Why we really aren't going to the moon....

[raverguy]

I don't cotton to all that Bush did.... although I could take that argument aprt piece by piece, I'll let it slide, because the past is the past.

This is the future however. Now Obama has sealed our economic fate with health care welfare and other entitlements (which produce ZERO jobs).

This however, is the worst thing I have come across that Obama has done. The biggest crime against the American ppl ever.... heck, the entire planet would have benefited to no end!!! It's hard to comprehend what Obama has taken away from us.

Bush did the right thing by us with this space program commercial venture. he sure wasn't perfect, but he was always thinking of how to move the country FORWARD.

Obama is intent on keeping us all BACKWARD!

He needs to go in 2012. We cannot afford such a wasteful person in such a high office.

EDIT: Okay, let me clarify the issue for you.

Helium-3 is a radiation FREE isotope which does not exist on earth...at all. It will give the entire planet at least 400 years of totally CLEAN FUSION energy! No need for Yucca Mountain (another hideous scandal) storage of spent uranium.... it's CLEAN and not radioactive. It's the next GIANT leap in energy. Obama knows this and has DENIED it to us ALL! Criminal!!

past is the past???? Americans are still dying over there today, tomorrow and not even u knows for how long....

the economy is still in the shitter and somehow thats the past???

ill concider looking at obama as a criminal when u put bush in prison...

maybe we are letting the china build the staging area and test our ships before we get there.... for once we can copy them

its not like obama said he was cutting all funding of nasa...

 

[Sure Shot]

So the moon has an abundant energy source, awesome!
But, we won't feasibly be able to process it for 30 years, damn!
Well then, I guess it would be reasonable to wait on spending money on a hypothetical transport system, just so we can beat China. China who has more money to throw around then we do.

I wonder what we would do with said Isotope while waiting for the technology to catch up to the idea.
Stockpile? Of moon dust?

What do we have to fear from China getting there first? 2nd place trophy in a race of pride, no thanks.
If it is as clean and pure as claimed then there is no rush other then for want of control.
So who is really worried about control?

It sounds to me that Obama made a sound fiscal decision, period.

What justification is there for getting H3 before we can use it? And on top of that, forcing tax payers to pay for it?

 

[CrackerJax]

Forgive me Lord, I am about to a "Paddy". (some of you will get that, some won't)

come on cracker! this is not an either/or situation. taking all those metric tons from the mass of the moon is just asking to throw thing out of balance... i can see it now "reduced moon mass sends earths natural satellite out of historic orbit" ha ha ha ha. then we can REALLY worry about climate change ha ha ha

seriously, making this an either/or question is not seeing the bigger picture.

The amount of material actually taken away from the moon would be minute compared to it's totality. Uhhh, pretty sure they have ALREADY thought about it. They are rocket scientists after all.... It's not like Al Gore is in charge.....

what political experiences do you have cracker, other than forum blathering. i have no idea if you were born in the US or how old you are(or will be in 2yrs). i would vote for someone who delivered a speech like that, but if i knew it was you id vote for obama again just to twist your panties. your speech wouldnt be anything like that though. your hired speech writers would pull it apart and the illuminati would still have their hand up your ass(so to speek). im almost to a point where im no longer cocerned with the direction this country is going. im just going to keep floating allong not giving a fuck about politics and enjoying my life till i die or the world changes or ends

Cracker for President.... one thing GUARANTEED ... I would write ALL of my own speeches. You would just get LESS of them, as opposed to Obama. I believe in quality over quantity.

I would also spend a considerable amount of my spare time handwriting letters to regular folks at night.... like Reagan did (class). Everyone made fun of Reagan because they thought he was going to bed early.... he was writing letters to citizens....and never boasted about it. That's confidence in oneself.

You're not using ALL of your mirrors, CJ.

You have this absolute position, and refuse to acknowledge any other possibilities...Kinda like religion...

The other possibility is what happened..... it was canceled.

1. Solar Energy
The sun is our most powerful source of energy. Sunlight, or solar energy, can be used for heating, lighting and cooling homes and other buildings, generating electricity, water heating, and a variety of industrial processes. Most forms of renewable energy come either directly or indirectly from the sun. For example, heat from the sun causes the wind to blow, contributes to the growth of trees and other plants that are used for biomass energy, and plays an essential role in the cycle of evaporation and precipitation that makes hydropower possible.

