TedKorzenowski
Member
just use some matte white paint d00der
Mirrors.. no good.... Seriously ...???
- Thread starter SimplySmokin
- Start date
noxiously
Well-Known Member
Use this for example:
Photography, when you go to get a portrait taken, they use those really bright lights, but they are inside of a soft box. On the front of that soft box is a thin white material that "diffuses" the hard light so it doesn't create "hot spots", especially on a persons fore head. Now, with photography, you can use a mirror to help reflect light towards your subject, your subject will be lit up, but you won't get as much "coverage" of that person as you would with a soft box, i.e. "Diffused Light".
Photography, when you go to get a portrait taken, they use those really bright lights, but they are inside of a soft box. On the front of that soft box is a thin white material that "diffuses" the hard light so it doesn't create "hot spots", especially on a persons fore head. Now, with photography, you can use a mirror to help reflect light towards your subject, your subject will be lit up, but you won't get as much "coverage" of that person as you would with a soft box, i.e. "Diffused Light".
Brick Top
New Member
If it has a pebbled/textured surface it will be much better for reflectivity because it will not only be highly reflective but it will provide a diffuse reflection.
Ever notice how the highest quality reflective hoods all have a pebbled/textured surface? The polished aluminum gives the high degree of reflectivity but the pebbled texture of the surface is what causes the reflected light rays to spread out evenly resulting in an even/equal distribution of light rays to the plants beneath the reflective hood.
That is what reflectivity in regards to plant growth is all about.
wannaquickee
Well-Known Member
i clean every inch of my room as much as i can and when i use mylar i clean tha too
Brick Top
New Member
Choosing the right surface for the walls of your grow room is very important, as up to 40% of your total yield comes from the edge, and the right wall surface can increase the amount of light those plants receive by up to 30%! Artificial lighting diminishes exponentially with distance, so it is important to ‘contain’ as much of this light as possible, and direct it accordingly. Reflective surfaces also help illuminate the lower portions of the garden, providing lower buds with light and heat energy.
To get the best results with your light and walls, it is important to get the walls as close as possible to your garden to ensure the least amount of light is wasted. As a caveat, the percentages provided are only useful as a general guideline, as they present the range of reflectivity of the particular surfaces. The high percentage presents the best possible circumstances for that material (for example a 99% reflectivity rating for Mylar sheeting would be under ideal conditions - no creases, completely flat, no discoloration, etc).
The best way to determine how well your grow room walls reflect light would be to purchase a light meter and measure your light directly; then take an opaque board and hold it a few inches off one of your walls with the light meter below the board in such a fashion that the light reflects off the wall and onto the light meter. You can then compare the difference between the two and determine a percentage from those numbers, the closer the two numbers are, the better your wall reflects light. It is important that in both measurements, your light meter is the same distance from the light, otherwise your results will be skewed.
Also important to note is that radiant light energy refers to electromagnetic (EM) radiation with a wavelength between 400-700 nanometers (nm) and radiant heat energy correlates to EM radiation with a wavelength between 800-2000nm.
Listed below are some of the most commonly used materials used for grow room walls:
Foylon:
A more durable version of Mylar, made of spun polyester fabric and reinforced with foil laminate. Foylon is resistant to most solutions, won't tear or fade, and can be wiped or washed clean.
A great solution for growers who are interested in long term use, and though it may be slightly more expensive than Mylar, its durability will more than make up for its cost. It has the ability to reflect about 95% of the light and approximately 85% of the heat energy, so a good ventilation system should be used in conjunction with Folyon.
A recommended method to attach Foylon to the walls would be using Velcro, as it makes taking it down for cleaning much easier and reduces the risk of tearing, creasing or bending it. If this is used for your walls, making sure you get it flush with the wall with no pockets of air between it and the wall to prevent hot spots.
Mylar:
A highly reflective polyester film that comes in varying thickness, the most common being 1 and 2 mm thick. The 2mm thick Mylar while not quite as durable as the Foylon, is fairly rugged. The 1mm thick Mylar tears fairly easily, so taking it down for cleaning is quite difficult without damaging it in the process. Both types of Mylar are able to reflect approximately 92-97% reflective, giving it the potential to be more reflective than Foylon, but because Foylon is more easily cleaned without damaging it as well as it being harder to crease, Foylon usually ends up being slightly more reflective. Important to note is that Mylar reflects radiant heat energy just as well as Foylon (around 85%), so proper ventilation is necessary if Mylar is used in your grow room. Attaching this to walls can be done in a similar fashion as Foylon, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hot spots in your room. The 1mm thick Mylar stands a fair chance of being creased or ripped in the process unfortunately, even if Velcro is used to attach to the walls.
