Who are "They"

[medicineman]

Med since you obviously harbor a tremendous contempt for the capitalist system currently in place in the USA, please enlighten me as to the existence of any superior system which has created more wealth for more humans.
What system currently or historically has achieved any remote semblance to what the horrible USA has accomplished?
Freedom and liberty are by far the best means by which to elevate the human condition.
Collectivism/statism/socialism/communism have all demonstrated their inherent inferiority!

Wavels, here it is, now listen up. Capitalism is allright when used in moderation and allowed to benefit all the citizens involved. The USA has gone around the world raping and pillaging other countries resources. Capitalism must be responsible or it is damaging to those that do not directly benefit from it. If the capitalists had a social conscience and directly benefited everyone that had to sacrifice for the good of the corporation, then it could be a viable operating system. As it exists today, it only benefits a very small portion of the population, and causes the rest of the people to suffer. I'm talking about an infusion of social conscience into the mix. Without that, capitalism is an evil apparition. We, The USA, being the larges Capitalist economy, use about 1/4 of the worlds resources with only 1/25th of the population, or somewhere around there. I could cut and paste this info, but I'm just trying to make a point, We are taking more than our share of mother earth and the rest of the world is suffering for it. Balance and sharing, but this would also involve the super rich to give up some of their wealth. Can you see this or are you bought and paid for?

 

[WillieNelson]

^^^ You didn't answer his quesion!!!

 

[medicineman]

^^^ You didn't answer his quesion!!!

Yes I did!.

 

[joepro]

Med since you obviously harbor a tremendous contempt for the capitalist system currently in place in the USA, please enlighten me as to the existence of any superior system which has created more wealth for more humans.
What system currently or historically has achieved any remote semblance to what the horrible USA has accomplished?
Freedom and liberty are by far the best means by which to elevate the human condition.
Collectivism/statism/socialism/communism have all demonstrated their inherent inferiority!

Are capitalist system is under control by the few whos practiced views are not that far off from collectivism,statism and communism.
communism wasnt always a dirty word, it just became so by the actions of the impowered, alot like how capitalism is becoming don't you think?

the fall of communism for something better shouldnt apply to capitalism?

I feel forcing the idea of capitalism onto the world with might and underminding goverments show that the system has out lived it's life and a new "ism" is needed.maybe humanism, something along thoes lines.

 

[Wavels]

Are capitalist system is under control by the few whos practiced views are not that far off from collectivism,statism and communism.
communism wasnt always a dirty word, it just became so by the actions of the impowered, alot like how capitalism is becoming don't you think?

the fall of communism for something better shouldnt apply to capitalism?

I feel forcing the idea of capitalism onto the world with might and underminding goverments show that the system has out lived it's life and a new "ism" is needed.maybe humanism, something along thoes lines.

No one needs to "force" capitalism on any one...free markets are driven by free humans.
Liberty and freedom are what generate human excellence and innovation.
The more free a nations economy is the more productive it is.
More and more countries are adopting the US model of free enterprise...it is no coincidence that these nations rapidly become more productive and efficient...Look at Ireland...even France recently elected a man who wishes to bring about a more American-like system to enhance his nations prosperity.
The only problem with 'capitalism" in the US is that it is burdened by increasingly anti-free and anti business rules and regulation (Sarbanes Oxley for example) and taxation.
You guys are so eager to kill the "goose that laid the golden egg" because of what you perceive to be flaws or imperfections in capitalist systems. Utopias are unattainable in the real realm of human existence...human nature is what it is.
Capitalism is all about FREEDOM and LIBERTY....the restrictions thereof are the hallmark of any alternative to capitalism
IMO any system which deprives Human beings of these most basic rights is evil as well as far less productive.

And as an aside to med...You did NOT answer my question! You simply recited a hyperbolic litany of all of the imperfections of the dastardly selfish and greedy USA!

 

[ccodiane]

e=Wavels;479042]No one needs to "force" capitalism on any one...free markets are driven by free humans.
Liberty and freedom are what generate human excellence and innovation.
The more free a nations economy is the more productive it is.
More and more countries are adopting the US model of free enterprise...it is no coincidence that these nations rapidly become more productive and efficient...Look at Ireland...even France recently elected a man who wishes to bring about a more American-like system to enhance his nations prosperity.
The only problem with 'capitalism" in the US is that it is burdened by increasingly anti-free and anti business rules and regulation (Sarbanes Oxley for example) and taxation.
You guys are so eager to kill the "goose that laid the golden egg" because of what you perceive to be flaws or imperfections in capitalist systems. Utopias are unattainable in the real realm of human existence...human nature is what it is.
Capitalism is all about FREEDOM and LIBERTY....the restrictions thereof are the hallmark of any alternative to capitalism
IMO any system which deprives Human beings of these most basic rights is evil as well as far less productive.

And as an aside to med...You did NOT answer my question! You simply recited a hyperbolic litany of all of the imperfections of the dastardly selfish and greedy USA![/quote]

 

[ViRedd]

Med ...

Your post #10 in this thread is just about the best post you've ever made here in the forum. I disagree with it almost 100% ... but its your best IMO,

Vi

 

[joepro]

There is enough money to go around. If the wealthiest 5% would put 50% of their money into the social structure, this would be the greatest nation on earth. I'm not saying to hand out hundred dollar bills to the homeless, but build barracks on abandoned Military basses, put in a mess hall, open some sort of factory instead of shipping production to china, Provide medical to every citizen. Give a hand up, not a hand out. Come on now all you fellows that have made it. Are you really that insecure as to be saying fuck them. I'll bet that if you offered to help people get on their feet with programs that made them feel successful instead of feeling like a bum getting a handout, you'd see a drastic improvement in the quality of life for most everyone. Sure there are the incorrigibles, but society as a whole could be drastically improved. I'm even for building homeless shelters on golf courses.

how could someone agree with that crazy talk huh
reality(is only a mind set) is very different from the have and have not's, since one hasnt walked in the others shoes,we will never agree.

