Jack Herer's CCHH 2012 Initiative: www.youthfederation.com/cchhi2012.html

[Dan Kone]

Hey no one is stopping anyone from drafting an Initiative to establish the Industry.

I'm not the evil guy!

My point is that to make it legal for the people we should follow the simplicity of Prop 215 and make it so the 5 things are clear to all and then and only then will we get voter approval.

Has anyone considered that it might have been the "Business" aspects of prop 19 that caused it to fail?

If we want to do right by the people then let the Hippies win and let Wall-street file their own Initiative.

Wall ST? lol. wtf are you talking about?

I'm talking about protecting all those people who go out and buy cannabis in stores and the people who've been growing it and selling it for a living for decades. You know, the majority of people this is supposedly for? But fuck that right, as long as you get yours everyone else can fend for themselves.

Let the average cannabis smoker be ripped off from over taxing and monopolies and let nor cal be taken over by big business. As long as you get exactly what you want who gives a shit about anyone else right?

The more I hear from you the more it seems like you've got your own agenda and could care less about everyone else. I'd rather have prop 19 than buy what you're selling.

 

[Dan Kone]

Let us say that Ca. completely legalizes cannabis, no tricks no lies. Don't you think the feds would descend on Ca like locusts, busting everything in site. What we seem to forget is this: The USA has treaties with over 200 countries that make Cannabis illegal. Seeing the USA as lax on cannabis enforcement would denigrate some of these treaties. The US government cannot afford that luxury as these treaties have a lucrative side bar, as in Natural resource extractions. We all know the USA does not have enough natural resources to keep us in the lifestyle we've been accustomed to.

A good question. I think it would depend on how it was legalized. If commercial cannabis stayed decentralized like it is now for the most part I don't think there is a chance in hell the DEA could stop it. They simply do not have enough resources to investigate and arrest small grows all around California with out the help of local law enforcement.

Any massive scale growing will always run the risk of being busted IMO, but it would be incredibly difficult for the DEA acting alone to stop small time commercial growing in California.

 

[Ernst]

Wall ST? lol. wtf are you talking about?

I'm talking about protecting all those people who go out and buy cannabis in stores and the people who've been growing it and selling it for a living for decades. You know, the majority of people this is supposedly for? But fuck that right, as long as you get yours everyone else can fend for themselves.

Let the average cannabis smoker be ripped off from over taxing and monopolies and let nor cal be taken over by big business. As long as you get exactly what you want who gives a shit about anyone else right?

The more I hear from you the more it seems like you've got your own agenda and could care less about everyone else. I'd rather have prop 19 than buy what you're selling.

First off Happy ThanksGiving.

On the issues of what you are championing I am sure you have good points that bear notice.
What I must point out is that things have not slowed down since Prop-19.. Indeed they are just getting Started.

Looks like the Emerald Triangle area wants to run their own Initiative. http://california2012.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=207
I just warned them that if we fail to legalize in 2012 we face another two years of Big-Box producers and we all might lose.
I shared the 5 Things with them.

Friend.. If we all support legalizing for the people then we can make the industry. if we try to make the industry and as a side benefit we decriminalize for the people It Just won't pass.

So yes.. Let come together and unify our interests but we must do for the People first or it will fail.

Join in with the Humboldt people in drafting their initiative or join with Oakland , Chico and other Big-Box grower corporations on what the Industry will look like but if We People do not get Legalization I am not for Industry!
So too will several competing Initiatives that serve to promote only economic interests wil; too keep the people from legislation.

So do what is needed! Craft language that defines business but i am strongly saying We the People will not have legalization if we roll-up with the Business Homies!

It just will be a sad day for the People if we ride in the Business Car instead of the First Class car with the Air Conditioning and deluxe Radio. < a CC Joke >

So again people Remember the Five Things for 2012 http://california2012.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=202

 

[Dan Kone]

Friend.. If we all support legalizing for the people then we can make the industry. if we try to make the industry and as a side benefit we decriminalize for the people It Just won't pass.

So yes.. Let come together and unify our interests but we must do for the People first or it will fail.

Ironic since your 5 things protect only a small group of people while ignoring the majority of cannabis users.