C3 anti-detection film:
A specialized type of Mylar that exhibits the same properties as the 2mm thick Mylar, but in addition to reflecting approximately 92-97% of the light, it also is 90% infrared proof, making your grow room all but invisible to IR scanning. This can also be attached in the same manner as Foylon or Mylar, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hot spots in your room.
Flat white paint:
Self explanatory; a great option for large grow rooms or for people who are interested in a low maintenance wall. Flat white paint has the ability to reflect between 75-85% of the light, and does not create hot spots. Adding a fungicide is recommended when painting.
Glossy and eggshell whites not reflect light as efficiently as flat white. Semi-gloss paint for example, only has the ability to reflect between 55-60% of the light. Also important to remember when using paint is that any smears or blemishes on the surface take away from how reflective the wall is so care should be taken to avoid marking or staining the walls. Titanium white paint is very reflective; however it is usually only used on reflectors due to its high cost.
Elastomere paint
A rubberized roofing paint with 90% reflection. Good for grow boxes. Mildew resistant. Highly reflective.
Kool Seal White Elastomeric Roof Coating ~ $15.00 (1 Gallon)
Ultra high reflectivity
Forms a rubber-like blanket that expands and contracts
Adheres to almost any surface (very good on wood and metal)
Available @ Lowe's Home Improvement
White/Black plastic (also known as panda plastic or "poly"):
"Poly" is useful if you are setting up a temporary grow room or don’t want to damage the walls. Poly is easily cleaned.
The purpose of the black side is to not allow any light to pass through the plastic, which ensures your dark cycle remains dark. The white side is 75-90% reflective. Choose a 6 "mill" thickness of poly for maximum light blockage and durability.
If this plastic is put too close to the light, you will obviously melt it so be careful!. Panda plastic does not create hot spots. Poly can be attached to the walls by using carpenter’s nails or using tape glue or similar means. This can be used as a cheap alternative to Mylar if painting your grow room is out of the question.
Polystyrene Foam Sheeting (more commonly known as Styrofoam):
This is excellent for harsh environment grow rooms (your attic for example), provided you have a good ventilation system and a way to keep the temperatures from rising too high (an a/c unit or similar) as it is an excellent insulator.
It is also a great material for use in a temporary setup or for use as a "traveling reflector" on a light mover, where weight is a concern. It is approximately 75-85% light reflective so it is comparable to using a flat white paint. Foam will not create hot spots. Rigid foam can be purchased in sheets, and can be used as a free standing wall or can be taped, glued or nailed to the wall, the last generally being the most successful method.
Emergency Blankets:
These are ultra thin polyester blankets that are sold in most camping stores and are constructed of a single layer of polyester film that is covered with a layer of vapor deposited aluminum.
It is not very effective at reflecting light because it is so thin. Holding it between you and a light source, many small holes are noticed at the intersections of creases and the entire blanket is translucent to begin with, this coupled with the many creases that are in it when you purchase it takes away a significant amount of it reflectivity. It is very easily creased as well which also detracts from its ability to reflect light. And while it is reflects nearly 90% of radiant heat energy, it is only able to reflect around 70% of the light.
The largest advantage of using this type of material is that it is very cheap and therefore easily replaced. Emergency blankets can create hot spots if not attached flush to the wall so it is important that no air gaps exist between it and your supporting wall. The easiest way to attach this is to use tape (Aluminum or metal tape is recommended), as it tears very easily once it is cut or punctured.
Aluminum Foil:
Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective - if used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hot spots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting. Attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is questionable.
To get the best results with your light and walls, it is important to get the walls as close as possible to your garden to ensure the least amount of light is wasted. As a caveat, the percentages provided are only useful as a general guideline, as they present the range of reflectivity of the particular surfaces. The high percentage presents the best possible circumstances for that material (for example a 99% reflectivity rating for Mylar sheeting would be under ideal conditions - no creases, completely flat, no discoloration, etc).
The best way to determine how well your grow room walls reflect light would be to purchase a light meter and measure your light directly; then take an opaque board and hold it a few inches off one of your walls with the light meter below the board in such a fashion that the light reflects off the wall and onto the light meter. You can then compare the difference between the two and determine a percentage from those numbers, the closer the two numbers are, the better your wall reflects light. It is important that in both measurements, your light meter is the same distance from the light, otherwise your results will be skewed.
