It's A Fuct World

[Al B. Fuct]

sorry folks not sure what this thread is about now please forgive me, i see al b here and rememberd my cuttings question
AL B. in your rockwool sticky, it looked like you were putting cuttings directly into upside down 3 inch "transplanting cubes" i have never seen anyone do it like that before is there any advantage to that, rather than using the 1 or 2 inch seed cubes that then insert into the correct transplanting cubes (big hole/small hole) once roots show through the seed cubes

Please go back and review the cloning thread. All specifications are detailed. In short, I use 40mm plastic-wrapped RW cubes for cloning. The clones in 40mm cubes, once rooted, are then planted into 175mm dia pots of Fytocell (with 25mm of RW floc packed into the bottoms of the pots to keep Fytocell crumbs from escaping the drain holes).

 

[hellraizer30]

sorry AL for the grammer, runs is what I thought I said lol, so you think the trash can plastic/pvc type res could cause this?
and I research that line of nutes and cant come up with a answer to organic or non organic theres just very lttle info on it out there.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

sorry AL for the grammer, runs is what I thought I said lol, so you think the trash can plastic/pvc type res could cause this?
and I research that line of nutes and cant come up with a answer to organic or non organic theres just very lttle info on it out there.

No, I don't think the plastic in the trash can is causing the problem- it's really just a last ditch guess to explain what's happening- it's one of the few remaining variables.

If you can't find out if the nutes are organic or not, mix up a small amount of nute solution (about a litre) and add some H2O2 to it. If it fizzes, the nutes are organic. If you do determine that the nutes are organic, change to a good quality inorganic nutrient.

 

[skunkd0c]

sorry AL B its been a while since i seen the larger cubes 10cm (4 inch) from the picture in your rockwool sticky they look huge i normaly use the 2.5cm (one inch) cubes once roots show out the bottom of those 1 inch seed cubes i place them in the larger 7.5 cm transplanting cubes .. and place them on the nft system ..

i always try to use as little rockwool as possible as i only realy use it to give the plants a base to sit on so i go for the 3inch transplanting cubes

your picture looked like you are using the transplanting cubes to root the clones instead of the seed cubes that was my only query
as those larger blocks absorb much more water and take longer for the roots to show through than the much smaller 1 inch (2.5cm) cubes i wonderd why you would do that, but if you are using the seed cubes or feel you dont need them my mistake

 

[Al B. Fuct]

sorry AL B its been a while since i seen the larger cubes 10cm (4 inch) from the picture in your rockwool sticky they look huge i normaly use the 2.5cm (one inch) cubes once roots show out the bottom of those 1 inch seed cubes i place them in the larger 7.5 cm transplanting cubes .. and place them on the nft system ..

i always try to use as little rockwool as possible as i only realy use it to give the plants a base to sit on so i go for the 3inch transplanting cubes

your picture looked like you are using the transplanting cubes to root the clones instead of the seed cubes that was my only query
as those larger blocks absorb much more water and take longer for the roots to show through than the much smaller 1 inch (2.5cm) cubes i wonderd why you would do that, but if you are using the seed cubes or feel you dont need them my mistake

I use 40mm cubes because 25mm cubes are too prone to drying out unexpectedly. My cubes don't look so small when you consider taht the clones I cut are about 8-9" tall on average.

 

[skunkd0c]

yeh that makes sense , those juicy thick steams on your clones would split the 1inch cubes in half most likely they do that with some of my clones which are smaller than yours i wrap a rubber band round them to keep the little cube together

i normaly take much smaller cuttings about 4 inch or so, i have taken larger cuttings 8-9 inch but found that after a few weeks of veg the smaller 4 inch cuttings had caught up with the larger ones in size anyway
well thanks for clearing that point up AL B .. peace to you

 

[hellraizer30]

No, I don't think the plastic in the trash can is causing the problem- it's really just a last ditch guess to explain what's happening- it's one of the few remaining variables.

