Arizona Immigration Reform Laws.

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abe23

Active Member
Again....federal vs. state law. ICE can deport illegals. State and local law enforcement cannot.

But answer this robert....wouldn't a law that cracked down on employers who hire illegal immigrants be more effective in dissuading undocumented people from looking for work in arizona? The problem seems to be cheap under table day-labour, whether the people doing the work have papers or not...
 

ink the world

Well-Known Member
"Arizona's new law, signed by the governor on Friday, would require immigrants to carry documents verifying their immigration status. It would also require police officers to question a person about his or her immigration status if there is "reasonable suspicion" that person may be illegally in the country."

My problem is with "reasonable suspicion" what exactly is that? The color of a persons skin or their ability to speak English? The law is too vague and again its just not the answer to our immigration problems.
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
The AZ law is a step in the right direction, but doesn't go far enough... not by a longshot.

First a response to all the MSNBC parrots in here, since the law is a MIRROR of the Federal law and was designed specifically to hold up to judicial review based on the fact that it MIRRORS the Federal law, how is it illegal and/or immoral to simply say we are going to enforce the Federal law? Good luck with that one.

Secondly, the flaccid and unending argument that there are too many illegals here to deport is becoming laughable at this point. Who says we have to physically deport anyone. If we make it IMPOSSIBLE for illegals to earn an income and support their families in this country, they will leave on their own. They will have no choice, a crap job in their own country is better than starvation here. OOOOPS, did I just solve the entire problem in two sentences...you're fukn'A right I did.

How about a $1 million dollar fine for any business owner that knowingly OR UNKNOWINGLY hires an illegal alien? Would they not only risk all their business assets as well as their families assets just to hire an illegal... I think not, problem solved. Add on a $50,000 reward for anyone turning in said businesses and there ya go, no more employment for illegals. Too bad, So sad, pack your fackin bags and haul your ass back to whatever country you snuck in from.

So, now that it has been made painfully clear that NO DEPORTATION will ever be needed to solve the problem, can you douchebags find some other lame excuse for not upholding our country's immigration laws?
 

golddog

Well-Known Member
"Arizona's new law, signed by the governor on Friday, would require immigrants to carry documents verifying their immigration status. It would also require police officers to question a person about his or her immigration status if there is "reasonable suspicion" that person may be illegally in the country."

My problem is with "reasonable suspicion" what exactly is that? The color of a persons skin or their ability to speak English? The law is too vague and again its just not the answer to our immigration problems.

Here is an article from the New York times by someone who really know about the subject.


By KRIS W. KOBACH
Published: April 28, 2010
Kansas City, Kan.
Skip to next paragraph Related

Room for Debate: Will Arizona's Immigration Law Survive?

Times Topics: Jan Brewer




ON Friday, Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona signed a law — SB 1070 — that prohibits the harboring of illegal aliens and makes it a state crime for an alien to commit certain federal immigration crimes. It also requires police officers who, in the course of a traffic stop or other law-enforcement action, come to a “reasonable suspicion” that a person is an illegal alien verify the person’s immigration status with the federal government.

Predictably, groups that favor relaxed enforcement of immigration laws, including the American Civil Liberties Union and the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, insist the law is unconstitutional. Less predictably, President Obama declared it “misguided” and said the Justice Department would take a look.

Presumably, the government lawyers who do so will actually read the law, something its critics don’t seem to have done. The arguments we’ve heard against it either misrepresent its text or are otherwise inaccurate. As someone who helped draft the statute, I will rebut the major criticisms individually:

It is unfair to demand that aliens carry their documents with them. It is true that the Arizona law makes it a misdemeanor for an alien to fail to carry certain documents. “Now, suddenly, if you don’t have your papers ... you’re going to be harassed,” the president said. “That’s not the right way to go.” But since 1940, it has been a federal crime for aliens to fail to keep such registration documents with them. The Arizona law simply adds a state penalty to what was already a federal crime. Moreover, as anyone who has traveled abroad knows, other nations have similar documentation requirements.

“Reasonable suspicion” is a meaningless term that will permit police misconduct. Over the past four decades, federal courts have issued hundreds of opinions defining those two words. The Arizona law didn’t invent the concept: Precedents list the factors that can contribute to reasonable suspicion; when several are combined, the “totality of circumstances” that results may create reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed.

