more than 1 watering to balance pH?

[allforit]

This is most Excellent! Yes! I learned 3 things!
1. Necessity is the mother of all inventions. Period.
2. Watered Estella with vinegar water. Read in another post that several people use regular white distilled vinegar, not just the cider apple vinegar, and that's what I have, the white stuff, so I pH 3/4 gallon of water to about, oh, I dont' remember lol. But I tested the runoff, and it's great! 6.2 to 6.4. Somewhere in there! So this means, my tester was working, and the pH was too high, and now, I think I fixed it!!
3. My pH tester works lol.
So, now that I have lowered my PH, do I have to do that again? Or is it really now all at 6.4 or so? What I mean is, does it take more than 1 watering with vinegar to actually lower the pH of the entire pot of soil? or did I just fix it???!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, I'm super uber dooper excited right now!!!!!!!!! If I just did what I think I did, I SAVED MY PLANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DaveCoulier]

Your soil PH wont stay at 6.4 after only one PH'd watering. Your water source, and nutrient source will affect your soils PH. If you have alkaline water, it will drive your soils PH up, and you will want to continue to PH your water to low 6's to counteract this. If you use Reverse Osmosis treated water, then you dont need to neutralize the alkalinity as its neutral, but it would still be ideal to PH your water to lower levels for greater nutrient absorption, but not absolutely required.

If your using Ammoniacal N based fertilizer, this will drive your PH down, while Nitrate N based fertilzers will drive your PH up over time.

I would suggest you contact your local Utility Board and ask them what the Alkalinity levels are. This could be your problem.

 

[allforit]

Yeah, I think the issue was my tap water. Over time, it build up a high pH, like 7.8, and I wasn't smart enough to counteract it. First grow. So I am using the triple osmosis water now, so that's good. I will start adding more nutes, FF BB, now that I know how to keep the pH level down. But for now, my pH should be what the runoff tested, right? Until the next watering?
And when I water, I will use some vinegar to pH it down to where it is now. Cause the triple water pH tests to about 7 to 7.2. So, I will need to drop that down a bit.

 

[allforit]

By the way, thanks for the reply DaveCoulier! Appreciate that!

 

[DaveCoulier]

Yeah, I think the issue was my tap water. Over time, it build up a high pH, like 7.8, and I wasn't smart enough to counteract it. First grow. So I am using the triple osmosis water now, so that's good. I will start adding more nutes, FF BB, now that I know how to keep the pH level down. But for now, my pH should be what the runoff tested, right? Until the next watering?
And when I water, I will use some vinegar to pH it down to where it is now. Cause the triple water pH tests to about 7 to 7.2. So, I will need to drop that down a bit.

I dont know the Guaranteed Analysis of FF BB off hand, but Im not quite sure it has enough Ammoniacal Nitrogen in it to keep soil PH low. Their Grow Big is about 50/50 A-N, and N-N, which will still drive PH down as A-N has a greater effect on soil PH than N-N.

I wouldn't increase your nutrients as your sole means of controlling PH. It helps, but its not really the way to get there as it could lead to excessive nutrients in the soil and cause other problems. Just stick with ph'ing your water down.

Your run-off should be a close approximation of your soils true PH, but Id have to dig for some info to be exactly sure. If your run-off is in low 6's, then your soil is good to go.

 

[cowboylogic]

I dont know the Guaranteed Analysis of FF BB off hand, but Im not quite sure it has enough Ammoniacal Nitrogen in it to keep soil PH low. Their Grow Big is about 50/50 A-N, and N-N, which will still drive PH down as A-N has a greater effect on soil PH than N-N.

I wouldn't increase your nutrients as your sole means of controlling PH. It helps, but its not really the way to get there as it could lead to excessive nutrients in the soil and cause other problems. Just stick with ph'ing your water down.

Your run-off should be a close approximation of your soils true PH, but Id have to dig for some info to be exactly sure. If your run-off is in low 6's, then your soil is good to go.

