OutDaCloset
Active Member
everybody just shut up!
OutDaCloset
Active Member
grab ur bong, bowl, pipe, joint, blunt, etc.!
OutDaCloset
Active Member
make the appropriate preparations for smoking!
OutDaCloset
Active Member
take a hit............
OutDaCloset
Active Member
and another................
OutDaCloset
Active Member
argument resolved!!!
Mr.KushMan
Well-Known Member
I don't see the need to add islam. Maybe you can enlighten me to its superior importance over the topics discussed. Maybe you didn't get the memo, but "The Greatest Story Ever Told" section is about religion in general, notice how they thoroughly depict the doctrine from many other cultures including the sun god Horus, who has a near identical story and set of stories behind him to that of Jesus.
I don't know why you so persistently refuse to give up the God delusion. I read an article calling "god" merely a neurological secretion. I have found the idea of God to keep me thinking Good and Bad, where as I realize things are much more complex. This Good and Bad being a function of the reptilian brain, where as the neocortex keeps trying to rectify and recalculate the perceptive disturbances. Religion keep people shallow and hidden from their true potential.
Peace
EDIT: @ OutDaCloset - Sorry!
I don't know why you so persistently refuse to give up the God delusion. I read an article calling "god" merely a neurological secretion. I have found the idea of God to keep me thinking Good and Bad, where as I realize things are much more complex. This Good and Bad being a function of the reptilian brain, where as the neocortex keeps trying to rectify and recalculate the perceptive disturbances. Religion keep people shallow and hidden from their true potential.
Peace
EDIT: @ OutDaCloset - Sorry!
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
What things does the Quran say about embryology that was not known or could be figured out back when it was written? Even the most ancient people were hardly stupid, they came up with many things correct about nature. One thing about embryology that I doubt is present is the fact that every species goes through stages of its ancestor predecessors. Because if it says that, then why doesn't Islam accept common ancestry of Darwinism?
Just a question, why are you here on a marijuana website? Isn't it forbidden to take intoxicants?
dickdasterdly666
Well-Known Member
Oh sorry about that my last link was broke in my last post.I don't see the need to add islam. Maybe you can enlighten me to its superior importance over the topics discussed. Maybe you didn't get the memo, but "The Greatest Story Ever Told" section is about religion in general, notice how they thoroughly depict the doctrine from many other cultures including the sun god Horus, who has a near identical story and set of stories behind him to that of Jesus.
I don't know why you so persistently refuse to give up the God delusion. I read an article calling "god" merely a neurological secretion. I have found the idea of God to keep me thinking Good and Bad, where as I realize things are much more complex. This Good and Bad being a function of the reptilian brain, where as the neocortex keeps trying to rectify and recalculate the perceptive disturbances. Religion keep people shallow and hidden from their true potential.
Peace
EDIT: @ OutDaCloset - Sorry!
here before you run along with your ZG hero:
http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-one/
This will clear up all the misconceptions running around in your mind about the subject.
and I think it is interesting that Islam is not mentioned in a film of that caliber since its being targeted from every other angle, why not do the same with this, i mean it would only be for the better right? unless that exposes the films credibility?
=====================================================================================================
"ZG, Addendum, is also 2 hours long. Yet, "Islam" is only mentioned 3 times in ZG Addendum but in a general way at the same time as addressing Judaism & Christianity. Again, there was no mention of sharia law, sharia banking or finance or investment or the Islamic monetary system whatsoever."
"The Zeitgeist Movement whether inadvertent or not up-holds Islam as superior by default in the eyes of Muslims since Islam is not addressed. And Muslims are using Zeitgeist to their advantage. We need some balance here. If ZG is attempting to be a worldwide movement then that movement must also address Islamic issues too. By addressing Christianity but not Islam it's only addressing half the problem. It's like addressing the right hand but omitting what the left hand is doing."
"I look forward to the day that TZGM members and moderators have the integrity to criticize Islam equal to the level they criticized Christianity in Zeitgeist part 1."
"The Zeitgeist Movement has no problem bashing religion EXCEPT when it comes to addressing Islam. Suddenly, TZGM members find it a useful, convenient tactic to get offended out of proportion & make demands for immediate censorship."
And if you didnt notice, the link you saw before which the above quotes are from was an ANTI-ISLAMIC site.So im not even making this up from my side and im not giving you Islamic sites to look at.
======================================================================================================
"Religion keep people shallow and hidden from their true potential."
