2010 #1 - Indoor Coco-Perlite Hindu Kush & Hailley's Comet 400w

[McFonz]

To preserve the Hindu Kush genetics you'll need to grow a few males to avoid a bottle neck in the genetics.
I don't think the Hailley's Comet is an IBL so you will creating F2s which are less stable.

To flower males you can build a seperate chamber (I use a PC case) or flower them in small plants near the females and when clusters form cut the flowering branches and put them in a glass of water standing sideways when the flowers are over a sheet of aluminum foil.
The better way in my opinion is to move the plants to a box with one CFL, small fan WITH A CARBON FILTER (or no fan at all) and let them flower in another place.

You always risk pollination but usually that ends up in up to 10 unwanted seeds if you'r not going crazy with it. Also, males flower much quicker than females - usually the females can't recieve the pollen when its released, or barely can.

Don't bother extracting whatever is in them, its just too little to worth it. You'd better use female fan leaves.

 

[asaph]

So yesterday I paid a visit to a friend who is growing just a few days before me (his cycle) and saw that his plant had tiny balls too that just had hairs come out of them. So I put the suspected males back in the box, on account of not being sure about them. Tell me what you think. I'm still pretty convinced that they are males (especially in light of the contrast to other plants of the same strain that have pulled out hairs already with no apparent balls, and also because these balls seem to be in clusters). Tell me what you think:
(insert inline doesn't seem to be working right now, but refer to the orange pics through 30X loupe at the bottom)

Other than that, all is ok. I got a nice canopy and I'm controlling it with aggressive supercropping like I've said. I'm still having thoughts about scrogging it, but if I don't do it like... today - it'll be too late. I think today I can still fill a scrog, as I already have a full canopy. After reading a bit I decided to keep the upper fan leaves, and not even tuck them. Fan leaves are the main source of energy for budding, and the more fan leaves I have closer to the light the better, so I reckon. I'm letting them dry for the moment, and I think I'm gonna visit the shop and get some more ferts, the HESI coco bottle is running out. I think I'll try H&G now, or Atami, haven't decided. I need the regular coco fert, and some PK for a bit later on. Gonna start using supervit again for the next feeding, and also up the EC to 1.8, should be good. Since I gave them 1.5 I've seen improvement on the leaves, gonna keep that up. I just have to stop panicking. It will be alright

I think I'll skip breeding this time. I didn't clone either - but i have other strains I wanna try for next cycle, and still have a few seeds of the hindu kush in case I really like it. Next cycle I'll try to clone maybe. For now what I need is to succeed with this one. Keeping focused.

 

[McFonz]

those are males, and keep the pollen even if you'r not going to use it this run. when you want, mix all the pollen from good looking males and pollinate the girls. You'll get tons of new seeds to keep going.
I'm making F2s of Jilly Bean, Jack the Ripper, 3rd Dimension and maybe a few crosses. I just get a clone of a female in a 2L water bottle, grow it a bit on the side of the cab and pollinate the whole thing.

H&G should be very good, I'd go with that.

Fan leaves are NOT the main source of energy for the plants. Test it - pluck the upper fan leaves of one of the plants and see how it goes.

CLONE you plants. You'll need to remove some lower branches that doesn't get direct light soon enough anyway.


Cheers.

 

[asaph]

those are males, and keep the pollen even if you'r not going to use it this run. when you want, mix all the pollen from good looking males and pollinate the girls. You'll get tons of new seeds to keep going.
I'm making F2s of Jilly Bean, Jack the Ripper, 3rd Dimension and maybe a few crosses. I just get a clone of a female in a 2L water bottle, grow it a bit on the side of the cab and pollinate the whole thing.

H&G should be very good, I'd go with that.

Fan leaves are NOT the main source of energy for the plants. Test it - pluck the upper fan leaves of one of the plants and see how it goes.

CLONE you plants. You'll need to remove some lower branches that doesn't get direct light soon enough anyway.


Cheers.

as always, great advice. chapeau!

So i'll give them a few more days in the box, and then take branches of males and females and put them in water a closed box. I can actually grow seeds with unrooted branches in plain water? that will work?

I'll test it the way you said! and report. What I said before was not from experience of course but from stuff I've read that made sense. However there are always contradicting views - I'll test it.

