2010 #1 - Indoor Coco-Perlite Hindu Kush & Hailley's Comet 400w

[del66666]

if you dont get the nutes right it will be smaller, start them off in a very small pot of soil then from that go in coco, or get proper nutes aimed at new seedligs, practice makes perfect, i got a couple of crap 1s in coco and some really good ones.

 

[del66666]

giving to much nutes can be serious if really over done or plant is young,

 

[asaph]

giving to much nutes can be serious if really over done or plant is young,

the thing about this whole thread is, i never gave them any nutes to begin with. and i've grown other plants in it with no burns.
this seedling is young and may die because of this.

this could be because the bag of soil was standing open in the rain for two three weeks. perhaps time released ferts were released in this time. or because the strain i'm growing (hindu kush) cannot handle the nutes in the soil. i can't think of anything else.

 

[del66666]

all i can say is nothing is looking to sick yet, with coco you have to feed at every watering.

 

[asaph]

thanks man. i hope to Jah you are right. peace.

 

[del66666]

strange that nobody else jumped in, must have confused them. coco really is a great way to grow, just takes practice

 

[asaph]

strange that nobody else jumped in, must have confused them. coco really is a great way to grow, just takes practice

like i said (here or somewhere else), i think it's all karma.

my hope right now is that despite the delay and the sad looks (wilty), the coco boys and girls will make it to vegging, and then i can have maybe some more ability to maneuver and try stuff.

 

[asaph]

time for a regular journal update

the grow is in a crisis, in my mind at least.

the coco plants are not growing so well. they're flat, small and kind of wilty. the soil plants are growing much nicer in comparison - but they have shown a small nute burn in the tip of their first bladed leaves. This is also a major concern for me.

I'm gradually starting to feed the guys in coco very lightly, with up to 240 ppm so far, hoping for an improvement and working my way up the ppm in the next days.

I'm still at a loss about the soil - I have no idea what's wrong with it, and why i got this symptom. I dunno if I should flush it, or what.

The grow crisis is adjoining a life crisis - i'm having a very hard time with everything, really. There may be a great tide coming up. I may have to shut down the grow op, at least temporarily, in most part due to me failing so badly.

i still hope that i can somehow pull it off. not all hope is lost.

 

[smoke n strum]

time for a regular journal update

the grow is in a crisis, in my mind at least.

the coco plants are not growing so well. they're flat, small and kind of wilty. the soil plants are growing much nicer in comparison - but they have shown a small nute burn in the tip of their first bladed leaves. This is also a major concern for me.

I'm gradually starting to feed the guys in coco very lightly, with up to 240 ppm so far, hoping for an improvement and working my way up the ppm in the next days.

I'm still at a loss about the soil - I have no idea what's wrong with it, and why i got this symptom. I dunno if I should flush it, or what.

The grow crisis is adjoining a life crisis - i'm having a very hard time with everything, really. There may be a great tide coming up. I may have to shut down the grow op, at least temporarily, in most part due to me failing so badly.

i still hope that i can somehow pull it off. not all hope is lost.

Hi, thought I'd chime in. First, can you post pics of the latest developments? Secondly, I looked at all your posts and i didn't see anything wrong with your plants. The brown tip on that one plant doesn't necessarily have to be nute burn. ( it doesn't look like nute burn to me) Seedlings are very tender and it might have just gotten too hot for a little while and got a slight heat burn. I have never grown in Coco, but in soil, you should not give ANY nutes(according to everything i have read) until you are in veg stage, which is about two weeks in at least. ( that might be different with coco i don't know) That little burn won't hurt your outcome if you are getting everything else in balance.

Those little seedlings want to live and all you have to do is provide them with the right amount of light, a little water and when necessary, a very small amount of a balanced veg fertilizer so they can do their thing. Don't listen to all the hype about all these marijuana specific fertilizers, you need to create the right environment for the plant to grow in because, now you are mother nature. Some people will tell you to let your plant dry out before watering it. My advice is to keep your soil moist, but not soaking. If you let a seedling dry out it will kill it. Even when a plant gets larger, you should not let it dry out completely, that is a mantra that is in these forums and people hear it and repeat it, but it is wrong. Ask yourself, does it make sense to let any plant dry out? Having the correct moisture level at all times is the right way to grow a plant. After you get a tiny bit of experience, you will know what i mean by the right amount of water. There is a thread on here by riddleme called " calling all noobs" that would help you a lot I think.

I am no expert, but i have been growing vegetables most of my adult life, and sometimes I have done well, and other times not, but i am always learning and correcting my mistakes. But the most important thing is having balance, not to much or too little of anything.

