This Is Why I Believe.

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
I think humans are not native to earth "]
possible...though I would think if that were the case we would have found some remains of what was used to get us here in the first place, but not telling, and honestly, we'll probably never really know one way or the other...
 

karri0n

Well-Known Member
wait wait wait...i thought things like this was made in 7 days.well they also believed the earth the flat,invisible men,burning bushes,parting of seas,magical places in the clouds....why not...seems they will buy anything. think if you believe all that..might as well believe in zombies,goblins,vampires,werewolves....if you take bullshit package A.,you might has well believe the rest of the myths floating around.
Or sasquatch , or UFO's, or the coelocanth, or giant squid, or gorillas ...oh wait
 

crackerboy

Active Member
Since this thread is titled "This is why I believe" and not lets bash people for what they believe. I will state why I believe.

I grew up in a lower middle class home with two loving parents that did not believe in God. I often heard criticism about God from my parents. So I was not brain washed from an early age as so many claim happens. I was raised in the Florida public school system in the City of Tampa. I was arrested my first time at the age of 9 for burglary and by the time I was 16 I had been convicted of 1 burglary, 2 marijuana possessions, 1 grand theft auto, 1 destruction of private property, 1 misdemeanor battery, 1 felony assault, and 1 misdemeanor assault on a school board member.

I just want to stop here to say that none of this is a reflection on my parents as they did everything in their power to control me. But I did what ever I wanted to do with no fear of any consequences. With that said my neighborhood and school was dead smack in between the projects and the suburbs. Needless to say I moved my family out of that area. I moved out of my parents house at 16 and supported myself by selling weed, coke, acid, rolls, roofies, stolen goods, guns, and what ever I thought I could make a dollar with. Hell I even use to sell direct tv H cards back when you could program them yourself. Needless to say I barely finished high school.

I had a daughter at 17 and a son at 19. The realities of having a family motivated me to go back to school and get my degree. I ended up with a decent Job working in the field that I went to school for. Everything seemed good and I had for the most part separated myself from most of the people I had previously associated with. But that did not last long. After 911 the tech market crashed and massive layoff swept through the industry. I ended up loosing my job and could not find work in that same field for quite some time. This mixed with the inability to let go of the ideals of my childhood led to the demise of my marriage.

So there I was with no Job and no family. I was angry that I had done all the things that society taught me is the way to go and I still ended up out on the streets. So that is what I reverted to. I went back to the only other way of life that I knew. I went back to the only other thing that I was successful at. So there I was back on the streets that I had barely escaped from as a teen. It wasn't long before I was back in trouble with the law and found myself in county jail on several different occasions. One particular visit to the county jail was when my journey to God began. I was in on a simple driving on a suspended license charge which came with the usual 1 week maximum sentence. Normally you would just spend the night and see the judge in the morning and receive a fine and then released.

So right from the get go all the normal processes where thrown out the window. First I did not get to see the judge that first morning. Then I was transferred from the short term intake facility to the maximum security facility for violent felons and people with sentences longer than 6 months but less than a year unless they are still waiting trial. This was very unusual given my misdemeanor driving charge. Then I was placed into a trustee pod (which I was not. only long term inmates could become trustees) I just assumed that the docket was full for court that day and figured I was in for the maximum of one week.

The first day I was in the long term facility I ran into a friend from my old neighborhood. You know how every neighborhood has that one crazy kid that just always got into the most trouble and was always instigating things. Well that was this guy. He was actually friends with my older brother and had always treated me like his younger brother. Well he was in there waiting trial for attempted murder and armed robbery of another drug dealer. He had waived his right to a speedy trial and had been purposely postponing his trial in hopes that the dealer would disappear. Which he did oddly enough. So anyways he introduced me to another guy that I wish I could remember his name. My friend and this other guy began preaching the gospel to me every day. I just blew it off for the first week and wanted nothing to do with it. But then that week turned into two and then three. The whole time being preached to. They basically bribed me with canteen to get me to do Bible studies with them. I finally got bored enough to start studying with them. I then found some of it quite interesting. This was the first time I started really reading the Bible.

Every day I would go ask the guards to tell me what the hell was going on as I had been in for three weeks and still did not have a court date. Even the guards said that this was very odd for the charge that I was booked on. Every morning I would pick a random spot in the Bible to read. Three days in a row I opened the book to a passage that talked about fasting. I mentioned this to my friend and the other guy and they explained how and why I should fast. Needless to say I was very skeptical of this whole fasting thing since it made no sense to me at all. But seems how the food sucked any way and I knew I could trade my food for other crap I decided to give it a try. So the next day I skipped all three meals and spent the whole day in solitude reading the Bible and praying to God. It was not till later that night that I went to the Bible study and during the group prayer I felt this overwhelming feeling come over me. I physically felt the presence of Jesus and the holy spirit coursing through my veins. It traveled from my head down to my toes. I felt a physical transformation. It was like a whole new insight was given to me at that moment. I went to bed that night wondering what that feeling was.