Im not sure which religion your talking about but i think you need to have a look at history from all angles before you make a statement like that.
Mr.KushMan
Well-Known Member
I speak of all religion, it pries people away from critical thinking by convincing them that everything is completely watched over, and is the way it is because. Making them submissive to authority, creating prime candidates to die in war for falsified beliefs. Every form of belief that requires sets and standards, procedures or rituals, removes the person from the true nature of their own existence. Ultimately coming back to a philosophical-mixture of quantum physics and solipsism, where by self philosophizing is the most important staple in the life of any mind.
Peace
dickdasterdly666
Well-Known Member
"What things does the Quran say about embryology that was not known or could be figured out back when it was written?"
Professor Keith L. Moore.
Keith L. Moore is a professor emeritus in the division of anatomy (department of surgery), former Chair of anatomy from 1974 to 1984[1] and associate dean for Basic Medical Sciences (Faculty of Medicine) at the University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. He has also worked at the King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Moreover, he is a founding member of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists (AACA). He was President of the AACA between 1989 and 1991[2]. He is most known for his textbooks on the subjects of anatomy and human embryology.
He has co-written (with professor Arthur F. Dalley II) Clinically Oriented Anatomy, which is the most popular English-language anatomy textbook in the world, used by scientists, doctors, physiotherapists and students worldwide. The book is especially popular because of its 'blue boxes' - passages of text on blue background that relate the classical anatomy to real-world concepts in the diagnosis and treatment of human patients. The book has been translated into multiple languages. He also co-wrote (with professor Anne M. R. Agur) Essential Clinical Anatomy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_L._Moore {early 1980s}
here is his testimony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg5aVgwN_2E
and here is a glimpse of the process:
"Man we did create from a quintessence (of clay); Then we placed as (a drop of) sperm (nutfah) in a place firmly fixed; Then we made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood (alaqah); Then of that clot we made a (fetus) lump (mudghah); then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature." {23:12-14}
And it goes on and on to explain all the verses in detail with the professor.http://thisistruth.org/truth.php?f=CreationOfMan
==============
"then why doesn't Islam accept common ancestry of Darwinism?"
In reality Islam doesn't clash much with Darwin's evolution sayings so im not sure why you think we do? What we oppose is the notion that things came about by mistake-by nothing, as far as we are concerned we do support a type of evolution.{unless the text is read and accepted literally.}
Many Muslim scholars, from the golden age of Islam to today, adopted an evolutionary world view, and it is even supported in ways in the Quran.
----------------------------------------------------------
"Islam Darwin Problem"
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/10/25/in_the_muslim_world_creationism_is_on_the_rise/?page=full
----------------------------------------------------------
I wont answer your last question, no offense. lets stay on the subject.
Brazko
Well-Known Member
Here's a little Random Comic Relief for all the Stressed Out Stoners 
[youtube]QrE17OVVW_E[/youtube]
I'm sorry, pls continue....
[youtube]QrE17OVVW_E[/youtube]
I'm sorry, pls continue....
dickdasterdly666
Well-Known Member
lol btw im not sure you know im muslim.
anyways
Maybe its because '"Islam"' is so god damned far left field that there is only time to be wasted commenting on it.
I disagree, you might not be able to see where im cumming from as you have to be on the front of the cannon to see the bullet{which means you have to be a Muslim under fire by most of the world}.
Anyone with the capacity to make a movie to bash all religions will include all religions as there is a point after it, and if they remove the ONLY religion that is being attacked world wide, there is something not right.
The above verses that you commented on are quotes from the article i posted in my previous reply, so you weren't exactly meant to reply to them heheh. I like to give sources from none-Muslim sites to keep the balance that's all.
"I speak of all religion, it pries people away from critical thinking by convincing them that everything is completely watched over, and is the way it isbecause. Making them submissive to authority, creating prime candidates to die in war for falsified beliefs. Every form of belief that requires sets and standards, procedures or rituals, removes the person from the true nature of their own existence. Ultimately coming back to a philosophical-mixture of quantum physics and solipsism, where by self philosophizing is the most important staple in the life of any mind."
You obviously haven't heard of what Islam really is and that such a description that you listed above doesn't apply.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
Things are far from what they seem.
peace
.dickdasterdly666
Well-Known Member
Who said anything was created in 7 days?
