Hyperinflation Inevitable for USA

[Charlie Ventura]

LOL I did not lose anything. Gas is going to go lower huh? When I was a child gasoline cost $.27 a gallon, when is it going to go back to that price?

When you have prices of almost all commodities rising at unbelievable rates, you can be assured that it isn't them becoming more expensive, its your dollar being devalued so it buys less.

Exactly. Just like in the bombing of Japan thread, its always those who didn't experience the past who speak out like experts. The fact is, since the FED was created, what was once a dollar worth full value, is now worth three cents. But don't worry, it will soon be worth that full dollar again. Right!

 

[mame]

LOL I did not lose anything. Gas is going to go lower huh? When I was a child gasoline cost $.27 a gallon, when is it going to go back to that price?

When you have prices of almost all commodities rising at unbelievable rates, you can be assured that it isn't them becoming more expensive, its your dollar being devalued so it buys less.

Times change old man, I bet when gas cost that much you were making only a couple bucks an hour.

Core inflation happens, my entire point is that current inflation levels are not a problem. The evidence is on my side.

 

[NoDrama]

Times change old man, I bet when gas cost that much you were making only a couple bucks an hour.

Core inflation happens, my entire point is that current inflation levels are not a problem. The evidence is on my side.

Core inflation is just inflation on things people don't need. When people have no money they don't buy things they don't need anymore, they only buy essentials. When no one is buying your product it makes it real hard to increase the price.

 

[mame]

Core inflation is just inflation on things people don't need. When people have no money they don't buy things they don't need anymore, they only buy essentials. When no one is buying your product it makes it real hard to increase the price.

Core inflation is the number economists use because food and oil is too volatile to be able to determine long term trends. Core inflation is low, that's all that matters. You're worried about a non-issue. It doesn't matter how much gas was a few decades ago, it matters how much of your income as a percentage goes towards gas. Right now, we are in an uptick - but historically, upwards trends in oil and food are usually followed with a nearly equal in size downward trend (so costs mostly even out over time). The end result ends up close to the core inflation numbers - a net loss for everyone of a couple percentage points. But this is just reality. Sub 2% core inflation is in fact low. In the early 80's inflation peaked over 10%... THAT'S hyperinflation. What we're experiencing now is comparable to a road bump or a pothole...What we experienced in the 80's was our economy being driven into a ditch. It's NOTHING compared to what could be happening or what has happened in the past... Current inflation levels are absolutely acceptable.

how about this, a few years from now we'll revisit this thread and we'll review the evidence. If hyperinflation does occur as you seem to think it will - than you win. If it does not - I will be the first to point it out. I'm pretty confident that current trends are NOT pointing towards hyperinflation... I guess we'll just have to wait and see in order to solve this debate.

 

[NoDrama]

I think you have hyperinflation confused with lots of inflation. 10% is high inflation but its not hyperinflation. Inflation is caused by an increase in the money supply and followed by the velocity of that money as it finds its way through the system. You can have lots of inflation and never have hyperinflation.

Hyperinflation is the loss of faith in a currency, this causes inflation to hit 100% or more PER DAY in some cases. Its when people will do anything to get rid of the currency as fast as possible and buy almost anything in an attempt to preserve purchasing power.

Faith in the US Dollar is rapidly diminishing. They have stolen all the gold once already, they have removed the gold backing of the currency already, they now have nothing left to do but print to infinity.

 

[mame]

I think you have hyperinflation confused with lots of inflation. 10% is high inflation but its not hyperinflation. Inflation is caused by an increase in the money supply and followed by the velocity of that money as it finds its way through the system. You can have lots of inflation and never have hyperinflation.

Hyperinflation is the loss of faith in a currency, this causes inflation to hit 100% or more PER DAY in some cases. Its when people will do anything to get rid of the currency as fast as possible and buy almost anything in an attempt to preserve purchasing power.

Faith in the US Dollar is rapidly diminishing. They have stolen all the gold once already, they have removed the gold backing of the currency already, they now have nothing left to do but print to infinity.

The Fed has shown itself quite capable of tightening monetary policy when needed (Volcker in the 80's did it, Alan Greenspan did it). Your assertion that they'll print money into infinity doesn't jibe with history... You obviously dont realize how much these guys fear inflation(hint: Greenspan fought inflation even when core inflation was below 1%)... If inflation was a problem QE2 would've never been implemented.

again, we'll have to wait and see who's right... I'm gonna go read a bit before I go to bed. Goodnight, it's been a pleasure arguing with you.