 

[WillieNelson]

Yes I did!.

What system currently or historically has achieved any remote semblance to what the horrible USA has accomplished?

What was your answer to this question?....

 

[MightyBuddha]

Been gone a year and Medicine Man is still ranting about things we can't change.

If you want to be helpful at all go to downsizedc.org and let your representatives know you want change.

 

[joepro]

What system currently or historically has achieved any remote semblance to what the horrible USA has accomplished?

What was your answer to this question?....

was the same question givin before capitalism?

cpt capitalism and it's horders think it's the be all end all.

 

[WillieNelson]

Worded slightly better:

What system is better(currently or historically) than the "horrible" capitalism of the USA?

Joepro, look into objectivism. Rand's vision of improved capitalism. She escaped communism and loced her freedom in America.

 

[tckfui]

cool thread.
whats the deal V red and Med??? I know yous are having a fight thing and dont talk to eachother, but ut seems lie yous doo a pretty crappy job at staying away from eachother... hmm wonder why... oh yea because you both have the same interests and likes, and should be on speaking terms, since you are essentially one

 

[joepro]

Worded slightly better:

What system is better(currently or historically) than the "horrible" capitalism of the USA?.

better or worse is only a point of view thats changes with history.
capitalism will be a foot note in a school book that is being read by a kid from a greater nation in the future.-capitalism will fall by it's own greedy hands.

capitalism is great for thoes who have,yes I agree with you 100%

 

[twostarhotel]

Been gone a year and Medicine Man is still ranting about things we can't change.

If you want to be helpful at all go to downsizedc.org and let your representatives know you want change.

thats a cool site i just checked it out thanks

 

[twostarhotel]

Worded slightly better:

What system is better(currently or historically) than the "horrible" capitalism of the USA?

Joepro, look into objectivism. Rand's vision of improved capitalism. She escaped communism and loced her freedom in America.

switzerland! i love that place

 

[twostarhotel]

What is Scientific Technique?

Scientific technique is much more than just the impact of new technology on the machinations of society. It is the use of science, in its most calculating and inhumane ways, to analyze, control and guide societies in a desired direction.
i honestly think that america will head in the fascist direction

 

[WillieNelson]

better or worse is only a point of view thats changes with history.
capitalism will be a foot note in a school book that is being read by a kid from a greater nation in the future.-capitalism will fall by it's own greedy hands.

capitalism is great for thoes who have,yes I agree with you 100%

So what is better than capatilism? How will this greater nation be governed? I need to know, so I can stop going to work and wait for my handouts. "Work hard for what you want" is a better solution than "I will work so you don't have to". Fuck your have and havenot bullshit. If you worked harder in school, in your job, or if you had half a brain you would have something. Without free market compition for jobs and money there is no need to work harder or to strive for improvement.

 

[Wavels]

So what is better than capatilism? How will this greater nation be governed? I need to know, so I can stop going to work and wait for my handouts. "Work hard for what you want" is a better solution than "I will work so you don't have to". Fuck your have and havenot bullshit. If you worked harder in school, in your job, or if you had half a brain you would have something. Without free market compition for jobs and money there is no need to work harder or to strive for improvement.

Hi Willie, I agree with your accurate assessment....Ayn Rand changed my life.

People of the mindset exemplified by med and joe are simply trying to re-invent the wheel.
It is pie in the sky, "make believe" idealism at it's worst.
Virtually any alternative economic system they can conjure up will deny Human Beings of FREEDOM.
Envy is an ugly emotion; it allows people to deprive themselves and others of the most basic human rights...freedom and liberty.


Objective reality has clearly indicated the best means by which to elevate the overall human condition. It is quantifiable.
Freedom pays handsome dividends.

 

[medicineman]

Hi Willie, I agree with your accurate assessment....Ayn Rand changed my life.

People of the mindset exemplified by med and joe are simply trying to re-invent the wheel.
It is pie in the sky, "make believe" idealism at it's worst.
Virtually any alternative economic system they can conjure up will deny Human Beings of FREEDOM.
Envy is an ugly emotion; it allows people to deprive themselves and others of the most basic human rights...freedom and liberty.


Objective reality has clearly indicated the best means by which to elevate the overall human condition. It is quantifiable.
Freedom pays handsome dividends.

Freedom for some means slavery for many. Your dollar two ninety-eight T shirt is made in China by capitalists for 18 cents. The workers get 2 cents apiece, yeah that is a great system for the owners of the business, but the rest of the players get the shaft. Now I know your going to tell me, "well, those players could be the owners" well, Bullshit. Not everyone can be owners and in a capitalist society, the owners rule and the workers get fucked, So in my humble estimation, there could be a better plan, like maybe a co-op type company where the employees own the company. That would give the employees incentive to work harder and better. Yeah those at the "top" wouldn't be able to walk with multi-million dollar salaries, but they don't deserve that much anyway. Please tell me how a CEO deserves 60 Million bucks a year while the factory workers are either getting laid off or working for peanuts. You oligarcic plutocratic fascists are a major pain in the ass.