Have police confiscated the house of anyone?

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redivider

Well-Known Member
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[FONT=arial,helvetica]Jarret Wollstein [/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica]Saturday, June 30, 2001[/FONT]
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Across America, the Drug Enforcement Administration is seizing the luggage, cash and cars of hapless travelers. Under America's new civil forfeiture laws, mere possession of a large amount of cash or a drug dog barking at your luggage is sufficient probable cause for police to legally seize everything you are carrying.

In Albuquerque, N.M., in February 2000, DEA agents detained Sam Thach, who was traveling on Amtrak from Fullerton, Calif., to Boston, and seized $147,000 in cash he was carrying. Thach had no drugs. His crime? He had bought a one-way ticket with cash and didn't give Amtrak his phone number. (1)
The DEA seized $640,000 from Jennifer Leigh Ames while she was traveling on Amtrak on April 5, 2001. Agents say she looked nervous and had refused permission to search her luggage. (1)
Former Newark, N.J., policeman Carlos Hernandez discovered police searching his Amtrak sleeper cabin and demanding to search his luggage on July 22, 1999. Hernandez’s crime? He’s Hispanic and paid for his $694 ticket in cash. (2)
At Houston’s Hobby Airport, police stopped 49-year-old Ethel Hylton and seized her luggage because a drug dog had scratched it. Agents searched her bags and strip-searched her but found no drugs. They did find $39,110 in cash from an insurance settlement and her life savings, accumulated through over 20 years of work as a hotel housekeeper and hospital janitor.
Ms. Hylton completely documented where she had gotten the money and was never charged with a crime. But the police kept her money anyway. Destitute, she had no way to fight them. (3)
These outrageous seizures are completely legal and have been upheld by the highest courts in the land, including the U.S. Supreme Court.
The DEA's Web site claims, "Property is seized by the DEA only when it is determined to be a tool for, or the proceeds of, illegal activities such as drug trafficking, organized crime, or money laundering." But the above examples show the reality.
Under civil asset forfeiture, your property – not you – is charged with a crime. Hence the bizarre title of civil forfeiture cases: "United States vs. one 1998 Mercedes Benz," "California vs. 1711 Main Street," and so forth.
Once your property is charged with a crime, it can be seized and kept by police, even if you are never convicted of anything. An appeals court in Florida even ruled that police can personally receive bounties of 25 percent of the value of anything they seize from you, such as your car, bank accounts or home.
There are now more than 400 federal offenses and thousands of state and local offenses for which your cash, car, bank accounts and home can be seized – including shoplifting, hiring an illegal alien such as a maid (California), playing a car stereo too loud (New York), transporting illegal fireworks, gambling, having illegal drugs on your property, and merely discussing violating any law ("conspiracy”), such as underpaying your taxes.
More than $1 billion in property is now seized without trial each year from innocent Americans, according to the national forfeiture defense organization FEAR (Forfeiture Endangers American Rights) (4). Seizures range from the pocket cash of poor street people to the cars of men accused of soliciting prostitutes to multimillion-dollar apartment buildings.
Once police seize your property, the burden of proof is on you to prove your property’s innocence. Any suspected illegal actions of your relatives, guests, friends and employees on or even near your property are sufficient grounds to seize it.
In Montgomery, Ala., police seized the home of 69-year-old Gussie Mae Gantt after videotaping police informants buying drugs in her yard. Ms. Gantt had previously called the police, complaining about drug dealing in her neighborhood, and had posted no-trespassing signs, but the drug dealers ignored them. Police waited until there was a drug deal in her yard and then seized her home. (5)