If you can't find out if the nutes are organic or not, mix up a small amount of nute solution (about a litre) and add some H2O2 to it. If it fizzes, the nutes are organic. If you do determine that the nutes are organic, change to a good quality inorganic nutrient.

ok will do. didnt know that was a way of finding out the different too. thanks AL

 

[Al B. Fuct]

yeh that makes sense , those juicy thick steams on your clones would split the 1inch cubes in half most likely they do that with some of my clones which are smaller than yours i wrap a rubber band round them to keep the little cube together

Don't put a rubber band around RW cubes. This will crush the material and remove all the airspaces from it. Use larger cubes. The 40mm cubes are ideal. Larger ones tend to stay wet too long and cause stem rot.

 

[skunkd0c]

its not often i put a band round the cube although ive had no issues when doing so i would imagine you would have to wrap the band round extreemly tight to smash plant materal and restrict air supply. have no fear i wouldnt do such a silly thing

the smaller cubes suit me fine i am able to see roots poping out of the bottom of the smaller cubes in around 9 -12 days, i dont even like using the larger 2 inch cubes, they are too big,

using the transplanting blocks to root clones in would take up way too much propagator space, i havent had issues with the 1inch cubes drying out .. myself

taking cuttings its a very simple process for me,
i take the cuttings from the mother plants make the final cut under water to avoid air bubbles , dip them in clonex, pop them in a 1 inch wet seed cube put them in the wet propagator .. (closed vents) leave them for 3 days, then open the vents every once in a while, and spray them occasionaly with water only , making sure the humidity is kept high, i replace the water every 2-3 days, after 9-12 days they root ..

this method has worked for me for about 15 years .. i do like to keep things as simple as i posibly can ..

i do recall when i first started i followed the rule book to the letter i would ph the rockwool first and "condition" it with formlex or some other condition agent to lower the ph of the rockwool.and add some nurtrients i would even spray my cuttings with nutriants and even apply some antifungal just incase, but with experance and a little lazyness i later found all this to be unnecessary

if your 1 inch cubes were drying out unexpectedly , it perhaps might of been becuase your propagator vents were open for too long, .. if anything i find they can stay too wet and i will gently squeeze excess water out of the bottom of them, making sure not to smash plant materal when squeezing ofcourse

 

[hellraizer30]

well AL I me and my buddy tried it and no fiz so I to a pure organic he had laying around and we tryed it in that and no fiz so im confused?

 

[Al B. Fuct]

its not often i put a band round the cube although ive had no issues when doing so i would imagine you would have to wrap the band round extreemly tight to smash plant materal and restrict air supply. have no fear i wouldnt do such a silly thing

You'd be surprised how little force it takes to deform RW cubes. However...

the smaller cubes suit me fine i am able to see roots poping out of the bottom of the smaller cubes in around 9 -12 days, i dont even like using the larger 2 inch cubes, they are too big,

If you're getting roots in no more than about 10 days, it's working OK. I frequently get roots out of the bottoms of 40mm cubes in 5-6 days.

using the transplanting blocks to root clones in would take up way too much propagator space, i havent had issues with the 1inch cubes drying out .. myself

OK.

taking cuttings its a very simple process for me,
i take the cuttings from the mother plants make the final cut under water to avoid air bubbles , dip them in clonex, pop them in a 1 inch wet seed cube put them in the wet propagator .. (closed vents) leave them for 3 days, then open the vents every once in a while, and spray them occasionaly with water only , making sure the humidity is kept high, i replace the water every 2-3 days, after 9-12 days they root ..

Cutting stems under water isn't necessary. Some old-school florists have used that technique for cut flowers (knowing of course that they're not trying to get cut flowers to set root), but unless the water is completely sterile, it can be a problem when propagating by cuttings.

I prefer to cut stems with a scalpel that has been sterilised with methylated spirit (aka denatured alcohol), which is then flamed off with a candle. Any alcohol left on the blade will damage capillaries in the cutting and will cause leaves to go crispy dry in about 8-12h.

I also don't use humidomes nor mist clones. If there's enough water uptake through the stem cut, it's not necessary. If clones wilt, then the stem cut was not sterile or the medium is being kept too wet and in either case, the stem tip has rotted. Rotten tissue won't conduct water up the stem and the cutting will wilt. Upside is you can recut the stem and try again with a fresh cube.

