Is the democratic party stupid, blind, clueless or is it based on ideology?

[doc111]

I thought your diatribe was very misplaced. Where does NLXSK1 state he gets his ideas from Fox news? Where does he state that only the republicans can fix anything? Just because someone does not like the way things are currently going under a democrat leadership doesn't automatically imply that they are diametrically opposed. Inferring someones beliefs by what they don't believe in is a sure way to humility. Basically your whole post was just one big straw man argument and holds no merit at all.

This same exact strawman argument can be applied to the left. Just insert MSNBC instead of "FAUX" news. I particularly enjoyed the part about Republicans lying to get into office. It seems to me to be more of a politician thing in general.

 

[Dan Kone]

when the tax rates were 70% the rich earned in excess of $50,000 which is $1.14 MILLION in todays dollars, not $250k.

A fair point. I'd be perfectly happy with creating a new tax bracket that separated the upper middle class from the rich and giving the tax cut to people making $250k.

At some point, additional taxes so discourage the activity being taxed, such as working or investing, that they yield less revenue rather than more.

Sure, but we aren't anywhere near that point. Our history proves that.

 

[Dan Kone]

AHHH I now see how you have been deluded into thinking this is right/left issue. Its not, its an issue of liberty and freedoms.

Well what you are suggesting is an extreme far right position. That isn't a delusion, it's true. I'm advocating a tax rate that we had during Reagan's first term. I think we should be able to agree that advocating a tax rate that Reagan had is not a leftist position. What you're advocating is that the rich keep an unprecedentedly low tax rate. This position is supported by every single republican senator, a large majority of republicans in the house, and fox news.

The position you are taking is a far right wing position whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[Dan Kone]

Over 1/2 the population do not pay federal taxes. The top 1% of the wealthy in America pay 40% of federal taxes.

The people that benefit the most from American society are the people on generational welfare that continue to drain the system and not contribute. I agree they should pay alot more.

The top 1% earn more money than the bottom 90%. Are 90% of people just lazy welfare babies? Does that one percent really work harder than the combined efforts of 90% of Americans? If they are earning more than the bottom 90% combined then why shouldn't they pay their fare share of the taxes?

I want EVERYBODY to pay less in taxes... I consider all taxation confiscation of wealth.

Without taxes we would have anarchy. Is that really what you want?

 

[Dan Kone]

the people makeing over 250k are alot of small businesses... they are not the 1% that everyone keeps bull#hitting... that's basically foolish a notion ment to confuse and trick you into allowing the garbage to perpetuate...

We used to distinguish between those two groups until we got a conservative president who ended that, eliminating the top tax bracket. If you're arguing that we should be making that distinction again, creating a new top tax bracket with lower taxes on upper middle class folks, I think that's reasonable. What's not reasonable is supporting even bigger tax cuts to billionaires when they are already paying historically low taxes.

 

[NoDrama]

This same exact strawman argument can be applied to the left. Just insert MSNBC instead of "FAUX" news. I particularly enjoyed the part about Republicans lying to get into office. It seems to me to be more of a politician thing in general.

100% truth there. No difference between Dems and repubs, just 2 sides to the same coin.

 

[NoDrama]

Without taxes we would have anarchy. Is that really what you want?

Really? We didn't have any anarchy for the first 150 years of this country. The income tax came out in 1913, Which I am assuming you realize is not the same year as 1776. The Federal Reserve act was passed months before the 16th amendment. Coincidence?

Its not a far right position is just the correct position, just because conservatives think its a good idea doesn't automatically mean its bad for democrats. And it doesn't automatically mean its the wrong thing to do. I suppose some liberals who don't think for themselves just automatically align themselves in opposition to anything the right says just because the left feels they are always correct and everyone else is always wrong. If Nancy Pelosi, President Obama and the majority of democrats supported the tax cuts would you?

History shows Thanks to "bracket creep," the inflation of the 1970s pushed millions of taxpayers into higher tax brackets even though their inflation-adjusted incomes were not rising. To help offset this tax increase and also to improve incentives to work, save, and invest, President Reagan proposed sweeping tax rate reductions during the 1980s. What happened? Total tax revenues climbed by 99.4 percent during the 1980s, and the results are even more impressive when looking at what happened to personal income tax revenues. Once the economy received an unambiguous tax cut in January 1983, income tax revenues climbed dramatically, increasing by more than 54 percent by 1989 (28 percent after adjusting for inflation).


Taxes were cut, tax revenue increased 99.4%. What else can I say?