Easy Money for the Government
Once your home, car or bank accounts are seized under civil asset forfeiture laws, you can pretty much forget about ever getting them back. It's you versus the police and courts, who divide up the proceeds from your property according to formulas such as "80 percent for police, 20 percent for the court."
If you want to fight seizure of your property, expect to spend at least $15,000 just to hire a competent asset defense attorney. Also expect the police to introduce hearsay evidence and to go through trial after trial, because the normal constitutional protections afforded criminal suspects don't apply to civil forfeiture of your property. (6)
With all of this easy confiscated money, asset confiscation is now big business across America. In Volusia County, Fla., police seized more than $8 million worth of cars from motorists stopped for minor traffic violations along Interstate 95. (7) In Alameda County, Calif., police auction off hundreds of seized cars and boats every month.
The latest wrinkle in civil asset forfeiture is police working with Amtrak, Greyhound, airlines and hotels to seize cash from travelers. The Albuquerque Journal reports that Amtrak gave the Drug Enforcement Administration access to its booking system in exchange for 10 percent of any monies seized by police.
The DEA has similar deals with airlines at major airports and many hotel and motel owners in Los Angeles, Las Vegas and other large cities. DEA agents are now permanently stationed at major airports and hotels.
So, the next time you pay for an Amtrak ticket, airline flight or hotel room in cash, don’t be surprised if you get a knock on your door from machine gun-armed DEA agents.
Sources:
(1) "Railway Bandits," Reason, July 2001, p. 14.
(2) "Railway Bandits," Reason, July 2001, p. 15.
(3) "Presumed Guilty: The Law's Victims in the War on Drugs," Andrew Schneider and Mary Pat Flaherty. Reprinted from the Pittsburgh Press, Aug. 11-16, 1991, pp. 5-6.
(4) Forfeiture Endangers American Rights, www.fear.org.
(5) An analysis of U.S. asset forfeiture laws, with extensive legal citations, can be found in the book "Your House Is Under Arrest," by Brenda Grantland, one of America's leading asset defense attorneys. Copies are available from ISIL, 707/726-8796 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 707/726-8796 end_of_the_skype_highlighting, www.isil.org. Another excellent source is "Forfeiting Our Property Rights," by U.S. Rep. Henry Hyde, R-Ill.
(6) Brenda Grantland, "Your House Is Under Arrest," Institute for the Preservation of Wealth, Burnsville, Minn., 1993, p. 61.
(7) Orlando Sentinel, Aug. 2, 1992.
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took me less than a minute.....
 
sweetsmell

sweetsmell

Well-Known Member
They can hold your shit (anything w/o warrant) but they MUST prove that it was used/funded for illegal activity to keep it past the preliminary hearing. Also there are MANY variables when it comes to law. Like the government dont want your pos junk.

These guidelines set minimum net equity levels that generally must be met before federal
forfeiture actions are instituted. The net equity values are intended to decrease the number of
federal seizures, thereby enhancing case quality and expediting processing of the cases we do
initiate. The thresholds are also intended to encourage state and local law enforcement
agencies to use state forfeiture laws. These thresholds are to be applied in direct federal and
adoptive cases. In general, the minimum net equity requirements are:
Asset Forfeiture Policy Manual (2008)
As a general rule, the Department of Justice does not seize or a 5 dopt contaminated real properties. See
discussion of contaminated real property in section IV at page 24.
6 The arrest of the person from whom the property is taken for an offense related to the illegal use or
acquisition of the property for which a forfeiture action may be brought satisfies the condition of criminal
prosecution. This restriction does not apply in the case of seizures by U.S. Immigration and Customs
Enforcement (ICE) of vehicles used in the smuggling of aliens or in the case of vehicles modified or customized
to facilitate illegal activity.
6
(1) Residential real property and vacant land—minimum net equity must be at least
20 percent of the appraised value. For properties with appraised values less than
$100,000 net equity must be at least $20,000. For example, the minimum net
equity threshold on a $200,000 property is $40,000.5
(2) Vehicles—minimum net equity must be at least $5,000. The value of multiple
vehicles seized at the same time may be aggregated for purposes of meeting the
minimum net equity. If the person from whom the vehicle is taken was or is being
criminally prosecuted by state or federal authorities for criminal activities related
to the vehicle and there is justification for a low value seizure, the minimum net
equity is $2,000.6
(3) Cash—minimum amount must be at least $5,000, unless the person from whom
the cash was taken was criminally prosecuted or is being prosecuted by state or
federal authorities for criminal activities related to the property, in which case, the
amount must be at least $1,000.
(4) Aircraft—minimum net equity must be at least $10,000. Note that failure to obtain
the log books for the aircraft will reduce the aircraft’s value significantly.
(5) Vessels—minimum net equity must be at least $10,000.
(6) All other personal property—minimum net equity must be at least $1,000 in the
aggregate. Exceptions from the minimum net equity requirements should not be
made for any individual item if it has a value of less than $1,000. Such exceptions
can be made if practical considerations support the seizure (e.g., 20 items of
jewelry, each valued at $500, might be seized, as the total value of the items is
$10,000 and the cost of storing 20 small items of jewelry is not excessive).
Heads of investigative agencies may continue to establish higher thresholds for seizures
made by their agencies. If an investigative agency head establishes higher monetary
thresholds than those described above, AFMLS must be advised in writing of the change.
 