2. Wind Energy
Wind is the movement of air that occurs when warm air rises and cooler air rushes in to replace it. The energy of the wind has been used for centuries to sail ships and drive windmills that grind grain. Today, wind energy is captured by wind turbines and used to generate electricity.

3. Hydropower
Water flowing downstream is a powerful force. Water is a renewable resource, constantly recharged by the global cycle of evaporation and precipitation. The heat of the sun causes water in lakes and oceans to evaporate and form clouds. The water then falls back to Earth as rain or snow, and drains into rivers and streams that flow back to the ocean. Flowing water can be used to power water wheels that drive mechanical processes. And captured by turbines and generators, like those housed at many dams around the world, the energy of flowing water can be used to generate electricity.

4. Biomass Energy
Biomass has been an important source of energy ever since people first began burning wood to cook food and warm themselves against the winter chill. Wood is still the most common source of biomass energy, but other sources of biomass energy include food crops, grasses and other plants, agricultural and forestry waste and residue, organic components from municipal and industrial wastes, even methane gas harvested from community landfills. Biomass can be used to produce electricity and as fuel for transportation, or to manufacture products that would otherwise require the use of non-renewable fossil fuels.

5. Hydrogen
Hydrogen has tremendous potential as a fuel and energy source, but the technology needed to realize that potential is still in the early stages. Hydrogen is the most common element on Earth—for example, water is two-thirds hydrogen—but in nature it is always found in combination with other elements. Once separated from other elements, hydrogen can be used to power vehicles, replace natural gas for heating and cooking, and to generate electricity.

6. Geothermal Energy
The heat inside the Earth produces steam and hot water that can be used to power generators and produce electricity, or for other applications such as home heating and power generation for industry. Geothermal energy can be drawn from deep underground reservoirs by drilling, or from other geothermal reservoirs closer to the surface.

7. Ocean Energy
The ocean provides several forms of renewable energy, and each one is driven by different forces. Energy from ocean waves and tides can be harnessed to generate electricity, and ocean thermal energy—from the heat stored in sea water—can also be converted to electricity. Using current technologies, most ocean energy is not cost-effective compared to other renewable energy sources, but the ocean remains and important potential energy source for the future.

Every one of those is expensive and inefficient compared to something as simple as COAL. Coal beats every one of them in cost and efficiency. THIS beats Coal.... there is no substitute better than fusion. the fact that it is RADIOACTIVE FREE is a mind boggling ADVANCEMENT.

I'm not saying that the moon rocks wouldn't solve the problem, they may, BUT WE DON'T KNOW THE CONSEQUENCES! You can't tell me what would happen, you can only speculate. Doesn't that bother you at ALL? If you look to the moon alone, and invest all of your attention blindly on one option, you're worshiping it.

Definitions of worship:

idolize: love unquestioningly and uncritically or to excess; venerate as an idol; "Many teenagers idolized the Beatles"
show devotion to (a deity); "Many Hindus worship Shiva"
the activity of worshipping
attend religious services; "They worship in the traditional manner"
a feeling of profound love and admiration

The concequences of new ventures are rarely known.... Glad you didn't decide for Columbus or Magellan, or Balboa, or ..., ... ,....

No risk...no GAIN. This is a calculated risk that is very much ACHIEVABLE.

Obama is a dick is why

I don't know about dick.... but Obama does not like us...that much is evident.

Dis you mean to say we should send people to mars? Why? Everything we need to learn there can be learned via robots. It's cheaper too. Robots don't need oxygen n shit like that.

Mars is a completely different idea, but robots are the way to go there, because man cannot survive in deep space...yet. No one would arrive.... alive.

And perhaps you should bone up on the historical sciences.

Anthropology, archaeology, and paleontology come to mind.

All Native Americans are immigrants.

It's simply a question of who arrived first.

True enough JO. Always on target you are.

past is the past???? Americans are still dying over there today, tomorrow and not even u knows for how long....

the economy is still in the shitter and somehow thats the past???

ill concider looking at obama as a criminal when u put bush in prison...

maybe we are letting the china build the staging area and test our ships before we get there.... for once we can copy them

its not like obama said he was cutting all funding of nasa...

I say the past is the past not to forget, but i'm not going to bother blowing holes in that perspective (easily done) on this thread. I'm ylooking forward here, not backward.