Can I still clone though? Isn't it too late? I've read that flowering plants are very hard to root? I tried to clone one in a DWC (from a low branch) and that didn't really work. Afterwards I put it outside in soil and it rained for a couple of days and was moist outside, it rooted well. I'll try to figure out a way to go about it, but I'll have to be quick.

 

[McFonz]

If you take the male branches 2-3 days before they open up they will release pollen even unrooted in a cup of water in complete darkness.
Female branches won't make seeds this way. You can take clones from a female this way, grow one for a week until it throws some roots and flower it. Then 3-4 weeks on 12\12 you can pollinate it to make seeds. It take about a week longer than a strain usually takes.

I usually pollinate bottom branches - I cover whatever I don't want seeded in a plastic bag and use a small brush to pollinate the buds I want. Then I put a plastic bag over the pollinated branch tied with a rubber-band for 2 days.
After 2 days I take off the bag and spray the whole plant thoroughly with water to kill any stray pollen.

Its like in humans. Half assed drunk and beat up male can release pollen but a female needs to be somewhat healthy to give birth.

You can take clones up to the harvest point but they take time to re-veg.
Usually up to 4 weeks in is no problem.

My favorite way is this one:
1. get 2 clear plastic cups.
2. heat up a small screw and poke one hole in the middle bottom of one cup and 3 small holes in the side on the other cups bottom.
3. fill the cup with 1 hole with you medium of choise. If you use coco you better rinse it with 0.4mS EC solution of nutrients. If you use soil use distilled water to moisten it up.
4. put the other cup upside down on top of the first cup and use duct tape to tape them together.
5. label your cup.
6. put it in a place with weak light, the more hours of light per day the better.
7. wait a week, water the medium and wait another week.
8. check for roots after those 2 weeks.


Cheers.

 

[asaph]

I couldn't battle stretching no more, so I scrogged. It was violent and painful, but I am very happy with the results. Only shame is I didn't do it much much earlier.

Also had an outbreak of gnats, more of them this time, but I'm letting them dry thoroughly now to control that. Other than that, all is well. I took branches from the males and killed them, transplanted two plants that were still in small pots. Still haven't gotten to cloning the females, but I'm hoping to do that soon, too.

 

[McFonz]

Get more branches to the outer parts - don't place all your branches in the middle.
That way you'll let lower shoots grow up and fill the SCROG better.

Mulching your pots also helps preventing fungus gnats.

 

[asaph]

Get more branches to the outer parts - don't place all your branches in the middle.
That way you'll let lower shoots grow up and fill the SCROG better.

Mulching your pots also helps preventing fungus gnats.

so yeah, I really tried on that but that's the best I could do - and i've hurt them too much already. The outer parts are very low on light because the light is pretty low, so I think it's alright, they're actually covering about 80x80 cm which I think is max for 400w. Also, because of the unique structure of the hindu, almost all of the branches have in fact grown to be lit, and only a few are left stranded below (mostly the afghan). I cut some of them, but I think they are bad for cloning with no active (bright) growing tips (am I right?).

The gnat problem is indeed alarming, they are flying like mad in there (I think maybe today it's a bit better). I put yellow sticks on top of the pots where I could, but mulching will be a problem since the pots are overflowing with medium as it is. I know they should go away if I let dry completely so that's what I'm doing right now (the coco I haven't watered since friday and the soil since last week - using foliar feed if they seem hungry). If that doesn't work, I'll have to get that Super Tracer thing they sell.

When I killed the males, I noticed that some of the ones in the coco had very weak roots with a darker color (off-white) compared to soil plants who had thick white healthy roots that were not torn easily. Perhaps this is from the larvae? Or some other problem. In terms of growth, I haven't really seen any substantial difference so far between coco and soil that would justify the coco taking much more water and nutes, but I'm waiting for harvest to let the grams speak and the smoke sing and decide on that. I am looking forward to trying your method with compost etc, it sounds very promising.

How should I feed the soil plants now? I've decided to use my coco nutes on them, I think that shouldn't be a problem, but I'm having trouble figuering out EC level and frequency. Last watering they got about 0.6 of the coco nutes with some magnesium too and tap water, and I think I'll feed them (perhaps low) this time too.