Most people buy cannabis, not grow it. Why is it less important to protect the rights of the majority of cannabis users and only focus on people who want to grow 99 plants and sell pounds to their friends?

 

[Ernst]

It grants equality to all. That isn't what you want?

Protection comes in the form of being in compliance with what rules the Regulatory agency establishes but they work from the law that 99 plants are legal for all so if you grow to much they may take it or just fine you but you will not go to jail.
That is the difference between Decriminalizing and legalizing
Decrim = you go to jail and legalizing = a Fine

If you are still worried about the Business you have better check out what Big-Box Medical is doing with the new D.C> Lobby group.

Prop-19 was not a failure Prop-19 was a fork in the road.

Did Big medical Cannabis lose? No they actually have a clear title to the legal production in California.

So when we say the Five Things are for the people we really mean that. Business isn't a Human being. We can't take the KFC or McDonalds and put it in a cell to do time nor can we put big Canna-Business in a jail Cell,

So why not join us humans and free the people like only California could do.

Let The people who know best decide the Medical Industry and Commercial growing Industry on the State and National level.

The Medical rights will have Job Protections spelled out and over-riding the Supreme court ruling if I have anything to say about it.
Medical Cannabis taxes will be forfeit If I have any say. No More Taxes on medicine even if it is herbal and natural.
Allow outdoor gardens where reasonably possible and a State Level assessment will override the local politics on discrimination if I have anything to say about it. After all why use energy to grow plants when the sun is free?

So if you can have all you want in your possession and any charges would relate to what you are doing rather than what you own is that bad?
if you can hand out all the Weed you care to share or trade it with other people and it is within reasonable situations then why be against us?

I still see that there seems to be a problem separating business from private here.
if I am selling one pounce packages to whoever shows up and the only relationship I have with these people is making sales then that is clearly not private trading but it is business yes?

So there is a difference and like the Five things point out that if we continue to try to offer Decrim as Legalization for the people while trying to use those votes to establish Canna-business law we are not trying to legalize for the people we are trying to stop the people from impacting the market.

Do you see my point?

Yes or no?

 

[Dan Kone]

It grants equality to all. That isn't what you want

No it does not. It establishes equality for all who want to grow 99 plants. That is a very small minority.

It completely ignores the needs of 99% of smokers.

If you are still worried about the Business you have better check out what Big-Box Medical is doing with the new D.C> Lobby group.

Apparently you have some reading comprehension issues. I'll type in big bold letters in the hopes you get it this time.

The majority of people in California buy their weed. What you've proposed does nothing to address their needs. Unless protected, big business and government will take advantage of them. Legalization needs to be about everyone, not just you.

 

[Dan Kone]

if you can hand out all the Weed you care to share or trade it with other people and it is within reasonable situations then why be against us?

You don't get it man. People like buying their buds at dispensaries. Hundreds of thousands of people go to dispensaries in California. Not everyone wants to seek out a black market dealer to buy their buds. In some areas that isn't a particularly safe thing to do. You seemed to be determined to ignore what the people want and just write a law that benefits you and a very small group of people.

I guess it doesn't matter. No one will support what you are selling anyways.

 

[Matt Rize]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/steve-cooley-kamala-harris-attorney-general.html

Kamala Harris Wins as CA Attorney General

One of the closest statewide races in California history has come to an end. Steve Cooley conceded defeat to Kamala Harris in the race for state attorney general. Cooley had declared victory on election night but woke up the next day to discover he was behind. The race went back and forth for weeks as votes were counted, but by last night Harris led Cooley by 53,000 votes and most of the remaining ballots came from counties that favored Harris. Harris&#8217; victory gives Democrats total victory in all statewide California races.

 

[Ernst]

No it does not. It establishes equality for all who want to grow 99 plants. That is a very small minority.

It completely ignores the needs of 99% of smokers.

Guy, This is getting a little stupid.

Where do people get Cannabis now?
So if you can have all you want, grow a huge amount ( probably by permit ) And your friends can give you pounds without it being a crime.

How is that a small majority? It covers everyone!

Dan we have crossed the stupid line here.