At this point no one had any clue as to why I was still in jail. All the other inmates thought I must have been in for something much more serious and just did not want to tell anyone. But then that same night I was awaken by a guard. He proceeded to tell me that I was being released for time served. Now I still had not gone to court so there is no way for me to have been given time served. It was at that very moment laying on my slab staring up at this guard that I realized the power of God. I understood at that moment what God had done. I was released with no other explanation of what had happened.

From that moment forward it was like there was an unstoppable force compelling me to change my ways. I have since reconciled my marriage with my wife and am once again a father to my children. Shortly after I was released from jail I received a job offer from a company that I had not even applied to. They said my resume was forwarded to them from the collage that I had graduated from as part of a job placement program that I did not sign up for. Keep in mind this was almost 2 years after I had graduated. That company was then bought out by a company based out of Colorado and they paid for me to move up. Every since that final day in county jail the Bible has been speaking to me and instructing me on how and where I need to improve on my life. It has changed everything that I ever perceived as reality. I can now see a new reality, a reality that completely contradicts what society teaches.

Before I was saved it was every man for himself and anyone who got in my way was dealt with swiftly and cruelly. Now that I have been saved its more like how can I serve and help. Don't get me wrong I still struggle with the temptations of every day life. I am not perfect and still sin on a daily bases. But there is no logic to what has happened to me. The only answer is that I was saved by Gods grace alone. And without God I surely would have ended up with my friend awaiting trial for some violent crime.

I am sure many will criticize me for this post but I felt compelled to share. I just hope that this post can serve as an example of Gods wondrous works and glory. If any other Christians have a story than I would encourage you to please share. Share your story and possibly show others God's true works of love and compassion towards those who do not deserve it.
 

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
ummm....can you some that up? I dunno, but thats borderline thread jacking. Not insulting your views, merely suggesting that perhaps you should start a new thread for sharing what are known in the christian community as testimonies...granted, count on there being a troll, but lets face it, you knew that shit was going to happen ;)
 

crackerboy

Active Member
ummm....can you some that up? I dunno, but thats borderline thread jacking. Not insulting your views, merely suggesting that perhaps you should start a new thread for sharing what are known in the christian community as testimonies...granted, count on there being a troll, but lets face it, you knew that shit was going to happen ;)

I felt that the original poster wanted to share why they believe. Not to debate religion. Which I will admit that I was one of the main people that instigated some of this debate. You are probably correct though. I should have started a new thread for this and I apologize if this is viewed as thread jacking. And yes as I stated in my post I fully expect criticism on this subject as is the case on every thread I have read on this site referring to God.
 

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
I felt that the original poster wanted to share why they believe. Not to debate religion. Which I will admit that I was one of the main people that instigated some of this debate. You are probably correct though. I should have started a new thread for this and I apologize if this is viewed as thread jacking. And yes as I stated in my post I fully expect criticism on this subject as is the case on every thread I have read on this site referring to God.
†L† yea, I've noticed. A large percentage of our community seem to not just be atheist, but straight up anti-religion. Its amazing how closed minded the self proclaimed "logical" tend to be...
 

djruiner

Well-Known Member
agreed with the umm...a few comments ago damn you fuckers post too fast..ha...that sounded like a pitch to me.and it sounds like about every other story from people that have spent time in prison...whats your choices...least he didnt become a body building prick...or muslim...what else can you shoot for.now what about those that have had the same lifestyle..prison,drugs,bad childhood...and so on that do the same things...get out of prison..make a life for themselves...and lead a completely happy life..without finding god?its 50/50....you cant give credit to someone or something that you have no idea if it even had involvement for the change in situation.as like the OP was talking about as it comes to emotions..i think people that "feel" gods presence are having nothing more than a feeling...emotion...that god is there watching over them.i was raised a little different...never had anyone in my family that spoke of church..god..religion..any of that.ive never been to jail..nor even detained.i have a very happy life,comfortable,fulfilling..and guess what..i did all this without getting up early on sunday,dressing up to be filled in a hot ass church to give them money so the preacher can make his hummer note.so do you think maybe that god had nothing to do with your success?do you not think that you have the ability inside you to have this success?what about those that dont go to church,dont worship the lord..and lead a very happy and civil life?and what about those that do hand their lives over to the lord,dont make it,live in a box,cant get a meal without begging for it...where is the lord for them.they go to church..lead a good life..but still get the shitty end of the deal.you know why...50/50...some just use the bible as a crutch...they cant figure life out on their own..so they think the lord will lead them the way...even though some get led off a cliff
 

