help.. 3 times and yall say everythings fine.

mellokitty

Moderatrix of Journals
Lol hopefully your right, i only have 2 seeds left 0.o so im gona try and make it work, yeah the soils ph is on point and the nutrition was bumped up by a little compoast about 3 weeks before they were put in it
am i the only one who caught this? what sort of compost? did you give it to your plants, or did you amend your soil with it 3 wks before they went in it? if it was too "hot", 3 weeks isn't going to have been long enough for that to correct itself.... did you ph after you amended? also: in the same sense that ff is too strong for seedlings, you may just have given them too much N with the compost, too, depending.

ultimately, you have to ask yourself how you're failing at mimicking nature. the 4 factors are medium, water, light and air.

let's start with medium: personally i disagree with the baking of potting soil/soilless mix - it's 80+% sphagnum. i think it's one of those practises best left to the veterans. there's probably a very fine, almost instinctual, line you don't want to cross.

sphagnum has a high tannin content (the stuff that makes coffee and tea black and bitter). we've all seen from making our morning tea and coffee what a bit of moisture and heat can do to the tannin content of those 2 things, why would it be any different with sphagnum moss? (instead of simultaneous heat and moisture, you have heat to activate, *followed by moisture to dissipate it, same shit different pile right?) which would go with the "you probably killed off all your beneficials" theory. further (from wiki, because i'd forgotten exactly how this works): " Peat moss can also acidify its surroundings by taking up cations such as calcium and magnesium and releasing hydrogen ions." (<- if it does this in the state it's sold in, don't you think heating it up would encourage this process?) (this would also go with the lockout theory above too, no?)
the long and short is you're acidifying your mix not once but twice by heating it. (again, i'm not saying this isn't possible because i've read about people doing that on riu too, but safe to assume they know what to look for whilst doing this...)
sphagnum has natural antiseptic qualities; microbes of all sorts have a hard enough time living in it. it was one of the closest things they had to antibiotics, before antibiotics. don't make it any harder for them.
(promix hp, for instance, has added mycorrhizae, which probably wouldn't survive a baking at those temps.)
if you're concerned about bugs and want to do something pre-emptive, mix some diatomaceous earth into your mix, it's cheap, safe for humans (some people ingest the food-grade stuff to treat intestinal parasites), and it kills softbodied larvae (which is most pests we encounter in our endeavours), and leaves the single-cell bennies alone.

onto water: when i started growing r/o was still some pretty damn expensive tech... almost everybody (including the world-famous pros that live here) used their tap/well water (most people using straight tap let it sit overnight) and a lot of them still do; rainwater isn't distilled (well it is but it acquires all sorts of impurities on its way down) or r/o, and cannabis has grown just fine for 1000s of years. unless you're dealing with super-hard or high-ppm water already, i doubt that that's your problem.

light: tbh, at this stage, they just want *something. obviously an optimal spectrum at this point would be, well, optimal, but if you think about it, cannabis is an annual. its sprouts come up in spring, long before that rich, strong, summer sun. and for forest-dwelling cannabis, they're fighting against a tree canopy for direct sunlight to boot. as far as wee babies go, unless you're full-on light-starving them, or have them under something that deprives them of a specific necessary colour (which it doesn't sound like), light is less important that medium and water.

air: ventilation is very important. in the 90s i had the occasion to meet (and pick the brains of) all sorts of folks that are pothead household names now, and when you ask most of them what the most important aspect of growing is, they all said that the first 3 rules should be to have good air exchange; this applies to all stages of plant life. that said, (and i'm not implying that you are) you don't want wind blowing right on your babies. a *leetle bit of swaying motion will actually serve to strengthen the main stalk but you don't want them whippin around in the wind.

good luck!! this may not help right at the moment, but i've helped all sorts of newbies-to-gardening over the years, and i've found that the ones whose first tries don't go perfectly usually end up becoming better growers in the long run, because that first failure opens their minds to learning instead of cementing the "my way or the highway" philosophy in their minds. (my first real grow actually went pretty well, and i fully admit to having been a knowitall grower back then, but when i eventually fell from olympus it was a *Hard *Fall from grace.....)
 