I welcome you to man a thread or two at California2012.org

What is happening now is that the Long Beach Dispensary issue has it's day on Feb 8

It is possible all dispensaries will be made illegal or they will be made legal by this decision of a lower court. Remember the appeals court kicked it back down'

Dan industry is organizing. They have a Lobby in Washington now. Dan if we don't legalize for the people in 2012 we may find we only have the right to buy small amounts.
Am I to understand you make your money this way and you are against the people because you are greedy and hateful?

Apparently you have some reading comprehension issues. I'll type in big bold letters in the hopes you get it this time.

The majority of people in California buy their weed. What you've proposed does nothing to address their needs. Unless protected, big business and government will take advantage of them. Legalization needs to be about everyone, not just you.

Dan now you are moving back to the violence.

Dan if you have pounds and grow 99 and everyone in you house 18 and old can grow 99 and have pounds plus all the other 18+ folks in California how is this a restriction?

The Five things include one authority over the State paid for by fees and taxes.

So Dan. I don't know what you are trying to say here except you seem to be on another planet.

However please share your vision of what is the right thing for us California people.
Tell us Dan, What freedoms do you want for all of us and what freedoms do you want for your dispensary?

 

[Dan Kone]

How is that a small majority? It covers everyone

No, it covers people who want to grow 99 plants, that's it. What about people who want to buy their cannabis? You know, the majority of people.

Dan we have crossed the stupid line here.

I totally agree.

Under your proposal it is more legal for the mexican mafia to open up a grow house next to a day care center and start dealing buds to highschool kids than it is for an adult to walk into a dispensary and safely buy buds that have passed health inspections/lab testing. And you seem to think that is totally acceptable.

I'd say we crossed the stupid line a long time ago, I just didn't want to say it first.

It is possible all dispensaries will be made illegal or they will be made legal by this decision of a lower court.

Medical dispensaries. We are talking about legalization, not medical law.

Am I to understand you make your money this way and you are against the people because you are greedy and hateful?

Yes, that's right. I'm a horrible person for suggesting people should be able to buy buds safely in stores.

Dan if you have pounds and grow 99 and everyone in you house 18 and old can grow 99 and have pounds plus all the other 18+ folks in California how is this a restriction?

Not everyone wants to/can grow 99 plants. Some people want to be able to walk into a dispensary and choose from a selection of strains, concentrates, and edibles. Nothing about your system makes that illegal.

The Five things include one authority over the State paid for by fees and taxes.

There are no fees or taxes. Your system doesn't even allow people to open dispensaries. Where do fees/taxes come from? Are you proposing taxing medical cannabis collectives but allowing all recreational use to be tax free? Bad plan.

So Dan. I don't know what you are trying to say here except you seem to be on another planet.

Yes, my planet is called earth. Welcome.

 

[Dan Kone]

However please share your vision of what is the right thing for us California people.
Tell us Dan, What freedoms do you want for all of us and what freedoms do you want for your dispensary?

Excellent question.

1) Legalization for everyone 19 (or 21, doesn't matter to me. just no highschool kids) for possession of up to 2 ounces + whatever your grow yields as long as it's left at your house.

2) Legalization of growing for use. 200sq ft area limit, no plant limit (sets a default plant limit of 99 plants without mentioning 99 plants in the law)

3) The right for people to buy/sell recreational cannabis through dispensaries with a state issued sellers permit.

4) the right for individuals to sell their personal cannabis on consignment through those dispensaries.

5) the right for people to purchase a tested safe product though those dispensaries. THC/CBD/CBN content must be listed as well as any mold and potential pathogens.

6) a set tax ($50/oz or 10% maybe?) on all non-medical cannabis that goes directly to our schools.

7) banning of any additional taxes on cannabis.

make it crystal clear that medical use is exempt in every way from the regulations set by this law.

You see what I just did there? That makes it perfectly legal for everyone to grow and sell bud to dispensaries while not making it legal for dispensaries to open up the massive grow ops allowed by prop 19. That also makes it legal for anyone to open a dispensary without requiring the permission of local officials.

Everyone who wants to make a decent living (not millions) from growing cannabis would be able to without the competition of obscene massive scale growing.