Yesterday I got some more HESI nutes (coco and pk13/14), I figured I was happy with them so far (except the occasional mag def.) so why change.

My friend who grows has had both of his plants herm on him now :\ It's bagseed, but quality, and it's really a shame, he's a very good grower. Is there anything you think he can do? He's just plucking them one by one. I even tried calling the hydro shops and get them to maybe order the Dutch Master Reverse (heard of that?) but they just laughed at me, they are SUCH assholes, I really dislike them.

Also, any advice on how to spot hermies on time? I'm really on the lookout because I'm also growing two of his plants, so I won't be surprised if they herm on me as well, in which case I'll probably chop them, no risk taking there. In my previous grows, I was growing hermies all the way, and didn't realize that even when I had big yellow bananas all over my plants.

 

[McFonz]

I've used a 400W in around 1.5 square meter just fine.
Just lower the screen and bend the plants to cover the light, then adjust the light to fit.
Some small branches might snap - it happens and in this stage it doesn't mean much as other branches will take their place.

You just need a cm depth free in the pot to mulch. its best to use an ince to two inches but 1cm works much better than nothing.
Also, you can stack your mulch a bit higher than your pot is, the water just run through it and doesn't reshape it much.

the weak roots sounds like root rot to me. Are you using catching trays for the runoff from the coco plants? If so - REMOVE THEM.
The mix of compost, bought soil and perlite works but won't give you a huge yield. However, its a good start, a very cheap option and stupid-friendly. Tweak your way from there.

In soil look for EC of 1.2 at the beginning of flowering and 1.7 at the end. That usually works.
Go feed-water-feed-water, not straight feeding like with coco.

I love Hesi coco but my bottle went stale after a year so I've got rid of it. Instead I bought a bottle of BioNova supermix soil and as its a 1L bottle (the smallest they have) I'm using it for my coco plants as well.

Hermies are a problem. I discard everything that pops nanners and don't bother working with it.
You could pluck the nanners or just grow seeded buds.
And it sounds like your should switch to another hydro shop. There are 3 - choose one that you like better.
You could try to get dutch master reverse but its ain't sold in the country and no store imports it. The best way to get a bottle would be importing it yourself.
But again, I just discard hermies.

I watch my buds since week 3 for nanners. If one shows I pluck it and watch the plant closely everyday for 2-3 weeks to see if it was a one time deal. It usually ain't.


The only hemie plant I bear growing is my Jack the Ripper cut. It throws late flowering nanners and the random nanners throughout flowering. However, there are only a few of them (2 nanners a week at the end of flowering or so) and the buds rarely get seeded. It worth it only because of the amazing buds this thing grows.


Good luck

 

[asaph]

I've used a 400W in around 1.5 square meter just fine.
Just lower the screen and bend the plants to cover the light, then adjust the light to fit.
Some small branches might snap - it happens and in this stage it doesn't mean much as other branches will take their place.

You just need a cm depth free in the pot to mulch. its best to use an ince to two inches but 1cm works much better than nothing.
Also, you can stack your mulch a bit higher than your pot is, the water just run through it and doesn't reshape it much.

the weak roots sounds like root rot to me. Are you using catching trays for the runoff from the coco plants? If so - REMOVE THEM.
The mix of compost, bought soil and perlite works but won't give you a huge yield. However, its a good start, a very cheap option and stupid-friendly. Tweak your way from there.

In soil look for EC of 1.2 at the beginning of flowering and 1.7 at the end. That usually works.
Go feed-water-feed-water, not straight feeding like with coco.

I love Hesi coco but my bottle went stale after a year so I've got rid of it. Instead I bought a bottle of BioNova supermix soil and as its a 1L bottle (the smallest they have) I'm using it for my coco plants as well.

Hermies are a problem. I discard everything that pops nanners and don't bother working with it.
You could pluck the nanners or just grow seeded buds.
And it sounds like your should switch to another hydro shop. There are 3 - choose one that you like better.
You could try to get dutch master reverse but its ain't sold in the country and no store imports it. The best way to get a bottle would be importing it yourself.
But again, I just discard hermies.

I watch my buds since week 3 for nanners. If one shows I pluck it and watch the plant closely everyday for 2-3 weeks to see if it was a one time deal. It usually ain't.