Also important to note is that radiant light energy refers to electromagnetic (EM) radiation with a wavelength between 400-700 nanometers (nm) and radiant heat energy correlates to EM radiation with a wavelength between 800-2000nm.
Listed below are some of the most commonly used materials used for grow room walls:
Foylon:
A more durable version of Mylar, made of spun polyester fabric and reinforced with foil laminate. Foylon is resistant to most solutions, won't tear or fade, and can be wiped or washed clean.
A great solution for growers who are interested in long term use, and though it may be slightly more expensive than Mylar, its durability will more than make up for its cost. It has the ability to reflect about 95% of the light and approximately 85% of the heat energy, so a good ventilation system should be used in conjunction with Folyon.
A recommended method to attach Foylon to the walls would be using Velcro, as it makes taking it down for cleaning much easier and reduces the risk of tearing, creasing or bending it. If this is used for your walls, making sure you get it flush with the wall with no pockets of air between it and the wall to prevent hot spots.
Mylar:
A highly reflective polyester film that comes in varying thickness, the most common being 1 and 2 mm thick. The 2mm thick Mylar while not quite as durable as the Foylon, is fairly rugged. The 1mm thick Mylar tears fairly easily, so taking it down for cleaning is quite difficult without damaging it in the process. Both types of Mylar are able to reflect approximately 92-97% reflective, giving it the potential to be more reflective than Foylon, but because Foylon is more easily cleaned without damaging it as well as it being harder to crease, Foylon usually ends up being slightly more reflective. Important to note is that Mylar reflects radiant heat energy just as well as Foylon (around 85%), so proper ventilation is necessary if Mylar is used in your grow room. Attaching this to walls can be done in a similar fashion as Foylon, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hot spots in your room. The 1mm thick Mylar stands a fair chance of being creased or ripped in the process unfortunately, even if Velcro is used to attach to the walls.
C3 anti-detection film:
A specialized type of Mylar that exhibits the same properties as the 2mm thick Mylar, but in addition to reflecting approximately 92-97% of the light, it also is 90% infrared proof, making your grow room all but invisible to IR scanning. This can also be attached in the same manner as Foylon or Mylar, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hot spots in your room.
Flat white paint:
Self explanatory; a great option for large grow rooms or for people who are interested in a low maintenance wall. Flat white paint has the ability to reflect between 75-85% of the light, and does not create hot spots. Adding a fungicide is recommended when painting.
Glossy and eggshell whites not reflect light as efficiently as flat white. Semi-gloss paint for example, only has the ability to reflect between 55-60% of the light. Also important to remember when using paint is that any smears or blemishes on the surface take away from how reflective the wall is so care should be taken to avoid marking or staining the walls. Titanium white paint is very reflective; however it is usually only used on reflectors due to its high cost.
Elastomere paint
A rubberized roofing paint with 90% reflection. Good for grow boxes. Mildew resistant. Highly reflective.
Kool Seal White Elastomeric Roof Coating ~ $15.00 (1 Gallon)
Ultra high reflectivity
Forms a rubber-like blanket that expands and contracts
Adheres to almost any surface (very good on wood and metal)
Available @ Lowe's Home Improvement
White/Black plastic (also known as panda plastic or "poly"):
"Poly" is useful if you are setting up a temporary grow room or don’t want to damage the walls. Poly is easily cleaned.
The purpose of the black side is to not allow any light to pass through the plastic, which ensures your dark cycle remains dark. The white side is 75-90% reflective. Choose a 6 "mill" thickness of poly for maximum light blockage and durability.
If this plastic is put too close to the light, you will obviously melt it so be careful!. Panda plastic does not create hot spots. Poly can be attached to the walls by using carpenter’s nails or using tape glue or similar means. This can be used as a cheap alternative to Mylar if painting your grow room is out of the question.
Polystyrene Foam Sheeting (more commonly known as Styrofoam):
This is excellent for harsh environment grow rooms (your attic for example), provided you have a good ventilation system and a way to keep the temperatures from rising too high (an a/c unit or similar) as it is an excellent insulator.
It is also a great material for use in a temporary setup or for use as a "traveling reflector" on a light mover, where weight is a concern. It is approximately 75-85% light reflective so it is comparable to using a flat white paint. Foam will not create hot spots. Rigid foam can be purchased in sheets, and can be used as a free standing wall or can be taped, glued or nailed to the wall, the last generally being the most successful method.
Emergency Blankets:
These are ultra thin polyester blankets that are sold in most camping stores and are constructed of a single layer of polyester film that is covered with a layer of vapor deposited aluminum.