It also allows cannabis users who do not grow their own to go into a dispensary and buy a safe lab tested product. It allows people who to grow all the bud they could possibly need for personal use.

It does not alienate the majority of California voters in the same way what you are proposing does. It won't strike fear in the heart of parents and home owners. Instead of having Californian's worry about their neighbor opening up a grow house and dealing bud to their highschool aged kids, they'll be pleased to be getting additional school funding.

It's legalization that allows cannabis users and non-users to coexist peacefully in a mutually beneficial relationship. No personal freedoms are being denied. Big business is left out in the cold in favor of small businesses that are much more beneficial to the people of our state and our economy. And it does create a cannabis smoker Vs non-smoker mentality.

 

[Ernst]

No, it covers people who want to grow 99 plants, that's it. What about people who want to buy their cannabis? You know, the majority of people.



I totally agree.

Super!

Under your proposal it is more legal for the Mexican Mafia to open up a grow house next to a day care center and start dealing buds to high-school kids than it is for an adult to walk into a dispensary and safely buy buds that have passed health inspections/lab testing. And you seem to think that is totally acceptable.

I'd say we crossed the stupid line a long time ago, I just didn't want to say it first.

You are making things up Dan.

Medical dispensaries. We are talking about legalization, not medical law.



Yes, that's right. I'm a horrible person for suggesting people should be able to buy buds safely in stores.

Nope I'd say that under the Five things the Central Authority is the best bet for enforcing safe buds for all with sales. Remember we already have Cannabis Stores what we do not have is Legalization for all the people.

Not everyone wants to/can grow 99 plants. Some people want to be able to walk into a dispensary and choose from a selection of strains, concentrates, and edibles. Nothing about your system makes that illegal.

And yet there are Cannabis Stores already.. But Not Cannabis Legalization for the people.

There are no fees or taxes. Your system doesn't even allow people to open dispensaries. Where do fees/taxes come from? Are you proposing taxing medical cannabis collectives but allowing all recreational use to be tax free? Bad plan.

Perhaps you missed the point of the Five Things? By Making it legal for people that opens the door for Cannabis Shops for us all. But We are seeing Cannabis-Stores and it isn't legal for everyone.
So far the all in One Initiatives fail to grant people Canna-Rights but we have Canna-Millionaires and Canna-Shops.

Dan I am trying one more time. There is nothing wrong with legalizing Canna-Stores what i am pointing out is that if we Tie Legalizing for the people to Canna-Business law and Canna-Drug law it has a good chance of failing again .
If we fail again in 2012 only Canna-Millionaires will be in business and no one will actually be Canna-Free.
Dan, This is a Cart and Horse situation. We are trying to put the cart before the Horse. Legalizing for business while the people are kept criminals.
Be it what it may be Prop-19 didn't make Canna-Profits illegal it kept those it also kept the people Canna-Criminals.

Dan, We must legalize for the people then work on other things or even do it all in 2012 but have it on Separate Initiatives.
Make it so the People can see clearly that they are voting for the people and not Canna-Cartels of both Mexico and California Medical Types.

Now Dan I will say this clearly and plainly. I am in Favor Of Canna-Business and a safe place for people to get Cannabis.
I am in favor of laboratory testing of all crops before they are cleared to be sold to the public.
I am in favor of this while many of our growers are not from what i have read in the Polls taken.

Dan what I see as a solid path to get all these things done is to separate the issues into A for the People by the People Legalization and a separate and different Business one.
I tend to believe that once it is legal for the people that it will make business law much easier.

Dan Long Beach is the focal point on *IF* Canna-Business is legal when Federal says it isn't

Feb, 8th is the start of that debate..

Dan and other folks.. I think Jack Here and California cannabis Initiative are fine Initiatives but we need to support something that is clear and direct for 2012.
No More gambling that leaves current Canna-Business in the drivers seat of profits and keeps us in the Jail Cell of illegality.

So Dan, I am not on a crusade against what you are supporting.. I am on you side. I just want to see things split up on the Ballot in 2012 as a safety measure Dan.

Yes, my planet is called earth. Welcome.