FriendlyGuy

Well-Known Member
am i the only one who caught this? what sort of compost? did you give it to your plants, or did you amend your soil with it 3 wks before they went in it? if it was too "hot", 3 weeks isn't going to have been long enough for that to correct itself.... did you ph after you amended? also: in the same sense that ff is too strong for seedlings, you may just have given them too much N with the compost, too, depending.

ultimately, you have to ask yourself how you're failing at mimicking nature. the 4 factors are medium, water, light and air.

let's start with medium: personally i disagree with the baking of potting soil/soilless mix - it's 80+% sphagnum. i think it's one of those practises best left to the veterans. there's probably a very fine, almost instinctual, line you don't want to cross.

sphagnum has a high tannin content (the stuff that makes coffee and tea black and bitter). we've all seen from making our morning tea and coffee what a bit of moisture and heat can do to the tannin content of those 2 things, why would it be any different with sphagnum moss? (instead of simultaneous heat and moisture, you have heat to activate, *followed by moisture to dissipate it, same shit different pile right?) which would go with the "you probably killed off all your beneficials" theory. further (from wiki, because i'd forgotten exactly how this works): " Peat moss can also acidify its surroundings by taking up cations such as calcium and magnesium and releasing hydrogen ions." (<- if it does this in the state it's sold in, don't you think heating it up would encourage this process?) (this would also go with the lockout theory above too, no?)
the long and short is you're acidifying your mix not once but twice by heating it. (again, i'm not saying this isn't possible because i've read about people doing that on riu too, but safe to assume they know what to look for whilst doing this...)
sphagnum has natural antiseptic qualities; microbes of all sorts have a hard enough time living in it. it was one of the closest things they had to antibiotics, before antibiotics. don't make it any harder for them.
(promix hp, for instance, has added mycorrhizae, which probably wouldn't survive a baking at those temps.)
if you're concerned about bugs and want to do something pre-emptive, mix some diatomaceous earth into your mix, it's cheap, safe for humans (some people ingest the food-grade stuff to treat intestinal parasites), and it kills softbodied larvae (which is most pests we encounter in our endeavours), and leaves the single-cell bennies alone.

onto water: when i started growing r/o was still some pretty damn expensive tech... almost everybody (including the world-famous pros that live here) used their tap/well water (most people using straight tap let it sit overnight) and a lot of them still do; rainwater isn't distilled (well it is but it acquires all sorts of impurities on its way down) or r/o, and cannabis has grown just fine for 1000s of years. unless you're dealing with super-hard or high-ppm water already, i doubt that that's your problem.

light: tbh, at this stage, they just want *something. obviously an optimal spectrum at this point would be, well, optimal, but if you think about it, cannabis is an annual. its sprouts come up in spring, long before that rich, strong, summer sun. and for forest-dwelling cannabis, they're fighting against a tree canopy for direct sunlight to boot. as far as wee babies go, unless you're full-on light-starving them, or have them under something that deprives them of a specific necessary colour (which it doesn't sound like), light is less important that medium and water.

air: ventilation is very important. in the 90s i had the occasion to meet (and pick the brains of) all sorts of folks that are pothead household names now, and when you ask most of them what the most important aspect of growing is, they all said that the first 3 rules should be to have good air exchange; this applies to all stages of plant life. that said, (and i'm not implying that you are) you don't want wind blowing right on your babies. a *leetle bit of swaying motion will actually serve to strengthen the main stalk but you don't want them whippin around in the wind.