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
agreed with the umm...a few comments ago damn you fuckers post too fast..ha...that sounded like a pitch to me.and it sounds like about every other story from people that have spent time in prison...whats your choices...least he didnt become a body building prick...or muslim...what else can you shoot for.now what about those that have had the same lifestyle..prison,drugs,bad childhood...and so on that do the same things...get out of prison..make a life for themselves...and lead a completely happy life..without finding god?its 50/50....you cant give credit to someone or something that you have no idea if it even had involvement for the change in situation.as like the OP was talking about as it comes to emotions..i think people that "feel" gods presence are having nothing more than a feeling...emotion...that god is there watching over them.i was raised a little different...never had anyone in my family that spoke of church..god..religion..any of that.ive never been to jail..nor even detained.i have a very happy life,comfortable,fulfilling..and guess what..i did all this without getting up early on sunday,dressing up to be filled in a hot ass church to give them money so the preacher can make his hummer note.so do you think maybe that god had nothing to do with your success?do you not think that you have the ability inside you to have this success?what about those that dont go to church,dont worship the lord..and lead a very happy and civil life?and what about those that do hand their lives over to the lord,dont make it,live in a box,cant get a meal without begging for it...where is the lord for them.they go to church..lead a good life..but still get the shitty end of the deal.you know why...50/50...some just use the bible as a crutch...they cant figure life out on their own..so they think the lord will lead them the way...even though some get led off a cliff
I have conflicting views on god/religion. I started studying the occult at age 6 while being raised catholic (great stuff, being taught whats considered an abomination to the other group I'm being taught by) I know they're are forces we can't explain that we use in casting, but I firmly believe that a scientific principal has to be behind them that we don't understand, or they wouldn't work. I have to agree that I've seen many a good people, god fearing people, that followed all his laws find nothing but misery in this world. I KNOW you don't get punished at least on this earth for disregarding god.

On another note, ya'll try this one on...
They're is a theory that a thought can take on form, as such, every god that has ever believed to have existed has indeed, and was created by the believers that prayed to them...
 

djruiner

Well-Known Member
I felt that the original poster wanted to share why they believe. Not to debate religion. Which I will admit that I was one of the main people that instigated some of this debate. You are probably correct though. I should have started a new thread for this and I apologize if this is viewed as thread jacking. And yes as I stated in my post I fully expect criticism on this subject as is the case on every thread I have read on this site referring to God.
no worries...threads seem to go off track at times..and it falls into line with whats being talked about..now had you asked if your plants a female and posted pics..that would have been the wrong thread.and any thread about religion will have results like this...its nothing new.people have been debating religion for hundreds of years.its about keeping it civil and not instantly ignoring whats said...like i said before...i really tried as it comes to being religious..and in no way did it work for me....i know before going in i was putting up somewhat of a wall...but after many years i made the choice to not choose organized religion...i didnt feel it in my heart and wasnt going to keep searching for something...that for me...wasnt there.discussions like this need to happen...it might change the ideas of someone...either which way they choose to take...everyone should have all the evidence and theories in front of them...to make the choice on their own.
 

crackerboy

Active Member
agreed with the umm...a few comments ago damn you fuckers post too fast..ha...that sounded like a pitch to me.and it sounds like about every other story from people that have spent time in prison...whats your choices...least he didnt become a body building prick...or muslim...what else can you shoot for.now what about those that have had the same lifestyle..prison,drugs,bad childhood...and so on that do the same things...get out of prison..make a life for themselves...and lead a completely happy life..without finding god?its 50/50....you cant give credit to someone or something that you have no idea if it even had involvement for the change in situation.as like the OP was talking about as it comes to emotions..i think people that "feel" gods presence are having nothing more than a feeling...emotion...that god is there watching over them.i was raised a little different...never had anyone in my family that spoke of church..god..religion..any of that.ive never been to jail..nor even detained.i have a very happy life,comfortable,fulfilling..and guess what..i did all this without getting up early on sunday,dressing up to be filled in a hot ass church to give them money so the preacher can make his hummer note.so do you think maybe that god had nothing to do with your success?do you not think that you have the ability inside you to have this success?what about those that dont go to church,dont worship the lord..and lead a very happy and civil life?and what about those that do hand their lives over to the lord,dont make it,live in a box,cant get a meal without begging for it...where is the lord for them.they go to church..lead a good life..but still get the shitty end of the deal.you know why...50/50...some just use the bible as a crutch...they cant figure life out on their own..so they think the lord will lead them the way...even though some get led off a cliff
Yeah well you can call it whatever you want man. I know what I know and all your reasoning can never explain it or force me to change my mind. God bless brother and I hope that one day you can experience the presence of God.
 