Let us be done with the violence Dan.. It ruined our Canna-Communities pre-prop-19

We are fools to follow this behaviour towards 2012.

Friends Dan?

 

[Dan Kone]

And yet there are Cannabis Stores already.. But Not Cannabis Legalization for the people.

We have medical cannabis in stores just like we have medical cannabis legalization.

Nothing in what you've said makes it legal for non-medical patients to buy cannabis from anyone other than black market commercial growing.

You are forcing everyone but medical patients to either grow their own or purchase cannabis on the black market. Why?

Perhaps you missed the point of the Five Things?

Oh no, I get it. You want to have black market only cannabis in California and you want to make sure highschool kids have access. Message received loud and clear.

By Making it legal for people that opens the door for Cannabis Shops for us all.

No it doesn't. Show me specifically what you've proposed that makes this legal. If it isn't specifically made legal, it's still illegal.

You also allow open ended taxation of cannabis consumers. When I bring this up you claim I'm greedy and only worried about big business. However this doesn't effect business, it effects cannabis consumers. You know, the people you're claiming to protect.

Let us be done with the violence Dan.. It ruined our Canna-Communities pre-prop-19

No, I'm sorry I can't do that. What you're proposing only protects a very small portion of the community. It ignores the rights of non-growers and gives the majority of Californians a big "fuck you". I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you haven't earned it. I won't continue to pretend that you are concerned with anything more than the ability to turn your house into a grow house. It's clear that's all you care about and that you couldn't give a shit about real legalization, the protection of cannabis users rights, or anything besides what you want for yourself.

What you're proposing would be horrible and your ideas should be opposed.

 

[Ernst]

Excellent question.

1) Legalization for everyone 19 (or 21, doesn't matter to me. just no highschool kids) for possession of up to 2 ounces + whatever your grow yields as long as it's left at your house.

2) Legalization of growing for use. 200sq ft area limit, no plant limit (sets a default plant limit of 99 plants without mentioning 99 plants in the law)

3) The right for people to buy/sell recreational cannabis through dispensaries with a state issued sellers permit.

4) the right for individuals to sell their personal cannabis on consignment through those dispensaries.

5) the right for people to purchase a tested safe product though those dispensaries. THC/CBD/CBN content must be listed as well as any mold and potential pathogens.

6) a set tax ($50/oz or 10% maybe?) on all non-medical cannabis that goes directly to our schools.

7) banning of any additional taxes on cannabis.

make it crystal clear that medical use is exempt in every way from the regulations set by this law.

You see what I just did there? That makes it perfectly legal for everyone to grow and sell bud to dispensaries while not making it legal for dispensaries to open up the massive grow ops allowed by prop 19. That also makes it legal for anyone to open a dispensary without requiring the permission of local officials.

Everyone who wants to make a decent living (not millions) from growing cannabis would be able to without the competition of obscene massive scale growing.

It also allows cannabis users who do not grow their own to go into a dispensary and buy a safe lab tested product. It allows people who to grow all the bud they could possibly need for personal use.

It does not alienate the majority of California voters in the same way what you are proposing does. It won't strike fear in the heart of parents and home owners. Instead of having Californian's worry about their neighbor opening up a grow house and dealing bud to their highschool aged kids, they'll be pleased to be getting additional school funding.

It's legalization that allows cannabis users and non-users to coexist peacefully in a mutually beneficial relationship. No personal freedoms are being denied. Big business is left out in the cold in favor of small businesses that are much more beneficial to the people of our state and our economy. And it does create a cannabis smoker Vs non-smoker mentality.

Certainly these rules can be Made out of a Super-Set of freedoms on the State level.


As long as these rules do not try to violate the State laws of Canna-Freedom make it a fine rather than a felony I have no problem with local jurisdictions imposing rules that work for their areas.
As long as these rules do not conflict with the Five Things.
Such as if you grow more that you are supposed to it is a fine rather than a crime.


So It works for me that some places must place restrictions on some communities and for valid reasons.
As long as the Total Freedom is there by law.

So what is the problem?

What we risk is failure in 2012 for the people and continued Cartel profits for our up and coming medical Cartels who have a Lobby in Washington D.C.

