A few Ideas to cure our woes:
- Thread starter medicineman
- Start date
He's not the only one. Not by a long shot. That, unfortunately, is the rub.
Local control is a much better and cost effective answer, than the one size fit all federal control.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Agreed. The most "local" control there is being individual peaceful self ownership, which I fully endorse.
medicineman
New Member
Here again is the mantra of the haves. Take a kid in the ghetto, do you think he is thrilled with his individual peaceful ownership, and I might ask ownership of what. It is easy to sit back and say, "just leave me alone" when you have all you need. When you start with such a burden as poor people start with, the ownership question must come up as, of what.
Interesting ideas I see reading through the conversation here. You know what they say about opinions, but IMO the biggest problem facing us here in the United States (biggest problem internally at least) is the illusion of democracy that we operate under. How can we call ourselves a democracy when we are, in fact, dominated by a dictatorship just 2 parties? The Democratic party and the Republican party are nearly identical when one really looks at it - for example, we debate cutting taxes vs raising taxes, but the fundamental question of if we should have taxes (and the system by which we should collect them) remains the same. Yet, for longer than any of us can remember, we have blindly voted these two same parties in. Over and over.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Being left alone, works best if the reciprocal behavior of "leaving others alone" is employed. You seem to focus on "haves" as always being evil. Having things is not inherently evil, preventing others from having opportunity or taking something that doesn't belong to you is.
I'll agree with your sentiment there are many people that have unfortunate circumstances. To correct that by taking from another person isn't my solution though.
How can a person own themself and rely on taking from others to improve their situation? That defy's the reciprocity mentioned above.
I would be thrilled to truly own myself, none of us do, rich, poor doesn't matter, none of us own ourselves as completely as we should. If you feel bad about kids in the ghetto, helping them is a good thing...so what are you personally doing to provide help?
laughingduck
Well-Known Member
Med, i will go along with most of it, but not the class warfare crap you spew. You are suggesting i pay even more in to a system that i know i will never see a dime from, come on.
Here' my plan to solve the deficit problem, what can you guys cook up yourself?
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html?choices=vctv7435
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html?choices=vctv7435
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Hello TimD420, welcome to this forum. I'll agree with you both parties are similar in that they want to take what is rightfully yours to further their agendas.
As far as being a democracy, I don't think that was part of the original formula for governance. It was supposed to be
a Constitutional Republic to protect individual rights FROM the failures of pure Democracy, where 2 wolves could decide to have the sheep for supper. I'll agree with you again, there are many fundamental questions that get obfuscated by the illusion of "choice" offered by the political process, taxes being a good example. Picking your poison, is not much of a choice, yet the present system persists because most people suffer from the illusion that self governance could never work. Who sells that illusion the hardest? Why government of course. Go figure.
And to go further, Our government was intended to be the one to PROTECT and DEFEND our rights , now the tables have turned long ago and it is the Government who we have to protect and defend our rights from. The rule of Law is the way of a republic, but now the rich and elite are immune from prosecution because they are too big to fail. As long as they stay solvent to keep providing huge campaign donations the politicians will continue letting them rape us.
Hi Rob, and thanks.
You are right - we were never designed to be a pure democracy (rather impractical for more than a city-state), rather a representative republic which was to be governed by the Constitution. The concept was simple enough, but we see that as the US evolved politically, brief alliances between like-minded men in power turned into full-fledged political parties which now more or less decide who the American public gets to "vote" for. Pick your poison indeed.
This mirage is sold by the government... but pushed by the media. The 2008 election is a recent example, where the media largely ignored viable candidates like Ron Paul, turning him into a long-shot by default. On the flip side, the media built up Obama to the point where he was able to pull off the unlikely upset over Hillary. I'm not sure if that shows more of biased reporting or that the American public is too lazy/ignorant to research for themselves. Either way, it's definitely a problem.
medicineman
New Member
The truth is that it really is class warfare. Always has been since the dawn of man. The cave men always wanted the prettiest women, the most food etc. It's the old Biggest dick thingy or the football mentality. IE He whom dies with the most toys wins. Untill "man" comes to term with humanity, there is no cure, dems or repukes, 2 sides of the same coin. "Man" is an inherently greedy prick, always has been and unless there is something like Divine intervention, always will be. We are only one gene away from apes, sometimes I believe we are closer than that. To suggest that getting rid of government or societal rules would make things just Hunky dory, is especially Naive. It is basically those rules that provide cover for the rich pricks. Society dictates that money is the mark of success, and the more one has, the more free one is. Take the law: Law in this country (Probably Most countries) is the best that money can buy, (O.J. Simpson comes to mind). Ther richest/whitest criminals do the least time for similar crimes, MONEY! So get over the class warfare is crap bullshit, it is class warfare. It is just that if one has money, the view from the top is always better. When the old addage, "Shit always runs downhill" is put to the test, one can mostly find rich people living on the hills, usually the richest on top, Before sewer systems, the rich just let their sewage run down the hill. It was always and still is best to live further up the hill. If the world was one big hill, (Probably is), I would be living very close to the top, you know, indoor plumbing and all that entails. I figure on a world scale, I'm in the top 1%, in Amerika, I'm in the bottom 50%, No complaints here, I have plenty of food, I can afford my bills, drive a fairly new truck, Have heat in the winter and AC in the summer, can afford vacations, cruises etc, I'm shittin in tall cotton, But that doesn't change a goddamn thing, it is still class warfare. I'm just not that into war. I use words, not guns, bang bang.