Using RO water and FF you will need to supplement magnesium for sure and probaly calcium also. The Big Bloom supplies some but not enough for most plants. And the Big Bloom is the 'PH buffer' for lack of a better term in the FF diet. I substitute CalMag for the Big Bloom when feeding and just use Big Bloom on watering days. Plus runoff ph is a pretty poor indicator of a mediums ph. Testing the soil itself is the only accurate way to know. Dolomite lime/and or worm castings are the great equalizers IMO.

 

[allforit]

DaveCoulier, thanks for the reply! I wasn't too clear on what I wrote last night lol. I was a bit out of it so to speak lol. But I was worried about using nutes when in this pH lockout because I was thinking it was going to just add to the problem, so I didn't use much. But now that I have it down, I will continue my regular feeding schedule. Not going to add more nutes to lower the pH.
cowboylogic, thanks for stopping by and replying! So, since I am using RO water, I assume it has all the calcium and mag. taken out of it, and the plant needs those micro nutes? Is there a good place online to buy the cal and mag.? I don't have any gardening stores in my area that I know of that are still open (cause winter) and none of the other stores seem to carry much at all for the garden, like Walmart. I will have to do some searching online I think to get those products.

 

[Purplekrunchie]

DaveCoulier, thanks for the reply! I wasn't too clear on what I wrote last night lol. I was a bit out of it so to speak lol. But I was worried about using nutes when in this pH lockout because I was thinking it was going to just add to the problem, so I didn't use much. But now that I have it down, I will continue my regular feeding schedule. Not going to add more nutes to lower the pH.
cowboylogic, thanks for stopping by and replying! So, since I am using RO water, I assume it has all the calcium and mag. taken out of it, and the plant needs those micro nutes? Is there a good place online to buy the cal and mag.? I don't have any gardening stores in my area that I know of that are still open (cause winter) and none of the other stores seem to carry much at all for the garden, like Walmart. I will have to do some searching online I think to get those products.

You don't have a hydro store anywhere near by? You could search online for some earth juice for hydro, or greensand for soil, which is an amazing product.

 

[cowboylogic]

Using RO water and FF you will need to supplement magnesium for sure and probaly calcium also. The Big Bloom supplies some but not enough for most plants. And the Big Bloom is the 'PH buffer' for lack of a better term in the FF diet. I substitute CalMag for the Big Bloom when feeding and just use Big Bloom on watering days. Plus runoff ph is a pretty poor indicator of a mediums ph. Testing the soil itself is the only accurate way to know. Dolomite lime/and or worm castings are the great equalizers IMO.

R/O water has just about every bit of magnesium stripped from it. And alot of the calcium. Just go to Ebay and get some Calmag or Magical. 1/4 tsp per gal waterings and 1/2 tsp per gal feedings should fill the gap. And why you are shopping get some powdered dolomite and castings. You will be glad you did.........

 

[allforit]

Thanks, cowboylogic! I will do that. I like the idea of using the RO water, simply because I know it's clean. My tap water has massive calcium deposits in it, I get little white rocks that come out of the faucet, so even though the pH of the water is 6.8, which is not too bad, the calcium in it is too high I believe. So trying the RO water for now.

 

[Purplekrunchie]

Thanks, cowboylogic! I will do that. I like the idea of using the RO water, simply because I know it's clean. My tap water has massive calcium deposits in it, I get little white rocks that come out of the faucet, so even though the pH of the water is 6.8, which is not too bad, the calcium in it is too high I believe. So trying the RO water for now.

That's because your water is hard I believe, hard water has lime, and where there is lime there is calcium. At least I always believed that, though I could be a little off.

 

[cowboylogic]

That's because your water is hard I believe, hard water has lime, and where there is lime there is calcium. At least I always believed that, though I could be a little off.

You are correct. Lime is a source of calcium. And too much can be a bad thing. One thing is for certain, NEVER use water from the hot tap. Hot watertanks and lines contain 'calcified lime' just a bit can cause irreversable ph issues in your medium.

