Who is Fascist?

[undertheice]

Talk about the harbinger of gloom. according to you, there is no hope, everything has been tried and failed. I see the situation with a little less rancor.

this isn't gloom and i never said that everything has been tried and resulted in failure. this is the reality of the situation and i said that our system brings to the top mostly those so insipid that they are incapable of taking the road less traveled. the halls of government are so filled with these dullards that original ideas are immediately discounted as too frightening for the voters to even comprehend.

The repukes have had it their way for 10-15 years, with the little guy taking it up the ass. Now there comes a chance to reverse this trend with the peoples choice, Obama, the prince of hope, the pendulum swings.

you just don't get it, do you? republican or democrat, it doesn't mean a thing. they keep running around in circles with the same dozen or so ideas, repackaging them as needed, and selling them to the people as if they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. your pitiful prince of hope, selling empty promises to a mind numbed populace, is merely following in the footsteps of other failures. he has nothing new. his rhetoric is the same socialist crap spewed by stalin and mao, just couched in gentler terms to fool the pseudo-intellectuals and appease those of his colleagues who aren't yet ready to embrace that vision of the future. the pendulum is merely spinning in place.

Capitalism has run rampant over the land and all the main players are so fucking spoiled and corrupt that it will be a battle royal to take this land back for the people, but I say Obama is the right man to start the ball rolling. The rich elites have had it their way way too long, sitting in their mansions sucking on 100 year old scotch talking about how the masses need more control, this shit has to change or the masses will end up as more like slaves than workers.

ah yes; capitalism, the great evil.
it's time to wake up and smell the truth. capitalism run rampant is just what we need. capitalism without the restraints of an interfering government, without artificial limits and ill conceived bail-outs. a capitalism that allows the people to decide what is best instead of a few idiots who lied their way into office. the balances inherent in true capitalism only work if it is left alone to wend its way through its various stages. the monopolies and robber barons of old were born of government interference, the failures of the free market are born of those same meddlings. when capitalism is left to its own devices it is the people who determine the final outcome. those rich elites cannot maintain their lifestyles without the people. without consumers and workers they would starve in their mansions. the power of those consumers and those workers would be able to control prices and wages if it weren't for a meddlesome government. alas, that power has been stolen by the greed of our elected officials, the very ones whose lies you still believe.

how can i convince you that your hero is just another tool to separate you from your power - or should i just give up. wealth redistribution is just another artificial limit, government give-aways are just more theatrics to steal from those who have managed to succeed, socialist institutions are just feeding grounds for bureaucratic blood suckers. something for nothing does not exist, no matter who promises it to you.

 

[ccodiane]

ah yes; capitalism, the great evil.
it's time to wake up and smell the truth. capitalism run rampant is just what we need. capitalism without the restraints of an interfering government, without artificial limits and ill conceived bail-outs. a capitalism that allows the people to decide what is best instead of a few idiots who lied their way into office. the balances inherent in true capitalism only work if it is left alone to wend its way through its various stages. the monopolies and robber barons of old were born of government interference, the failures of the free market are born of those same meddlings. when capitalism is left to its own devices it is the people who determine the final outcome. those rich elites cannot maintain their lifestyles without the people. without consumers and workers they would starve in their mansions. the power of those consumers and those workers would be able to control prices and wages if it weren't for a meddlesome government. alas, that power has been stolen by the greed of our elected officials, the very ones whose lies you still believe.

Alas, Conservatism!

 

[Inneedofbuds]

this isn't gloom and i never said that everything has been tried and resulted in failure. this is the reality of the situation and i said that our system brings to the top mostly those so insipid that they are incapable of taking the road less traveled. the halls of government are so filled with these dullards that original ideas are immediately discounted as too frightening for the voters to even comprehend.

you just don't get it, do you? republican or democrat, it doesn't mean a thing. they keep running around in circles with the same dozen or so ideas, repackaging them as needed, and selling them to the people as if they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. your pitiful prince of hope, selling empty promises to a mind numbed populace, is merely following in the footsteps of other failures. he has nothing new. his rhetoric is the same socialist crap spewed by stalin and mao, just couched in gentler terms to fool the pseudo-intellectuals and appease those of his colleagues who aren't yet ready to embrace that vision of the future. the pendulum is merely spinning in place.