laughingduck
Well-Known Member
My utopia is true equality, not the liberal definition that enslaves people, but the equality that was the vision of our founders. The goverment should not be robbing us every year of the money that we bust our ass for. Everyone should pay the same, no deductions, just the same exact rate. Its the truly fair thing, no prefrence to anyone. The only people that this class warfare is helping is the people that instigate it, makes them wealthy.
medicineman
New Member
Bullshit! It has been class warefare against the middle, the working class and the poor since this bullshit started. Who do you think the founding fathers were? They were the upper class of their times. They owned the businesses, the banks, the large farms, they were the elites. What keeps this insanity going is the wannabees, those idiots that ascribe to be rich, so rich that they will have to worry about tax cuts to billionaires, The proverbial American dream. Trouble is, just like in the beginning, the only ones likely to get that rich is the offspring of the already rich. Many of the founding fathers came to the new world with grants from Companies in England with directions to get a strong foothold in this world, monopolize, grab power, and bamboozel the common people into drinking the tea, the falicy of freedom. Meanwhile, by slipping the bonds of the english government/Kingdom, they could keep all the tax money for themselves. Kind of like the tea party activists want today. They then realized that this country needed a government that they could control, and lo and behold, those same founders started and ran the US government, monopolizing all the money and power, building the corporations, modernizing the corporate farms, grabbing power, and bamboozeling the people. With the advent of modern technology, mostly media, starting with Radio and continuing with TV, they have survived as the elites and held power and money for 2+ centuries. It is the wannabees that allow this to continiue. If the common folk were to realize the truth, these assholes would be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail, visualize that. It is the same breed of greedy assholes that run this country now, as started it. Agreed that they had some pretty powerful rhetoric that they put on paper, but lets face it, "they" never intended to abide by it, it was all show for the people, as they went about business as usual.
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
So...since I always just say whatever whenever and this thread seemed an appropriate place for it I figured I would go ahead and spill it.
I was thinking of a ways that this country could begin to prepare itself for its new place in the world hierarchy...these are just rough ideas and probably will never happen but they make sense to me...
1. Legalization and full government endorsement and support of the legalization of cannabis and cannabis hemp for medical, recreational, and industrial purposes.
2. Government sponsored BACK TO THE LAND movements supporting the production of hemp as an emerging staple crop for food, medicine, and industrial purposes.
Just some ideas,.
I was thinking of a ways that this country could begin to prepare itself for its new place in the world hierarchy...these are just rough ideas and probably will never happen but they make sense to me...
1. Legalization and full government endorsement and support of the legalization of cannabis and cannabis hemp for medical, recreational, and industrial purposes.
2. Government sponsored BACK TO THE LAND movements supporting the production of hemp as an emerging staple crop for food, medicine, and industrial purposes.
Just some ideas,.
laughingduck
Well-Known Member
med, can you think of another country that you can start with nothing, and if you can keep the freakin goverment off your back, can achieve enormuse wealth?
Nice Ol Bud
Well-Known Member
Words of the wise.. Interesting.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
We could make it more economical for US companies to bring jobs back here. We could lower the corporate tax rate like Ireland did. (yeah I know, stealing economic ideas from Ireland is pretty lol right now, but lowering their corporate tax rate was an undisputed huge success)
We don't have a free trade agreement with China. They put tariffs on goods and services from certain American industries. We could put tariffs on certain products to bring jobs back here. We could pick which jobs we want back and put tariffs on those products to compensate for the cheaper price of labor in China.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Why is it class warfare to expect the government to act in the best interests of the American people, but not class warfare when people are demanding tax cuts for billionaires? Why isn't it class warfare when the wealth of the country is being transfered out of the hands of the people into the hands of the wealthy?
War has two sides. Not one. If there is class warfare going on in this country the top 1% of Americans are winning it and everyone else is losing badly.
laughingduck
Well-Known Member
this is why a flat tax of about 15% to everyone is fair. Get rid of all deductions and loop holes.