Edit: What is so wrong with anarchy anyway? If people can be responsible there is no need for government. All anarchy is , is lack of government. Its not some post apocalyptic tyrannical lawless every man for himself world.

 

[NLXSK1]

What no drama said.

I am against the spending from both sides. I am a registered independent but I would say that I am more of a libertarian.

The Republican party and more importantly the Tea Party just happen to be closer to my ideology. I was against Iraq, I was against TARP when Bush did it. This hasnt happened in the last 10 years or the last 20 before that.

There just has to be a time when we say ENOUGH!!! Before all the politicians destroy everything that makes this country great.

 

[NLXSK1]

Over 1/2 the population do not pay federal taxes. The top 1% of the wealthy in America pay 40% of federal taxes.

The people that benefit the most from American society are the people on generational welfare that continue to drain the system and not contribute. I agree they should pay alot more.

The top 1% earn more money than the bottom 90%. Are 90% of people just lazy welfare babies? Does that one percent really work harder than the combined efforts of 90% of Americans? If they are earning more than the bottom 90% combined then why shouldn't they pay their fare share of the taxes?



Without taxes we would have anarchy. Is that really what you want?

I didnt say that there should be no taxes. I said that taxes were a confiscation of wealth.

The federal government has ballooned completely out of proportion to its function. The constitution was a document designed to limit government. However, with perverse interpretations of certain clauses the federal government has put its nose in everything from how many gallons your toilet can flush to the criminalizing of the incandescent light bulb.

The federal government's most important job is Defense... Notice that it is called Defense? There is a reason it is not called *sail around the world and engage in nation building* Now, if I was a Republican you would expect me to say that we shouldnt cut defense... Well slash the fucker. We spend 1/2 of all the defense money IN THE WORLD. Enough is enough.

Let the fuckin UN sort it out. If I was king I would pull all our troops out of Germany, Japan, Korea, etc... The troops would come home from Afganistan and Iraq. Let the middle east sort it out. I would reduce our forces through attrition and place alot of money into equipment and training so we have a much smaller more capable fighting force. We are not going to try to go toe to toe with India, China or Russia any time soon. New wars will be won with technology not toe to toe fighting.

I say we cut all departments by 20%... Social Security? We set up means testing and stop sending payments to millionaires. Then we lengthen the enrollment age and plan to phase out the massive ponzi scheme.

Medicare? Even the government admits 20% fraud goes on in medicare. Stuff like creating electronic patient files and beefing up investigation and enforcement of laws would cut costs there... Putting in torte reform would cut lawsuits saving costs. - start cutting out the middlemen.

Those are the big 3.

As for congress I would demand that congressmen and senators make no more money per year than the national average. I would cut their expense budgets. I would demand term limits of 2 terms to get the old blood out of the congress. Cut out earmarks that cannot be traced to specific congressmen. Demand that as required, laws made in congress be simple to understand.

Cut all subsidies both foreign and domestic. I mean cut all funding to PBS, NPR, the sugar subsidies, money we send to Israel and other allies, etc.... Hey, we are fuckin broke.

And if china wants to continue to play hardball on trade then put a blanket tariff on their imports directed toward paying down our debt.

I could go on for a long time. There are too many common sense actions that could be taken that are not to show the whole fucking government is rigged.

 

[IOWNEVERY1]

Many of these people were born into wealth, they've never had to work a day in their lives.

.

I think it is completely false to say the wealthy work harder than the middle class. Many of them just had more opportunities in their lives. Judging by the wealthy people I know, their success had little to do with hard work or intelligence and a lot to do with being born into the right circumstances.

A CEO on average makes 700x what his average employee makes. Does a CEO really work 700 times harder than his average employee?

No but that CEO took the risk into making that company and starting it. If you really think the people who make more should pay more in taxes you are a lazy piece of shit in my opinion. Why would anyone want to work really hard in school to pay the government more of their money? What message does this send the youth???

 

[IOWNEVERY1]

So why take from the middle class and give to the rich when the opposite will stimulate the economy more.

I'm not talking about any thing robin hood like, just going back to a moderate historical tax rate that worked out very well for our country. Why is an extreme far right tax rate better?

no one is saying take from the middle class and give it to the rich.....were saying make everyone pay the same percent. How is this not fair????

 

[Dan Kone]

No but that CEO took the risk into making that company and starting it. If you really think the people who make more should pay more in taxes you are a lazy piece of shit in my opinion. Why would anyone want to work really hard in school to pay the government more of their money? What message does this send the youth???

So advocating going back to a historically moderately low tax rate on the rich = lazy piece of shit? If you say so.

