I don't know if I'd equate technological ingenuity with understanding nature. I think they did have a much closer relationship to nature than we do, but they didn't have a great understanding of how it worked beyond what they personally experienced. They saw the sun as a magic spirit. Modern religions are doing the same thing - making up stories for things that haven't been explained. I do acknowledge that there is a certain amount of faith in atheism, but it's based on a foundation of logic and extrapolation from what we do know, and have proven scientifically. There's a big difference between that and clinging to fantastic stories about magic and spirits -.
Great, i just wanted someone else to admit to the FACT that older civilizations did not have means of understanding when it came to nature, even those who were advanced technologically in ways we cant explain.
It might sound as if I just contradicted myself, but follow below so you can see why.
See evidence of your existence above
And being an Atheist IS simply that you don't arrive at conclusions unless there is substantial evidence...PERIOD. Any other views are, like you said, individualistic. I wasn't attacking you. I'm sorry you felt so. Your information was just a little...Off. And if you think that the guys having pissing contests are having fun, look a little closer.
lol, i didn't think you were attacking me i just thought my reply might have sounded like an attack so i wasnt sure.
anyway back to the subject.
just a reminder:
afrawfraw :
"Just asking for a
little evidence before we come to a conclusion."
"Mystery's are
NOT evidence."
"Evidence, to me, are
facts,
supported by scientific findings."
"
If a theory is tested by new evidence, it will be considered with an
OPEN MIND"
"No evidence of Magic=NO MAGIC!"
lol, fair enough the evidence of me being here is the evidence that my writing was above. i agree.
and im not into any type of peeing contests so i wouldnt know.
Now.
You want to know about FACTS you say.
Im going to give you an appetiser, and if it doesnt tickle you then there is no point for more.
=============================================================
NOTE: Allah is God in Arabic{same as Elohim in Judaism}
The sea:
Dr. William W. Hay, Professor of Geological Sciences at the
University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, U.S.A. Formerly Dean of the Rosentiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science at the
University of Miami.
http://www.colorado.edu/GeolSci/faculty/hay.html
With regard to partitions between different oceans, these bodies of water are not homogeneous as it might appear to us, they are in fact different seas distinguished by varying degrees of salinity, temperature and density.
In the following we can see a divider between the
Mediterranean and the Atlantic Ocean
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
This is the base of the Rock of Gibraltar. We can spot the coloured partition between the two bodies of water, though the naked eye cannot see it in nature. This has become possible by means of satellite photography and remote sensing techniques.
Professor Hay "I find it very interesting that this sort of information is in the ancient scripture of the Holy
Qur'aan, and I have no way of knowing where they would come from, but I think it is extremely interesting that they are there and that this work is going on to discover it, the meaning of some of the passages."
.
X- Whom do you think is the original source of such information?
Professor Hay: "Well, I would think it must be the Divine Being!"
He has let free the two seas meeting together: Between them is a barrier which they do not transgress. {55: 19-20}
When the water from one sea enters the other sea, it loses its distinctive characteristic and becomes homogenized with the other water. In a way this barrier serves as a transitional homogenizing area for the two waters
The ocean is split into two main layers, the surface and deep part. The surface of the ocean is characterized by the warmth/light, the deep bydarkness.
The light ray is composed of seven colours, and when the light ray hits water, it is scattered into these seven colours.
In the above diagram we can see the colours are absorbed according to the filtration by depth.
If you are diving at 30 + feet and cut urself you would not be able to see the blood as at that point the red would have been filtered out by the layers. And so do the other colours shown.
We can see that darkness is noticed in a progression rather than all of a sudden, + darkness originates in the first place because of barriers that conceal light
Or (the unbelievers state) is like the depths of darkness in a vast deep ocean, overwhelmed with billow topped by billow, topped by (dark) clouds: Depths of darkness, one above another: If a man stretches out his hand, he can hardly see it! For any to whom Allah does not give light, there is no light.{24:40}
======================================================
Say: The (Qur'aan) was sent down by Him who knows the secrets (that is) in the heavens and the earth... {25:6}
Verily in the heavens and the earth, are signs for those who believe. And in the creation of yourselves and the fact that animals are scattered (through the earth), are signs for those of assured faith. And in the alteration of night and day, and the fact that Allah sends down sustenance from the sky, and revives therewith the earth after its death, and in the change of the winds, - are signs for those that are wise. Such are the signs of Allah, which we rehearse to thee in truth: then in what exposition will they believe after Allah and his signs? 45: 3-6}
Existence of subatomic particles
Theory of Atomism was introduced by the Greek Democritus 23 centuries ago.
