Led Users Unite!

[Pure]

What I will say is that the whole 90 vs 400 watt comparison should be thrown out the window by now. That was started by LED manufacurers and it was only for Veg. Flowering just doesn't stack up like that. So that leads us to the next comparison: You are comparing 4.4x HID wattage to 1 LED watt. Does the HID side look 4.4x better? Not from what I can see, it doesn't even look 50% better to me.

From my experience you should only have a 90w UFO style to a sq. ft. at about 12-18" tall plants. I have been running half and half LED/CFL cabinet grow for about a year and have pulled over half a gram per watt, check the links in my sig for more info.

Sup Dude,

Sorry bout the delay, been traveling....
Sorry I don't get the 4.4x .... calculation there. But I can tell you from a living point of view the HiD side is bigger! the leaves and even the stems. Now since I've seen this change I've taken the safe road and placed my HiD center stage and put my LED on backup role.

With that being said the perfect combo for me is is Germ/Veg under LED if you only have low wattage. But Flower under a HPS or HiD. Had my setup been a higher wattage than a 90W (Prosource) Illuminator, the size difference may not have been so significant. But for this grow the 90W LED - 400W HiD. The Hid side DID look 50% bigger I never said better ..... Now with the HiD on top, both plants look nice and healthy and most importantly "productive".

Here is some Porn...


Pure...

 

[Kaptain Kron]

yeah i can definately agree with that a 90w is really a waste of time unless your using it for only one plant and even then pretty much a waste flower wise, now for veg a 90w is sufficient, but with flower i would stick with something at least around 240w or so my blackstar 240 is kickin ass, im medicated so im drawing a massive blank right now on manufacturer name ah yes thats right kessil also makes some stuff that looks very interesting. I went blackstar because of the cheap factor and also the fact that it uses 3w cree LED's made in the usa and i have a warranty as well.

 

[luckyskindaguy]

Sup Dude,

Sorry bout the delay, been traveling....
Sorry I don't get the 4.4x .... calculation there. But I can tell you from a living point of view the HiD side is bigger! the leaves and even the stems. Now since I've seen this change I've taken the safe road and placed my HiD center stage and put my LED on backup role.

With that being said the perfect combo for me is is Germ/Veg under LED if you only have low wattage. But Flower under a HPS or HiD. Had my setup been a higher wattage than a 90W (Prosource) Illuminator, the size difference may not have been so significant. But for this grow the 90W LED - 400W HiD. The Hid side DID look 50% bigger I never said better ..... Now with the HiD on top, both plants look nice and healthy and most importantly "productive".

Here is some Porn...


Pure...

The comaprison is that you are using 440% more watts of HID and yet the plants only look 50% bigger......

 

[Pure]

The comaprison is that you are using 440% more watts of HID and yet the plants only look 50% bigger......

Ok,

Well if you actually want to look at it realistically you'll have to consider where the plants came from. Both were near death! So to even have 1 portion of the plant looking 50% better than, an already healthy looking plant, is in itself a testimonial to the efficiency of the HiD during flowering. Also take into consideration that the entire plant was under the LED, so why now is 50% better? Because we've added 440% more watts
There is no way - in this push - to mathematically determine the anticipated difference in size seeing as (like i said before) this push was practically dead. And thankfully I was able to pull them both out of the hands of death. The Hid did help. Whether it was proportional to the energy usage is surely a NO. But that wasnt my aim.


Pure...

 

[chazbolin]

"spectral bands you think are so important are useless to plants."

THAT IS FALSE INFORMATION YOU ARE SPREADING, ALL wavelengths are important to plant growth, go back and don't just read what a website tells you, do your OWN research, Even Green, YES GREEN is an important spectrum for the plant. This is why the LED revolution is having a hard time overthrowing HID, the info and the science is just not being quoted accurately, this is like watching FOX News.


"There are many lights, comparable in quality, for better deals."

- You have YET to show me one example of a brand that is better in quality and design than GROWL, I shot down your Height comparison pretty easily, what else ya got?


".5) You need 5 different leds to get plant growth equal to a standard metal halide/HPS light. As well a standard red and blue (640 Nm and 460 Nm) you need 660 Nm red to promote flowering, 430 Nm blue for the hard resinous buds (without it you get 'fluffy' buds with no weight) and warm white which provides far red out to about 800 Nm, again for flowering.
Notice no orange, etc."

- THAT "INFORMATION" IS OUTDATED AND INCOMPLETE. For real? Your scientific "research" is cutting and pasting from a DIY site from the UK, REALLY?


"...watts just measures how much power is consumed NOT how much light is produced..."

- You have yet to mention PAR, go ahead, I'll wait while you look it up.... Yeah, thats what you measure for plant response to light. 5 @1W LEDs will give off more PAR, LUMENS, whatever measurable unit you want, than a 5W LED, this has nothing to do w/ growing, this is just the science of an LED, not growers opinions. What you want for more canopy penetration is not a "BIGGER WATT LED", you would want 1W with different degree focused lenses.