The only hemie plant I bear growing is my Jack the Ripper cut. It throws late flowering nanners and the random nanners throughout flowering. However, there are only a few of them (2 nanners a week at the end of flowering or so) and the buds rarely get seeded. It worth it only because of the amazing buds this thing grows.


Good luck

Yeah I guess it's overwatering, although it isn't seen at all above ground. It could be because of the craziness I had at start with watering 4 times a day. Everyone does say that coco cannot be overwatered, but I guess it can. Since I stopped that I have been letting them dry some but not thoroughly. I wonder if what I saw now was damage done then, or continuous, or perhaps related to the gnats (which are also encouraged by moisture of course).

More important question is what I should do. Perhaps try h2o2? Trouble is, except presence/absence of gnats, I have no indication of the root state, which is good of course - my plants look healthy. But still, a healthy root system is very important for later on. How can I heal them?

(they don't sit in the runoff, except some leftover on the floor maybe which dries).

 

[McFonz]

Probably continuous.
What to do? Considering your medium probably don't have enough beneficial bacteria and fungi to get the work done by simply adding sugars I'd go with some enzymes product and small doses of sugars such as molasses, honey, sylan, dextarose etc.
That should aid in the decomposition of the dead \ sick roots.
Extra K and rooting hormones (you could use either a root excelerator product of half a teaspoon of wood ashes and a teaspoon of rooting hormone per 10L of water)


How to check how the roots are doing? If they hold the medium you could just pull up the rootball and put it back after you take a peek. They should be very white and perky.
Brown = trouble. It also attracks gnats.


By the way, check out my new journal

 

[asaph]

3 weeks into flowering now - time for a small update, not much to tell.

last night I plucked what seemed to be a single sack for one of the HKs in coco. It's a problematic plant, seems to be a lot more hungry than the rest of them, and I've given it more than them to respond, up to 2100, but no major improvement. it's upside is still doing very nicely, but below the screen it's been losing leaves more rapidly than the rest. I figure it's no biggy, these leaves are just storage anyway as far as I'm concerned, but still. Actually, this may have to do with the root problem I've discussed. I have a feeling it may have a bad case of rot. I still haven't gotten to the sugars part. It is kinda scary. But I think I'll try on this one. Tell me, what's better, black strap molasses, sylan or honey? and what dosage? Sadly I don't have a root xl or enzymes. I'm not sure, if it's really worth the purchase - if I see more sacks on it, it's going out at any case, won't risk.

I'm getting a bit concerned about humidity now. above 70% when they wake up, even now when weather is a bit more dry. Spring is supposed to be hot and dry, not cold and damp! I'll add a rotating fan (those flat plastic ones) very soon.

They are flowering nicely, I would like to see it going a bit faster, truthfully it doesn't seem like they're going to end in 6-7 weeks like the seed company said. but i'm hoping for surprises.

 

[McFonz]

The sacks are probably from overfertilizing. It might be genetics too, anyhow, lower the EC and keep an eye for any more nanners popping.
For root rot you should use a good flush with H2O2 (I don't remember the dosage, google it up) and keep the medium fairly dry for 2-3 weeks.

Sugars act pretty much like a medium cleaner - they feed the fungi and bacteria that munch on the dead mater.
Blackstrap molasses contains mag. and K which help to feed the plant along with the sucrose contant (complex sugar).
Honey works pretty much like molasses.
I don't know the composition of sylan but it should be pretty similar.
You should add a tablespoon of any of those into a gallon of water. (4 Liters)

70% RH in flowering is the top bar, you want it lower if possible. Fans really help in that area.

Finding a true 6 weeks (42 days) flowering pheno is uncommon in the cannabis worls. Usually the ones that do finish flowering that fast are poor yielders.
I got a 42 days flowering pheno of the 3rd Dimension by TGA seeds that yield nicely for such a quick flowerer, but thats ain't common.
Usually 6-7 weeks by the breeder means 7 weeks since the beginning of budding, and then you usually add a few more days.
Buds begin to form around a week after the transition to a 12\12 light regime. So a 6-7 week strain is likely to finish in 8.5 weeks since the flip.

Have you checked my journal?