So hell Dan, We set the base set of laws granting Canna-freedoms for the people on the State level and the jurisdictions make rules for their areas that work as long as those rules do not violate the State Canna-Laws.

Sound okay?

On The business stuff I feel that we will be sinking our Ship if we try and bundle business laws up with Legalization for people.

People laws first then Business.

 

[Dan Kone]

Certainly these rules can be Made out of a Super-Set of freedoms on the State level.

What I described above IS legalization that benefits all the people in California. No one on the state level is going to make those things legal. The only way is through a legalization ballot measure.

So what is the problem?

The problem is your version of "legalization" ignores that most people would prefer to buy their buds in a store, which you fail to make legal. You also fail to protect consumers from open ended taxation.

1937. Tax stamp act. look it up. Cannabis can be made illegal for all practical purposes without rules on taxation. What in your 5 rules stops some one in the assembly from putting a $1000 per ounce tax on cannabis? nothing!

Read history, learn from it, don't repeat past mistakes.

You also make it virtually impossible for consumers to know what is in their cannabis. Don't you think people have the right to know if they are smoking mold and avid? Cannabis sold in stores and regulated can protect people from that. Buying bud only from black market dealers makes this impossible.

So hell Dan, We set the base set of laws granting Canna-freedoms for the people on the State level and the jurisdictions make rules for their areas that work as long as those rules do not violate the State Canna-Laws.

Sound okay?

No, not at all. What you are proposing is much worse than the worst possible outcome of prop 19. You just don't seem to understand what you are proposing or you do understand and really don't give a shit about anyone but yourself.

 

[JustAnotherFriedDay]

What do you say we RIUers start a thread called the NEW 2012 legalization bill.

We will all write it together based off of agreed upon suggestions and the original post will keep getting updated until we have a bill we can work with. Then, we get the signatures and put it on the 2012 ballot.

Who's with me???

I say Dan starts the thread. He knows his shit.

My suggestion? 1,200 dollars a year in taxes for a state issued recreational growers license. If you think 100 dollars a month is a lot you shouldn't be growing. I love the 200 sq ft area idea btw. That's barely enough for 99 plants

 

[JustAnotherFriedDay]

Oh and no way $50/oz tax! 10% yes!

50/oz tax on a 100-150 dollar oz would SUCK. Prices will be that low in time after legalization occurs.

edit: actually considering that some med patients already get those kind of prices, I don't see ounces costing a bill or more a couple years after legalization

 

[Ernst]

What I described above IS legalization that benefits all the people in California. No one on the state level is going to make those things legal. The only way is through a legalization ballot measure.



The problem is your version of "legalization" ignores that most people would prefer to buy their buds in a store, which you fail to make legal. You also fail to protect consumers from open ended taxation.

1937. Tax stamp act. look it up. Cannabis can be made illegal for all practical purposes without rules on taxation. What in your 5 rules stops some one in the assembly from putting a $1000 per ounce tax on cannabis? nothing!

Read history, learn from it, don't repeat past mistakes.

You also make it virtually impossible for consumers to know what is in their cannabis. Don't you think people have the right to know if they are smoking mold and avid? Cannabis sold in stores and regulated can protect people from that. Buying bud only from black market dealers makes this impossible.



No, not at all. What you are proposing is much worse than the worst possible outcome of prop 19. You just don't seem to understand what you are proposing or you do understand and really don't give a shit about anyone but yourself.

Enough with the insults.

I am for all people having all the Cannabis they want.
I am for people growing 99 plants only because the federal Government has set that as a limit.
I am for all Adults 18+ to granted the above rights.
I am for a Central State Regulatory agency to over see that people have rights in each county.
I am for you and I being able to exchange cannabis without it being a crime.

Now what are you for again?

I am sure that there will be need to issue permits for gardens above some amount and that is cool as long as the right to grow 99 is there.