For example, the Arizona law is most likely to come into play after a traffic stop. A police officer pulls a minivan over for speeding. A dozen passengers are crammed in. None has identification. The highway is a known alien-smuggling corridor. The driver is acting evasively. Those factors combine to create reasonable suspicion that the occupants are not in the country legally.

The law will allow police to engage in racial profiling. Actually, Section 2 provides that a law enforcement official “may not solely consider race, color or national origin” in making any stops or determining immigration status. In addition, all normal Fourth Amendment protections against profiling will continue to apply. In fact, the Arizona law actually reduces the likelihood of race-based harassment by compelling police officers to contact the federal government as soon as is practicable when they suspect a person is an illegal alien, as opposed to letting them make arrests on their own assessment.
It is unfair to demand that people carry a driver’s license. Arizona’s law does not require anyone, alien or otherwise, to carry a driver’s license. Rather, it gives any alien with a license a free pass if his immigration status is in doubt. Because Arizona allows only lawful residents to obtain licenses, an officer must presume that someone who produces one is legally in the country.

State governments aren’t allowed to get involved in immigration, which is a federal matter. While it is true that Washington holds primary authority in immigration, the Supreme Court since 1976 has recognized that states may enact laws to discourage illegal immigration without being pre-empted by federal law. As long as Congress hasn’t expressly forbidden the state law in question, the statute doesn’t conflict with federal law and Congress has not displaced all state laws from the field, it is permitted. That’s why Arizona’s 2007 law making it illegal to knowingly employ unauthorized aliens was sustained by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.

In sum, the Arizona law hardly creates a police state. It takes a measured, reasonable step to give Arizona police officers another tool when they come into contact with illegal aliens during their normal law enforcement duties.

And it’s very necessary: Arizona is the ground zero of illegal immigration. Phoenix is the hub of human smuggling and the kidnapping capital of America, with more than 240 incidents reported in 2008. It’s no surprise that Arizona’s police associations favored the bill, along with 70 percent of Arizonans.

President Obama and the Beltway crowd feel these problems can be taken care of with “comprehensive immigration reform” — meaning amnesty and a few other new laws. But we already have plenty of federal immigration laws on the books, and the typical illegal alien is guilty of breaking many of them. What we need is for the executive branch to enforce the laws that we already have.

Unfortunately, the Obama administration has scaled back work-site enforcement and otherwise shown it does not consider immigration laws to be a high priority.

Is it any wonder the Arizona Legislature, at the front line of the immigration issue, sees things differently?

Kris W. Kobach, a law professor at the University of Missouri at Kansas City, was Attorney General John Ashcroft’s chief adviser on immigration law and border security from 2001 to 2003.
 

robert 14617

Well-Known Member
Again....federal vs. state law. ICE can deport illegals. State and local law enforcement cannot.

But answer this robert....wouldn't a law that cracked down on employers who hire illegal immigrants be more effective in dissuading undocumented people from looking for work in arizona? The problem seems to be cheap under table day-labour, whether the people doing the work have papers or not...
you make a valid point , but wouldn't that be more aggressive,then requiring documentation from people committing crimes?
 

Mindmelted

Well-Known Member
The AZ law is a step in the right direction, but doesn't go far enough... not by a longshot.

First a response to all the MSNBC parrots in here, since the law is a MIRROR of the Federal law and was designed specifically to hold up to judicial review based on the fact that it MIRRORS the Federal law, how is it illegal and/or immoral to simply say we are going to enforce the Federal law? Good luck with that one.

Secondly, the flaccid and unending argument that there are too many illegals here to deport is becoming laughable at this point. Who says we have to physically deport anyone. If we make it IMPOSSIBLE for illegals to earn an income and support their families in this country, they will leave on their own. They will have no choice, a crap job in their own country is better than starvation here. OOOOPS, did I just solve the entire problem in two sentences...you're fukn'A right I did.

How about a $1 million dollar fine for any business owner that knowingly OR UNKNOWINGLY hires an illegal alien? Would they not only risk all their business assets as well as their families assets just to hire an illegal... I think not, problem solved. Add on a $50,000 reward for anyone turning in said businesses and there ya go, no more employment for illegals. Too bad, So sad, pack your fackin bags and haul your ass back to whatever country you snuck in from.