Leothwyn
Well-Known Member
The bible and quran do. In modern times, as old tales continue to become irrelevant and are proven wrong, people generally start to loosen up their interpretations. So, the 6 or 7 day creation myth conveniently gets a new interpretation. A 'day' now really means thousands or millions of years. Strange that in all of the old tales, nobody thought to mention that equation. That's the thing about these old myths and tales... they're so vague, that re-interpreting them is pretty easy - as we've seen with your proclamations about ancient islam's great understanding of geology, biology, etc.. That's how mountains being called 'firm' can be interpreted as a thorough understanding of plate tectonics.
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
Dr. Moore may be quite impressed but not me.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/embryo.html
Sura 22:5 says "We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then from a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed ... and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes." Sura 23:13-14 repeats this idea by saying God "placed him as (a drop of) sperm (nutfah) in a place of rest, firmly fixed; then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood (alaqa); then out of that clot We made a (foetus) lump (mudghah), then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then We developed out of it another creature." 75:38 also says man becomes an alaqa and 96:2 says we came from alaq.
Moore however goes further and incredibly he claims in a later edition of his textbook that the Qur'an "states that the resulting organism settles in the womb like a seed, 6 days after its beginning" [9]. This really would be amazing if it was true. Actually the Qur'an says nothing of the sort.
We have to ask what the precise meaning of these words is in order to know whether the verses contain important scientific statements that have only recently been discovered, as Moore and others claim. In comparison with the meaning of nutfah, it is rather more difficult to understand what alaqa means. Many different suggestions have been made: clot (Pickthall, Maulana Muhammed Ali, Muhammed Zafrulla Khan, Hamidullah), small lump of blood (Kasimirski), leech-like clot (Yusuf Ali), and "leech, suspended thing or blood clot" (Moore, op. cit.). Moore suggests that the appearance of an embryo of 24 days' gestation resembles a leech, though this is rather debatable. In side view the developing umbilicus (genetically part of the embryo) is almost as big as the "leech-shaped" part into which a human is formed and the developing placenta (which also consists of tissue that is genetically from the embryo) is much larger than the embryo. It is claimed that the ancient sages would not have been able to see an embryo about 3mm long and describe it as leech-like, but Aristotle correctly described the function of the umbilical cord, by which the embryo "clings" to the uterus wall in the fourth century B.C. [10]. It is impossible to believe the suggestion of Bachir Torki [11] that alaq in 96:2 means links, referring to the gene code of DNA, as this makes a nonsense out of other verses where the word is used, such as 22:5 ("we made you from a drop of sperm, then from that a gene code, then from that a little lump of flesh....").
A 24/25 day embryo at the alaqa stage, approx. 2 mm long
To establish a definition for alaqa we might take a look at the Qamus al-Muheet, one of the most important Arabic dictionaries ever compiled, by Muhammed Ibn-Yaqub al-Firuzabadi (AD 1329-1415) [12]. He says that alaqa has the same meaning as a clot of blood. In 96:2 the word alaq is used, which is both a collective plural and a verbal noun. The latter form conveys the sense of man being created from clinging material or possibly clay, which is consistent with the creation of Adam in the Bible from the dust of the ground (Genesis 2:7) and some of the other Qur'anic verses listed above. However, the translators of the Qur'an have all translated alaq as "clot" as opposed to "clinging" in 96:2 because the use of the singular alaqa elsewhere forces them to use "clot" here too, despite the attraction for the meaning "clinging" or leech-like which is perhaps more scientifically accurate.
Another source of information are the early Muslim commentators. Ibn Kathir wrote that when the drop of water (nutfah) settled in the womb it stayed there for forty days and then became a red clot (alaqa), staying there for another forty days before turning to mudghah, a piece of flesh without shape or form. Finally it began to take on a shape and form. Both ar-Razi and as-Suyuti [13] claimed that the dust referred both to Adam's creation and to the man's discharge; nutfah referred to the water from the male and alaqa was a solidified piece of blood clot. Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya (died about AD 1350) wrote that "the foetus is a living or dead babe animal which is sometimes found in the womb of a slaughtered animal, and its blood is congested" [14]. Another great physician, Ibn al-Quff wrote some 13 out of 60 chapters from "On Health Preservation" about embryology and pregnancy. He included a further stage of development one week after conception, the foam stage or raghwah. Up to 16 days the embryo was alaqa (clot) and after 27 to 30 days the clot turns into a lump of meat, mudghah [15]. These dates must be regarded as very approximate but are nevertheless a major improvement on what one of the most reliable Hadiths says about foetal development, as we shall see later.
