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I really have to question your level and degree of honesty. I only did a quick scan and I might have missed some of my messages about being ripped off by Dr. Greenthumb, but interestingly enough the message right below some of those listed below were from you. So how did you manage to miss what I said? How did you manage to miss it when in a case or two you actually replied to what I had said?
How did you miss all that is below, especially when the following message was from you and sometimes in reply to that I had written? So, do you have a learning disability or short term memory loss or maybe just questionably honesty, just like Dr. Greenthumb? (Some of the messages included quotes from others. I did not go through them all putting what others said into separate quotation boxes. If you have any question of if I said something or someone else did, that it was part of a quote, you have the message number for each, research it yourself.)
Message # 73:
Nope ... I have no interest in explaining anything about a Dr. Greenthumb strain. I won't have anything to do with his strains since a handful of years back when he was selling what he claimed was true Acapulco Gold and I tried it and it wasn't anywhere close to the Acapulco Gold I grew and smoked in the past. It absolutely was not the real thing. It was like average Mexican of the 60's, which wasn't bad, but wasn't top quality either. That was the last time I gave the Dr. any of my money and it will remain the last time.
Someone might rip me off one time but I will not give them a second chance to rip me off again.
Message # 248
As you said, by now someone should have a plant or plants to show us, but we aren't seeing any, so if people are buying his G13 who are they, where are they, on some other site or people who do not hang on sites like this?
The same exchange about whether his G13 is real or not has been taking place on a number of growing sites, and most people say it is not real and would not buy it. So who is actually buying it? Is he really winning? Or will his G13 end up like his failed fake 'heritage line' and vanish before all that long? (Additional .. it was his fake 'heritage line' the Acapulco Gold I purchased and was ripped off with came from)
message # 265
That might have been a part of his reason, but then there are a lot of long flowering time strains on the market today. Plus another part was bound to be that people like myself that knew what the real strains were like tried his fakes, knew they were fakes and complained. His options were to let people who knew they were fake tell the entire world that he was ripping people off with fake strains or hope that would not happen and enough people who never grew or smoked the strains before would purchase them and never know they were ripped off.
I'd say he decided to attempt to save credibility by discontinuing his ripoff scam fake strain sales more than worry about offering strains that might not have sold in as large of numbers as some others would
Message # 351
Look at your own words:
Originally Posted by fletchman
DoubleD said Nevil wants the G13 and NL#5 cut back. You said G13 and Nl #5 cut, singular, as in one strain. Nev did release a G13 x NL#5 cross. When you used the singular form, saying cut instead of cuts, if you were talking about two different cuts you gave a totally wrong impression.
Congrats on your current growing success. I wasn't so lucky when I purchased Dr. Greenthumb's claimed to be 100% real, original, true, Acapulco Gold and it turned out more like Ghetto Gold. The 100% real, original, true Acapulco Gold that I had purchased and smoked and grown and smoked MANY times in the past and that I knew VERY well was TOTALLY different in every conceivable way than the Ghetto Gold Dr. Greenthumb sold me.
The Acapulco Gold that Dr. Greenthumb sold me was no more the real true Acapulco Gold than I am Jessie Jackson. So Dr. Greenthumb has a proven track record of selling fakes of famous strains from the past. Deal with it, I have.
From Message # 374
I cannot speak for anyone else but in my case I purchased Dr. Greenthumb's Acapulco Gold that he said was the true original strain. I was very familiar with Acapulco Gold after having bought and smoked and grew and smoked a lot of it, and I do mean a lot. What I got was nothing at all in any way, shape or form anything at all like the real true original Acapulco Gold.
To me he destroyed his own credibility by selling fake Acapulco Gold seeds so in my case I am not attempting to destroy something that does not exist. I am only telling the facts about my experience and pointing out how astronomically unlikely it is that he now has real G13. The odds of him having it are so massively stacked against him as to be of Biblical proportion.