Good luck, sns

 

[asaph]

Hi, thought I'd chime in. First, can you post pics of the latest developments? Secondly, I looked at all your posts and i didn't see anything wrong with your plants. The brown tip on that one plant doesn't necessarily have to be nute burn. ( it doesn't look like nute burn to me) Seedlings are very tender and it might have just gotten too hot for a little while and got a slight heat burn. I have never grown in Coco, but in soil, you should not give ANY nutes(according to everything i have read) until you are in veg stage, which is about two weeks in at least. ( that might be different with coco i don't know) That little burn won't hurt your outcome if you are getting everything else in balance.

Those little seedlings want to live and all you have to do is provide them with the right amount of light, a little water and when necessary, a very small amount of a balanced veg fertilizer so they can do their thing. Don't listen to all the hype about all these marijuana specific fertilizers, you need to create the right environment for the plant to grow in because, now you are mother nature. Some people will tell you to let your plant dry out before watering it. My advice is to keep your soil moist, but not soaking. If you let a seedling dry out it will kill it. Even when a plant gets larger, you should not let it dry out completely, that is a mantra that is in these forums and people hear it and repeat it, but it is wrong. Ask yourself, does it make sense to let any plant dry out? Having the correct moisture level at all times is the right way to grow a plant. After you get a tiny bit of experience, you will know what i mean by the right amount of water. There is a thread on here by riddleme called " calling all noobs" that would help you a lot I think.

I am no expert, but i have been growing vegetables most of my adult life, and sometimes I have done well, and other times not, but i am always learning and correcting my mistakes. But the most important thing is having balance, not to much or too little of anything.

Good luck, sns

Thank you for your kind (and encouraging!) response. I will post updated pics of once they start their new day.

I have not given any nutes to the plants in the soil, but I think I may have given them too much light. It hasn't been hot (over 80) in the last few days so I don't think it's the heat. but maybe the light or, I dunno. I am hoping for it to go away. So far, also in the pics you can see, that the next set of leaves haven't shown a burn. so, from your mouth to Jah's. Perhaps because I let it dry? I guess I should water today.

thanks again, will update soon.

 

[smoke n strum]

Thank you for your kind (and encouraging!) response. I will post updated pics of once they start their new day.

I have not given any nutes to the plants in the soil, but I think I may have given them too much light. It hasn't been hot (over 80) in the last few days so I don't think it's the heat. but maybe the light or, I dunno. I am hoping for it to go away. So far, also in the pics you can see, that the next set of leaves haven't shown a burn. so, from your mouth to Jah's. Perhaps because I let it dry? I guess I should water today.

You are probably right about giving them too much light...aka...light too close to the plants. This is another thing you will need to get a feel for is the distance from the plant that you put your light
thanks again, will update soon.

It is probably light burn...that is what i meant by heat burn... what kind of light are you using? and how far away is it? Do you have air conditioning where the plant is and do you have good air circulation. Tell me all about your set up and take a picture of the whole thing so i can look at it.

sns

 

[smoke n strum]

Sorry, went back to page one and saw your set up explanation. sns

 

[asaph]

It is probably light burn...that is what i meant by heat burn... what kind of light are you using? and how far away is it? Do you have air conditioning where the plant is and do you have good air circulation. Tell me all about your set up and take a picture of the whole thing so i can look at it.

sns

well, the 400w hps light was about 40cm away, when I saw the symptoms I moved it up to about 70cm above. I wonder if that's enough. I can use a smaller light of 250w hps, but I don't have a MH bulb.

 

[smoke n strum]

well, the 400w hps light was about 40cm away, when I saw the symptoms I moved it up to about 70cm above. I wonder if that's enough. I can use a smaller light of 250w hps, but I don't have a MH bulb.

Your light was definitely too close before you moved it for small seedlings. Right now it is OK, as long as it isn't getting the plants too hot. Put your hand near the top of your plants and hold it there for about a minute. Does your hand feel hot? If so move the light further away. Seedlings don't need as much light as larger plants, and they also have to get used to the bright light gradually. As long as you are not getting stretch..., they are getting enough light. You can gradually move the light back down later as they get stronger. but with that light, i think 70 cm is fine even after they get bigger. If you have a light meter, as long as you keep the light intensity at about 3000 lumen with that hps, that is all the light they need and more light will not make them grow faster. It is a common misconception that as much light as possible is what they need to grow fast and large. There are many examples of people growing excellent frosty buds under one cfl bulb... another forum mantra that won't die. You need to let your plants grow, not force them to grow. do they look happy, or are they still wilty? sns