So, now that it has been made painfully clear that NO DEPORTATION will ever be needed to solve the problem, can you douchebags find some other lame excuse for not upholding our country's immigration laws?

Bingo was his name...:clap::clap:
 

vapor85

Well-Known Member
I completely support Arizona. This immigration issue has been ignored for far too long.

And by the way it is a LIE that cops can just go around checking for everyone's immigration paper's. They need to have a valid reason such as a person running a stop sign or speeding etc etc first.

And here is a little humor that I wanted to share with you guys: A bunch of libs have been writing the Arizona Tea company and telling them they are fascists and they will no longer buy there products....Arizona Tea is a New York company! :lol:

Liberals are always good for a laugh.
 

abe23

Active Member
Arizona's immigration law
Hysterical nativism
A conservative border state is at risk of becoming a police state
Apr 22nd 2010 | LOS ANGELES | From The Economist print edition

RUSSELL PEARCE is the quintessential Arizona Republican. He wears stars-and-stripes shirts and has clips of John Wayne and Ronald Reagan on his website. He loves guns, his family, his Mormon faith, his country and the law, which he enforced for many years as deputy sheriff of Maricopa County. He jokes that being Republican, and thus not having a heart, saved his life when he got shot in the chest once. But his main passion is illegal immigrants, whom he calls “invaders”. He loathed them even before his son Sean, also a sheriff’s deputy, got shot by one. But now it is personal.

Mr Pearce, a state senator, has sponsored an Arizona law that, if enacted, would be the toughest in the country. It is so brazen it has caused outrage. This week it passed the last hurdles in the state legislature. As The Economist went to press, it was awaiting the signature of Arizona’s Republican governor, Jan Brewer.

Illegal immigration is a federal crime. Mr Pearce’s law, however, would also make it a state crime and would require the police, as opposed to federal agents, to make arrests and check the immigration status of individuals who look suspicious to them. Citizens who think their cops are not vigilant enough would be encouraged to sue their cities or counties, and no city or county may remain a “sanctuary” where this law is not enforced.

In Mr Pearce’s opinion his law merely “removes the handcuffs” from the police and sheriffs’ deputies so they can do their work. To a great many other people, however, it screams racial profiling. Arizona is an overwhelmingly white state, and virtually all illegal immigrants—perhaps about half a million in the state—are Hispanic. Whom else would cops suspect and arrest but the brown ones? Even American Latinos who happen to be out without their driving licence might be at risk.

“Illegal is not a race; it is a crime,” Mr Pearce likes to retort. And many Arizonans agree with him. Arizona has become the main crossing point for Mexicans, some of whom have brought Mexico’s drug violence with them. A few weeks ago a prominent white rancher near the border was killed, possibly by a smuggler or illegal immigrant. Republicans run Arizona and are now in a state of hysteria, competing with one another to deal most toughly with the threat. Even Arizona’s senior senator, John McCain, who once resisted demonising illegal immigrants but is now facing a challenge in the primaries for his seat, has come out in favour of Mr Pearce’s law.

Arizona’s Latinos, by contrast, have not mobilised politically. They make up 30% of the state’s population but only 12% of the electorate. And many are from families that have been American for generations, no longer speak Spanish and are ambivalent toward the new arrivals. They are thus very different from Latinos in Texas and California. During the 1990s attempts to turn back illegals at the border complied with voter initiatives against undocumented immigrants in California motivated Latinos there to become a political force which Republicans fear to cross. Arizona, however, may still be a generation behind.

Nonetheless, the Republicans are playing with fire. The entire country is now watching. Roger Mahony is archbishop of America’s largest, and very Hispanic, archdiocese, Los Angeles, and will soon be succeeded by a Latino. He calls Mr Pearce’s bill “the country’s most retrogressive, mean-spirited and useless anti-immigrant law” and wonders whether Arizonans are “now reverting to German Nazi and Russian Communist techniques”.
 

fatman7574

New Member
Consider this, if an American located employer hires an illegal immigrant to be able to remain in bussiness rather than have the business go under due to cheaper labor outside the country how fair is it to fine the employer and bankrupt him because are dumb ass cogovernment passed free trade laws. At least most of the wages earned by the illegal immigrants remain in the U.S. and the U.S. businesses does no go under. I would much rather buy food and products produced with labor from illegal immigrants than buy from other nations because all americans think they deserve to live decadently by drawing higher wages then many businesses can afford to pay. Big gains we made. We get Walmarts every where. The unfairness in the whole situation is that just a few states have to deal with the issues rather than all the states and all the states citizens having to deal with the problems.