Message # 386
I bought and smoked and grew and smoked the strain enough times to know that what I received was absolutely positively not Acapulco Gold. There was not one single thing about it from the color of the seeds to the taste or high or anything else in between that was even close to what I knew and what I knew well.
What is was like was like some of the lower grade Colombian strains of the 70's, and that is what I believe it likely was.
So did I call and ask about the strain? Nope. I saw no need to. I knew it was not what it was claimed to be. There was no doubt whatsoever that it was not what it was claimed to be. Had I called him and treated him with the utmost respect do you actually believe that his response would have been something like, 'it figures that an old timer like you would know the difference. You're right, it's not true Acapulco Gold'? That would have been the only honest reply to make but do you honestly believe I would have been told something like that? I sure didn't at the time and I still don't.
Maybe I should have contacted him to see what he would say, but my state of mind at the time was that of, I have been ripped off, so I would not have expected honesty. I would have expected excuses and attempted explanations like, how do you know what you bought and smoked and then grew and smoked was true Acapulco Gold in the first place? Maybe you are mistaken. Or maybe a phenotype story would have been the result or maybe how from time to time there are packaging errors and that must have been what happened. After his website stressing the strain to be the real deal, the Real McCoy I would not have expected him to do anything other than attempt to support those inaccurate claims.
Now maybe had I called him he might have said packaging error, and I would send another pack but we're temporarily out so I will refund your money or you can pick another strain of equal or lesser value. He may have made some attempt to placate me, to make me happy. I am not saying he would not have done something like that so maybe I was in the wrong by not having given him the opportunity.
Had that happened I would still today be telling what happened, but I would have added that he at least tried to make it right, to make up for the 'packaging error' or whatever he would have blamed it on. So maybe I did not give him the chance to attempt to make things at least somewhat better. But then I had taken his word for what his product would be, and it was not what he claimed it to be, so I just wrote him off as being at least somewhat dishonest and untrustworthy and left it at that.
And now this inordinately questionable G13 thing popped up. To use a Yogi Berra quote, to me; "it's just like déjà vu all over again."
I would really like to believe that Dr. Greenthumb has the real true G13 because if I knew for sure he did, I would purchase it. I would also like to believe in the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, the missile shield and strippers with a heart of gold, but I cannot being myself to believe in any of those anymore than I can bring myself to believe that Dr. Greenthumb has the Real McCoy G13. There have been too many questions raised followed by an evolving story that has not been verified by any credible source, and the description of the strain is as different as night from day from the original description of the real true G13 from the past, so how could anyone, other than those who just want it to be real so badly that they will believe anything, actually believe it to be real?
Message # 393
From where I am sitting you have things backwards. When Dr. Greenthumb sold me fake Acapulco Gold beans he messed up his business because he ripped off a customer who is now telling the world about it, about what he did.
And now he is offering a strain he claims to be something that people who are, and have been for many years, involved in breeding and had the strain and knew the strain and are saying it cannot be the strain it is claimed to be, and the original description of the strain, something that came out in print before some members of this site were ever born and who never read it and never knew it describe it as being just about the polar opposite of what Dr. Greenthumb describes his strain as being .... so when you add those things together, along with other things like an ever evolving story as to how he got it and from who, and in my mind; "the man" has in the past, and again is, messing up his own business.
If an auto manufacturer has a major recall and it is reported in the news and people talk about it and the manufacturers sales drop did the news and people talking about the manufacturer and the recall problem cause the drop is sales, or was it due to the manufacturer having a design flaw of some sort that caused the recall in the first place that then caused the news and people to talk about it actually cause a drop in sales? Was the actual problem the design flaw/recall or that the news reported it and people talked about it?
When a business, any business, does something or things that causes people to question it and wonder about it and doubt it and to be concerned about doing business with it the fault is that of the business itself, not that of those the business caused to question and wonder about and doubt the business and to be concerned about doing business with the business.
Message # 401
Originally Posted by OGMan
So you got Acapulco Gold from Greenthumb like 20 years ago that in your opinion wasn't Acapulco Gold and you're still wittering on about it.