 

[sso]

well, it comes to mind, the governments in the west, us among them, are always borrowing more and more to spend.

even borrowing to pay off old debts.

what happens to property you keep borrowing on? sell the place and still owe 4 times more than you got for it?

lol, isnt it china thats lending alot of that money? soon they are going to own the u.s

 

[NoDrama]

The Fed has shown itself quite capable of tightening monetary policy when needed (Volcker in the 80's did it, Alan Greenspan did it). Your assertion that they'll print money into infinity doesn't jibe with history... You obviously dont realize how much these guys fear inflation(hint: Greenspan fought inflation even when core inflation was below 1%)... If inflation was a problem QE2 would've never been implemented.

again, we'll have to wait and see who's right... I'm gonna go read a bit before I go to bed. Goodnight, it's been a pleasure arguing with you.

The only way they can ever pay off this massive debt is to flood the system with massive inflation, the only way to do that is to keep the printing presses running 24/7 ( Obviously 97% of currency is digital). US citizens do not have any real wealth for the government to confiscate to pay off the debt, they already took all the gold.

Core CPI was changed 2 years ago to include housing, why do you suppose they all of a sudden changed the formula to include housing? Quickly dropping prices? That would make a huge impact on how low the CPI would be if you had a large asset as part of the formula in price free fall.

If they stop printing Money you will see the markets tank as fast as the flash crash, treasuries will increase in yield overnight and the total of income tax will be used just to pay interest. Perhaps they will seize 401k and IRA's to fund the debt?

 

[Mellowman2112]

Core inflation is a measure of the shit that doesnt inflate due to lack of demand so the Fed can lie to you and point to no core inflation, meanwhile my food prices have doubled in the past year. We are being played by the elites hardcore.

Core inflation is the number economists use because food and oil is too volatile to be able to determine long term trends. Core inflation is low, that's all that matters. You're worried about a non-issue. It doesn't matter how much gas was a few decades ago, it matters how much of your income as a percentage goes towards gas. Right now, we are in an uptick - but historically, upwards trends in oil and food are usually followed with a nearly equal in size downward trend (so costs mostly even out over time). The end result ends up close to the core inflation numbers - a net loss for everyone of a couple percentage points. But this is just reality. Sub 2% core inflation is in fact low. In the early 80's inflation peaked over 10%... THAT'S hyperinflation. What we're experiencing now is comparable to a road bump or a pothole...What we experienced in the 80's was our economy being driven into a ditch. It's NOTHING compared to what could be happening or what has happened in the past... Current inflation levels are absolutely acceptable.

how about this, a few years from now we'll revisit this thread and we'll review the evidence. If hyperinflation does occur as you seem to think it will - than you win. If it does not - I will be the first to point it out. I'm pretty confident that current trends are NOT pointing towards hyperinflation... I guess we'll just have to wait and see in order to solve this debate.

 

[Mellowman2112]

Your basing you hypothesis on a supposition that the FEd actually gives a shit about the US economy. They have their own agenda. It would cost the Fed squat if the dollar blew up completely ala zimbabwe. After all they created the money from thin air. The owners of the FED seek power and what better way to consolidate power and eliminate freedoms than Food riots and the total destruction of the dollar. The owners of the private federal reserve would be very happy to see us reduced to serfdom. Chipped like cattle. Check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXb-LrVkuwM

The Fed has shown itself quite capable of tightening monetary policy when needed (Volcker in the 80's did it, Alan Greenspan did it). Your assertion that they'll print money into infinity doesn't jibe with history... You obviously dont realize how much these guys fear inflation(hint: Greenspan fought inflation even when core inflation was below 1%)... If inflation was a problem QE2 would've never been implemented.

again, we'll have to wait and see who's right... I'm gonna go read a bit before I go to bed. Goodnight, it's been a pleasure arguing with you.

 

[Mellowman2112]

Krugman also days that deficit spending is good in a recession. Krugman toes the line of the elites or his textbook would not have been printed and distributed to colleges. If you want an economist that knows his shit and not afraid to dish out the truth check out Milton Friedman.

Everything they sell is effected by Gas prices which happens to be one of the two most volatile commodities (food being the other, which they also deal with). The prices will go down again. As Krugman points out, short-run spikes in inflation generally reverse themselves.