I wish the problems did not exist but I applaud Arizonia for having the guts to step up and deal with the problems the federal congressmen and our present and past presidents are/were to afraid to deal with. Like that dumass Obama will make things any better by convincing congress to pass someother bad bills. Alaska has state hiring right laws that are even more discriminatory then the new Arizona laws, but they are considered legal and constitutional because it is just some US citizens discrimnating against other US citizens. If we can legally discriminate against each other than surely we can discriminate aginst illegal aliens.

As for type casting: jaded eye police constantly pull over cars leaving a housing area in the middle of the night if they are occupied by a lone male. This has been declared unconstittional by the courts, but it still continues.

Police stick their hands in detained peoples pockets without the peoples permission conc stantly, but it is an illegal search. A police officer may pat you down and can only serach your pockets if he can honestly say he thinks he feels a weapon in your pockets. A policeman legally can not make you empty your pockets out. You can simply refuse to do so unless he has a search warrant. He can't even search you if arresting you unless he pats you down and it appears you have a dangerous weapon. There are many confusions about laws and constitutional rights. Television is a huge reason there are so many problems as they air stupid shows like Cops where police are constantly violating peoples rights. People watch these dumb shows and think afterwards that police are legally allowed to do these things. Always also realise if a cop asks if he may look in something the smart response is NO get a warrant. IE a police officer may not enter your vehicle, open your trunk or doors or even order you to roll down your window without your permission or a warrant. Even a narcotics dog indicating you have drugs in your vehicle does not give them legal rights to search your vehicle. It just gives them probable cause to obtain a serach warrant to dserach your car. Even thing that single bit of "evidence" is not enough for most judges to grant a search warrant.

If they ask you to step out of your car always roll up your windows, close and lock the the door as you get out. No you do not have to give a police officer your license when he asks to see it. The courts have determined presnt your drivers license only maens showing the officer the license not phu ysiaccly giving up possession of the licemse.You can simply hold on to it and allow him to view/read it. No you do not need to take it out of your wallet if all information is viewable. If he says he needs to view the back side simply remove the licemse and turn it over and put it back in your wallet. They can nor seize your wallet without a warrant. Thaey trick you instead into taking out the license and handing it to them. Legally after they walk off or as they walk off thay can't even require you to remain in your vehicle. This means they must detain you. Telling you to sit in your car as they leave you an ignore you and play with computer records to see if you have a criminal record is not detention. It is depriving simply the deprivation of liberty while the try to drum up a cause for having wasted time for pulling you over. If they do not tale you physically into custody as soon as they approach you it is all bullshit. You are not under their control so you are not detained but merely talking to them. You are required to present your license and proof of insurance. You are not required to do anything else. The reason they "ask" you to take the license out of your wallet is that you then tend to naturally hand it to them. That is a mistake, beacuse you have now freley become his/her hostage (not a detainee) by freely giving them your license. You can not legally drive off without your license. If you give them the license and then walk off they can then inventory your abandoned vehicle's contents before impounding it. The reason they follow you and make you pull over where there is no place for you to drive onto private property is to have you and your vehicle hostage. Pull into a piece of private property, a parking lot that is not government owned or a persons driveways.

Police, prosecutors and judges sit many hours over drinks at bars discussing ways to get around individual constitutional and leagl rights. These are whay the majority of the things taught to police in police academies other than how to restrain/abuse individuals without leaving marks as evidence.

Nope the US is not all it is said to be. Police, lawyers, judges and politicians are all simply trickery experts. The whole criminal justice system in this country is a sham because the people in power keep the countries citizens ignorant to reality.

I am more concerned with how U.S. citizens are being screwed by the police and courts than illegal immigrants. When we do not have to worry abought constant abuse by the government, ploice and the courts sytem then I will worry about the illegal immigrants problems from the same authorities.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Okay.... I will now lay out a comprehensive illegal immigration policy. I hope it will meet with everyone's approval. I think you will all find this to be reasonable....