Do you always need to rely on making things up just so you can attempt to discredit facts or the person presenting them? I have never so much as one single time said that I purchased and grew Dr. Greenthumb's fake Acapulco Gold; "like 20 years ago," as you so inaccurately claimed. It was roughly 2004 or 2005, that means it was like only 6 or 7 years ago, NOT; "like 20 years ago."
And yes I am writing about it to give a valid factual example of how Dr. Greenthumb has a history of selling fakes of famous name strains, of attempting to sucker people in by offering a fake that has a very famous name that he knows will draw customers and fatten his bank account, just as he is almost certainly doing again with what he is claiming to be G13.
I don't know about the Acapulco Gold but I do know about the Golden Haze, that Greenthumb made from the Acapulco Gold and it was unbelieveable smoke and you're still a twat.
OK, so, to you, in your opinion Dr. Greenthumb's Golden Haze was; "unbelievable" smoke. Fine. But what in the wide, wide world of sports does that have to do with his having sold fake Acapulco Gold in the past or what he is now selling and claiming to be G13?
Answer: Absolutely nothing!
Be sure to get back to me when you have something to say that is topical, valid and is not something that you made up, like the; "like 20 years ago" thing was.
Check this out about Dr. Greenthumb's fake Acapulco Gold:
I got 14 beans in the pack from Dr. Greenthumb. I germinated all of them, and all of them came up. Out of the 14, I only got 2 males, and the other dozen were females. For the most part, they were pretty stable, some phenos varied in smell and apperance, but most were similar in every way. The Acapulco Gold is a very easy plant to grow, no special attention needed, and she took any nutrients that I gave her without any problems. For a sativa, shes also a very fast flowering plant. I flowered them kind of small, expecting alot of stretch, but they did not stretch nearly as much as I planned on. Now overall in flowering, the AG is great all around. Now the best part about this plant is the yeilds that it gives. I got monster yeilds from the AG, more than most all of my other strains. Now the reason I got these AG seeds, is because I wanted to find a keeper AG mom, one that is a knockout like the AG from back in the 70's. Well that was not the case here. The Acapulco Gold from Dr. Greenthumb was some of the weakest bud I've smoked. The potency is very poor. You have to smoke alot of this stuff to catch a good buzz. The taste is alright, smooth but nothing special. The smell is also nothing special when dried, just a fresh piney smell. In flower she smells really good, like lemon lime mixed with a hint of Haze. So overall, the AG is not a keeper in my opinion. I was very dissapointed with the potency of this one. I suppose if you started about a couple hundred of these seeds to find that special potent pheno, you may have found a keeper mom, but other than that, I wouldn't waste the money on these if your looking for something that is like the original AG from 30 years back. If it wasn't for the amazing yeilds she gave me, I would have been exteremely unsatisfied.
http://weedbay.net/index.php/strain-guide/231
I would compare what I got from Dr. Greenthumb's fake Acapulco Gold to a very low grade Colombian. The person who wrote the smoke report above said the potency was; "very poor." Dr. Greenthumb advertised the level of potency as being 5 out of 5. He lied just like when he lied and said it was the real true honest to goodness Acapulco Gold of the past.
Acapulco Gold -Pure sativa
Potency: 5 out of 5
Clean and vibrant high
Perfect for breeders
Worldwide prime
http://www.drgreenthumb.com/PhotoHTM...apulcoGold.htm
At some point he downgraded his 5 out of 5 potency claim to 4 out of 5 ... but it was more like 1.75 or 2 out of 5 at best.
Acapulco Gold-Heritage Strain
Product Code- AGH
- Generally speaking, pure Sativas are notSoaring, cerebral, up high
recommended for indoor growing.
- While the quality of smoke is excellent,
pure Sativas are difficult to manage since
they spread and stretch all over the place
with low yields.
- If you have the climate, pure Sativas are
an excellent choice and can produce large
yields up to and over two pounds per
plant outdoors.