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
Yeah well you can call it whatever you want man. I know what I know and all your reasoning can never explain it or force me to change my mind. God bless brother and I hope that one day you can experience the presence of God.
Its my understanding ruiner is a chick...not to mention thats the most open minded about the matter I've ever seen her, but whatever...
 

djruiner

Well-Known Member
Yeah well you can call it whatever you want man. I know what I know and all your reasoning can never explain it or force me to change my mind. God bless brother and I hope that one day you can experience the presence of God.
not trying to change your mind...thats my whole point.people are free to choose how they live their life.im not against religion..it has many good things about it...and many bad.it just wasnt for me.i just think as you have the right to tell everyone why you do believe...that i have the right to say why i dont believe.people that dont worship get more flack over it then those that do...all i ever hear is im going to hell,im a sinner,i need to be saved....seems like a lot of negative shit to me.yet is blasphemy for me to speak against it...its too close minded and one sided for me
 

djruiner

Well-Known Member
Its my understanding ruiner is a chick...not to mention thats the most open minded about the matter I've ever seen her, but whatever...
where the hell did you get that?*checks between legs*..yeah thats a dick...you might be thinking of The Ruiner thats on here...ive gone by dj ruiner since i started djing on air...a good 6 years ago...most call me dj..thats just my job...ruiners my name...but not the ruiner...im not retarded enough to refer to myself in the 3rd person i guess
 

Drgreenz

Well-Known Member
I gotta say i don't think what crackerboy did came close to threadjacking at all, in fact i think that is exactly what this thread was intended for. Why i believe and he then said "what do you think? give me your criticisms and thoughts. so the author left it open for these branches to spread out, which is a good thing in my opinion. One thing i think we have to keep in mind as we discuss religious views though is the fact that reality is mearely our illusion of the world and that while we may hold certain beliefs, those beliefs may very well be really really wrong, no matter which side we fall on.

with that, crackerboy, just for you, this is why i believe. Note, i was raised in a wealthy family by an athiest mother and a zen bhudist father, i have studied extensively every major world religion, ive read the torah, bible, q'ran, i'ching, you name it. And really had no personal beliefs.
in the summer of 2003 i was 18, i got sick with a neurological disease called GBS. it is a paralysing sickness. while in the ICU i eventually got to where i was completely paralyzed from the neck down. the sickness had affected my heart and my lung function had dropped to about 50% of normal function. The doctors ordered that the next morning i be intebated and placed on a ventilator. That night while i was layin there i prayed for the first real time in my life, not to get better, or to walk again but i asked God to simply end this bullshit, and that i don't want to live like this anymore.
That nite i flatlined twice, i was legally dead two times and they were able to resuscitate me. The next morning when they tried to put in the trach and vent me i was pushing thier arms away(still completely out of it from drugs and endorphines and wutnot) The doctors still have no explenation as to why or how i had what happened to me happen. But all i know is while i may have alot of jacked up neurological problems right now, i can walk around.
 

crackerboy

Active Member
not trying to change your mind...thats my whole point.people are free to choose how they live their life.im not against religion..it has many good things about it...and many bad.it just wasnt for me.i just think as you have the right to tell everyone why you do believe...that i have the right to say why i dont believe.people that dont worship get more flack over it then those that do...all i ever hear is im going to hell,im a sinner,i need to be saved....seems like a lot of negative shit to me.yet is blasphemy for me to speak against it...its too close minded and one sided for me

Believe me I completely understand. I used to feel the same way. I hope that I have not at any point come across like one of these people. Although I have been known to snap back at people. But that's my old ways surfacing. I may be a Christian but I am also an American. Which means I fully believe in the freedom of speech. As you can probably tell from my prior post I kind of enjoy the debate. It is this freedom that has made this the greatest country on earth regardless of all the other flaws.
 