good luck!! this may not help right at the moment, but i've helped all sorts of newbies-to-gardening over the years, and i've found that the ones whose first tries don't go perfectly usually end up becoming better growers in the long run, because that first failure opens their minds to learning instead of cementing the "my way or the highway" philosophy in their minds. (my first real grow actually went pretty well, and i fully admit to having been a knowitall grower back then, but when i eventually fell from olympus it was a *Hard *Fall from grace.....)
bro im not going to lie.. but at 12:36 am.. if i hadnt smoked for 6 days.. i woulda been way too fuckin blazed to read all that AMAZING info!!! that was sick bro! great research man! thanks for contributing! good luck on your grows man! i hope one day i will be as smart as everyone of you so i TOO can throw out some awesome info like kitty, the pineapple express guy, and all the others on here. gosh man i really am feeling myself climbing that ladder the more i learn new things :]
 

FriendlyGuy

Well-Known Member
message from MelloKitty:
"[...]and i've found that the ones whose first tries don't go perfectly usually end up becoming better growers in the long run, because that first failure opens their minds to learning instead of cementing the "my way or the highway" philosophy in their minds. (my first real grow actually went pretty well, and i fully admit to having been a knowitall grower back then, but when i eventually fell from olympus it was a *Hard *Fall from grace.....)"

Yeah my first grow went pretty good & alright but I ACCEPT that I know nothing since im starting out, im a fucking guru in the Health and Fitness field and I know I didnt get there by sticking with my own ideas, I talked to all sorts of people, did countless hours of research and just kept talking to the people and from there I determined the accuracy of what they were saying DESPITE how experienced they were.
So my first grow was succesful but i just knew there was a hell-of-a-lot more to the picture than anyone here locally knew.. I swear by being on this site i bumped my knowledge up dramatically compared to the people I meet.

Like its crazy how I see set ups TRYING to be sold for like 800-2200 dollars... fuckin crazy, some guy tried to sell me one.. and he said "Hey if you want to take growing seriously, you need to buy my set up" and im thinking.. "well fuck I just made on for 50 bucks.. and last time i checked.. air circulation is air circulation.. light is light.. Clean water is R.O water... Nutes are nutes.." as long as I improve those aspects I improve the grow.

Am I wrong for thinking that? or is he wrong and just assumed I dont know shit?
 

mellokitty

Moderatrix of Journals
oh, hey i just meant as a *tendency as far as the arrogance. let's say a first-timer gets off a *spectacular* harvest. now, a generally humble person might take that and chalk it up to beginner's luck, say. a generally arrogant person might take that think they're just a naturally spectacular grower, you just can't teach that shit, etc. etc. lol
lots of people start growing in their late teens/early twenties and i've been that age; i don't consider myself an arrogant person, but in retrospect i certainly was then. i do admit i'm a bit of an armchair sociologist ;)

beware the marketing practises of the hydro-industry-bandwagon-jumpers.... pretty much anytime you have someone trying to pull the *hard* sell on you (not to be confused with the "well i just invested in this and it really helped me" tip, which can be hard) just ask them how much the company is paying them. if they secretly work for them, chances are they'll back off you 'cuz you just 'made' them and if they don't, most decent people will back off because they'll realise they were being pushy enough to make you think they *were on somebody's payroll.... and the ones who don't back off who don't even make a comish are simply trolls.

earth air fire water....
 

sso

Well-Known Member
what comes to mind is cheap soil or something in the soil.

cheap soil can kill plants, look fine or ok for a bit,then suddenly just die (or stay runts)
 

KlosetKing

Well-Known Member
P.S.
This site is FULL of awful advise. If you have a problem, this place should be the last resort for help after books, web sites, youtube and google.
Um, wrong sorry. Actually this site probably has MORE info that youtube, though not google because google is a fucking search engine and will bring info from this, and MANY, other sites. This site has PLENTY of GREAT info, but you need to have a relatively 'average' iq to be able to accurately interpret it, understand it, and mold it to fit the application YOU need it for. Don't take everything at face value, find multiple sources, look for scientific evidence when available, and use LOTS of sites. I myself am a member of Rollitup and GrassCity, and used to troll plenty of other forums long before i ever joined any. Your advise was sound until this comment, even if mildly rude.
 
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