What If.

undertheice

Well-Known Member
When they get enough to become oppressive to me.
so you just want everyone with the capacity to control you, whether they utilize it or not, to pay. why does this not surprise me? that is, after all, the liberal viewpoint, that no one should have any more than the most minimal amount of personal power except the almighty state. the fact that it is governments that are most responsible for worldwide oppression seems to have escaped you.
 

Carl Spackler

Well-Known Member
Saw a bumper sticker today that sums up the point of the OP..."socialism works great until you run out of other peoples money"...How's that working out for ya North Korea?
 

TheAngryLiberal

Active Member
so you just want everyone with the capacity to control you, whether they utilize it or not, to pay. why does this not surprise me? that is, after all, the liberal viewpoint, that no one should have any more than the most minimal amount of personal power except the almighty state. the fact that it is governments that are most responsible for worldwide oppression seems to have escaped you.
The fact that most of those oppressive governments are puppets of private corporations or other governments that are bent to the will of private corporations seems to have escaped you. You also seem to believe a government is a evil corrupt living person who hates freedom and not a system of public ownership, why does this not suprise me? Conservatives are, after all, painfully ignorant, that's the only thing making them conservatives (other than money/greed).
And as for the money thing HELL FUCKING NO a person or private entity should never have more power or influence than the public as a whole are you insane? Why is it conservatives are so concerned with oppressive government but you think its perfectly acceptable for a single individual to have more power than the public. You are just confused and simple minded, to you the word government= less freedom to me concentrated power = less freedom. I suppose you think we need even less regulations for the "free market" even after what just happened. fuckin moron.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
The fact that most of those oppressive governments are puppets of private corporations or other governments that are bent to the will of private corporations seems to have escaped you. You also seem to believe a government is a evil corrupt living person who hates freedom and not a system of public ownership, why does this not suprise me? Conservatives are, after all, painfully ignorant, that's the only thing making them conservatives (other than money/greed).
And as for the money thing HELL FUCKING NO a person or private entity should never have more power or influence than the public as a whole are you insane? Why is it conservatives are so concerned with oppressive government but you think its perfectly acceptable for a single individual to have more power than the public. You are just confused and simple minded, to you the word government= less freedom to me concentrated power = less freedom. I suppose you think we need even less regulations for the "free market" even after what just happened. fuckin moron.
Nice insult!:clap:
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
The fact that most of those oppressive governments are puppets of private corporations or other governments that are bent to the will of private corporations seems to have escaped you. You also seem to believe a government is a evil corrupt living person who hates freedom and not a system of public ownership, why does this not suprise me? Conservatives are, after all, painfully ignorant, that's the only thing making them conservatives (other than money/greed).
And as for the money thing HELL FUCKING NO a person or private entity should never have more power or influence than the public as a whole are you insane? Why is it conservatives are so concerned with oppressive government but you think its perfectly acceptable for a single individual to have more power than the public. You are just confused and simple minded, to you the word government= less freedom to me concentrated power = less freedom. I suppose you think we need even less regulations for the "free market" even after what just happened. fuckin moron.
According to you Conservatives are ignorant and greedy. This is the hubris of the elitist Left.

I suppose it never would occur to you that the core issue is limited government.

It's hilarious how Lefties curse the evils of Corporatism when the very core principles of Progressive goals are dependent on it.

I further suppose it never would occur to you that oppressive, concentrated power of the Federal government in league with Corporate interests is not public ownership either. Corporatism is the economic component of Fascism.

Yet come election day, you will scratch your head in wonder and howl in righteous indignation.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
According to you Conservatives are ignorant and greedy. This is the hubris of the elitist Left.

I suppose it never would occur to you that the core issue is limited government.

It's hilarious how Lefties curse the evils of Corporatism when the very core principles of Progressive goals are dependent on it.

I further suppose it never would occur to you that oppressive, concentrated power of the Federal government in league with Corporate interests is not public ownership either. Corporatism is the economic component of Fascism.

Yet come election day, you will scratch your head in wonder and howl in righteous indignation.
There you go again, bringing logical arguments into the discussion! :bigjoint:
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
The fact that most of those oppressive governments are puppets of private corporations or other governments that are bent to the will of private corporations seems to have escaped you. You also seem to believe a government is a evil corrupt living person who hates freedom and not a system of public ownership, why does this not suprise me? Conservatives are, after all, painfully ignorant, that's the only thing making them conservatives (other than money/greed).
And as for the money thing HELL FUCKING NO a person or private entity should never have more power or influence than the public as a whole are you insane? Why is it conservatives are so concerned with oppressive government but you think its perfectly acceptable for a single individual to have more power than the public. You are just confused and simple minded, to you the word government= less freedom to me concentrated power = less freedom. I suppose you think we need even less regulations for the "free market" even after what just happened. fuckin moron.
Hello Angry Liberal. You refer to "what just happened". Please elaborate on "what just happened" , the causes and cures.