And everyone after him including the Arabs used to believe the same. They thought that the atom was the smallest unit of matter.{Arabic word for atom used is Dharra, also can be pronounced Zara, Thara.}
The below verse clearly disapproved of that
The Unbelievers say, Never to us will come The Hour: say, Nay! But most surely, By my Lord, it will come Upon you by Him Who knows the unseen From Whom is not hidden The least little atom In the Heavens or on earth: Nor is there anything less Than that, or greater, but Is in the Record Perspicuous.
See you not, that Allâh sends down water (rain) from the sky, and causes it to penetrate the earth, (and then makes it to spring up) as water-springs and afterward thereby produces crops of different colours, and afterward they wither and you see them turn yellow, then He makes them dry and broken pieces. Verily, in this, is a Reminder for men of understanding.
Its speaking about the Omniscience of God, His knowledge of everything hidden or apparent. Further it is saying that God is aware of everything, smaller or bigger than an atom.
=====================================================
Bernard Palissy was the first one to describe the water cycle in.1580
Thales of Miletus thought that the surface mist of the sea was picked up by clouds and eventually went into land and the rained.
In prior times people did not know where underground water came from they thought that under the winds effects on the ocean thrusts the water into the interior of land, they even thought it returned through secret passages, or the great abyss.
Even since Platos time this passage has been named the Tartarus.
A great thinker of the eighteenth century called Descartes even accepted this.
Aristotles theory only prevailed in the 19 century and today we know rainwater that seeps into the cracks in the ground is the reason.
None of the above went into the great detail of the Quran.
"He sends down rain From the sky And with it gives life to The earth after it is dead: Verily in that are Signs For those who are wise. {30:24}
{ill leave that one with a ? for you}
And We send down water From the sky according to (Due) measure, and We cause it To soak in the soil; And We certainly are able To drain it off (with ease). {23:18}
Seest thou not that Allah Sends down rain from The sky, and leads it Through springs in the earth? Then He causes to grow, Therewith, produce of various Colours.{39:21}
The emphasis on due measure is that it is claimed that rain evaporates and drops in constant measured quantity's, which is only confirmed nowadays through technological researches.
And We send the fecundating winds, Then cause the rain to descend From the sky, therewith providing You with water (in abundance). {15:22}
Hydrology of today completely agrees with the Quran on such verses. more can be found:
{7:57},{3:9}, {25:48- 49}, {13:17}, {36:34}, {50:9-11} ill stop here im sure you get the point.
===============================================================
Folding is a recently discovered fact in geology, it is responsible for the formation of mountains.
Earth has a radius around 3100 and the crust we are living on is pretty thin being anywhere between 1-30 miles, and because of that earth is highly susceptible to earthquakes. And the mountains are the ones that keep us stable because they are like pegs that holds the earths crust firm for stability otherwise we would be all over the place.
Have We not made The earth as a wide Expanse, And the mountains as pegs?{78: 6-7}
And We have set on the earth Mountains standing firm, Lest it should shake with them. {21:31}
Earth has many broken rigid plates around 100 km in thickness. These plates float on aesthenosphere. Mountain formations happen at the border of the plates. Mountains have the strongest foundations found in nature which are up2 90kms in thickness, continental surfaces come second I think at 30+km dee
p and so on.
And the mountains Hath He firmly fixed. {79-32}
=============================================================
Also the barriers between salt and fresh water bodies:
And made a separating bar between the two bodies Of flowing water?{27:61}
It is He Who has Let free the two bodies Of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, And the other salty and bitter; Yet has He Made a barrier between them, And a partition that is forbidden To be passed.{25:53}
In
estuaries, where fresh and salt water meet, things are different from what is found in places where two oceans meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes
fresh from salt water is a
pycnocline zone with a set and stable density discontinuity separating the two layers. This zone of separation has salinity different from both types of water.
Allah is talking about an evil man that didnt allow the Prophet Muhammad {Pbuh} from praying.
Let him beware! If he does not stop, We will take him by the naasiyah (front of the head), a lying, sinful naasiyah! (96: 15-16)
The skull at the front of the head we find the prefrontal area of the cerebrum.
Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology Book says about this area: "The motivation and the foresight to plan and initiate movements occur in the anterior portion of the frontal lobes, the prefrontal area .This is a region of the association cortex
It also says: In relation to its involvement in motivation, the prefrontal area is also thought to be the functional centre for aggression
"
==========================================
Next is a bit o Bio.
As we all know, only now do we know that everything was made of water, and we are certain that some sort of big bang happened. So we are in agreement on the following.
Cytoplasm which is a basic substance in cells are 80% water.
Most organisms also consist of somewhere between 50-90% water.
Humans 71%. {give or take}
And every living entity needs water to exist.
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one Unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? {21:30}
And Allah has created Every animal from water.{ 24:45}
It is He Who has Created man from water: Then has He established Relationships of lineage And marriage: for thy Lord Has power (over all things). {25:54}
-=============================
It was long thought that plants didnt have sexes until recently.
And has sent Down water from the sky. With it have We produced Diverse pairs of plants Each separate from the others. {20:53}
And fruit Of every kind He made In pairs, two and two. {13-3}
{a little info} http://www.physorg.com/news143899812.html
And of everything We have created pairs. {51:49}
Glory to Allah, Who created In pairs all things that The earth produces, as well as Their own (human) kind And (other) things of which They have no knowledge. {36-36}
================================
Next on Zoology.
There is not an animal (That lives) on the earth, Nor a being that flies On its wings, but (forms Part of) communities like you. {6:38}
We know because of research that animals and birds organize, live and work together.
And thy Lord taught the Bee To build its cells in hills, On trees, and in (mens) habitations; Then to eat of all The produce (of the earth), And find with skill the spacious Paths of its Lord. {16: 68-69}
Karl Ritter von Frisch (November 20, 1886 June 12, 1982) was an
Austrian ethologist who received the
Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1973, along with
Nikolaas Tinbergen and
Konrad Lorenz.
His work centered on investigations of the sensory perceptions of the
honey bee and he was one of the first to translate the meaning of the
waggle dance. His theory was disputed by other scientists and greeted with skepticism at the time. Only recently was it definitively proved to be accurate theoretical analysis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_von_Frisch
{summary}After discovering any new garden or flower the Bee goes back and tells its co-bees the exact direction and map to get there, which is known as bee dance. The meanings of this movement are to transmit information between them. They have been discovered using photography and other methods..
And find with skill the spacious Paths of its Lord.
The parable of those who Take protectors other than Allah Is that of the Spider, Who builds (to itself) A house; but truly The flimsiest of houses Is the Spiders house, If they but knew. {29: 41}
If your not sure just how incredibly powerful a spiders web is, maybe you should check.
And before Solomon were marshalled His hosts of Jinns and men And birds, and they were all Kept in order and ranks. At length, when they came To a (lowly) valley of ants, One of the ants said: O ye ants, get into Your habitations, lest Solomon And his hosts crush you (Under foot) without knowing it. {27: 17-18}
Before a long time people would have laughed about ants talking to each other.
Now though we know how sophisticated ants really are and how they:
Bury their dead in a similar way that we do.
Have a remarkably sophisticated communication system
Have meetings every now and then and talk.
Have regular markets where they exchange goods.
Have an extremely organised structure, with supervisors, workers, managers Etc..etc..etc
We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam)." (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! "This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs! {10: 90-91}
"So this day We shall deliver your (dead) body (out from the sea) that you may be a sign to those who come after you! And verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Ayat (verses, signs, revelations, etc.)" (10:92)
Pharaoh died from asphyxiation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Bucaille
Dr. Maurice Bucaille, who (being also a Christian) was conversant with the Biblical version of Pharaoh's story as being drowned in pursuit of Prophet Moses, only till late 20th century did he realise, the Holy Quran made the definite prediction about the preservation of the body of that same Pharaoh of Moses' time.
In his book, The Bible, The Quran and Science, Bucaille aims to prove the Quran is in agreement with scientific facts, while the Bible is not. He claims that in Islam, science and religion have always been twin sisters (vii). According to Bucaille, there are monumental errors of science in the Bible and not a single error in the Quran (120), whose descriptions of natural phenomena make it compatible with modern science. Bucaille concludes that the Quran is the reliable word of God.
He later learned Arabic and then became Muslim.
The body is usually lying in Cairo museum but it tours around I remember it being in Chicago a while ago if im not mistaken as well as Dallas Texas etc
Lol you know what ill stop here and call it a day and note I havent even scratched the surface of these subjects and I havent even gone in depth.