So the moon has an abundant energy source, awesome!
But, we won't feasibly be able to process it for 30 years, damn!
Well then, I guess it would be reasonable to wait on spending money on a hypothetical transport system, just so we can beat China. China who has more money to throw around then we do.

I wonder what we would do with said Isotope while waiting for the technology to catch up to the idea.
Stockpile? Of moon dust?

What do we have to fear from China getting there first? 2nd place trophy in a race of pride, no thanks.
If it is as clean and pure as claimed then there is no rush other then for want of control.
So who is really worried about control?

It sounds to me that Obama made a sound fiscal decision, period.

What justification is there for getting H3 before we can use it? And on top of that, forcing tax payers to pay for it?

We wouldn't go to the moon right away, but the sooner we start...the sooner we get there. The amount of innovation that would spring up over this would be immeasurable. Things not even anticipated.


Folks.... this ONE issue could bring the entire WORLD together!!!

It amazes me that some of you are rabid against our OIL hunger and blame THAT on most of our foreign policy blunders.... and then when told that there is a solution for the ENTIRE planet and a way to get off of OIL.... you don't seem to care!

What do you care about.... if not that?

Want to curb carbon? Here it is.
Want to calm down the Middle east? Here it is.
Want people in Africa to have a fighting chance at modernity? Here it is.
Want to stop using Uranium? Here it is.
Want to CLEAN UP the environment? Here it is.

If elected...this would be my TOP priority. I would call all of the global political powerhouses together. Everyone will bask in the sunshine. Everyone will benefit.

I offer at least a half millennia of prosperity and a CLEAN Earth.... what say you?

 

[worm5376]

I offer at least a half millennia of prosperity and a CLEAN Earth.... what say you?

what would the prices be like? getting that shit from up there to down here must be a daunting task
I'm all for the change if and ever it was to come but if the prices hit the bell...

 

[Sure Shot]

It's a great idea except the fact it goes beyond "putting the cart before the horse".
It's putting the cart first, before the horse is "invented"!
What's the damage in waiting, say you?

 

[CrackerJax]

what would the prices be like? getting that shit from up there to down here must be a daunting task
I'm all for the change if and ever it was to come but if the prices hit the bell...

That is exactly why Bush intended and SAID a "COMMERCIAL" venture. Your tax money would not be on the hook for it. Just the transportation part. 100 million tons for 400 years of clean energy.... for the ENTIRE planet! that is chump change my friend...in cost and amount of material.

A single shuttle cargo bay of the stuff would power the USA for an entire year!

It's a great idea except the fact it goes beyond "putting the cart before the horse".
It's putting the cart first, before the horse is "invented"!
What's the damage in waiting, say you?

You seem confused.... we have already been to the moon...the science ISN'T new.... not even the rockets to be used (Ares) Tried and true....

You are confused.... greatly.

This was the chance to START.

The Chinese know what is up there.... and that is exactly WHY they are going.... without US!!! You didn't think they were just going to the moon to put up a flag did you? Wake up....

It's all about WHO gets there first.

I, as the USA President would INVITE everyone to JOIN in!

The Chinese WILL NOT.

 

[Sure Shot]

That is exactly why Bush intended and SAID a "COMMERCIAL" venture. Your tax money would not be on the hook for it. Just the transportation part. 100 million tons for 400 years of clean energy.... for the ENTIRE planet! that is chump change my friend...in cost and amount of material.

A single shuttle cargo bay of the stuff would power the USA for an entire year!





You seem confused.... we have already been to the moon...the science ISN'T new.... not even the rockets to be used (Ares) Tried and true....

You are confused.... greatly.

This was the chance to START.

The Chinese know what is up there.... and that is exactly WHY they are going.... without US!!! You didn't think they were just going to the moon to put up a flag did you? Wake up....

It's all about WHO gets there first.

I, as the USA President would INVITE everyone to JOIN in!

The Chinese WILL NOT.

The confusion is clearly on your side.
I never said anything about the ability to travel to the moon. That was someone else completely.
In fact, that is part of my argument.
This is a mere question of priorities, yours seem to be askew.

The priority should lie in developing technologies to harness said resource.
That's like going and buying clones before you have a grow room.
We do not need to go all the way to the moon to play with H3.
But we will need to eventually, no doubt! But we must actually think responsibly.