 

[The Ruiner]

Your basing you hypothesis on a supposition that the FEd actually gives a shit about the US economy. They have their own agenda. It would cost the Fed squat if the dollar blew up completely ala zimbabwe. After all they created the money from thin air. The owners of the FED seek power and what better way to consolidate power and eliminate freedoms than Food riots and the total destruction of the dollar. The owners of the private federal reserve would be very happy to see us reduced to serfdom. Chipped like cattle. Check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXb-LrVkuwM

Dude...wow...If the dollar "Blew up ala Zimbabwe" the world would shut down overnight. The Feds interest is MAKING money, not eviscerating the system that allows it do so (and subsequently allows us to live lives of unparalleled security). Whether you like it or not, this paradigm works, and you are a product of it. Your free-speech is entirely dependent upon the successes of high-level economics. Don't delude yourself into thinking that if the US came upon SEVERELY tough times that you would somehow be better off. Bernanke and Geithner have fucking miracled us through the last 3 years. Does everyone have amnesia? Do we not recall when the end of 2007 when financial collapse was eminent? Has it happened? Give those fuckers a round of applause for keeping this ship afloat and giving stoners the luxury to bitch and moan from sturdily built insulated homes superfluously growing a crop indoors that requires enough energy input to bring entire nations online to the power grid system...

Yeah, goddamn those elites....WTF?

 

[Mellowman2112]

Thanks for you response Ruiner, I see your point and you would be totally right if things were actually as they seem. But consider this.....IF they had of let the banks go that were week, B of A, wells, washington mutual and Aig The dollar would still be strong. house prices would be a fifth of what they are right now. Grain prices would be a quarter of what they are today. Our standard of living would have actually risen. For those with jobs that is haha. Paying the FDIC insurance would have been cheaper than qe2 and qe3. But you are right that on the surface it is less pain than letting the banks take their deserved fall. But they interupted the natural order of things. I would not be better off if the us came on severely tough times why would I believe that?

Do you not wonder why JP morgan and Goldman were unscathed by this? They own the FED along with Rothschildes who owns 57% of the Feds stock through stock ownership of JP morgan and other Fed stockholders. They were unscathed because they planned the whole event. What you see on cnbc is what they want you to see, a carefully crafted drama. Yes my free speech is entirely dependant on the success of high level economics and that is why their is no motivation of the elites to save the economy or the dollar quite the contrary If their motivation is power and not money. They have all the money they need and bet your Bippy that their money is in Gold and swiss francs and commodity backed currencies like the Aussie dollar..Hmm could that be a factor in why the dollar has plunged so much, as they move their money out of dollars before the impending implosion? So what I am saying is power motivates these puppet masters of nations. They would be quite happy to have you have to produce your RFID chipped ID card to get your bowl of soup in the bread line. They tell you what a great save they made on CNBC as the continue to roll out their plan. As far as the world shutting down overnight let me digest that and get back to you on that. My knee jerk reaction to your statment is that the Central bankers own the politicians and whatever currency is chosen to replace the dollar you can rest assured they will be in charge of the printing presses. Meanwhile their wealth is parked in gold and land etcetera. These people believe the planet is overpopulated by two thirds. They dont give a shit if we all croaked of starvation. Once you realize that the Elites do exist it changes everything. I refer to the real owners of the world. Those that own the democrates and republicans the whigs torries etc etc. Check out the Money Masters on youtube and then research and see if it is true.

Dude...wow...If the dollar "Blew up ala Zimbabwe" the world would shut down overnight. The Feds interest is MAKING money, not eviscerating the system that allows it do so (and subsequently allows us to live lives of unparalleled security). Whether you like it or not, this paradigm works, and you are a product of it. Your free-speech is entirely dependent upon the successes of high-level economics. Don't delude yourself into thinking that if the US came upon SEVERELY tough times that you would somehow be better off. Bernanke and Geithner have fucking miracled us through the last 3 years. Does everyone have amnesia? Do we not recall when the end of 2007 when financial collapse was eminent? Has it happened? Give those fuckers a round of applause for keeping this ship afloat and giving stoners the luxury to bitch and moan from sturdily built insulated homes superfluously growing a crop indoors that requires enough energy input to bring entire nations online to the power grid system...

Yeah, goddamn those elites....WTF?