- Finish dates are dependent on start
dates.
Potency: 4 out of 5
Indoor Growth
Outdoor Growth
Cutting height
Plant Height
6'- 10'
Yield (/m²)
Yield
up to 2000 g
Flowering
Approximately
100 Days
Finish
October- November
Frost Resistance-
Spring
Good
Frost Resistance-
Fall
Good
http://www.drgreenthumb.com/GreenthumbSeedsHeritage.htm
People cannot believe what Dr. Greenthumb claims any more than they can believe you considering what you made up about my allegedly purchasing and growing Dr. Greenthumb's fake Acapulco Gold; "like 20 years ago" when it was in fact more like 6 or 7 years ago.
Message # 403
1: The reviews on his other strains are meaningless in this exchange. They in no way whatsoever are evidence that what he is selling as the real true G13 is the real true G13. What he is selling and calling G13 might be a great strain, it might get top reviews, but even that would not in any way be proof that it is the real true G13 as he is claiming it too be.
2: Do you fail to see the more than obvious similarities involved here. He offers what he claims are Acapulco Gold seeds decades after the last real true Acapulco Gold was seen. Most who would purchase it would never know the difference between it and what is was supposed to be. They would not notice the total difference from seed to toking it and everything in between. Only a handful of old-timers might be able to do that. No one else could, so he could claim whatever he liked with little risk of being caught being untruthful.
Now he offers what he calls G13, long after the plants that professional breeders who had it had lost vigor and died and long after any who smoked it would likely be purchasing it now to notice the difference between the real thing and what he is selling. I posted the original description of the real true G13 and it is as different as night and day from Dr. Greenthumb's description and from what those few who are growing it and telling about it are saying about it and how they describe it.
Do you fail to see a parallel? If you see it do you now understand why I went on about the fake Acapulco Gold? Dr. Greenthumb will pick a famous strain name from the past, one from far enough in the past that most current growers would not know it was not the real thing if they grew it because they never grew, or smoked, the real thing in the past, and then he offers 'a strain,' 'some strain,' using the famous name.
It is almost the perfect scam, at least if the strain he is claiming to be G13 turns out to be a good strain unlike the Acapulco Gold that turned out to be a low grade strain. There is no documentation that can be used to prove it is not real. Regardless of people like Shantibaba and Nevil saying it's not, Dr. Greenthumb can still claim it is. There are not enough people out there who had, grew and smoked the real G13 to be able to say enough to convince people who want and need to believe that they bought, grew, or are growing, and are or will be smoking one of the most famous stains of all time. So he can make all the claims he wants without fear of being proven wrong, even though he had had to alter his story a few times already, and if by chance he created a strain that is impressive people will believe it to be the real G13, even though it does not come close to matching G13's original description in any way, and he will be able to continue to charge an arm and a leg for a good strain, but a strain that is not what it is claimed to be and not what people will actually receive. But he can charge more for the same strain if he claims it is the real true G13 than if he just developed a very good strain and gave it a name of it's own.
As I said, it is almost the perfect scam. Had his fake Acapulco Gold been good, rather than being more like Ghetto Gold, he likely would have gotten away with it. He had several strains in his Heritage Line, all strains claimed to be famous high potency strains of the past. His Heritage Line did not last long. Likely because the others, just as was the case with Acapulco Gold, were terrible and even those who did not know the real deal would not purchase them again because of their near total lack of quality.
If the strain he created and is claiming to be the real true G13 turns out to be high octane, he will make a killing off of people who will actually believe that they are purchasing the real true G13. The prefect scam. Create something good and give it the name of an extremely famous strain that will be impossible for anyone to prove to not be the real deal, something that likely no longer exists, at least not in the hands of anyone who could or would ever offer it to the public, regardless of what a few claim.