sweetsmell

sweetsmell

Well-Known Member
So we going to sit here and play who is the best internet lawyer? I'm game...... I guess you missed where I said I went to law school for a short amount of time.And yes I may not have finished (guess thats the " lazy stoner" in me ...LOL..) but I have plenty of friends and class mates that did .
 
dudemandigo

dudemandigo

Well-Known Member
I got busted at one point and the cops didnt take the house. They took most of my hydro equipment, ballasts, 55 plants, and 3 guns that were in the house. I had a veg room, a drying room and a large flowering room.
 
R

redivider

Well-Known Member
they don't have to prove shit.

you are mistaken. the Federal Government has serious guidelines for forfeiture, that's why STATE LAW ENFORCEMENT NORMALLY SEIZES YOUR SHIT.

i can google with the best of them. let's see what the AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION has to say about seizure laws in California, there's articles like this all over the place:

Local forfeiture operations such as Oakland's are contrary to basic principles of due process and fundamental fairness, in the following ways:
  • Punishment without conviction. Under the Ordinance, a vehicle can be seized and sold without anyone being convicted, or even arrested, for the underlying criminal offense. In fact, the eventual dismissal or even acquittal of the criminal charge does not result in the return of the vehicle.
  • No presumption of innocence. The bedrock principle of our justice system -- that persons accused of crime are innocent until proven guilty -- is violated by this Ordinance. If you are accused of buying drugs or soliciting a prostitute, your car can be seized by the police without a warrant or any prior judicial hearing. Once your car is seized, the burden is on the owner to get back the car back, even if the owner had no knowledge that it was used for illegal activity. This disregard for the norms of our justice system would continue in the courts, where the traditional requirements of a right to a jury trial and that the government prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt are denied under the Ordinance.
  • Punishment of the innocent. Under federal and state forfeiture laws, the vehicles of innocent owners that are used for illegal purposes without their knowledge or consent are not subject to forfeiture. In Oakland, there is no such "innocent owner" defense. Loaning your car to your teenager or your spouse is sufficient grounds to be subjected to government confiscation and loss of title if it is used for illegal purposes. A family could lose its only car, even if it were needed for transportation to school or jobs.
  • Disproportionate punishment. The United States Supreme Court has held that the Eighth Amendment's prohibition against excessive fines applies to civil forfeitures where the property forfeited is grossly disproportional to the gravity of the offense. The forfeiture of a vehicle based on the purchase of a small amount of marijuana (an offense with a maximum fine of $100) constitutes disproportionate punishment, particularly if the vehicle owner was innocent of any involvement in the illegal activity.
  • Conflict with state law. The California Legislature recognized that forfeiture laws can have a "harsh effect on property owners" (Health & Saf. Code, sec 11469(j)) and passed a law requiring a conviction for the underlying offense. State law also provides a defense for innocent owners and an exemption if the vehicle is a family's only car. As all of these protections are disregarded in the Oakland Ordinance, the ACLU brought a facial challenge to the ordinance arguing that it is in conflict with, and therefore preempted by, state law. The Court of Appeal rejected this argument, ruling that Oakland was entitled to adopt its broader forfeiture scheme (Horton v. Oakland, 82 Cal. App. 4th 580 (2000).
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let's tango kid. i'm here all day.