The fact is, GROWL makes the top quality and best results lights. I'm not trying to argue with other LED users out there, we need to make this take over HID so in-fighting does no one any good. Go to the GROWL facebook page and see the results, what other site has Cannabis results posted in picture and video?
http://www.facebook.com/pages/GrowL-LED-Inc/222963509269?v=photos
I just know what I speak because I have been using LED and been on this site for 1 1/2 years and you sound like you haven't been around these parts all that long based on how you respond, you kinda come off like a PT Phish kid. Don't get me wrong, if we were ever at a show, I'd buy ya a beer (we are both LED growers) But to each his own, you have fun "saving money" and in about a year when your shit breaks and you can't seem to figure out who to talk to for customer service and repair and you have to shell out more money for a new panel, don't say I didn't warn you. You get what you pay for, you'll remember that in about a year.

Some excellent feedback on LED from both Krimble and Kron.

Have you guys heard the term LED DROOP? It has come to my attention that within the LED industry this is a well known phenomenon that results in severe LEd deprecation in lamp life and efficiencies when overdriving the LED lamps to gain higher radiometric quanta of PPF within those narrow bandwidths. All in an attempt of course to increase yields at least or in excess of other types of grow lights available.

Or the Emerson Effect as it relates to LED bandwidths not being wide enough to facilitate the maximum net photosynthetic yields as the narrow bandwidths reduce photomorphogenesis within the different absorption curves under IR light for the plants ideal chlorophyll A and B absorption requirements? Having experimented with LED grow lamps myself, to me this represents one of the problems that is inherently going to be an issue with LED as they cannot have their cake and eat it to when it comes to energy savings and providing enough light intensity within the multiple red bandwidths that deliver a healthy and re-creative indoor grow light that is less costly to operate and purchase then other less expensive methods.

Foe those seeking the advantages that LED brings to the grower, there are better options such as induction grow lighting that are going to deliver high PAR values, are long life, less expensive to buy, operate and don't have the reliability issues that the overdriven LED lamps have been (warranty issues), at least with some of the LED manufacturers, problem beset with.

 

[Kaptain Kron]

Some excellent feedback on LED from both Krimble and Kron.

Have you guys heard the term LED DROOP? It has come to my attention that within the LED industry this is a well known phenomenon that results in severe LEd deprecation in lamp life and efficiencies when overdriving the LED lamps to gain higher radiometric quanta of PPF within those narrow bandwidths. All in an attempt of course to increase yields at least or in excess of other types of grow lights available.

Or the Emerson Effect as it relates to LED bandwidths not being wide enough to facilitate the maximum net photosynthetic yields as the narrow bandwidths reduce photomorphogenesis within the different absorption curves under IR light for the plants ideal chlorophyll A and B absorption requirements? Having experimented with LED grow lamps myself, to me this represents one of the problems that is inherently going to be an issue with LED as they cannot have their cake and eat it to when it comes to energy savings and providing enough light intensity within the multiple red bandwidths that deliver a healthy and re-creative indoor grow light that is less costly to operate and purchase then other less expensive methods.

Foe those seeking the advantages that LED brings to the grower, there are better options such as induction grow lighting that are going to deliver high PAR values, are long life, less expensive to buy, operate and don't have the reliability issues that the overdriven LED lamps have been (warranty issues), at least with some of the LED manufacturers, problem beset with.

ive done next to no research on induction but from what i have read in here and from my brief lookings around this seems to be pretty good product http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140486223020&hlp=false&rvr_id=180227406360&crlp=1_263602_304652&UA=M*S?&GUID=dd051e4112b0a02652a0c0f0ff6e9557&itemid=140486223020&ff4=263602_304652 could be wrong though dont take that as gospel. Anyways i think i am going to look into this for my next purchase possibly or some sort of induction if i can keep it to about the same price as what i was planning on spending on another led. I think if this induction works good i may sell my blackstar and get a kessil h150w blue spectrum i would go wide angle because i would be using it for veg only and flower with induction. Oh so many options now that i have my setup for growing the actual plants dialed and my methods dialed the only thing i can do to make it better is find better genetics or to get better lighting.

 

[Viagro]

Check out inductionlamps.com for some interesting deals.

edit: KaptK- The Kessil 150 is 36w, not 150. It's amazing.

 

[Kaptain Kron]

yea i iknow its just what they call it i know it only uses 36w makes me kinda wary but well i know you got one what spectrum did you go with?

 

[Kaptain Kron]

heres a question for you viagro they have hydro induction lights on that website you sent me to but those ones are one spectrum only is that going to make a big difference compared to these ones like the one i posted which is also a 200w and 50 bucks less but has dual spectrum. Basically i want to go with the 3k right if im flowering with it and the 5500k if im veg with it? Or with these lamps is it more necessary to have dual spectrum

 

[Viagro]

yea i iknow its just what they call it i know it only uses 36w makes me kinda wary but well i know you got one what spectrum did you go with?