crackerboy

Active Member
I gotta say i don't think what crackerboy did came close to threadjacking at all, in fact i think that is exactly what this thread was intended for. Why i believe and he then said "what do you think? give me your criticisms and thoughts. so the author left it open for these branches to spread out, which is a good thing in my opinion. One thing i think we have to keep in mind as we discuss religious views though is the fact that reality is mearely our illusion of the world and that while we may hold certain beliefs, those beliefs may very well be really really wrong, no matter which side we fall on.

with that, crackerboy, just for you, this is why i believe. Note, i was raised in a wealthy family by an athiest mother and a zen bhudist father, i have studied extensively every major world religion, ive read the torah, bible, q'ran, i'ching, you name it. And really had no personal beliefs.
in the summer of 2003 i was 18, i got sick with a neurological disease called GBS. it is a paralysing sickness. while in the ICU i eventually got to where i was completely paralyzed from the neck down. the sickness had affected my heart and my lung function had dropped to about 50% of normal function. The doctors ordered that the next morning i be intebated and placed on a ventilator. That night while i was layin there i prayed for the first real time in my life, not to get better, or to walk again but i asked God to simply end this bullshit, and that i don't want to live like this anymore.
That nite i flatlined twice, i was legally dead two times and they were able to resuscitate me. The next morning when they tried to put in the trach and vent me i was pushing thier arms away(still completely out of it from drugs and endorphines and wutnot) The doctors still have no explenation as to why or how i had what happened to me happen. But all i know is while i may have alot of jacked up neurological problems right now, i can walk around.

It's amazing how one moment you can be on the edge of death and the next your body had defied what the doctors probably considered impossible. Quick question, can you recall any feelings or dreams that may have occurred during those flat lines?
 

kanabis

Well-Known Member
If atoms can be influenced by magnetic fields, heat, cold, etc. It is fairly acceptable they do affect us.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Never once did I claim the bible is objectively true.
Never once did I claim you claimed it was! Imagine that.

OK. Your biggest problem is with Christianity because it affects you. That's fine and good, except that for most of this thread you've been speaking directly to me, and every one of your points have been about Christianity. I never once stated Christianity is the right way, and I've denounced the Christian dogma repeatedly. You know my stance on fundamentalism yet you continue to bring up the same points.
Like I said before, you've been taking the position of defending Christianity against the points I and MP have been making against it.

Please elaborate on how teaching a child meditation or mythology cause science and education to leave a child's mind. Last I knew, they have college courses for mythology, and you can acquire a doctorate in it. Or is this not "true" education?


"meditation or mythology" - that's what you think "teaching your kid your religion" means?

Well fuck, there's the problem! There's absolutely nothing wrong with teaching a child meditation or mythology, which teaching any religion isn't.

When you tell a kid something in such absolute terms, ie. words like "eternity", "forever", etc. they take it as fact, they're not old enough to discern for themselves the difference between simple mythology and reality, especially if it's coming from a figure of authority who commands trust already, like a parent.

This is the result of tyranny, not spirituality.


Human beings would not be able to be led to their deaths if they didn't believe the in the ridiculous things their religion promises them.

When was the last time you saw an atheist suicide bomber? :idea::idea::idea:

It was never meant to be taken literally


Which parts are and which parts aren't? How do you know? Why do so many Christians disagree about this simple question? Most of the Christians I know would say the Bible is inspired by the word of God and written by man, so it would contain errors. So how does someone figure out what the errors are and what the inspired from God parts are?

I know. We covered that.


And I guess it went completely over your head or you're just too lame to admit you're wrong about that point you tried to make.

You said as an atheist I'd never be interested in someone devoutly religious. The point was proved wrong the moment you said it, as I explained, and after more thought, it was more like 1/3 because I was atheist, the other 2/3's were because I smoke weed and because she's moving away for college.

But you proved yourself to be an asshole with that attempt anyway, so moving on, again... ;)

In much the same way that you still are claiming that I'm Christian and that there are only Christians and Atheists in this thread.


Dude, at this point, I don't even think you know what you are... What's the name of the thread again... Oh yeah "this is why I believe...", so, why do you believe?

I suspect you haven't put it out there yet because you know we'd tear it to pieces. Prove me wrong.

Also, point out anyone in the thread whose not an atheist or a Christian. Anyone whose actually stated clearly what they believe that is.

What, exactly, is it that you think I don't understand?
We don't have time for that...

I'm serious on this, please elaborate.
...dude, seriously, there's just not enough time, I'm sorry...

I was raised as an atheist; an ACTUAL atheist, not an agnostic.
ROFL @ that! How is one "raised atheist"? "Henry!! Come in here!" "yeah mom..?" "You better not be believing in God in there!!" "I'm not mom..." "cuz Goddamnit you know you were raised ATHEIST!!"..