tell this guy he has to prove his stuff came from illegal activity:

Caught on tape: Cops talk about stealing man’s property over bag of weed



By Stephen C. Webster
Monday, February 28th, 2011 -- 2:01 pm

Share53Share1668 89Share611Share8Share9


Tags: abc affiliate, bag, drug task force, equipment, flat screen tv, half way home, home, luke davis, property, recording
Police officers in Lansing, Michigan are in hot water after an investigative report by local ABC News affiliate WXYZ.
According to the report's source, officers with the OMNI Drug Task Force executed a search warrant on the home of Rudy Simpson in June 2008, and found a small bag of marijuana and half a pain pill that he'd been prescribed.
While talking about what they should do, officers began to eye the expensive recording equipment around Simpson's home, ultimately deciding that they could very well take everything if they wanted thanks to the drugs they'd found.
What they didn't realize is that when they raided the home, Simpson and friends were in the middle of a recording session, and the microphones were live.
"Basically what I heard them talking about is what equipment, what materialistic stuff could they take out of my house," he told the ABC affiliate. "It seems like...that they were just trying to figure out what they could come out of here with."
After the incident, Simpson said prosecutors played hardball and even threatened to prosecute him for the medicine he'd been legally prescribed. He forfeited some property and spent time in a half-way home, according to the report.
Simpson also claimed officers were eating his food, and that they stole a gold ring.


Police ended up leaving Simpson's home that day in 2008 with "a 52” flat screen TV, a DVD player, two computers, a camera and a bunch of DVDs," reporter Scott Lewis wrote.
Now, two of the officers involved -- Lt. Luke Davis and Lt. Emmanuel Riopelle -- are facing "dozens" of charges. Both have been accused in a long-running scheme to steal from drug suspects and profit from sales of their property.
In spite of the incident, drug task forces across the nation continue to operate with secret budgets and the backing of laws that permit wanton seizure of property if drugs are discovered.
This video is from ABC News affiliate WXYZ Action 7 in Lansing, Michigan, broadcast Feb. 23, 2011.
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i understand why you didn't finish law school......
 
R

redivider

Well-Known Member
dudemandigo said:
I got busted at one point and the cops didnt take the house. They took most of my hydro equipment, ballasts, 55 plants, and 3 guns that were in the house. I had a veg room, a drying room and a large flowering room.
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they didn't take your house b/c you didn't have enough equity on it for it to be worth it. if you owe more than a house is worth, you are safe. if you owe up to like 60% of the home's value, your safe. if you owe less than 40% of the home's value, you are FUCKED.
 
sweetsmell

sweetsmell

Well-Known Member
redivider said:
they don't have to prove shit.

you are mistaken. the Federal Government has serious guidelines for forfeiture, that's why STATE LAW ENFORCEMENT NORMALLY SEIZES YOUR SHIT.

i can google with the best of them. let's see what the AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION has to say about seizure laws in California, there's articles like this all over the place:



let's tango kid. i'm here all day.

tell this guy he has to prove his stuff came from illegal activity:



i understand why you didn't finish law school......
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LOL you are very sadly mistaken if you think you even have a hint on why I didn't finish school. But lets start with what you said about cops seizing things.... as already stated by me they can take ANYTHING they want for evidence until the preliminary hearing then they must disclose why it was taken and what it has to do with their case.
Your article about those cops taking that guys stuff for profits is not even relevant to what we are discussing. As yes it does happen but we are talking about law and not crooked cops and crooks. LOL at you trying to compare apples to oranges(almost as funny as you trying to guess why I didn't finish school). I know PERSONALLY a close friend that was busted 6 mo. ago and yes they took his $50k truck but guess what..?... his attorneys had it back to him with in a week. So yes state can also take and seize things but this is different from state to state and it virtually impossible for you and I to compare the differences (hence why I posted fed law). But you said it best with in bold in your statement ... you are a GOOGLER and I give the book of law. I still think its funny how I break out the law book and you give me a quote to a news article... congratulations. So go see what else you can dig up on GOOGLE and get back to us when you find something useful. And like already stated..we already know that they don't need a warrant to take your stuff so please don't post it for the 6th time.So please let us know what google says as mine is broken.
 