It is not very effective at reflecting light because it is so thin. Holding it between you and a light source, many small holes are noticed at the intersections of creases and the entire blanket is translucent to begin with, this coupled with the many creases that are in it when you purchase it takes away a significant amount of it reflectivity. It is very easily creased as well which also detracts from its ability to reflect light. And while it is reflects nearly 90% of radiant heat energy, it is only able to reflect around 70% of the light.
The largest advantage of using this type of material is that it is very cheap and therefore easily replaced. Emergency blankets can create hot spots if not attached flush to the wall so it is important that no air gaps exist between it and your supporting wall. The easiest way to attach this is to use tape (Aluminum or metal tape is recommended), as it tears very easily once it is cut or punctured.
Aluminum Foil:
Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective - if used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hot spots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting. Attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is questionable.
Japanfreak
New Member
Wow, google work at it's best
Brick Top
New Member
Actually I have that piece saved to Word because the reflective material question is asked so often.
But it is always people like you, the ineducable, who hate Google with a passion because there is always irrefutable indisputable proof to be found that always proves you, and all others like you, too be wrong 100% of the time.
The reason to use proven factual information rather than for someone to word it their way is when put into your own words it can be claimed to be an opinion or a belief rather than a fact. But facts are facts and they will always remain facts ... and the ineducable, such as yourself, HATE that with every fiber of their being because no matter how many times you express your personal opinion or personal belief it will never transform so much as one single fact into being incorrect.
Burger Boss
Well-Known Member
Wow, a bit of a cheap shot! You infer that "google" is a bad thing? Perhaps you would share YOUR source's of information currently used to educated yourself.
It seems that Brick took some time to gather pertinent information, and to belittle his methods is rather petty!
So please offer us some reasonable alternative information that would lead us to believe Brick is full of it and a correct target of scorn.
Japanfreak
New Member
I don't hate google, it's a tool a lot like you.
Japanfreak
New Member
Books for the most part. But I don't think google is bad, I think people who say stupid shit like Mirrors are really bad and then try to back it up with google are bad when instead you could just ask a person who actually uses mirrors about their experience.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
Your life must be pretty small to have to cyber stalk someone who's biggest offence was to crush your e-rep on a message forum...
Japanfreak
New Member
He has a free mirror
Japanfreak
New Member
You must be a fucking moron to think I give a shit what some punk on a pot board says. Oh wait, am I playing the insult game wrong? Fuck off. Brick should keep his trap shut, speak from experience or don't speak at all.
wannaquickee
Well-Known Member
i seen the end is near for you my friend. maybe on to the next one soon?
Japanfreak
New Member
experience. It's an amazing thing.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
It is ironic that you dont care what I say but you follow Brick around like a little dog yapping loudly while providing no real content in your posts.
He speaks from experience. Frequently it is not his own written words but usually relevant and useful to the thread at hand.
You provide nothing but aggravation...
Who do you think is more useful on a growing forum?
Japanfreak
New Member
I don't follow brick, I just happen to see him giving opinions in 2 threads about things he doesn't actually do himself. Kind of like hearing a kid talk about sex and googling up a playboy as proof he knows his shit.
Didn't Brick up to recently claim he never grew?
Didn't Brick up to recently claim he never grew?
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
To the best of my knowledge he said he has been growing since 1972. Which means that he has been growing for longer than you have been alive more than likely. Or you are a bit childish for 40.
noxiously
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised this is still being argued over. Japanfreak, mirrors can, and have been used as a reflective source to grow plants. But, they are not the best suited material for the job. Experience does speak for itself, but not all experience is the right experience. Senators have more experience at governing than I do, but it doesn't mean they are doing it the right way, or the best way.
Again, mirrors are more reflective than mylar, but they are not capable of distributing that light in the best way for a plant. Mirrors do in fact create "hot spots", if you read my post about photography a "hot spot" doesn't have to mean a certain spot is hot, it just means there is a smaller particular spot that gets more light than the rest of an area. Diffused light can generate much more "needed light" than a mirror because a mirror doesn't diffuse, it bounces direct beams.
Again, mirrors are more reflective than mylar, but they are not capable of distributing that light in the best way for a plant. Mirrors do in fact create "hot spots", if you read my post about photography a "hot spot" doesn't have to mean a certain spot is hot, it just means there is a smaller particular spot that gets more light than the rest of an area. Diffused light can generate much more "needed light" than a mirror because a mirror doesn't diffuse, it bounces direct beams.
Japanfreak
New Member
Hey man, if you want to suck his dick be my guest.