The Obama plan vs. the Ryan plan

mame

Well-Known Member
According to Internal Revenue Service data, the entire taxable income of everyone earning over $100,000 in 2008 was about $1.582 trillion. Even if all these Americans—most of whom are far from wealthy—were taxed at 100%, it wouldn't cover Mr. Obama's deficit for this year."
No one said all we want to do is tax the wealthy and call it good. This is a terribly weak argument that anti-tax conservatives are trying to use to make you say "oh well raising taxes wont help at all, no point in doing it" when in reality it's just one peice of the puzzle. Just like Beohner's comment, "we dont have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem." when just by repealing all of the bush tax cuts, we'd largely solve our budget problems... from the NYtimes:
This change, by itself, would solve about 75 percent of the deficit problem over the next five years. The rest could come from spending cuts, both for social programs and the military.

Over the longer term — 20 years — letting all of the Bush cuts lapse would close only about 40 percent of the budget gap. But 40 percent is a great start. No one is seriously suggesting that all deficit reduction should come from higher taxes. Much of it will have to come from slowing the growth rate of medical spending, which is the main cause of the long-term deficit.

To be clear, the end of the Bush cuts is not the ideal way to raise taxes. A better approach would be to close some tax loopholes while possibly even reducing rates. The tax code would then become simpler. Businesses and households would have to waste less effort trying to qualify for tax breaks.
oh btw, Obama's plan also calls for loopholes to be closed so in that respect the plans are similer (Obama would likely drop taxes - but not as low as Ryan)
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
even Warren Buffett says he doesn't need another tax cut and neither do his friends. the GOP is looking out only for the ones that make big contributions for election campaigns. And now that corporations are considered people ( I have a seriously hard time comprehending that ruling), they can spend millions on 527's if they wish.
 

Balzac89

Undercover Mod
I just wanted to add also that the Republican Party is dead and the Tea Party is the best example of why it is.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
Many analysts now don't believe Donald Trump is serious because he would have to file very detailed financial earnings reports that would be public information.... I think he is a blow hard looking for media coverage....
 

Balzac89

Undercover Mod
IS there anyone other than Obama who is capable of running and actually winning the next election? nope
 

ink the world

Well-Known Member
Lets see, the top 10% of wage earners pay 70% of total income taxes collected. Bottom 50% of wage earners pay less then 3% of total income taxes collected. Source IRS for year 2008, the latest data available.

If you actually did any kind of research into what you posted you would have known better than to post that misleading bullshit. Did your research show how much wealth that top 10% has compared to the other 90% ?
If you can even look at recent history (the Bush era) there are several FACTS that completely nullify your argument and agenda.

How was average personal wealth during this tax era? It dropped, for the first time in history. That policy has made the rich that much richer and the poor (yeah even he working poor) that much poorer.

Now you tell me who is and is not paying their fair share. We need to go back to the days when only land owners could vote, and then only if they contribute more then they receive via government welfare. The idea that those who leach off others should have a vote in how much others should pay is disgusting.

Holy shit are for real, only land owner vote huh? How about making them pass an intelligence test too? Typical radical crackpot horseshit is all that is. So a good portion of our military, elderly and poor people cant voite. Just what you asshole teabaggers want: A completely white and rich electorate. So glad to see that you think someone that is willing to go to war for our country doesnt deserve a vote. Asshat.


You stop contributing, you stop voting. You start contributing, you start voting. PERIOD.

As a Marine, I will tell you this. You sir are full of shit and act more entitled than anyone ive ever met. That unemployed Marine did contribute, I guarantee a lot more than your pompous entitled ass ever has or probably will.
You have surpassed Rick White on the idiot meter, congrats dude thats an accomplishment.
 

ink the world

Well-Known Member
I just wanted to add also that the Republican Party is dead and the Tea Party is the best example of why it is.
Exactly my man.....my family has deep political roots in the Republican party, my father was an elected official. As a young kid I got dragged to a lot of political fundraisers/events, I registered and voted as a Republican. Voted Republican for many years........I started to lose faith in the party when the social conservatives started to have more and more sway in the party.