A 26/27 day embryo, said to resemble a mouthful of flesh, but only 3 mm long
Moving onto the next stage of development, Razi described the mudghah as being a little piece of meat the size of what a man can chew. The idea that mudghah means chewed flesh is a later, and less accurate translation of the word, but the idea has persisted because it is claimed that the somites from which the backbone and other trunk structures develop bear a passing resemblance to teeth marks implanted in plastercine. It must be said that not only is this an imaginative interpretation however, but besides, Moore cannot claim that the mudghah should occur at 26-27 days since at that point the embryo is a mere 4mm long. One would have to wait around 8 weeks before the embryo was the size of chewed flesh (if a mouthful is defined as being 20-30mm wide), which is what mudghah really means. And in the following Hadith, transmitted by Bukhari and Muslim, Muhammed claims that the mudghah stage occurs between days 80 and 120. Yet by this time the foetus is considerably larger than a lump of flesh the size of which a man can chew, and looks very human-like and totally unlike meat.
`Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported that Allah's Messenger ... said: "Verily your creation is on this wise. The constituents of one of you are collected for forty days in his mother's womb in the form of blood [sperm?], after which it becomes a clot of blood in another period of forty days. Then it becomes a lump of flesh and forty days later Allah sends his angel to it ..."
Thus according to Muhammed, the drop of sperm remains in the womb for 40 days, then becomes a clot for a further 40 days, then a lump of flesh for 40 days [16]. It has been shown that human sperm can only survive inside a woman's reproductive tract for a maximum of 7 days; at 80 days the embryo has very definitely acquired the shape of a human being and looks nothing like either a clot or a mouthful of flesh.
An eleven week foetus, real size 7.5 cm, but according to Muhammed still at the alaqa stage, a clot of blood
The final stage of human development which the Qur'an describes is the creation of bones, and the clothing of bones with flesh. However, according to modern embryologists including Prof. Moore, the tissue from which bone originates, known as mesoderm, is the same tissue as that from which muscle ("flesh") develops [17]. Thus bone and muscles begin to develop simultaneously, rather than sequentially. Whereas however most of the muscle tissue that we have is laid down before birth, bones continue to develop and calcify (strengthen with calcium) right into one's teenage years. So far from bones being clothed with flesh, it would be more accurate if the Qur'an had said that muscles started to develop at the same time as bones, but completed their development earlier. The idea that bones are clothed with flesh is not only scientifically completely false, but is directly copied from the ancient Greek doctor Galen, as we shall see shortly.
Some possible explanations
Aristotle believed that humans originated from the action of male semen upon female menstrual blood [18] which leaves us with something of a dilemma. If we translate alaqa as "clot" it means that the Qur'an is completely wrong about human development, since there is absolutely no stage during which the embryo consists of a clot. The only situation in which an embryo might appear like a clot is during a miscarriage, in which case the clotted blood which is seen to emerge (much of which comes from the mother incidentally) is solidified and by definition no longer alive. So if ever an embryo appeared to look like a clot it would never develop any further into a human; it would be a dead mass of bloody miscarrying flesh. Since Muhammed had several wives it is entirely likely that he would be very familiar with miscarriages. Alternatively it could be hinting at Aristotle's incorrect belief that the embryo originated from the combination of male sperm and female menstrual blood.
Moore avoids this problem by translating alaqa as a leech, since he is well aware that there is no stage in development when the embryo is a clot. As we have seen however, this is only to justify his interpretation that an embryo of 24-25 days is a clinging leech-like alaqa and one at 26-27 days is a mudghah with teeth-marks. A further problem with this view is that if the alaqa is translated "leech" because it appears to be clinging to the uterus wall, does this mean that the foetus only clings to the uterus wall for a few days? Obviously it remains attached for the entire nine months of gestation.
There are other problems with Moore's interpretation too. Not least is the claim of Muhammed that the dates of the alaqa and mudghah were 40-80 days and 80-120 days of gestation respectively, rather than 24-25 days and 26-27 days. It also begs the question as to why, if the Qur'an really is giving us a highly precise scientific account of human development, it only mentions four stages, nutfah, alaqa, mudghah, plus the clothing of bones with flesh. Between fertilization and day 28 for example Moore lists no fewer than 13 stages in his textbook. Why does the Qur'an say nothing about any of these other stages? The reality is that the more ambiguous the meaning of the Arabic terms, and the more meanings that can be attached to certain words, the less convincingly can they be said to be highly precise scientific terms.