Give me a break. You aren't "raised atheist". You decide for yourself when you think past the bullshit that organized religion is. The entire concept of God and just about everything that goes along with is is simply impossible in logistical terms. If your God doesn't think in logistical terms, then he's not omnipotent. If he's not omnipotent, then he's not God.

It wasn't until I truly looked objectively at the evidence and dropped my pre-conceived notions and arrogance that I started to really see the world for what it is.
Why are you holding out? Provide me with the evidence you were shown that made you change your mind.

Being a skeptic is only halfway following logic. There is plenty of evidence out there for just how important spirituality is to the human experience, and ignoring it and counting only on something that can be explained with math and statistics is equally as arrogant and ignorant as blindly following scripture.
That sounds like something you would hear George Bush say, holy shit..

"you have to ask questions and be skeptical, but you can't trust the answers to the questions" .. What??

You state shit like this and don't even realize the clear benefit the scientific method provides. That's why it's there. It takes the human error out of the equation.

Science win. Religion fail.

Science - test, observe, measure, track, record, test again, compare results, refine conclusions, understand the universe a little bit better

Religion - trust, believe, have faith, pray, pay, ask forgiveness

You've never been exposed to anything truly spiritual or had a spiritual experience, and it's apparent that the reason is that the only spiritual model you've ever seen is Christianity.
Wrong. The reason is because I know what you people would consider a "religious experience" isn't anything more than simple explainable bodily functions. It's really that fuckin' simple man, and it's amazing to me you can't see that.

See, what happens when I get a little tingle downstairs... I don't say "oh shit, was that Jesus touching my nuts?!"... I realize "hey, I GET tingles down there, I'm a biological creature with billions of moving parts, tingles are bound to happen...", and that's that.

I don't sit there and ponder for hours on end asking myself "what was that?!". I'm educated enough to realize that attributing every little thing to a god would be, frankly, retarded, not to mention inconsistent, which is another word the Christian "word of the day" calender makers should add to the list...

Bullshit. If this were really your belief you wouldn't be arguing with me in the first place. You want everyone else to be an atheist just like the Christian church wants everyone to be Christian.
Nope, wrong again, you must love being wrong, damn...

I know it's not my right to make anyone believe anything, not to mention, not my fucking job. I think it is the individuals obligation and responsibility to educate themselves enough to realize this shit is the literal ball and chain around the ankle of humanities 21st century body. It's like a crackhead cousin who we love so much we can't send them to rehab. They drain all our resources and give us no respect, but fuck, we love the guy! And all you passive believers are the enablers. The people who see nothing wrong with what organized religion has done to our species. The people who think standing up for equal rights and defending science is somehow "atheist fundamentalism" or "Christian oppression". ROFL!

As a Christian, you shall have no other gods before Him. If you aren't Christian, you don't need to worry about that. Not every sect of Christianity treats non-christians as the enemy, and you damn well know it. I'll even point out that there are some sects of Christianity that outright do *not* take that particular stance. The Unity Church is a pretty good example. And once again you say "all religions" when you mean "christianity". Fuck off with that.
If you're a Christian or a Jew the 10 commandments apply to you. And I'm pretty sure Obama got the Christian right's vote, I mean, even though they think he's a Muslim, right...

I'll say it again, and you can deny deny deny till the end of the Earth, but I stand by this, tolerance for other religions aren't present in any of them. The 10 commandments attest to that with Christianity and Judaism, and I'm pretty sure Islam explains that point pretty clearly.

It is also obvious why. Because other religions are a threat. Proponents of Christianity didn't want anything else to compete with it, just like Muslims don't want anything to compete with Islam. It's exactly the same.


Without referring to the obvious human rights issues and disinformation of the three major religions, give me some valid reasons why teaching people about spirituality, meditation, prayer, and gleaning life lessons from religious mythology is something negative and something to be resisted and fought against.
You can teach someone every single lesson religion provides without telling them they're going to be condemned to an eternity of torment if they don't play by the rules. When people do things for the wrong reasons they don't learn anything about making the right choices. We have the wealthiest country in human history, but are plagued by problems organized religion provides. It poisons almost every single issue we face in one way or another. This is why I take such a harsh stance against it, because it's literally everywhere, causing or perpetuating every single problem out there. You name it, I'll show you how.

I was arrested my first time at the age of 9 for burglary and by the time I was 16 I had been convicted of 1 burglary, 2 marijuana possessions, 1 grand theft auto, 1 destruction of private property, 1 misdemeanor battery, 1 felony assault, and 1 misdemeanor assault on a school board member.