Not to mention that I have excluded most if not all Astronomy/Cosmology, Medicine, Physiology, Step by Step Embryonic process that would take pages up, Senses, speed of light etc
There are lots of different verses that explain the same things, but I selected a few here and there. I didnt want to bore you with science and maths and how to cure the problems of the world etc
A. Einstein : Science without religion is lame, and religion without science is blind.
It might be interesting to note that our history and huge scientific, philosophic etc
contribution to the world is completely forgotten about and not mentioned for some reason. I saw on one of the threads here someone talking about Nobel prize winners and that 1 Muslim maybe of everyone would get an award trying to imply that we are backward and that we dont have scientists or we are stupid, I would urge those people to use all three of their brain cells to push a little further research wise before opening their mouths. You just might find that things are far from what you think, see or speak.
ANYWAY, PLEASE NOT THAT THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION IS NOT A 100% ACURATE AND SOME WORDS THAT ARE IN ARABIC WOULD DESCRIBE SOMETHING SPACIFIC OR ONE WORD CAN MEAN 3-4 DIFFERENT WORDS TOGETHER, WHICH CAN NOT DESCRIBE THE PROPER MESSAGE OF THE VERSE BECAUSE ENGLISH AND MOST LANGUAGES ARE POOR LANGUAGES COMPARED TO THE RICH ARABIC LANGUAGE SO THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE EXACT TRANSLATIONS, FORCING THE TRANSLATOR TO USE THE NEXT BEST WORD THAT DESCRIBES THE WORD/SITUATION.
That is why the Arabic text is always next to the translation.
The Holy Quran is FLAWLESS. 0 contradictions, 0 mistakes, 0 changes have been made and it is still a 100% the same as 1400yrs ago, there are no
Versions as some might like to believe.
=============================================================
Now let me remind you once more:
Leothwyn:
they did have a much closer relationship to nature than we do,
but they didn't have a great understanding of how it worked beyond what they personally experienced.
stories that were made up thousands of years ago by people who had
very limited scientific knowledge
Afrawfraw:
1} "Just asking for a
little evidence before we come to a conclusion."
2} "Mystery's are
NOT evidence."
3} "Evidence, to me, are
facts,
supported by scientific findings."
3}"
If a theory is tested by new evidence, it will be considered with an
OPEN MIND"
4}"No evidence of Magic=NO MAGIC!"
Ok so which one of the above did I come short in other than 2? Though I think we can even include 2 since the more we know about science the more unknown mysteries we unlock.
Then refute anything that I have presented so we can weed out what you dont agree with and continue with the rest.
Now can you both please explain to me HOW could a MAN that is not able to write or read, come up with a book of this magnitude in the middle of the dessert?
And dont tell me it was MAGIC- because ill use ur formula against you.
.
As soon as you get through this then we can progress to more complex issues.
On another note I asked a question a while back on this thread about who would be able to tell you what a machine is without inspection by anyone. And the answer was somewhat like the manufacturer or designer or producer.
Earth...Do you get the drift now?
And about Christianity I am here to serve.
I {god willing} will show you what your eyes have probably not seen before, what ever testament the Christians hold bring it forth and ill show you Islam inside it and ill even go further and show you that the Crucifixion/Resurrection never happened, that Jesus{pbuh} wasnt God and that Jesus foretold Islam and prophet Muhammad{pbuh}.
And if you want to see the contradictions that you probably havent seen ill present those too.
PS. This is not an insult to faithful Christians I will simply provide PROOF and you can throw it out or pick at it, either way no disrespect. So please no foul language etc
And what ever misconception you may have, doubts, rumours or brainwashing you may have been subjected to, fire away ALL your questions about any aspect{talked about above or not} and I will try and answer them to clear them all.
By the way one of the challenges the Quran has presented for the past 1400 years has been to try and produce a similar Surah/Chapter in Arabic.
And 100s of years have passed and everyone who has tried from all over the world, especially famous Arabs have ended in misery, the challenge still holds its position if ur interested in taking a swing at it
J.
Or do they say: "He (Muhammad{buh}) has forged it?" Say: "Bring then a surah (chapter) like unto it, and call upon whomsoever you can, besides Allah, if you are truthful! {10: 37-38}
And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'an) to Our slave (Muhammad {pbuh}), then produce a surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful. {2:23}
And finally as i end ill say a few.
The hardest war is the war against your ego and yourself.
And to every road to success there is a hard battle and nothing comes easy or for free.
peace.
.