psychedelictripper

psychedelictripper

Well-Known Member
The day cops, feds etc are trusted to follow law is the day the fences become visible. There's a whole lot being assumed. For one people there's the assumption you'll have a chance to defend yourself. Watched yet another video last night cop home invasion and guy shot to death unarmed. Then there's the "uncle scenario". They have unlimited funding to trample your rights. You? Not everyone can afford a lawyer. Public defender? Works for the courts' money laundering system. I wouldn't put it past a cop to take and put the burden on YOU to prove you even owned...umm what was it? Already forgotten....were you even born? Next stop Guantanamo and they're no longer stereotyping you as a Mexican but now insisting you're a member of Hezbollah. In a nut shell trust em as far as you can throw em.
 
asafan69

asafan69

Well-Known Member
This might not quite be on topic, as it has nothing to do with drugs, but it does have everything to do with what cops will and will not do regardless of the law. My great uncle had an extensive coin collection. Had to be worth at least 20,000 - 30,0000 + that he kept in his house in Brooklyn. He lived alone and died of a heart attack one day. His brother, another great uncle of mine, didn't hear from him so went over to check on him and found him dead. Naturally he called the police. When all was said and done, the coin collection was gone. It was definitely there before they came as it was not something he would ever have sold and no one else could have taken it. Cops suck. They are just people wearing a uniform.
 
Southernstates

Southernstates

Member
DirtPoor said:
The boys in blue are the biggest gang you'll ever see...
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word!!!!!

if your going to grow.. gurrelia grow... or grow outdoors if you got a big place.. that way you can say "i didn't know it was there" <--- that gets soooo many farmers out of trouble its insane!!!!

idc what the "law" states/says/is inturpreted.. IF YOU DON'T HAVE A GOOD LAWYER.. your fucked!!!! no ands ifs or buts about it!! if you have a good lawyer.. then you are set!! if you have a shitty lawyer.. your fucked... this is why some people get away with shit with a slap on the rist.. and others get to ride the lighting... <-- no i didn't go to law school.. i didn't google it either lol... ben around crime all my life... and thats how it allways worked out.. the guys who spend the thousands of dollars to get out of trouble.. GOT OUT OF TROUBLE.. the ones who took the court appointed over worked/hung over guy.. got just as much of a shitty sentencing as he did a lawyer lol...
 
laughingduck

laughingduck

Well-Known Member
Just got busted in oklahoma, i was lucky they did not take my land (because i still have a few payments) but they took pretty much everything they thought was of value. They also took my truck.
 
KevinSmith

KevinSmith

Active Member
In Quebec Canada Marijuana is decriminalized regarding minor possession but what they have done is make when they bust a grow op they do so under the 'anti gang laws' and you get shafted big time!
Everything you own regardless of it's involvement in drug possession is confiscated and sold at auction. If you are proven guilty of course..
 
G

george1234

Member
I was popped back in the 90s the state did file forfieture papers almost lost my house they stated the house was be used to manufacture the drug, got out of it but it was a close one, lost all my guns, and any cash in the house, I have come to the conclusion you do not own your home, the state does and all you do is lease it from them, property taxs......
 
Southernstates

Southernstates

Member
george1234 said:
I was popped back in the 90s the state did file forfieture papers almost lost my house they stated the house was be used to manufacture the drug, got out of it but it was a close one, lost all my guns, and any cash in the house, I have come to the conclusion you do not own your home, the state does and all you do is lease it from them, property taxs......
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yup!!
they even own you... they pass these crazy ass laws.. and all kinds of shit.. america has became the place where if its felt that its wrong by one person that has political pull.. or alot of $$$ then its passed as a law... america should be basic laws... to protect humans and the element.. and drop this animal shit.. drop this weed shit... drop all this other crazy shit... drop all these god damn taxes.. and let us be free... sorry got off point. main point was.. YOUR RIGHT
 
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