 

[asaph]

Your light was definitely too close before you moved it for small seedlings. Right now it is OK, as long as it isn't getting the plants too hot. Put your hand near the top of your plants and hold it there for about a minute. Does your hand feel hot? If so move the light further away. Seedlings don't need as much light as larger plants, and they also have to get used to the bright light gradually. As long as you are not getting stretch..., they are getting enough light. You can gradually move the light back down later as they get stronger. but with that light, i think 70 cm is fine even after they get bigger. If you have a light meter, as long as you keep the light intensity at about 3000 lumen with that hps, that is all the light they need and more light will not make them grow faster. It is a common misconception that as much light as possible is what they need to grow fast and large. There are many examples of people growing excellent frosty buds under one cfl bulb... another forum mantra that won't die. You need to let your plants grow, not force them to grow. do they look happy, or are they still wilty? sns

well, i do have a cooltube, so i can hold my hand even at 5" from the tube and it feels ok after a minute. also very cold outside now and my box temp is about 75. I have a light meter, I think after 70cm I don't even have 3000 anymore, but i'm not sure. I will check again when they are up. I do have a bit of stretching, esp in the sides, but it's under control for now. I can add some supplementary blue cfls for them.

the strangest thing about this burn is - that it happened in two plants (same strain, same soil) suddenly and at the same time and in the same manner. that is very strange.


So in one hour they will wake up and look at them and take pictures. I'm not expecting a major change but would love to be wrong.

My biggest problem right now is that my Hanna pH meter broke. It loses calibration very rapidly and I can't use it anymore, it shows 5 for water that's 8 right after calibration. it's very expensive to buy here. i can get a cheap one on ebay, but it will take very long to get here, and meanwhile that liquid ph tester is not very accurate :\

 

[asaph]

update:
perhaps a slight improvement today. one of the coco plants that got 220ppm of nutes last night seems to have become a bit greener, perhaps a little more "fluffy" too. the other ones are still pale, small and flat. I gave some 320ppm of nutes to one plant that has received nutes before. looking to see while progressing very slowly, how far I can go on the ppm for the coco.

the soil plants continue to grow, on their second leafset now, with the third spring clearly showing in the center. the burn doesn't seem to have expanded in proportion to leaf growth, and still isn't showing on the new leaves: (sorry, no flouro pics today. I really hate to move them from the closet or close the main light)



and an outlook pics (i know you can't see much, just the sizes):

 

[smoke n strum]

well, i do have a cooltube, so i can hold my hand even at 5" from the tube and it feels ok after a minute. also very cold outside now and my box temp is about 75. I have a light meter, I think after 70cm I don't even have 3000 anymore, but i'm not sure. I will check again when they are up. I do have a bit of stretching, esp in the sides, but it's under control for now. I can add some supplementary blue cfls for them.

the strangest thing about this burn is - that it happened in two plants (same strain, same soil) suddenly and at the same time and in the same manner. that is very strange.


So in one hour they will wake up and look at them and take pictures. I'm not expecting a major change but would love to be wrong.

My biggest problem right now is that my Hanna pH meter broke. It loses calibration very rapidly and I can't use it anymore, it shows 5 for water that's 8 right after calibration. it's very expensive to buy here. i can get a cheap one on ebay, but it will take very long to get here, and meanwhile that liquid ph tester is not very accurate :\

Hello again, I just want to mention that I also have a 400 watt H.I.D light with a super sun air cooled reflector, I am running a centrifugal 170cfm fan running at full speed which is set on an outlet thermostat and I can put my hand directly on the glass and it feels a little warm to the touch, but It burned one of my seedlings at 18 inches away and i thought i had nute burn, but it was heat stress, I now realize. It is the radiant heat from an HID lamp that burns them and no amount of cooling gets rid of that radiant heat. the heat is produced at the point where the light reflects off and object e.g.. your hand, the plants leaves, whatever the light hits. I am not talking about the ambient heat in the room.