However, the most convincing explanation, and the most worrying for those who maintain that the Qur'an is God's eternal Word, untampered with and free from any human interference, is that the Qur'an is merely repeating the teaching of the enormously influential Greek physician Galen. If this is the case, not only is the Qur'an wrong, but it also plagiarises ancient Greek literature!
Babs34
Well-Known Member
The quran serves as the finest work of plagiarism known throughout history.
dickdasterdly666
Well-Known Member
First of all, you have no clue what you are talking about, that's why i haven't even bothered to reply to most of your posts if you haven't noticed. you talk with no knowledge about anything and your so stuck far behind that i cant even pull you out with a winch. really i would love to sit and spoon feed you information contrary to what you think you know. But that's not really my problem and im not trying to make it mine that's why ill refrain from a direct reply.
peace....
dickdasterdly666
Well-Known Member
"@ dickdasterdly666, this is where your conclusions fail. People aren't actively NOT believing in a god for ulterior motives like you imply, to feel powerful or whatever."{As i mentioned before, YOU PERSONALLY, dont speak about others because hardly any 2 Atheists have the same Views"Dr. Moore may be quite impressed but not me.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/embryo.html
Sura 22:5 says "We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then from a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed ... and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes." Sura 23:13-14 repeats this idea by saying God "placed him as (a drop of) sperm (nutfah) in a place of rest, firmly fixed; then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood (alaqa); then out of that clot We made a (foetus) lump (mudghah), then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then We developed out of it another creature." 75:38 also says man becomes an alaqa and 96:2 says we came from alaq.
Moore however goes further and incredibly he claims in a later edition of his textbook that the Qur'an "states that the resulting organism settles in the womb like a seed, 6 days after its beginning" [9]. This really would be amazing if it was true. Actually the Qur'an says nothing of the sort.
We have to ask what the precise meaning of these words is in order to know whether the verses contain important scientific statements that have only recently been discovered, as Moore and others claim. In comparison with the meaning of nutfah, it is rather more difficult to understand what alaqa means. Many different suggestions have been made: clot (Pickthall, Maulana Muhammed Ali, Muhammed Zafrulla Khan, Hamidullah), small lump of blood (Kasimirski), leech-like clot (Yusuf Ali), and "leech, suspended thing or blood clot" (Moore, op. cit.). Moore suggests that the appearance of an embryo of 24 days' gestation resembles a leech, though this is rather debatable. In side view the developing umbilicus (genetically part of the embryo) is almost as big as the "leech-shaped" part into which a human is formed and the developing placenta (which also consists of tissue that is genetically from the embryo) is much larger than the embryo. It is claimed that the ancient sages would not have been able to see an embryo about 3mm long and describe it as leech-like, but Aristotle correctly described the function of the umbilical cord, by which the embryo "clings" to the uterus wall in the fourth century B.C. [10]. It is impossible to believe the suggestion of Bachir Torki [11] that alaq in 96:2 means links, referring to the gene code of DNA, as this makes a nonsense out of other verses where the word is used, such as 22:5 ("we made you from a drop of sperm, then from that a gene code, then from that a little lump of flesh....").
A 24/25 day embryo at the alaqa stage, approx. 2 mm long
To establish a definition for alaqa we might take a look at the Qamus al-Muheet, one of the most important Arabic dictionaries ever compiled, by Muhammed Ibn-Yaqub al-Firuzabadi (AD 1329-1415) [12]. He says that alaqa has the same meaning as a clot of blood. In 96:2 the word alaq is used, which is both a collective plural and a verbal noun. The latter form conveys the sense of man being created from clinging material or possibly clay, which is consistent with the creation of Adam in the Bible from the dust of the ground (Genesis 2:7) and some of the other Qur'anic verses listed above. However, the translators of the Qur'an have all translated alaq as "clot" as opposed to "clinging" in 96:2 because the use of the singular alaqa elsewhere forces them to use "clot" here too, despite the attraction for the meaning "clinging" or leech-like which is perhaps more scientifically accurate.