CrackerJax 10 point Illegal immigration policy:

1.) Any illegal immigrant which upsets the equilibrium of national demographics will be barred from entry.

2.) Any I.I. (illegal immigrant) who does not enhance the USA's economic or national interests or is found to be physically or mentally ill will be turned away.

3.) Any I.I. seeking USA citizenship must show a birth certificate, also a bank statement proving economic independence. They must pass an examination and prove that they can provide for their own health care.

4.) Any illegal entry will be considered a felony punishable by up to 2 years of prison. Same goes with document fraud and alien marriage fraud (think FEZ from the 70's show)

5.) Illegal RE-ENTRY after deportation will be punishable with a sentence up to 10 years.

6.) Foreigners can be kicked out WITHOUT due process. No tying up of US courts allowed.

7.) Officials at all levels of Govt. MUST cooperate to enforce these laws and the military can be used to enforce said laws.

8.) All US citizens will be empowered to make citizen arrests of I.I.'s

9.) All outside TOURISTS and foreign nationals will be tracked by the govt. and must carry a citizens identification card. Failure to provide one upon request are subject to arrest.

10.) Non citizens cannot in any way participate in the political affairs of the country and will not be allowed to protest in public.


There, I think that covers everything.

I hope this helps!!! :peace:
 

tinyTURTLE

Well-Known Member
Okay.... I will now lay out a comprehensive illegal immigration policy. I hope it will meet with everyone's approval. I think you will all find this to be reasonable....

CrackerJax 10 point Illegal immigration policy:

1.) Any illegal immigrant which upsets the equilibrium of national demographics will be barred from entry.

2.) Any I.I. (illegal immigrant) who does not enhance the USA's economic or national interests or is found to be physically or mentally ill will be turned away.

3.) Any I.I. seeking USA citizenship must show a birth certificate, also a bank statement proving economic independence. They must pass an examination and prove that they can provide for their own health care.

4.) Any illegal entry will be considered a felony punishable by up to 2 years of prison. Same goes with document fraud and alien marriage fraud (think FEZ from the 70's show)

5.) Illegal RE-ENTRY after deportation will be punishable with a sentence up to 10 years.

6.) Foreigners can be kicked out WITHOUT due process. No tying up of US courts allowed.

7.) Officials at all levels of Govt. MUST cooperate to enforce these laws and the military can be used to enforce said laws.

8.) All US citizens will be empowered to make citizen arrests of I.I.'s

9.) All outside TOURISTS and foreign nationals will be tracked by the govt. and must carry a citizens identification card. Failure to provide one upon request are subject to arrest.

10.) Non citizens cannot in any way participate in the political affairs of the country and will not be allowed to protest in public.


There, I think that covers everything.

I hope this helps!!! :peace:
russia called, they want their iron curtain back.
 

fatman7574

New Member
Nice, but why supply them with years of free three hots and a cot. Just jail them and hire them out as forced laborers. This way the small bussinesses get cheap labor (that is ll the want). The wages are then forfeited to pay for the prisons and even the children can be imprisoned and put to work. Simply cahnges the laws about what constitutes a naturalized citizen. Those laws are old and obviously in appropriatte for todays needs. We mno longer want or need nor can we afford all the worlds hungry and deprived. Our nations debts are so huge we are not even really taking care of our own. How many trillion do we now owe China. Not for goods but for loans!!!! Most of what we buy from over seas comes from factories and industries with both children and adult workers. Why give illegal immigrants children more than what they would get if they stayed in their own countries. If the government can declare a war on drugs or terrorism and deprive people of their rights as it is war, then declare war on illegal immigration. As war criminals illegal immigrants would have limited rights, rather than the rights of US citizens. Instead of a new Panama Canal, build a canal between Mexico and the US. Then we can quit supporting the Panamanians also.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
JO is 100% CORRECT!!!!

What I have posted is the OFFICIAL IMMIGRATION LAWS OF MEXICO!!!

Put that in ur pipe and smoke it!!! :lol:
 

CrackerJax

New Member
What a ridiculous thing to say.... totally incorrect.

If JO hadn't corrected turtle... I would've netted every one of you political noobies up.....

Heck we have the Soviet Union to our south!!! :lol:
 
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