 

[asaph]

I have! Nothing constructive to say though, except your grow world sounds better than amsterdam

 

[asaph]

plan for the plant having difficulties, it's not completely dry now, so I will give it another day or two:

day 1 - flush with h2o2 and very low EC (300? just enough to keep pH from being whack). Day 2 - 1500EC, add bioheaven for enzymes (I think I have a bottle that's closed), and a very small amount of honey. Feed again in one week or when very dry, perhaps same amount. aye? Perhaps foliar feed in the middle of the week.


it's also quite hot there now. In the shade, temp is 28.5 with the room door open.

My cooltube fan is a centrifugal one (the cheap ones, SMT-100, only 160cfm), so I'm thinking to replace that with a stronger one (460 cmf) that's selling pretty cheap right now in HS, only 520. It's ducted to the window. I also have a vent (those regular 6" vents) that extracts air from the cabinet into the room, and a small 160cfm for intake, no ducting there either. It's not ideal, no. I'm kinda scared to show more than one duct in the window though. I've actually thought of perhaps combining two outtake ducts into one, I think that shouln't be too hard. And maybe intake ducting is not very necessary as the room temp isn't really higher than outside night temp in days like these.

question is, will getting that duct fan make a substantial difference? worth the money? I've actually been saving for it, cuz I figured I might need it. Forecast is for nice weather in the next week or so, but seeing as I will be flowering late into June, I'm most likely gonna need a better way to handle temps.

 

[McFonz]

Give the plant a watering with H2O2 and no nutes.
Then on the next watering give it 1.5EC and keep it there.
Don't flush anything.

The SMT is the Cata vents, right?
Their bigger vents are load as hell. I hate them.
The metal ones are much much much better in every aspect. Also, I don't buy in HS.

I use a 500m3^h vent for my 600 tent and a 20" industrial vent pushing air from below the light. Works well for my size.

Ducting could be found at 92 per 10 meter pack at air conditioning stores. I got a pack of that and it works very well.

Cheers.

 

[asaph]

Give the plant a watering with H2O2 and no nutes.
Then on the next watering give it 1.5EC and keep it there.
Don't flush anything.

The SMT is the Cata vents, right?
Their bigger vents are load as hell. I hate them.
The metal ones are much much much better in every aspect. Also, I don't buy in HS.

I use a 500m3^h vent for my 600 tent and a 20" industrial vent pushing air from below the light. Works well for my size.

Ducting could be found at 92 per 10 meter pack at air conditioning stores. I got a pack of that and it works very well.

Cheers.

load you mean noisy? I'll be sure to check them in the store, though probably not as noisy as the 6" vent. I can't afford industrial venting I'm afraid. Unless you know where I can buy it for similar prices The metal ones in HS cost 3 times as much at least. I do hate HS, but I have no alternative in my city... and besides like I said before, all these shops (4 of them I think) sell the same products for the same prices with the same shitty service.

 

[McFonz]

They are very noisy compared to the metal ones. The metal ones does cost more but they also last much longer.
The industrial fans cost around 200 nis. I got 2 for the summer, and not for the grow cabs. Very effective.

The hydro nets sell pretty much the same for the same price but I go to the same place always and so I get discounts and freebies (samples and such) and I always got a great service.
And most important - I would never go to a hydro store in my city.

 

[asaph]

after i watered with h2o2 i noticed the bottom of the plant was looking slightly better - one leaf that was lying on the medium was upright again. but today I see that all plants are showing "burned" tips. even soil plants who got only 0.25EC last watering with honey, and coco plants who got 1.5EC with no honey, and coco plants that got 1.5 with honey! a deficiency perhaps?

also, I checked pH last feeding. I put 1 part medium and 5 parts pure h2o 7.0 pH, mixed thoroughly. At first it showed 6.5pH, similar to runoff pH. but after 24 hours, pH of soil was 5.5! I'm concerned. This could be why their bottom part doesnt seem so good (the part above scrog all looks good). Could this be because i've been using hydroponic nutes in soil? perhaps I should stop doing that. what do you think?

pics:



pics below scrog (notice "burn" signs):

 

[McFonz]

Its because they make the medium more ecidic as the nutes concentration builds up.
You shouldn't pH your solution.

The burnt tips might come from the H2O2.