ah yes; capitalism, the great evil.
it's time to wake up and smell the truth. capitalism run rampant is just what we need. capitalism without the restraints of an interfering government, without artificial limits and ill conceived bail-outs. a capitalism that allows the people to decide what is best instead of a few idiots who lied their way into office. the balances inherent in true capitalism only work if it is left alone to wend its way through its various stages. the monopolies and robber barons of old were born of government interference, the failures of the free market are born of those same meddlings. when capitalism is left to its own devices it is the people who determine the final outcome. those rich elites cannot maintain their lifestyles without the people. without consumers and workers they would starve in their mansions. the power of those consumers and those workers would be able to control prices and wages if it weren't for a meddlesome government. alas, that power has been stolen by the greed of our elected officials, the very ones whose lies you still believe.

how can i convince you that your hero is just another tool to separate you from your power - or should i just give up. wealth redistribution is just another artificial limit, government give-aways are just more theatrics to steal from those who have managed to succeed, socialist institutions are just feeding grounds for bureaucratic blood suckers. something for nothing does not exist, no matter who promises it to you.

I find it hilarious that you site Obama for empty rhetoric. Did you read your own post? You've eloquently stated absolutely nothing at all.

 

[ccodiane]

I find it hilarious that you site Obama for empty rhetoric. Did you read your own post? You've eloquently stated absolutely nothing at all.

Ahhh, the power of Hope. You would lie in a mud puddle so your dear, dear Obama wouldn't have to get his shoes wet. If he wins, get used to it.

 

[undertheice]

I find it hilarious that you site Obama for empty rhetoric. Did you read your own post? You've eloquently stated absolutely nothing at all.

....but in this case there was a bit of meat. perhaps your lack of understanding is born of the fact that you don't like the message. i'll make it nice and simple for you and i'll even use small words.

the bad men are doing the same thing over and over again and hoping you won't notice (seems they have a pretty good chance of getting away with it ). the bad men are keeping you from choosing what's best for you by making stupid rules. the bad men are on both sides and are fooling you into believing they are different. the bad men are getting rich and you are getting poor.

now here's a cookie, go out and play.

 

[undertheice]

Alas, Conservatism!

no, this is the way to the downfall of an easily corruptible system. without government support, corporate america is as doomed as the dodo. when the people are allowed to use their power for change they invariably tear down that which oppresses them and that is the way to the workers' state. conservatives have long protected the rabid greed of conglomerates and faceless corporations. without that protection and in the face of a truly free market their obscene profit taking would be curbed and smaller, more consumer and worker friendly organizations would be able to compete.

it's just a theory, but a sound one. and one of my favorites.

 

[mockingbird131313]

no, this is the way to the downfall of an easily corruptible system. without government support, corporate america is as doomed as the dodo. when the people are allowed to use their power for change they invariably tear down that which oppresses them and that is the way to the workers' state. conservatives have long protected the rabid greed of conglomerates and faceless corporations. without that protection and in the face of a truly free market their obscene profit taking would be curbed and smaller, more consumer and worker friendly organizations would be able to compete.

it's just a theory, but a sound one. and one of my favorites.

Without corporate support, government is as doomed as the dodo. Corporations pay an enormous amount of taxes to a wasteful government.

The real problem is corporate and government leadership. The velocity of the M1 money supply is out of control. People have a very low savings rate. The government spends much more than it takes in. The printing presses are running full tilt, printing $. Finally, few average people invest in corporations anymore. So, boards of directors run wild.

All of these things are issues that have changed in the last 40 years. What works best is what was, not what is.
</IMG>

 

[Inneedofbuds]

....but in this case there was a bit of meat. perhaps your lack of understanding is born of the fact that you don't like the message. i'll make it nice and simple for you and i'll even use small words.

the bad men are doing the same thing over and over again and hoping you won't notice (seems they have a pretty good chance of getting away with it ). the bad men are keeping you from choosing what's best for you by making stupid rules. the bad men are on both sides and are fooling you into believing they are different. the bad men are getting rich and you are getting poor.

now here's a cookie, go out and play.

ahh, sarcasm, the sign of true intelligence. Now please, enlighten us all to a solution to these boogeymen.

 

[ѕψЫiмiиλŁ™]

I dont know what a fascist is but i heard that word b 4.