Also, I'm curious, enlighten me how more regulation has or will benefit anyone. Doesn't intervention by regulation cause false pricing and harm the consumer, their choices and their ability to decide whether or not to make a purchase, go without or make substitute purchases?
 

medicineman

New Member
Yeah, we certainly need less regulation, especially in the oil drilling category. I believe we've seen what a lack of regulation can do in Corporate America,, Oil drilling, Mine safety, Pharmaceutical, just about every aspect of the corporate structure has been adament about lessening "restrictive" regulations, regulations that impede the bottom line. Does anyone remember Bhopal India? There is a prime example of what unrestricted corporate power exemplifies. I can see the arguement from the corporate side, let us run free, the stockhgolders will appreciate it. So what if a few thousand people lose their health or lives, so what if we pollute an entire gulf, put thousands out of work, destroy fisheries for decades, the bottom line will be healthy. This is the kind of reasoning that will lead to an insurection by the common folk. May I say, it cannot come too soon.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
Yeah, we certainly need less regulation, especially in the oil drilling category. I believe we've seen what a lack of regulation can do in Corporate America,, Oil drilling, Mine safety, Pharmaceutical, just about every aspect of the corporate structure has been adament about lessening "restrictive" regulations, regulations that impede the bottom line. Does anyone remember Bhopal India? There is a prime example of what unrestricted corporate power exemplifies. I can see the arguement from the corporate side, let us run free, the stockhgolders will appreciate it. So what if a few thousand people lose their health or lives, so what if we pollute an entire gulf, put thousands out of work, destroy fisheries for decades, the bottom line will be healthy. This is the kind of reasoning that will lead to an insurection by the common folk. May I say, it cannot come too soon.
More regulation will never fix a damn thing. We have plent of safety regulations in the oil industry, the problem is that the regulators are too cozy with the industry since there is more or less of a revolving door between big oil and MMS. If we don't fix the problem at the core, all the regulations in the world won't change a damn thing. But I forgot, you are way smarter than the rest of us so you already knew this, right?:dunce:
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
You also seem to believe a government is a evil corrupt living person who hates freedom and not a system of public ownership
government is comprised of people, inherently corruptible and invested, as a whole, with far too much power. they aren't subject to the oversight of any marketplace other than the occasional ballot and are cloaked behind the secrecy characteristic of any such massive body. there is no public ownership of the government's power. it is wielded in the name of the public, but it is wielded by the few.

.....a person or private entity should never have more power or influence than the public as a whole are you insane? Why is it conservatives are so concerned with oppressive government but you think its perfectly acceptable for a single individual to have more power than the public.
private enterprise cannot create power greater than that wielded by the people. without the intervention of the state, any power within the private sector is subject to the whims of the marketplace and the people themselves. wealth, even great wealth, is fleeting and must be constantly reinvested to renew itself. those investments are directly in the hands of the people and their marketplace, unlike the much more massive power wielded by government's denizens.

the one individual power which should supercede that of the whole is the power of self-ownership, to do with yourself and what you own as you please. included in this is the power to attempt to influence, without undue coercion, those around you to act for your own benefit. that this power should be regulated to keep wealth from interfering in the rights of others is obvious, but what you and your ilk demand is that this right be curtailed for the benefit of those who fail to succeed.

.....to you the word government= less freedom to me concentrated power = less freedom.
the blindness of today's liberalism is that it sees the power of wealth and screams "unfair!", but it sees the power wielded by the state and falsely believes that it is somehow in the hands of the people. the jealous mob cannot hope to control the powers of law enforcement, the military and the judicial system and it wouldn't know what to do with them if it could. it does, however, covet the power of the almighty dollar and zeros in on those who amass great wealth as the enemies of the myth of equality. when the mob invests in government the power to seize and redistribute that wealth or to regulate the ways in which that wealth may be used, it concentrates the power of the marketplace and the violent powers already in the hands of the state into one unmanageable body. this is the real concentration of power to be feared.

I suppose you think we need even less regulations for the "free market" even after what just happened. fuckin moron.
what is needed is the intelligent application of regulations already in place, not the creation of ever more complicated and onerous restrictions on the private sector. with each failure of government comes a call for tighter restrictions, placing even more power in the hands of the very same body that has proven itself incapable of handling even its current duties. what "fuckin' moron" would propose such a course of action? does this sound like anyone you know?
 
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