Private enterprise could blow NASA away!
Just look at what Virgin Galactic is up to.
Our Space Shuttle is old and outdated.
It was first designed in the 1950's and we are retiring it in just a few short months. We should have scrapped it long ago IMO.
How do you propose we propel the moon dust off the surface?(retrofit some more rockets?)
This journey to the moon is no doubt an important step in the right direction to the energy crisis here on Earth. Where even Saudi Arabia has less then half their oil left.(based on claims of production volume). We're just not ready, not yet!

You keep posting that China will get there first. So what!!
What are you so worried about? Help me to understand your position,please.

You state that the Moon has an ABUNDANT amount of H3. A small piece of which will power the WORLD for 400 years. If those 2 facts are true and your basis for argument. Then your underlining reason becomes self-evident, (Greed-Paranoia). If it only takes 1 shuttle full to do the job why does it have to be an American shuttle?

You consistently paint any decision of Obama's in a negative light.
I used to hold your words with weight and value but recently you seem clouded by emotion.

Now I find your words lacking and wanting.

 

[Mindmelted]

The confusion is clearly on your side.
I never said anything about the ability to travel to the moon. That was someone else completely.
In fact, that is part of my argument.
This is a mere question of priorities, yours seem to be askew.

The priority should lie in developing technologies to harness said resource.
That's like going and buying clones before you have a grow room.
We do not need to go all the way to the moon to play with H3.
But we will need to eventually, no doubt! But we must actually think responsibly.

Private enterprise could blow NASA away!
Just look at what Virgin Galactic is up to.
Our Space Shuttle is old and outdated.
It was first designed in the 1950's and we are retiring it in just a few short months. We should have scrapped it long ago IMO.
How do you propose we propel the moon dust off the surface?(retrofit some more rockets?)
This journey to the moon is no doubt an important step in the right direction to the energy crisis here on Earth. Where even Saudi Arabia has less then half their oil left.(based on claims of production volume). We're just not ready, not yet!

You keep posting that China will get there first. So what!!
What are you so worried about? Help me to understand your position,please.

You state that the Moon has an ABUNDANT amount of H3. A small piece of which will power the WORLD for 400 years. If those 2 facts are true and your basis for argument. Then your underlining reason becomes self-evident, (Greed-Paranoia). If it only takes 1 shuttle full to do the job why does it have to be an American shuttle?

You consistently paint any decision of Obama's in a negative light.
I used to hold your words with weight and value but recently you seem clouded by emotion.

Now I find your words lacking and wanting.

You actually think if china gets there first they are gonig to share.

You are very naive if this is what you think.

China wants to be the global giant and will be soon if we are not careful.

Can anyone say province of china in the future.

 

[PlantManBee]

You consistently paint any decision of Obama's in a negative light.
I used to hold your words with weight and value but recently you seem clouded by emotion.

Now I find your words lacking and wanting.

you are not alone. this could all be changed with a few thoughtful concessions.

 

[Sure Shot]

You actually think if china gets there first they are gonig to share.

You are very naive if this is what you think.

China wants to be the global giant and will be soon if we are not careful.

Can anyone say province of china in the future.

I don't care if China share's.
There is an abundant source, remember?

 

[Mindmelted]

I don't care if China share's.
There is an abundant source, remember?

Not if China claims it.

 

[Sure Shot]

Not if China claims it.

You're seriously worried China is going to claim the moon?
LOL

 

[Mindmelted]

You're seriously worried China is going to claim the moon?
LOL

Now where did i say the moon.

The mineral they can/could claim.

That is all i am saying

 

[CrackerJax]

You can't claim what you can't get to... We AREN'T going...so how can we claim it SS?

Think it through.

The commercial venture IS the Constellation program.... holey moley!!!!

Obama wants to PIDDLE in space.... Chins wants to OWN it.... and they will if we keep electing unimaginative Presidents like Obama.

This is the biggest WIN/WIN to come across the table in our LIFETIME !!

It's amusing so many can't comprehend what has just been LOST.

Global warming.... solved!!!
Middle east and US foreign policy..... solved!!!
Third world with first world power ... solved!!

Not to mention all of the collateral innovation that comes along with space travel.

Now we buy tickets on Soviet rockets...like tourists.

The country had a chance to be given a TRUE VISION.

Obama is not the man for the job.