 

[DaveCoulier]

Using RO water and FF you will need to supplement magnesium for sure and probaly calcium also. The Big Bloom supplies some but not enough for most plants. And the Big Bloom is the 'PH buffer' for lack of a better term in the FF diet. I substitute CalMag for the Big Bloom when feeding and just use Big Bloom on watering days. Plus runoff ph is a pretty poor indicator of a mediums ph. Testing the soil itself is the only accurate way to know. Dolomite lime/and or worm castings are the great equalizers IMO.

I dont believe it is as poor as you think. It is a commonly accepted way to measure soil PH by many Universities Horticultural Departments.

This excerpt is from NCSU:

Tipping the container 30 to 60 minutes after irrigation of containers provides a true reading of EC and pH levels in the container solution available to plant. It is important to remember that the PourThru extraction procedure provides an average of EC and pH concentrations in the container.

While the Saturated Medium Extract procedure would be best, how many of us are going to take a sample of soil from our rootballs and send them off to a lab to be tested? Not I. The PourThru method works quite well, and its what Ill stick with.

That link is a good read for anyone wishing to improve their ability to measure soil PH & EC.

 

[allforit]

I have always used the cold side of the tap for my water. So I guess that is sorta good lol. I am going to take pics of her tonight, if she survived. I am on pins and needles here all day. It's dark for her, and I can't check on her till 7pm. I have been simply waiting all day for 7pm. I want to know if she is starting to thrive now that the pH is better, or if she died. The waiting is killing me.

 

[allforit]

I just want to thank everyone for their input on this thread. Thank you!

 

[allforit]

She is alive!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALLLLIIIIIIIIVVVVVEEEEEEE!!! Yes!! I can see that her leaves are darker green, the buds have grown in the last 12 hours, and she look and smells more alive. Her pistles are standing straight up at attention. Awesome! Here she is:

View attachment 1333383View attachment 1333384View attachment 1333385View attachment 1333386View attachment 1333387View attachment 1333388View attachment 1333389View attachment 1333390

 

[cowboylogic]

I dont believe it is as poor as you think. It is a commonly accepted way to measure soil PH by many Universities Horticultural Departments.

This excerpt is from NCSU:

Tipping the container 30 to 60 minutes after irrigation of containers provides a true reading of EC and pH levels in the container solution available to plant. It is important to remember that the PourThru extraction procedure provides an average of EC and pH concentrations in the container.

While the Saturated Medium Extract procedure would be best, how many of us are going to take a sample of soil from our rootballs and send them off to a lab to be tested? Not I. The PourThru method works quite well, and its what Ill stick with.
That link is a good read for anyone wishing to improve their ability to measure soil PH & EC.

I am a farmer and have the ability to test my soil and have done so to compare with runoff readings many times. Runoff has never been close to the actual measurement. But as shown above they say to let the water stand in the bottom of the pot for about an hour, then drain and test. That would make a more accurate measurement. But how many actually do? Most pour some water thru and measure. If done correctly it can be pretty accurate. Unfortunately most dont and chase an issue that does not exist. The Great White Buffalo..........Thats why I use so many castings in my medium mix. They have the ability to raise or lower a mediums ph keeping it virtually nuetral throughout the grow. I rarely check ph at al anymore. Water or medium.

 

[*BUDS]

man ,why are you asking , "or did i just fix it?".how the hell do we know? u got the plant and the new ph reading on your working meter. Try not to use vinegar , much kinder to your soil use ph up or down from hydro shop. And you can get near ph 7 in soil. 6 for hydro.

 

[allforit]

*BUDS, thanks for stopping by! I will try not to use vinegar in the future, I need to order some plant pH up/down from the net. The closest store to me that has anything right now related to plant growing is almost 200 miles away lol. It's a hydro store in the big city. So, I will order some things today off the net. Got to go searching for a quality website.

 

[DaveCoulier]

Allforit, is this your first plant? Im sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your plant is so far gone she is going to struggle to the finish line. You've had a severe macronutrient deficiency if not multiple ones going on for awhile it appears. Im glad you're phing your water now, but it may not be the only reason your plant has lived a hard life. I know the attraction one develops to their plants, so please dont feel Im attacking your little lady . I wish you the best grow on your next lady.