Even though it is fake, as long as it is good and people rave about it, they will perceive it to be real and if perceived to be real that gives him a virtual monopoly. That means that every single person with the hope of experiencing the real G13 will have to purchase from him and him alone. It is the perfect scam. Reality is whatever someone perceives it too be, within reason of course, so if perceived as real, in the minds of buyers and growers and dealers and smokers it will be seen as being real, it will be accepted as being real, and that will allow him to charge more per bean than if he just gave his strain a new name, regardless of how good it might turn out to be. The famous name, if perceived to be the real deal, justifies whatever price he wants to put on it, for two reasons. First, because it is believed to be as advertised, and second, because there is no competition and lacking competition the marketplace does not eventually set the price, Dr. Greenthumb and Dr. Greenthumb alone can set the price.
If he has created a strain that is good enough for people to believe it too be the real G13 he has just struck the largest vein of gold he will ever strike.
From message # 412
What do you use to know what I think or know or what is in my head? Are you psychic? Do you use a ouija board? Maybe you use tarot cards? But then you could just rely on a Magic 8 Ball to tell you what I think or what I know or what is in my head.
I knew nothing about Hobbes and I had no interest in knowing anything about him, just as I have no interest in knowing anything about you.
What is it about people in this thread? Why do need to make things up about me and make totally false claims about me? OGMan lied and said I purchased the fake Acapulco Gold I purchased from Dr. Greenthumb; "like 20 years ago" even though it was more like only 6 or 7 years ago. Now you lied and said that I knew: that Hobbes had troubles." Well what troubles did he used do have? You used the word had, the past tense, meaning he; "had' troubles which also means he no longer has the troubles. If not you would have worded your lie more like; 'you knew that Hobbes has troubles,' but you didn't, did you? So the troubles I never knew he had are gone, and that has to be good for him.
So are you only trying your best to be a burr under my saddle because of Hobbes? Or is it that you, like most others here, are totally lacking in credible topical ammunition to fire back at me to attempt to refute the facts I have presented about Dr. Greenthumb so just to have the chance to ride me you have gone to plan b ... or is it plan c or plan d by now because all the others have failed so you keep going from plan to plan making a pest of yourself?
Why don't you spend more time playing with yourself and less time attempting to play with me? We would both derive far more pleasure from that than what we are both now experiencing.
From message # 419
Everything I have said has either been the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, as in the case of my experience with Dr. Greenthumb's fake Acapulco Gold, or has been highly damning evidence, some from those themselves involved and some from highly credible sources and who are professional breeders, and have been for many years and who had the the G13 and made crosses with the true G13, such as Shantibaba and Nevil, a pair who would have no reason to lie and who would also have the greatest chance of knowing the truth, the facts, as to if G13 still exists in it's original real true pure form ... and they do not believe it too be possible.
From message # 432
It is pure assumptions like that, and ones that are misleading, that always make me laugh. All I said about Dr. Greenthumb's Acapulco Gold was that it was fake, that compared to the real deal it was weak, but I NEVER compared it in any way to any other strains, sativa or otherwise.
From message # 457
He tried almost the exact same scam in the past and it failed. With luck his current scam will fail too before too many people are ripped off. (talking about my Acapulco Gold ripoff experience.)
Message # 511
There are no truth in advertising laws covering cannabis strains and advertisements. If there were there wouldn't be 30-some genetically different 'White Widow' strains or any of any other of the many knockoff strains. It would clearly be a case of false advertising and Shantibaba could have kept using the name and sued ever breeder who used it or he could have changed the name and Green House Seeds could have sued every breeder who used it or someone could sue a breeder. Have you ever heard of that happening? I doubt it, because there are no truth in advertising laws that cover cannabis strains. There is no legal copyright protection for cannabis and there is no laws stating that something has to be what it is claimed to be.. Look at Green House Seeds Bubba Kush. Genetically it's not anything at all like the original Bubba Kush ... but it carries the name .. and no one can sue over it.
That is why Dr. Greenthumb was able to sell his fake Acapulco Gold and the other fakes in his heritage line and now his fake G13 without getting sued.
yep just watching the wreckage...
LMAO...............