The rich are doing very well. A 40% tax rate won't stop them from making huge profits, it never did in the past

 

[Dan Kone]

no one is saying take from the middle class and give it to the rich.....were saying make everyone pay the same percent. How is this not fair????

Actually you are. Where is the for those tax cuts supposed to come from? Spending cuts to government services like medicare/social security? That's taking money out of the pockets of the middle class just the same as if you raised taxes on them. It's basically still just regressive taxing. There is no effective difference between cutting services to the middle class and raising taxes on them. If you cut spending to public transportation, they will have to raise bus fairs. Who rides the bus? Primarily the middle class and poor. That's basically taxing them.

So yes, this money all does come from somewhere. If you're going to cut taxes on the rich that money is coming out of someone else's pocket.

 

[NoDrama]

Lets get one thing straight. NOBODY is going to pay less taxes.

 

[beardo]

If you are truly liberal gay marry a illegal immigrant

 

[redivider]

you guys are delusional.

you are saying that increasing taxes on 3% of the population will harm the economy, but you ignore the effect of the growing deficit is having on our economy.

more detrimental to our economic state will be the huge deficit that will be blown in the budget if the tax cuts are extended.

you keep ignoring it and it will bite you in the ass. as a matter of fiscal responsibility republicans and teabaggers have proven themselves to be full of shit, because they don't care how big the deficit gets, all they care about is tax cuts for the rich.

as a matter of economic 'matter of fact-ness' republicans have also failed. because they've refused to extend unemployment benefits which every economist knows is exactly what is needed to keep spending up.

no economist worth anything, who actually wants to keep his/her credibility will say that cutting taxes for the very wealthy produces jobs because it doessn't. never has. never will.

 

[NLXSK1]

no economist worth anything, who actually wants to keep his/her credibility will say that cutting taxes for the very wealthy produces jobs because it doessn't. never has. never will.

It worked for Kennedy...

 

[IOWNEVERY1]

you guys are delusional.

you are saying that increasing taxes on 3% of the population will harm the economy, but you ignore the effect of the growing deficit is having on our economy.

more detrimental to our economic state will be the huge deficit that will be blown in the budget if the tax cuts are extended.

you keep ignoring it and it will bite you in the ass. as a matter of fiscal responsibility republicans and teabaggers have proven themselves to be full of shit, because they don't care how big the deficit gets, all they care about is tax cuts for the rich.

as a matter of economic 'matter of fact-ness' republicans have also failed. because they've refused to extend unemployment benefits which every economist knows is exactly what is needed to keep spending up.

no economist worth anything, who actually wants to keep his/her credibility will say that cutting taxes for the very wealthy produces jobs because it doessn't. never has. never will.

yes the deficit is growing, and who is responsible for this? Here is a list of pork spending by Obama and his administration I am from NC so this list applies greatly to me but just look at how dumb this is.

Stimulus Waste in the Great State of North Carolina

1. Study of monkeys using cocaine: $71,623
Wake Forest University was granted money to “study the effects of self-administering cocaine on the glutamate system on monkeys.” Well, at least th...e monkeys will be stimulated.

2. North Carolina Dance Theatre: $50,000
This grant is used to retain four professional dancers from the North Carolina Dance Theatre’s second company. Nice for them, but why are tax dollars financing what should be a privately-funded philanthropic organization?

3. Reducing hot flashes through yoga: $147,694
Funds granted to Wake Forest University to study “preliminary data on the efficacy of integral yoga for reducing menopausal hot flashes.” The President warned us that the stimulus plan was needed to avoid an economic “catastrophe.” How does this study help revive the economy?

4. Create interactive dance performance technology: $762,372
This grant to UNC-Charlotte will fund the development of computer technology to digitally record the dance moves of performers. The recorded movements can then be reviewed and manipulated by a computer program. Although creating virtual-reality type technology for dance movements may be interesting to those involved, how does this serve to “protect the education of our children”? At an average salary of roughly $47,000, this money could have saved 16 North Carolina teacher jobs.

5. American Dance Festival, Inc.: $50,000
A graphic designer and archivist will retain their jobs thanks to this grant. The American Dance Festival hosts dance classes, workshops and engages in other charitable activities to help support dancers. How will this help reverse a major international financial crisis, exactly?

6. Construction of a new Town Hall in Bladenboro: $200,000; $100,000
Total: $300,000
Why are taxpayers from across the country forced to finance construction of a local government office? This is a classic case of earmark pork spending.

7. North Carolina Folk Life Institute:$25,000
With the help of this grant, the Institute was able to retain its executive director. Will this help “provide relief to North Carolina’s families”?