I just mentioned it, because you said 150w. Read this. It explains how Kessil gets so much from so little. I got the magenta, and is perfect for a small tent.

heres a question for you viagro they have hydro induction lights on that website you sent me to but those ones are one spectrum only is that going to make a big difference compared to these ones like the one i posted which is also a 200w and 50 bucks less but has dual spectrum. Basically i want to go with the 3k right if im flowering with it and the 5500k if im veg with it? Or with these lamps is it more necessary to have dual spectrum

2700k for flowering. Yeah, I know, they have one like hydrohut has in the dual spectrum, but its single band. You can buy two for less than the other one, and have much more wattage (80w as opposed to 50w). I bought two of the smaller 23w screw-ins, one 6500k and one 2700k. They are out of the smallest ones.

edit: I bought one from hydrohut, and I'm impressed.

I'm growing some stuff in my entryway, and I needed white light, so I got interested in these lights. Plants love em, I can vouch for that.

Oh yeah, I like that light you posted, but I don't know what to say.

 

[Kaptain Kron]

well look the 150w kessil lights are not 150w the 150 stands for model the w stands for wide angle more light spread than the standard model same output and everything different angle lense. I'll check out the hydrohut dual spectrum the one light i posted thats maybe what i might buy because its dual spectrum for the same price as the single spectrum and its 200w which is nice and hefty i guess for these lights. Good to hear the plants like it i may do some experimenting.

 

[Kaptain Kron]

ahh that style induction where its screw in to normal socket now that one yea is def cheaper on induction lamps i was lookin at the SICK one with the crazy reflective hood and stuff on the bottom of their page but they are only single spectrum +(

 

[Kaptain Kron]

let me know how that kessil works and in how small of a space are you talking because my 240w blackstar barely covers my 2x3 area, if i start to run the kessil what i will probably start using it for is Veg only so i will probably only have one over one plant in a water farm and my mother area will be cfl while the flower area will be one plant in a water farm with my 240w over it. Eventually i will switch fully to kessil if i think ONE of their magneta models will perform as well as my 240w blackstar panel because they are essentially the same price. I like the idea of the kessils' though alot and the price is not ridiculous if they can put out enough juice for me so keep me updated if i had bought the kessil over the blackstar i would have it in a 2x3 cab with 30 plants u think it could handle that and still pull down an elbow?

heres a question now when they say dual spectrum about an induction bulb could they mean like its 3500k or 4k instead of 5500k or 2700k because that is right in the middle isnt that sort of like dual spectrum or is my thinking wrong because if i get one of these i want it to kick ass for veg and flower not just one because if im sticking with getting multiple lights for veg specific and flower specific its going to be kessil led's or what im using now


from what i understand 200w of induction lighting is = to about 800w of HID lighting me likey i want a 500w induction lamp LOL BEAST like 4 1000w hid's in one lamp YES hahaha

 

[Viagro]

If cost is an issue, and you want only one light, I think you should think about the bi-color plasma. They don't recommend it for seedlings, though. It rocks.

I've got the small Secret Jardin, and the next one up.

 

[shrigpiece]

I havn't posted in this thread for a while and do not grow with leds but have a understanding that other growers like alternative technology. Crimbo is a sales man and a asshole. Ya can't con a conman

 

[shrigpiece]

HA! Just realised i was following another thread. subbed

 

[Viagro]

heres a question now when they say dual spectrum about an induction bulb could they mean like its 3500k or 4k instead of 5500k or 2700k because that is right in the middle isnt that sort of like dual spectrum or is my thinking wrong because if i get one of these i want it to kick ass for veg and flower not just one because if im sticking with getting multiple lights for veg specific and flower specific its going to be kessil led's or what im using now

Those are distinct wavelengths and therefore colors.

If you read the info @ Kessil and Gotham hydro, and many places...Lumigrow has some interesting info, you'll understand.

I'm keeping my Blackstar. I'll use it in my bigger tent with a supplemental screw-in induction bulb.

edit: You don't want to get the Kessil H150w. Get the H150, if you get one..

 

[Viagro]

I havn't posted in this thread for a while and do not grow with leds but have a understanding that other growers like alternative technology. Crimbo is a sales man and a asshole. Ya can't con a conman

Hey Shrigpiece. How's it going?

I always figured you for a conman.

 

[dlively11]

I'd like to know more about these Plasma and induction lights. LEDs seem to be too limiting right now. They are cool and perfect for closet grows but for comerical guys we need something with a better output.

 

[Viagro]

I'd like to know more about these Plasma and induction lights. LEDs seem to be too limiting right now. They are cool and perfect for closet grows but for comerical guys we need something with a better output.

If you're a commercial guy, you might be interested in the $1200 (and up) plasma light at sea-of-green.com.