Another source of information are the early Muslim commentators. Ibn Kathir wrote that when the drop of water (nutfah) settled in the womb it stayed there for forty days and then became a red clot (alaqa), staying there for another forty days before turning to mudghah, a piece of flesh without shape or form. Finally it began to take on a shape and form. Both ar-Razi and as-Suyuti [13] claimed that the dust referred both to Adam's creation and to the man's discharge; nutfah referred to the water from the male and alaqa was a solidified piece of blood clot. Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya (died about AD 1350) wrote that "the foetus is a living or dead babe animal which is sometimes found in the womb of a slaughtered animal, and its blood is congested" [14]. Another great physician, Ibn al-Quff wrote some 13 out of 60 chapters from "On Health Preservation" about embryology and pregnancy. He included a further stage of development one week after conception, the foam stage or raghwah. Up to 16 days the embryo was alaqa (clot) and after 27 to 30 days the clot turns into a lump of meat, mudghah [15]. These dates must be regarded as very approximate but are nevertheless a major improvement on what one of the most reliable Hadiths says about foetal development, as we shall see later.
A 26/27 day embryo, said to resemble a mouthful of flesh, but only 3 mm long
Moving onto the next stage of development, Razi described the mudghah as being a little piece of meat the size of what a man can chew. The idea that mudghah means chewed flesh is a later, and less accurate translation of the word, but the idea has persisted because it is claimed that the somites from which the backbone and other trunk structures develop bear a passing resemblance to teeth marks implanted in plastercine. It must be said that not only is this an imaginative interpretation however, but besides, Moore cannot claim that the mudghah should occur at 26-27 days since at that point the embryo is a mere 4mm long. One would have to wait around 8 weeks before the embryo was the size of chewed flesh (if a mouthful is defined as being 20-30mm wide), which is what mudghah really means. And in the following Hadith, transmitted by Bukhari and Muslim, Muhammed claims that the mudghah stage occurs between days 80 and 120. Yet by this time the foetus is considerably larger than a lump of flesh the size of which a man can chew, and looks very human-like and totally unlike meat.
`Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported that Allah's Messenger ... said: "Verily your creation is on this wise. The constituents of one of you are collected for forty days in his mother's womb in the form of blood [sperm?], after which it becomes a clot of blood in another period of forty days. Then it becomes a lump of flesh and forty days later Allah sends his angel to it ..."
Thus according to Muhammed, the drop of sperm remains in the womb for 40 days, then becomes a clot for a further 40 days, then a lump of flesh for 40 days [16]. It has been shown that human sperm can only survive inside a woman's reproductive tract for a maximum of 7 days; at 80 days the embryo has very definitely acquired the shape of a human being and looks nothing like either a clot or a mouthful of flesh.
An eleven week foetus, real size 7.5 cm, but according to Muhammed still at the alaqa stage, a clot of blood
The final stage of human development which the Qur'an describes is the creation of bones, and the clothing of bones with flesh. However, according to modern embryologists including Prof. Moore, the tissue from which bone originates, known as mesoderm, is the same tissue as that from which muscle ("flesh") develops [17]. Thus bone and muscles begin to develop simultaneously, rather than sequentially. Whereas however most of the muscle tissue that we have is laid down before birth, bones continue to develop and calcify (strengthen with calcium) right into one's teenage years. So far from bones being clothed with flesh, it would be more accurate if the Qur'an had said that muscles started to develop at the same time as bones, but completed their development earlier. The idea that bones are clothed with flesh is not only scientifically completely false, but is directly copied from the ancient Greek doctor Galen, as we shall see shortly.
Some possible explanations
Aristotle believed that humans originated from the action of male semen upon female menstrual blood [18] which leaves us with something of a dilemma. If we translate alaqa as "clot" it means that the Qur'an is completely wrong about human development, since there is absolutely no stage during which the embryo consists of a clot. The only situation in which an embryo might appear like a clot is during a miscarriage, in which case the clotted blood which is seen to emerge (much of which comes from the mother incidentally) is solidified and by definition no longer alive. So if ever an embryo appeared to look like a clot it would never develop any further into a human; it would be a dead mass of bloody miscarrying flesh. Since Muhammed had several wives it is entirely likely that he would be very familiar with miscarriages. Alternatively it could be hinting at Aristotle's incorrect belief that the embryo originated from the combination of male sperm and female menstrual blood.