 

[The Ruiner]

Thanks for you response Ruiner, I see your point and you would be totally right if things were actually as they seem. But consider this.....IF they had of let the banks go that were week, B of A, wells, washington mutual and Aig The dollar would still be strong. house prices would be a fifth of what they are right now. Grain prices would be a quarter of what they are today. Our standard of living would have actually risen. For those with jobs that is haha. Paying the FDIC insurance would have been cheaper than qe2 and qe3. But you are right that on the surface it is less pain than letting the banks take their deserved fall. But they interupted the natural order of things. I would not be better off if the us came on severely tough times why would I believe that?

Do you not wonder why JP morgan and Goldman were unscathed by this? They own the FED along with Rothschildes who owns 57% of the Feds stock through stock ownership of JP morgan and other Fed stockholders. They were unscathed because they planned the whole event. What you see on cnbc is what they want you to see, a carefully crafted drama. Yes my free speech is entirely dependant on the success of high level economics and that is why their is no motivation of the elites to save the economy or the dollar quite the contrary If their motivation is power and not money. They have all the money they need and bet your Bippy that their money is in Gold and swiss francs and commodity backed currencies like the Aussie dollar..Hmm could that be a factor in why the dollar has plunged so much, as they move their money out of dollars before the impending implosion? So what I am saying is power motivates these puppet masters of nations. They would be quite happy to have you have to produce your RFID chipped ID card to get your bowl of soup in the bread line. They tell you what a great save they made on CNBC as the continue to roll out their plan. As far as the world shutting down overnight let me digest that and get back to you on that. My knee jerk reaction to your statment is that the Central bankers own the politicians and whatever currency is chosen to replace the dollar you can rest assured they will be in charge of the printing presses. Meanwhile their wealth is parked in gold and land etcetera. These people believe the planet is overpopulated by two thirds. They dont give a shit if we all croaked of starvation. Once you realize that the Elites do exist it changes everything. I refer to the real owners of the world. Those that own the democrates and republicans the whigs torries etc etc. Check out the Money Masters on youtube and then research and see if it is true.

Dude...if all of those banks went bust, our country would have gone down in a blaze. There would be MASS panic and hysteria. BofA was originally called BANK OF CHINA...Wells Fargo was one of the strongest banks at the time. But, the base reality is that the world cannot have Americans penniless, or put under Martial Law...because our economy fuels the world. Even if people are moving their assets to other countries, those countries will still be producing goods making their way to America...its a symbiotic relationship.

If those companies went under there would be absolutely NO INVESTOR CONFIDENCE in this country...Everyone with any remaining assets here would have pulled out immediately and we would be stuck...but it cant and it wont happen....because as fucked up as it is, the WORLD needs us to continue business as usual. There is no replacement for our domestic market, and elites around the globe know this...Imagine that OPEC lost its main customer, China loses its main customer...fucking total destruction across the board. It's strategially infeasible for ANYONE to see America go completely in the gutter. No matter how bad things seem, we are still WAY better off than many across the world...

Lunch time folks...PEACE.

 

[Mellowman2112]

Ruiner, exactly and we will have mass panic and hysteria after the dollar falls through the floor and of course they already have the solution. ¨ due to the problems we are going to have to institute a cashless society and a new currency for the Americas.¨ Here is your rfid chip and without it you cant buy or sell. These rfid chips can be read by recievers at every onramp and offramp, everywhere. They create the problem so they can solve it at the expense of our freedom. Please at least agree to check out the money masters on youtube.

 

[mame]

Krugman also days that deficit spending is good in a recession. Krugman toes the line of the elites or his textbook would not have been printed and distributed to colleges. If you want an economist that knows his shit and not afraid to dish out the truth check out Milton Friedman.

...

I've already made my thoughts on Freidman's work known. Some of his work is generally accepted by everyone regardless of idealogy but his assertion that government spending multipliers is always below 1 has been proven incorrect as well as his assertion that the New Deal prolonged the Great depression which, I'd argue, was borderline intellectual dishonesty(Milton Friedman of course associated with the Goldwater campaign, the first major surge of movement conservatism - which led to the right wing propaganda machines we all know and love today... The Heritage Foundation for example).

