There are always unintended consequences and many will be hurt because of this. You don't have to be a fortune teller to see that. I want you to know that I had a serious accident as a result of an on the job injury. I was covered by work comp for a couple of years then they dropped me without warning. I found out when I went to pick up a prescription and had to pay out of pocket. I hired a lawyer (which I couldn't afford) and fought them. I walked away with a paltry sum which far from pays my medical costs. I will need medication and treatment for the rest of my life because of this accident. This is an example of how the govt. will treat its people. I was a govt. employee and this was state run work comp. I know firsthand how people are treated by the govt. when it comes to healthcare. This is one of the reasons I'm so opposed to this...........I have actually dealt with it! The fire dept. and the community awarded me a medal for bravery for my actions which led to my injury. Unfortunately I took it to a pawn broker and he said he'd give me 20 bucks for it. If a firefighter who was injured in the line of duty while trying to save a life is treated in this way, what do you think is in store for the rest of us? BTW, here is a link you might be interested in:


http://econ.economicshelp.org/2009/06/health-care-spending-in-uk.html

of course, how silly of me. i of course dont know what i'm talking about.

eanrly every memebr of my family has been into the NHS for pretty serious problems ranging from coma's etc, my father had to be in there for a long time for heart problems, heart attacks etc, and you know what, they did a fecking brilliant job and i am more than proud of how they treated the family and the people being admitted...

so keep on preaching simple or extreme, family friends or myself, never had issue or reason to complain.

but hey, someones heart stopping in the ICU is never a big issue to worry a family member..

 

[doc111]

of course, how silly of me. i of course dont know what i'm talking about.

eanrly every memebr of my family has been into the NHS for pretty serious problems ranging from coma's etc, my father had to be in there for a long time for heart problems, heart attacks etc, and you know what, they did a fecking brilliant job and i am more than proud of how they treated the family and the people being admitted...

so keep on preaching simple or extreme, family friends or myself, never had issue or reason to complain.

but hey, someones heart stopping in the ICU is never a big issue to worry a family member..

That's a good point actually. Let's keep in mind that you are one person in a country of several million (I never said that everybody will have a bad experience or suffer from shitty care). Heart issues are typically acute in nature and in most cases I think socialized medicine will treat those folks just fine. Cancer patients, people needing organ transplants, people with many chronic issues may and do sometimes suffer at the hands of govt. run healthcare. The u.k. is in the beginnings of a real financial crisis in large part because of healthcare. Tell me why socialized medicine hasn't done anything to address the cost of healthcare. If you look at the website I provided the link to, you will see that healthcare costs have outpaced inflation by almost the same rate as here in the U.S. I thought it was supposed to keep costs down. Maybe our politicians just overlooked that little tidbit because they are telling us over and over that this will lower cost. I'm glad you and your family are happy with your healthcare. The vast majority of folks here don't want it. We want the root cause (of high cost) more closely examined. We don't want to be forced into this under threat of fines and prison. I've said all along that I think there is a problem and I'd like to see some reform but this is insanity and I don't think it will have a positive net effect on quality, cost or accessibility. Again, I hope I'm wrong and in 10 years you can say "I told ya so!" if I am. I don't think I will be though.

 

[doc111]

True, uninsured motorist is not required but auto insurance sure is. Is that so 'un-American'? I'm sure there are a lot of good drivers out there who think they have no need for it, yet are still required ot buy it. Why? It is the responsible thing to do. Just like ensuring the health of our citizenry.

And where are all these places that have tried it and gone broke? What I see is that every other indistrialized nation ensures universal healthcare, pays less, and is stuck with an enviable problem: They may have to increase their spending to 9-11% to keep things going. We are currently spending 17% and just getting worse.

YOu need to take a breath, medicate, and ask yourself what the fuck you are truly rallying against. And then speak to some of our UK or German friends on this forum what they think of their government run, universal healthcare

I also wanted to point out that auto insurance is required in order to protect other people from loss. Home owners insurance is required by law in order to protect the bank in event of a loss (You only have to have homeowners insurance if you have a mortgage). Forcing people to have health insurance doesn't protect anybody except the individual. The theory in forcing everyone to have health coverage is to force more healthy people to have coverage thereby watering down the cost carrying the elderly and infirm. In other words, the larger the group, the better the ability to absorb cost and you will have a relative fewer number of people needing care since more young healthy people will be insured.

Mainly, I just wanted to point out that your example of forced auto coverage was not a good one because the law is to protect the other guy, not you. Health insurance doesn't protect the other guy.

 

[ToKeDAILY]

come on people its really not that bad, the uk has been doing it for years. its not like the fucking SS will come knocking on your door and rape your wife and de-flower your daughter if you dont pay for it. Its not required that you have the insurance but if you dont have it they will fine you, and again that ticket isnt that bad either, without insurance is still cheaper than having it.

 

[Keenly]

time to start getting paid under the table, i will not be purchasing this "mandatory" insurance for many years


im fucking 20 years old i dont need it, yet big government thinks they have the right to tell me what i have to buy

 

[doc111]

come on people its really not that bad, the uk has been doing it for years. its not like the fucking SS will come knocking on your door and rape your wife and de-flower your daughter if you dont pay for it. Its not required that you have the insurance but if you dont have it they will fine you, and again that ticket isnt that bad either, without insurance is still cheaper than having it.

I'm glad you think it's not that bad but only time will tell how this is going to work out here in the U.S. We aren't the U.K. We fled Europe and revolted because we wanted liberty. There really isn't any place left for those of us who don't want this shoved down our throats to go. Yet there are many places where the people who want this could go.

I'm just sayin'

 

[Keenly]

if they took out the "mandatory" part i wouldnt be so bothered by it



thats the problem though


why, exactly do i HAVE to purchase health insurance, who is anyone to tell me what i have to buy


i cant wait to hear the logic behind this one

 

[tip top toker]

That's a good point actually. Let's keep in mind that you are one person in a country of several million (I never said that everybody will have a bad experience or suffer from shitty care). Heart issues are typically acute in nature and in most cases I think socialized medicine will treat those folks just fine. Cancer patients, people needing organ transplants, people with many chronic issues may and do sometimes suffer at the hands of govt. run healthcare. The u.k. is in the beginnings of a real financial crisis in large part because of healthcare. Tell me why socialized medicine hasn't done anything to address the cost of healthcare. If you look at the website I provided the link to, you will see that healthcare costs have outpaced inflation by almost the same rate as here in the U.S. I thought it was supposed to keep costs down. Maybe our politicians just overlooked that little tidbit because they are telling us over and over that this will lower cost. I'm glad you and your family are happy with your healthcare. The vast majority of folks here don't want it. We want the root cause (of high cost) more closely examined. We don't want to be forced into this under threat of fines and prison. I've said all along that I think there is a problem and I'd like to see some reform but this is insanity and I don't think it will have a positive net effect on quality, cost or accessibility. Again, I hope I'm wrong and in 10 years you can say "I told ya so!" if I am. I don't think I will be though.

one out of one so far. 100% of the study must therefore prove!

don't ask me to defend my government and the way it runs the NHS, i can't, the government in the UK is an utter and total pile of wank. i do not vote because there is simply no viable option

in terms of weed, what government sacks the head of the drug council because he told the truth. i cannot defend my current government in any small way.

we don't have all these big debates about who's doing what bad promises oh yeah some good but wait.. stuff, we just know our politicians are walking shits all they do is say the opposit of each other regardless of the point or whether it makes them wrong. i dare say it but the parties like UKIP and BNP are the only ones actually bringing worthy issues to the table. the big boys just bicker with each other the country be damned


back to american political banter, my bad