Let me give you an example. Many years ago, I went to Colorado to a place called Rocky Mountain National Park. There are very tall mountains there and you can drive up to an elevation of 10,000 feet in a car. I was at that elevation on a sunny day and it was only about 35 degrees F, (just 3 degrees above freezing). It felt so warm on my skin that I was only wearing a thin tea-shirt and I did not feel cold at all. The reason for that was that the radiant heat from the sun on my skin was keeping me warm. I went in the shade of the restroom there and it was freezing cold in the shade. I got a very bad sunburn on my face and arms that day, just like a seedling can get a sunburn from a strong light in a cool room. Hopefully you see what i mean here. You do not have to put that light as close as possible as a lot of growers will tell you. Plants still grow on cloudy days and plants outside, don't always get direct sun all day.. Think about nature and try to duplicate it as much as possible. I didn't ask if it was burning your hand... I asked if it felt hot. there is a big difference. See what I mean? Good Luck, sns

 

[asaph]

Hello again, I just want to mention that I also have a 400 watt H.I.D light with a super sun air cooled reflector, I am running a centrifugal 170cfm fan running at full speed which is set on an outlet thermostat and I can put my hand directly on the glass and it feels a little warm to the touch, but It burned one of my seedlings at 18 inches away and i thought i had nute burn, but it was heat stress, I now realize. It is the radiant heat from an HID lamp that burns them and no amount of cooling gets rid of that radiant heat. the heat is produced at the point where the light reflects off and object e.g.. your hand, the plants leaves, whatever the light hits. I am not talking about the ambient heat in the room.

Let me give you an example. Many years ago, I went to Colorado to a place called Rocky Mountain National Park. There are very tall mountains there and you can drive up to an elevation of 10,000 feet in a car. I was at that elevation on a sunny day and it was only about 35 degrees F, (just 3 degrees above freezing). It felt so warm on my skin that I was only wearing a thin tea-shirt and I did not feel cold at all. The reason for that was that the radiant heat from the sun on my skin was keeping me warm. I went in the shade of the restroom there and it was freezing cold in the shade. I got a very bad sunburn on my face and arms that day, just like a seedling can get a sunburn from a strong light in a cool room. Hopefully you see what i mean here. You do not have to put that light as close as possible as a lot of growers will tell you. Plants still grow on cloudy days and plants outside, don't always get direct sun all day.. Think about nature and try to duplicate it as much as possible. I didn't ask if it was burning your hand... I asked if it felt hot. there is a big difference. See what I mean? Good Luck, sns

yes. i totally get what you mean. you could call it radiation burn i guess. light and heat are very much intertwined of course, and heat can also be generated just by light radiation. But then, remember that seedlings grow very well in the sunlight, and are never burnt even if it's a hot day outside. Then again, they don't get that light for 12 hours straight. but you may have an important point there.

anyway, I tested again with my hand, a foot below the light, for a minute with the fan off. it felt warm, but definitely not hot, i could have it lying there for a while, wouldn't mind. but i did raise the light as high as i can, about 3ft away from the plants now. maybe this is a little too much. i'll have it for just a couple of days so they can recover. i feel very insecure right now! although, it's not looking all that bad today.

 

[smoke n strum]

yes. i totally get what you mean. you could call it radiation burn i guess. light and heat are very much intertwined of course, and heat can also be generated just by light radiation. But then, remember that seedlings grow very well in the sunlight, and are never burnt even if it's a hot day outside. Then again, they don't get that light for 12 hours straight. but you may have an important point there.

anyway, I tested again with my hand, a foot below the light, for a minute with the fan off. it felt warm, but definitely not hot, i could have it lying there for a while, wouldn't mind. but i did raise the light as high as i can, about 3ft away from the plants now. maybe this is a little too much. i'll have it for just a couple of days so they can recover. i feel very insecure right now! although, it's not looking all that bad today.

Without being there I can not really make that judgement for you, but it sounds like you moved it a long way away. I would suggest you make adjustments in small increments and watch your plants...As you already know, they will tell you what they need. If they start to stretch move it back down a little. Be confident, this plant os an easy plant to grow if you just watch it and give it what it needs. Don't panic, they look great and they are growing so its all good. sns

 

[smoke n strum]

yes. i totally get what you mean. you could call it radiation burn i guess. light and heat are very much intertwined of course, and heat can also be generated just by light radiation. But then, remember that seedlings grow very well in the sunlight, and are never burnt even if it's a hot day outside. Then again, they don't get that light for 12 hours straight. but you may have an important point there.

anyway, I tested again with my hand, a foot below the light, for a minute with the fan off. it felt warm, but definitely not hot, i could have it lying there for a while, wouldn't mind. but i did raise the light as high as i can, about 3ft away from the plants now. maybe this is a little too much. i'll have it for just a couple of days so they can recover. i feel very insecure right now! although, it's not looking all that bad today.

I have subscribed to your thread so I can watch your plants grow.. Keep the updates coming. i can't wait to see those girls start rockin. sns