8. Preservation of an insect collection at North Carolina State: $253,123
We were promised that the stimulus was going to “save jobs.” We were never told it would also help preserve dead bugs.

9. Greensboro Symphony Orchestra: $50,000
These funds are used to retain the GSO’s director of marketing and education manager. More bailouts of what should be a privately-funded organization


If you want to lose the deficit then do it smartly. Cutting the stupid spending is a way to start, not by taxing the rich who give more jobs and put more money into the economy than anyone.

 

[Dan Kone]

yes the deficit is growing, and who is responsible for this? Here is a list of pork spending by Obama and his administration I am from NC so this list applies greatly to me but just look at how dumb this is.

Stimulus Waste in the Great State of North Carolina

1. Study of monkeys using cocaine: $71,623
Wake Forest University was granted money to “study the effects of self-administering cocaine on the glutamate system on monkeys.” Well, at least th...e monkeys will be stimulated.

2. North Carolina Dance Theatre: $50,000
This grant is used to retain four professional dancers from the North Carolina Dance Theatre’s second company. Nice for them, but why are tax dollars financing what should be a privately-funded philanthropic organization?

3. Reducing hot flashes through yoga: $147,694
Funds granted to Wake Forest University to study “preliminary data on the efficacy of integral yoga for reducing menopausal hot flashes.” The President warned us that the stimulus plan was needed to avoid an economic “catastrophe.” How does this study help revive the economy?

4. Create interactive dance performance technology: $762,372
This grant to UNC-Charlotte will fund the development of computer technology to digitally record the dance moves of performers. The recorded movements can then be reviewed and manipulated by a computer program. Although creating virtual-reality type technology for dance movements may be interesting to those involved, how does this serve to “protect the education of our children”? At an average salary of roughly $47,000, this money could have saved 16 North Carolina teacher jobs.

5. American Dance Festival, Inc.: $50,000
A graphic designer and archivist will retain their jobs thanks to this grant. The American Dance Festival hosts dance classes, workshops and engages in other charitable activities to help support dancers. How will this help reverse a major international financial crisis, exactly?

6. Construction of a new Town Hall in Bladenboro: $200,000; $100,000
Total: $300,000
Why are taxpayers from across the country forced to finance construction of a local government office? This is a classic case of earmark pork spending.

7. North Carolina Folk Life Institute:$25,000
With the help of this grant, the Institute was able to retain its executive director. Will this help “provide relief to North Carolina’s families”?

8. Preservation of an insect collection at North Carolina State: $253,123
We were promised that the stimulus was going to “save jobs.” We were never told it would also help preserve dead bugs.

9. Greensboro Symphony Orchestra: $50,000
These funds are used to retain the GSO’s director of marketing and education manager. More bailouts of what should be a privately-funded organization


If you want to lose the deficit then do it smartly. Cutting the stupid spending is a way to start, not by taxing the rich who give more jobs and put more money into the economy than anyone.

Either my math is bad or those things do not add up to 70 billion dollars per year. It's pretty easy to go pick out some small government spending you don't agree with, not so easy to find $70 billion worth you can cut that won't have the same result as raising taxes on the middle class.

 

[Luger187]

Because a poor person never gave me a job. It taxes rich people, it taxes capital gains, etc. And it is a tax increase. If your taxes go up that is called an increase. The extra 70 billion dollars per year that they are confiscating from wealthy people - many of those are small business owners is money that cannot be invested in jobs and businesses.

It *affects* me in the fact that the economy continues to be sluggish when we could be doing so much better. A rising tide lifts all boats, etc...

My question is why are the Democrats acting the way they are? How do they possibly think they can gain from this tactic of allowing all taxes to go up?

instead of a few rich people getting a lot of tax breaks, why not give a lot of "middle class" or poor people smaller tax breaks? they will appreciate the extra few hundred bucks a LOT more than those rich people would appreciate the thousands/millions. the poor people would also spend all of it, buying products, and giving income to businesses. with that income, the businesses can create more jobs.

if u were to give tax breaks to the rich people, whats to stop them from pocketing the cash, and not hiring more people? wouldnt they just put it in their bank accounts and wait till it accrues interest? why would they hire more people if the economy is shit, and none of the "poorer" people can buy their products?

this whole "trickle down" economics thing is a bunch of bullshit.

thoe rich bastards dont need that money. theyre not going to go out of business if they dont get their great tax cuts. Bush lowered them so drastically, and now they are saying theyll be SOOOO HIGH when the bill expires. do u not realize that the tax situation will be the same as it was when Clinton left, if the bill expires? i really dont see that as a big deal at all