Moore avoids this problem by translating alaqa as a leech, since he is well aware that there is no stage in development when the embryo is a clot. As we have seen however, this is only to justify his interpretation that an embryo of 24-25 days is a clinging leech-like alaqa and one at 26-27 days is a mudghah with teeth-marks. A further problem with this view is that if the alaqa is translated "leech" because it appears to be clinging to the uterus wall, does this mean that the foetus only clings to the uterus wall for a few days? Obviously it remains attached for the entire nine months of gestation.
There are other problems with Moore's interpretation too. Not least is the claim of Muhammed that the dates of the alaqa and mudghah were 40-80 days and 80-120 days of gestation respectively, rather than 24-25 days and 26-27 days. It also begs the question as to why, if the Qur'an really is giving us a highly precise scientific account of human development, it only mentions four stages, nutfah, alaqa, mudghah, plus the clothing of bones with flesh. Between fertilization and day 28 for example Moore lists no fewer than 13 stages in his textbook. Why does the Qur'an say nothing about any of these other stages? The reality is that the more ambiguous the meaning of the Arabic terms, and the more meanings that can be attached to certain words, the less convincingly can they be said to be highly precise scientific terms.
However, the most convincing explanation, and the most worrying for those who maintain that the Qur'an is God's eternal Word, untampered with and free from any human interference, is that the Qur'an is merely repeating the teaching of the enormously influential Greek physician Galen. If this is the case, not only is the Qur'an wrong, but it also plagiarises ancient Greek literature!
Mr.Kushman:
"You can call me looney, or an easily lead cattle, but at least what I hold as true has some grounds in the world we live in and is able to precipitate a sense of security and assurance and proves to resist the freak show from enamoring and fettering my sense of self."
And this is where Atheists clash, you only compliment each other to certain points you agree on.
Dawkins thinks humanity should follow Darwin just long enough to cast off Jesus Christ and religion as a whole etc..., then ditch Darwin in favor of following Dawkins opinion on life, the universe and everything.
LOL im happy that you took my advice and Googled websites to prove your point, but it actually put you in an even more retarded position than before and it exposed your self and motives to yourself, if you cant accept that, you wont accept anything.
You see iv talked about what you just did a few times before in our conversation, but pure blindness prevailed i guess, and thats the problem.
ill remind you AGAIN since you seem to be running around in circles with your unsure self.
me:
"lol you hardly sunk any ones battle ship, in fact you just bumped your lil rubber dinghy into my battle ship, i thought you ought to be smart enough to know that if YOU could sink my battle ship then all the governments around us would not have to invent lies, make 100s of fake Islamic websites, write 100s of thousands of books, and get fake bearded men on youtube telling people to kill each other{and then they get exposed for being mostly Jewish Zionists and one of them is even a powerful US government officials grandson}. And effectively throw the cloak of terrorism over us."
"They would have simply exposed{and they are FULLY capable} the Quran as the bible was exposed and that would pretty much end things for the most part, but they have no choice, because they are smarter than that, not to mention you would be pretty hazed out to think that all over history hundreds and hundreds have not tried on that before you but failed miserably."
{frawfraw}
"if you present R-E-A-L evidence to an Atheist, he/she will investigate it to the fullest, like any other evidence collected."
Great now since you went 1/2 way into trying to prove me wrong, did you ask yourself what if the information you just presented was all lies? did you try and look at the other side of the coin? NO.
Why? because your in that hazey mood and again you are not looking for information with an OPEN mind as you said, you are looking for the cracks as i already mentioned earlier. Thats why i said you wont ever get any point other than the one your brain has programmed itself into being and thats why the ultimate human challenge is the one against himself.
But its ok ill help you out on that.
lol answering-islam.com have been bashed and exposed so much, but funny enough people still brows through the site and find the information they want to believe.
There are 100s of those sites as i ALREADY mentioned and that's what Islam has to deal with all the time. Do you still not see the fabrications imposed? you are not worthy of a reply on this subject so i don't want waist my time by proving you wrong.
http://www.answeringchristianity.net/nadeem_embryology.htm
Before you go any further the following site should have almost any answer to anything you can possibly think off, a rebuttal to the exact article you presented and a rebuttal and destruction of every lie, fabrication and misinterpretation the entire website you presented has to offer, and even further it exposes every single one of their representatives and their lining and misleading aims, and if you are really a Knowledge seeker as you claim, you will find an abundance on it. And as i mentioned BEFORE, do not mention Greek names and act as if you have something in hand when you dont. always double and triple check your information.
Lol seriously how low these people are to even lie and conceal half descriptions of arabic words from the dictionary they use.