As for business Again I am saying that Prop 215 passed because it was a "For The People" initiative so let us pattern legalization for the people after prop-215 and leave the business aspects to the Legislature and Governor because trying to make the People carry the weight of establishing industry laws has caused our Canna-Freedom to fail with prop-19

So Dan, if it is legal for 99 can you stay at 6 plants? Sure you can.
Dan if people grow out 99 every year to refresh seeds stocks and are Genetics seed savers is that a good thing? Yes it is.

It will be easier if the people have more rights to cannabis rather than less.

if you are asking me to want less freedom Dan, I'm not going to agree to that.

So are we clear?
Fight for the rules that work in your local community but we already have growers at the 99 plant level so we have to include them in if we want to get everyone's support on legalizing in 2012.

Again The Five things do not nullify existing laws on School Zones or other sensible laws for protecting Children.

So what do you say? Are you for Legalizing for the people or not?

Business is separate issue. Drug Policy is a separate issue.

We need to be made aware that we tried to pass an all in one package and it failed so the second try has to be stripped down and for the people.
if that cannot pass then we see clearly what the California people want. If it does pass then Business can work with our Leaders to come up with business policy and drug policy.

I am not wanting to have our vote in 2012 fail. So let not try change too many things with one Initiative.

Simple is how it will work. We will be better off with Legalization for the people to start with than to fail to pass an all in one Initiative again!
We were dumb with prop 19 but still Big Box-Medical Cannabis makes bank still and the people are still criminals.

Free the People in 2012.

Dan Stop with the violence please. Together we can make it happen in 2012.

 

[JustAnotherFriedDay]

Enough with the insults.

I am for all people having all the Cannabis they want.
I am for people growing 99 plants only because the federal Government has set that as a limit.
I am for all Adults 18+ to granted the above rights.
I am for a Central State Regulatory agency to over see that people have rights in each county.
I am for you and I being able to exchange cannabis without it being a crime.

Now what are you for again?

I am sure that there will be need to issue permits for gardens above some amount and that is cool as long as the right to grow 99 is there.

As for business Again I am saying that Prop 215 passed because it was a "For The People" initiative so let us pattern legalization for the people after prop-215 and leave the business aspects to the Legislature and Governor because trying to make the People carry the weight of establishing industry laws has caused our Canna-Freedom to fail with prop-19

So Dan, if it is legal for 99 can you stay at 6 plants? Sure you can.
Dan if people grow out 99 every year to refresh seeds stocks and are Genetics see savers is that a good thing? Yes it is.

It will be easier if the people have more rights to cannabis than less.

if you are asking me to want less freedom Dan, I'm not going to agree to that.

So are we clear?
Fight for the rules that work in your local community but we already have growers at the 99 plant level so we have to include them in if we want to get everyone's support on legalizing in 2012.

Again The Five things do not nullify existing laws on School Zones or other sensible laws for protecting Children.

So what do you say? Are you for Legalizing for the people or not?

Business is separate issue. Drug Policy is a separate issue.

We need to be made aware that we tried to pass an all in one package and it failed so the second try has to be stripped down and for the people.
if that cannot pass then we see clearly what the California people want. If it does pass then Business can work with our Leaders to come up with business policy and drug policy.

I am not wanting to have our vote in 2012 fail. So let not try change too many things with one Initiative.

Simple is how it will work. We will be better off with Legalization for the people to start with than to fail to pass an all in one Initiative again!
We were dumb with prop 19 but still Big Box-Medical Cannabis makes bank still and the people are still criminals.

Free the People in 2012.

Dan Stop with the violence please. Together we can make it happen in 2012.

I'd have to assume you are slightly delusional (not an insult) if you think Dan is being violent or insulting you. He is on your side. He's just indifferent about the way you want to make it happen.

What you don't realize is that there IS NO CHANCE AT AN INITIATIVE without the government getting their cut.

The only reason 215 passed is because it was for medicinal purposes.



Unless more than 50% of Californias are big enough stoners to say FUCK OUR ECONOMY WE JUST WANT POT FUCK TAXES then it will NEVER pass without a business and money aspect to it.

 

[JustAnotherFriedDay]

Our vote in 2012 would have an even better chance of failing without a business aspect to it. 51% of all Californians aren't potheads (daily users). Sucks, but that's the way it is. I'm sure it's more like 10% which is still enormous.