I generally recommend against use of gel-type cloning aids. First, gels can harbour pathogens between doing batches of cuttings if stems are dipped into the main container instead of into a small, separate container that a small amount of gel has been decanted into- excess gel that has had stems dipped into it should be discarded. The main container of gel should be refrigerated once opened. Second, gels tend to rinse off after the clones have been watered a few times, while rooting powders form a paste which tends to stay put, even after numerous waterings,.

this method has worked for me for about 15 years .. i do like to keep things as simple as i posibly can ..

i do recall when i first started i followed the rule book to the letter i would ph the rockwool first and "condition" it with formlex or some other condition agent to lower the ph of the rockwool.and add some nurtrients i would even spray my cuttings with nutriants and even apply some antifungal just incase, but with experance and a little lazyness i later found all this to be unnecessary

Quite so. Nothing other than soaking the cubes for 24h in plain water is really necessary.

if your 1 inch cubes were drying out unexpectedly , it perhaps might of been becuase your propagator vents were open for too long, .. if anything i find they can stay too wet and i will gently squeeze excess water out of the bottom of them, making sure not to smash plant materal when squeezing ofcourse

I don't use 'propagators,' never have- and RW cubes should never, ever be squeezed, even gently.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

well AL I me and my buddy tried it and no fiz so I to a pure organic he had laying around and we tryed it in that and no fiz so im confused?

heh, the 'pure organic' wasn't. If a nutrient is truly organically sourced, it'll fizz when H2O2 is added.

 

[hellraizer30]

heh, the 'pure organic' wasn't. If a nutrient is truly organically sourced, it'll fizz when H2O2 is added.

ok well I guess we will just run the process of elimination and if there aint a way to stop it then out goes the NSR. you got any clue why
a recycleing system doent cause this? becouse hes running both types and only the drain to waist does it.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Well, now you know why I suggested the plastic trash can might be a problem! It's one of the few variables between the system that has problems and the ones that don't.

Bear in mind that even a drain to waste system's rez tank needs to be dosed with H2O2, 50% grade @ 1ml/L every 3-4 days.

 

[zem]

hellraizer i've had murky water before, it happened when i used h2o2 with recycled grorocks that were not well flushed. i found a solution to it by flushing with water and h2o2 then dumping res and flushing again until it was clear again. i think it's the h2o2 breaking dead matter and stuff in your medium which is a good thing itself. just need to flush it better next time. hope this helps

 

[Al B. Fuct]

zem, the system he's having a problem with is a run-to-waste, not recirculating system.

 

[zem]

zem, the system he's having a problem with is a run-to-waste, not recirculating system.

right Al, didn't pick up on it, sounds strange, could be something something stuck on the res or something as you said. anyway i gota Q of myself i want to throw in here

i always preferred flood/drain better than top feeding, but for the sake of practicality, it would be cool if i could do a top feeding system and still have similar results as flood/drain. do you think top feeding could give as good results as flood/drain? i always liked the how the drain sucks in fresh air every time i water, i guess nothing can replace this... what do you think? thanks Al

 

[Al B. Fuct]

There's several watering methods that perform better than flood systems. Aeroponics & NFT can get quite a lot more oxygen to the roots. However, aero systems are a pain in the ass to maintain and NFT systems sacrifice plant mobility. Flood systems are stupidly simple to set up and maintain and are highly reliable due to that simplicity. If you can't grow dope in a flood system, you can't grow dope.

 

[zem]

hey Al i get what you're saying, i grew using flood/drain and DWC and i got great results, just that in my next setup, it will be much simpler to have a top feeding system because i'm planning to go vertical and having them in poles is simpler than having flood/drain trays at different heights, thats why i wanted to know if a top feeding system can perform equally or similarly to a flood/drain...

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Top feeding systems are generally known as drip systems. These use dripper aperture heads that have a tendency to clog with nute salts.

Vertical gardens are ambitious. And complex.

Lemme tell ya something about growing dope: it's a hell of a lot of fun for a few years... then it becomes work. There will come a day when you just don't want to work so hard. Simple systems, without a lot of plumbing and hoohah to maintain and clean, will serve you better in the long run.