I like how you mention Zimbabwe(shows just how much you really know on the subject)! Too bad you failed to mention Britain(90s), South Korea(97-98 ), Argentina (2002) and Sweden(90s) - who all used inflationary policies to great success. Conservatives repeatedly point to Zimbabwe as the end all be all example of what inflationary policies as if every situation was one size fits all - they aren't. Right now, inflation is low... That means that devaluing the USD can and will help the economy, for reasons I've already pointed out in this thread and throughout these boards. This chapter from a textbook is very relevant to this discussion as it makes a distinction between Zimbabwe and 1922-23 Germany's Hyperinflation versus the type of moderate inflation (like that of the 70's and early 80's... over 10%) that we could see soon in the future. There is a difference.

Also, if you have a problem with Dr. Paul Krugman, why dont you try backing it up with some examples of where he has been wrong lately? He won his nobel prize based off of his work with the liquidity trap(depression economics) and international affairs - BOTH of these areas have been very relevant the last few years. He is one of a few economists in the U.S. that understands almost fully our current economic situation and how it differs from say - Zimbabwe. The fact that you bow only to Friedman and none other shows me just how entrenched you are in ideology(or maybe, you just dont know as much on the subject as you think you do)...

 

[The Ruiner]

Zimbabwe's unemployment rate also happens to be the highest in the world....95%...Yes, 95% are unemployed. Just thought that might add a little clarity to the disparate differences between the US situation and the one in Zimbabwe...

 

[Mellowman2112]

No need to attack me for recommending an alternative viewpoint. Please dont label me as a conservative or liberal as I am neither. If you want to label me as a Constitutionalist or libertarian thats ok.

In response: What are you talking about? Argentina defaulted and their bond investors had to take a haircut. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_economic_crisis_(1999–2002) The only thing that saved Argentina in the end was that they produce alot of food and raw materials so their currency rose thus ending the spiral. What saved Argentina was an increased demand from China for their food and raw materials.

Friedman is antidrugwar and for legalising drugs so how conservative
was he really?

If Krugman was annointed with a Nobel prize by the Establishment that tells me all I need to know about the guy. Obamo didnt do shit and got a nobel prize for jawboning about removing troops from the middle east which he never did.

How does reducing your purchasing power help the economy? Reducing your incentive to save helps the economy? As far as me bowing to any economist you have the wrong guy.

...

I've already made my thoughts on Freidman's work known. Some of his work is generally accepted by everyone regardless of idealogy but his assertion that government spending multipliers is always below 1 has been proven incorrect as well as his assertion that the New Deal prolonged the Great depression which, I'd argue, was borderline intellectual dishonesty(Milton Friedman of course associated with the Goldwater campaign, the first major surge of movement conservatism - which led to the right wing propaganda machines we all know and love today... The Heritage Foundation for example).

I like how you mention Zimbabwe(shows just how much you really know on the subject)! Too bad you failed to mention Britain(90s), South Korea(97-98 ), Argentina (2002) and Sweden(90s) - who all used inflationary policies to great success. Conservatives repeatedly point to Zimbabwe as the end all be all example of what inflationary policies as if every situation was one size fits all - they aren't. Right now, inflation is low... That means that devaluing the USD can and will help the economy, for reasons I've already pointed out in this thread and throughout these boards. This chapter from a textbook is very relevant to this discussion as it makes a distinction between Zimbabwe and 1922-23 Germany's Hyperinflation versus the type of moderate inflation (like that of the 70's and early 80's... over 10%) that we could see soon in the future. There is a difference.

Also, if you have a problem with Dr. Paul Krugman, why dont you try backing it up with some examples of where he has been wrong lately? He won his nobel prize based off of his work with the liquidity trap(depression economics) and international affairs - BOTH of these areas have been very relevant the last few years. He is one of a few economists in the U.S. that understands almost fully our current economic situation and how it differs from say - Zimbabwe. The fact that you bow only to Friedman and none other shows me just how entrenched you are in ideology(or maybe, you just dont know as much on the subject as you think you do)...

 

[Mellowman2112]

In response to Ruiner: We arent in a zimbabwean situation yet but that doesnt mean if we keep mismanaging things that we couldnt be eventually.

 

[The Ruiner]

In response to Ruiner: We arent in a zimbabwean situation yet but that doesnt mean if we keep mismanaging things that we couldnt be eventually.

Dude...as it has already been argued ad naseum by myself here, it is impossible for the US to reach the Zimbabwean level...The WORLD cannot tolerate it. That is just a reality.