I just want to stop here to say that none of this is a reflection on my parents as they did everything in their power to control me. But I did what ever I wanted to do with no fear of any consequences.
crackerboy, first thanks for sharing the story. Gave insight into your reasons, which is the point of the thread. I think you're being honest about it and actually believe everything that happened to you the way it did.

With that said, my assessment of your post is probably going to offend you, I thought about it and there doesn't seem to be a way around it, so I hope you don't take it personally, because that's not how it is at all, I hope you understand that.

It sounds like you had a pretty laid back childhood with relatively lax parents who didn't hit the discipline button very much, which is why I think you didn't develop any real sense of right and wrong early on and also simply dismissed the entire aspect of consequences until after you did whatever you wanted to do and ended up facing them.

Your tale of finding Jesus in jail isn't uncommon at all. And everything you said, in my mind, can simply be marked up as explainable coincidence. At the time you were in a state of mind, as you were being given Bible readings and studying daily, to want to believe this stuff was real. I mean think about it, what actual evidence do you have? Does anyone ever have? Why is it always some kind of a feeling or emotion? Why not something tangible, something measurable, observable?

I know why. I've thought about why. There is only one answer why. It is because if there was something to measure, the measurement would come out wrong. If there was something to observe, we'd observe it differently. As we have done, as we DO do all the time.


Why are some people so susceptible to God but others not at all?
 

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
Never once did I claim you claimed it was! Imagine that.


Like I said before, you've been taking the position of defending Christianity against the points I and MP have been making against it.



"meditation or mythology" - that's what you think "teaching your kid your religion" means?

Well fuck, there's the problem! There's absolutely nothing wrong with teaching a child meditation or mythology, which teaching any religion isn't.

When you tell a kid something in such absolute terms, ie. words like "eternity", "forever", etc. they take it as fact, they're not old enough to discern for themselves the difference between simple mythology and reality, especially if it's coming from a figure of authority who commands trust already, like a parent.

[/COLOR][/COLOR]

Human beings would not be able to be led to their deaths if they didn't believe the in the ridiculous things their religion promises them.

When was the last time you saw an atheist suicide bomber? :idea::idea::idea:

[/COLOR][/COLOR]

Which parts are and which parts aren't? How do you know? Why do so many Christians disagree about this simple question? Most of the Christians I know would say the Bible is inspired by the word of God and written by man, so it would contain errors. So how does someone figure out what the errors are and what the inspired from God parts are?

[/COLOR][/COLOR]

And I guess it went completely over your head or you're just too lame to admit you're wrong about that point you tried to make.

You said as an atheist I'd never be interested in someone devoutly religious. The point was proved wrong the moment you said it, as I explained, and after more thought, it was more like 1/3 because I was atheist, the other 2/3's were because I smoke weed and because she's moving away for college.

But you proved yourself to be an asshole with that attempt anyway, so moving on, again... ;)

[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]

Dude, at this point, I don't even think you know what you are... What's the name of the thread again... Oh yeah "this is why I believe...", so, why do you believe?

I suspect you haven't put it out there yet because you know we'd tear it to pieces. Prove me wrong.

Also, point out anyone in the thread whose not an atheist or a Christian. Anyone whose actually stated clearly what they believe that is.
[/COLOR]


We don't have time for that...



...dude, seriously, there's just not enough time, I'm sorry...



ROFL @ that! How is one "raised atheist"? "Henry!! Come in here!" "yeah mom..?" "You better not be believing in God in there!!" "I'm not mom..." "cuz Goddamnit you know you were raised ATHEIST!!"..

Give me a break. You aren't "raised atheist". You decide for yourself when you think past the bullshit that organized religion is. The entire concept of God and just about everything that goes along with is is simply impossible in logistical terms. If your God doesn't think in logistical terms, then he's not omnipotent. If he's not omnipotent, then he's not God.



Why are you holding out? Provide me with the evidence you were shown that made you change your mind.



That sounds like something you would hear George Bush say, holy shit..

"you have to ask questions and be skeptical, but you can't trust the answers to the questions" .. What??

You state shit like this and don't even realize the clear benefit the scientific method provides. That's why it's there. It takes the human error out of the equation.

Science win. Religion fail.

Science - test, observe, measure, track, record, test again, compare results, refine conclusions, understand the universe a little bit better

Religion - trust, believe, have faith, pray, pay, ask forgiveness



Wrong. The reason is because I know what you people would consider a "religious experience" isn't anything more than simple explainable bodily functions. It's really that fuckin' simple man, and it's amazing to me you can't see that.