When the whole Tea Party bullshit started I knew this would be the result. They too have been corrupted. They are not for the "people" in any way shape or form (their tax beliefs, health care etc) and they sure got REAL concerned over social issues real fast (once the $ started rolling in)..So the end result, the Teabaggers are going to force the party even more to the social right.

End game for me.
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
Obama finished his speech a bit ago about his proposal to cut $4 trillion over the next 10 years. Ryan, who also released his plan recently, has proposed $4.4 trillion.

Obama's plan includes dropping earners making more than 250k off of the bush tax cuts, closing loopholes and lowering the tax rate, cuts ~600 billion from the discretionary budget, and seeks to control medicare costs. There are plenty more details, I'll link to them once I find the complete plan (.pdf).

Ryan's plan, found here, cuts taxes on the wealthy by ~3 trillion, cuts discretionary spending by about 1.6 trillion, privatizes Medicare via a voucher system, makes the bush tax cuts permanent, closes loopholes and drops rates, among other things...

I have plenty of beef about Ryan's plan including that they cut ~3 trillion total spending (discretionary and medicare cuts) and literally hand that money to the top earners in cuts. They claim this will actually amount to net increase in revenue because they'd be "broadening the base" but to do this - we'd have to be on the wrong side of the Laffer curve (hint: up is up, down is down at current rates).

Almost all of the proposed savings in medicare come via shifting the costs from ~70% government contribution to ~30%. Doing nothing to control costs - instead pushing them onto medicare receipiants.

Besides that, Ryan offers no cuts in military spending. He also leaves subsidies for big oil in place while removing those for clean energy like solar and wind.

thoughts?

Only in Washington does budget cut mean spend more...
 

newatit2010

Well-Known Member
Well hell maybe the government should take every thing the rich bastards have, they might be able to pay the interest on the money the country owes for a year. Oh but we are borrowing 295 million every 2 hours to pay that interest. Oh we also are spending over a trillion a year that we have to borrow. thats not including wars.

So back to the story if these dumb mother fuckers ruining the country don't stop spending like fucking drunks on coke, and do something about getting jobs back in this country we are all going to be fucked. I have no faith in this government to help any body but them selfs. Every body tighten up the shit is about to hit the fan.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Here’s The Wall Street Journal’s take on Obama’s speech.

"We ask because President Obama's extraordinary response to Paul Ryan's budget yesterday—with its blistering partisanship and multiple distortions—was the kind Presidents usually outsource to some junior lieutenant.

Mr. Obama presented what some might call the false choice of merely preserving the government we have with no realistic plan for doing so,

Mr. Obama really went off on Mr. Ryan's plan to increase health-care competition and give consumers more control, barely stopping short of calling it murderous. It's hardly beyond criticism or debate, but the Ryan plan is neither Big Rock Candy Mountain nor some radical departure from American norms.

According to Internal Revenue Service data, the entire taxable income of everyone earning over $100,000 in 2008 was about $1.582 trillion. Even if all these Americans—most of whom are far from wealthy—were taxed at 100%, it wouldn't cover Mr. Obama's deficit for this year."

If you want to read moore. Here's the link. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703730104576260911986870054.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
That article fails to mention that this is an atypical deficit due to recession. It also fails to mention that we used to get 30% of our revenue from corporate taxes and now we only get 4%. It fails to mention that of the top 400 wealthiest Americans more than 1/3 of them don't even report enough income to be in the top tax bracket. We have billionaires who claim to be making under $250k per year. That is why this is a bullshit number. Most of the wealthy don't just report their profits as income, they shelter it in tax free corporations.

The official reported income might be ~$1.5 trillion, but that number is in no way a representation of what they are actually earning. It's a bullshit number that shows the absolute minimum income they could get away with reporting, not how much money they are actually earning.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
The major problem I have with Mr Ryan's plan is the once again, redistribution of wealth.. his plan calls for another 1 trillion in tax cuts to the wealthy, why they cut education and social services... That alone is insane.
Yep. His plan is class warfare.
 
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