Lowly Bush saw the potential....so does science. Not Obama...he wants you to look inward. No vison....no priorities...as usual.

 

[Mindmelted]

You can't claim what you can't get to... We AREN'T going...so how can we claim it SS?

Think it through.

The commercial venture IS the Constellation program.... holey moley!!!!

Obama wants to PIDDLE in space.... Chins wants to OWN it.... and they will if we keep electing unimaginative Presidents like Obama.

This is the biggest WIN/WIN to come across the table in our LIFETIME !!

It's amusing so many can't comprehend what has just been LOST.

Global warming.... solved!!!
Middle east and US foreign policy..... solved!!!
Third world with first world power ... solved!!

Not to mention all of the collateral innovation that comes along with space travel.

Now we buy tickets on Soviet rockets...like tourists.

The country had a chance to be given a TRUE VISION.

Obama is not the man for the job.

Lowly Bush saw the potential....so does science. Not Obama...he wants you to look inward. No vison....no priorities...as usual.

 

[Sure Shot]

The mineral is abundant over the entire surface.
That means claiming the entire moon.

 

[CrackerJax]

It means we need only 100 million tons of the stuff. It's not hard to get...and you have to START a job to actually ACCOMPLISH anything.

If the Chinese are willing.... why aren't we?

because Obama wants to spend all of the $$$ on welfare programs.... he doesn't want the people having a vision to aspire to. he wants to ratchet the country down to mediocrity.

Every part of the project can be accomplished.... with the right ppl in charge. Like me.

 

[Sure Shot]

You can't claim what you can't get to... We AREN'T going...so how can we claim it SS?

Think it through.

The commercial venture IS the Constellation program.... holey moley!!!!

Obama wants to PIDDLE in space.... Chins wants to OWN it.... and they will if we keep electing unimaginative Presidents like Obama.

This is the biggest WIN/WIN to come across the table in our LIFETIME !!

It's amusing so many can't comprehend what has just been LOST.

Global warming.... solved!!!
Middle east and US foreign policy..... solved!!!
Third world with first world power ... solved!!

Not to mention all of the collateral innovation that comes along with space travel.

Now we buy tickets on Soviet rockets...like tourists.

The country had a chance to be given a TRUE VISION.

Obama is not the man for the job.

Lowly Bush saw the potential....so does science. Not Obama...he wants you to look inward. No vison....no priorities...as usual.

We can't even use it for 30 years at best!
So none of those problems you listed will even be affected in a positive manner until after that date.

What vessel do you propose we take?
Where is your evidence that China wants to own space?

 

[CrackerJax]

So what sure shot... so what... 30 years is too much for 400 years after?

Think it through son....

I propose we take the Ares rockets... which are what NASA intends on using. There is NO problem in getting there.... we already have the technology.

For somewhere in the neighborhood of about $6.6 billion, NASA can develop a rocket for the moon. Okay.... now shutting down the Constellation program will COST 2.5 Billion bucks. So right there....6.5 Billion could be 4.1 Billion.

Sound like alot of money? It is.... but since Obama just pissed away nearly a TRILLION bucks this year with negligible effect in our favor economically.... it is farcical to then turn around and say... we can't afford it. Uhh, we could if someone wasn't already spending everything in sight, and then some. I'm being kind here.

Obama is good with words.... but simply follow his actions.

As for how can I know if the Chinese are going to the moon? Uhh... China herself has said this quite plainly. If you are going to believe the words of Obama.... it is only fitting you believe the words of China. Besides.... they are far better off economically to do it than we are.... because of Obama... ironic coincidence...and sad commentary...very.

 

[Sure Shot]

I'm saying we should definitely go.
I'm saying we should definitely dive right in.
No argument there.
My argument rather, is there is no cement pond to dive in!
And the source is as abundant as water is here on Earth.
Would you go buy 1000 gallons of water before at least digging a hole for a pool?

I never said China wasn't going. You sure spin like a politician, maybe you should run for office!

The Ares 1 rocket is about 10-15 years away from operation, LOL.
It's still 5 years from PDR!

The President of The United States will be given a press conference on this matter in two weeks.
Hopefully that will help to more colorfully illustrate his vision.

And to say that he intends on driving the country to mediocrity is just a statement of hate w/ intent to strike fear.






I sure do appreciate your interest in matters that you won't be around to see pan out, gramps!