See, what happens when I get a little tingle downstairs... I don't say "oh shit, was that Jesus touching my nuts?!"... I realize "hey, I GET tingles down there, I'm a biological creature with billions of moving parts, tingles are bound to happen...", and that's that.

I don't sit there and ponder for hours on end asking myself "what was that?!". I'm educated enough to realize that attributing every little thing to a god would be, frankly, retarded, not to mention inconsistent, which is another word the Christian "word of the day" calender makers should add to the list...



Nope, wrong again, you must love being wrong, damn...

I know it's not my right to make anyone believe anything, not to mention, not my fucking job. I think it is the individuals obligation and responsibility to educate themselves enough to realize this shit is the literal ball and chain around the weight of humanities 21st century body. It's like a crackhead cousin who we love so much we can't send them to rehab. They drain all our resources and give us no respect, but fuck, we love the guy! And all you passive believers are the enablers. The people who see nothing wrong with what organized religion has done to our species. The people who think standing up for equal rights and defending science is somehow "atheist fundamentalism" or "Christian oppression". ROFL!



If you're a Christian or a Jew the 10 commandments apply to you. And I'm pretty sure Obama got the Christian right's vote, I mean, even though they think he's a Muslim, right...

I'll say it again, and you can deny deny deny till the end of the Earth, but I stand by this, tolerance for other religions aren't present in any of them. The 10 commandments attest to that with Christianity and Judaism, and I'm pretty sure Islam explains that point pretty clearly.

It is also obvious why. Because other religions are a threat. Proponents of Christianity didn't want anything else to compete with it, just like Muslims don't want anything to compete with Islam. It's exactly the same.




You can teach someone every single lesson religion provides without telling them they're going to be condemned to an eternity of torment if they don't play by the rules. When people do things for the wrong reasons they don't learn anything about making the right choices. We have the wealthiest country in human history, but are plagued by problems organized religion provides. It poisons almost every single issue we face in one way or another. This is why I take such a harsh stance against it, because it's literally everywhere, causing or perpetuating every single problem out there. You name it, I'll show you how.



crackerboy, first thanks for sharing the story. Gave insight into your reasons, which is the point of the thread. I think you're being honest about it and actually believe everything that happened to you the way it did.

With that said, my assessment of your post is probably going to offend you, I thought about it and there doesn't seem to be a way around it, so I hope you don't take it personally, because that's not how it is at all, I hope you understand that.

It sounds like you had a pretty laid back childhood with relatively lax parents who didn't hit the discipline button very much, which is why I think you didn't develop any real sense of right and wrong early on and also simply dismissed the entire aspect of consequences until after you did whatever you wanted to do and ended up facing them.

Your tale of finding Jesus in jail isn't uncommon at all. And everything you said, in my mind, can simply be marked up as explainable coincidence. At the time you were in a state of mind, as you were being given Bible readings and studying daily, to want to believe this stuff was real. I mean think about it, what actual evidence do you have? Does anyone ever have? Why is it always some kind of a feeling or emotion? Why not something tangible, something measurable, observable?

I know why. I've thought about why. There is only one answer why. It is because if there was something to measure, the measurement would come out wrong. If there was something to observe, we'd observe it differently. As we have done, as we DO do all the time.


Why are some people so susceptible to God but others not at all?
OH, COME ON!!! REALLY?! Do you realize we are mostly stoners here? how the hell are you going to make a post that big?!! and in some funky color!! goddammit, it better be damn interesting!!! I won't know till tomorrow, I'll be damned if i'm killing my eyes with that color for that long...hell, I'm probably not included in the replies any damn ways... ;)
wait, all those are a reply to ONE person?!! SON OF A BITCH!! HELL NO I'M NOT READING THAT!! Karrion, give us a summary in 3 sentences or less...no run ons dammit.. :p
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
OH, COME ON!!! REALLY?! Do you realize we are mostly stoners here? how the hell are you going to make a post that big?!! and in some funky color!! goddammit, it better be damn interesting!!! I won't know till tomorrow, I'll be damned if i'm killing my eyes with that color for that long...hell, I'm probably not included in the replies any damn ways... ;)
wait, all those are a reply to ONE person?!! SON OF A BITCH!! HELL NO I'M NOT READING THAT!! Karrion, give us a summary in 3 sentences or less...no run ons dammit.. :p
Greens easy on the eyes man, that's why I use it.

I multi quote so people know exactly what I'm talking about or referencing, trust me it makes it a lot easier that way.


 
Top