 

[7xstall]

do you have any reasons for saying he'll tax my ass into oblivion? You're also taking the bombing people in Pakistan terribly out of context. Obama was stating that instead of starting false wars, we could use smart weapons to destroy terrorists. He was talking about using precision bombing to take out Al Qaeda in Pakistan rather than the current tactics of bomb first, find terrorists later. Pushing business towards clean energy practices won't lose jobs, it will create them, especially since a huge potion of oil jobs are already given to engineers over seas. I think the last two you just kind of threw in there. I mean, you've given no basis whatsoever. You sound more like an angry teenager than someone interested in a political debate. If we're fucked anyway, stop talking about it.

he'll have to tax everyone more to pay for his obscene hand outs. do you even realize how deeply he wants to worm the federal government into your life? expanded nationalized federal lunch program for school kids (why not just help schools that ask for help??). expanded subsidy of so called "green collar" jobs, which is a nice way of saying government jobs for people with no skills, they will wash solar panels, call the experts when something goes wrong with wind systems and do other useless work on our dime. he wants to pay for illegals to find work and expand the welfare state benefits to them. he wants to EXPAND the already wasteful and immensely unsuccessful farm subsidy program - which pays hundreds of millions to multi-billion dollar farm corporations instead of family run farms. just google this guy you're spooning with! he WILL have to raise taxes on everyone above poverty level and he will force layoffs when companies get hit with his intentionally destructive anti-business taxes. his government would swoop in and offer expanded unemployment benefits, i'm sure. lol

pakistan out of context? he said he would "chase terrorists" into pakistan with no notification given to that country's sovereign government. the context is in the statement itself. unless you are saying he is prone to emotional outbursts that he later regrets... ??? we don't need more threats or intimidation, this nation is crumbling right now. we don't need someone jumping on the pillars and stomping the few remaining supports out from under us. we need to re-establish trust and respect among other nations, all nations.

forcing business to follow some idealistic environmental construct from some pink commie's Utopian ambition is NEVER GOING TO HELP CREATE JOBS. it would amount to another welfare tax. just moving the money around and patting yourself on the back while dollars evaporate into the government void. you'd be trading normal, productive jobs for useless "green" jobs that aren't even needed. btw, those kind of people are the most expendable in the job market. i'm sure you'd feel great about creating a new class of insecure, job hopping government mandated welfare recipients but they wouldn't benefit one bit from this kind of nonsense. besides, all of that work already falls withing the scope of well established businesses who don't need government subsidy. the market has a way of providing these needs, automatically.

obama is all about communist state medicine, aka universal health neglect/care. the people who want something for nothing lap stuff like that up but it's the rest of us who will suffer for their me-centric thinking. instead of freeing up money and letting the states do what is best for their people he wants to override them and burden them with even more government interference. that never works out well, unless you're one of the government buffoons who shuffles paper all day and earn $89,000/ year for your "service".

tort reform? well, since he's just another lawyer, like pretty much all the dem candidates, why would he want sensible reforms and restrictions on what his buddies can earn by suing doctors for tragic situations? why would he want to help make insurance cheaper when the insurance industry is helping to fund his bid and while they are at it they are also asking for more government involvement - since they pay more than citizens will? tort reform is overdue and he probably hasn't even seen that word cross his teleprompter.

so, i'm an angry teenager? more like an angry American who is tired of seeing this orgy of waste that is D.C.







.

 

[medicineman]

How many countries have universal health care that aren't communist? Oh that's right, about thirty, so we will flip right into communism as soon as the first non-insured person gets medical, Genious. You are so fucking paranoid. This country will never go communist, It may go more socialist, but capitalism is here to stay., Tell me oh wise one, you think helping the less fortunate (school lunches for poor children that may be the one decent meal they get all day) is corruptible and communistic. What is your status in life. Do you own a corporation or are you one of the duped. Who says a corporate controlled state is any better than a state controlled corporation, why can't they exist separately within the confines of the same country, with the greed factor controlled by a board of employee-citizens. I believe the best system would be an employee owned corporation, with net profit limited to the COLA+5%, and an independent accouting firm to do the math. Excess profit would be used to better the community, not feather the pockets of grossly overpaid CEOs. I don't have all the answers, but a better wealth distribution system needs to be implemented. All the "A" type personalities have run rampant over this land for far too long. It has to do with the football mentality, the kick ass and take names mentality, damn the torpedos, full steam ahead philosophy. Maybe we need to take a look at what we've really done to America with the greed and avarice of the current system and start at the kindergarten level and teach helping one another is more important than outperforming each other. This is the basis of humanity. Helping each other instead of learning how to tackle the guy with the ball. It's very basic stuff and will take at least two generations but it is do-able.

 

[7xstall]

How many countries have universal health care that aren't communist? Oh that's right, about thirty, so we will flip right into communism as soon as the first non-insured person gets medical, Genious. You are so fucking paranoid. This country will never go communist, It may go more socialist, but capitalism is here to stay., Tell me oh wise one, you think helping the less fortunate (school lunches for poor children that may be the one decent meal they get all day) is corruptible and communistic. What is your status in life. Do you own a corporation or are you one of the duped. Who says a corporate controlled state is any better than a state controlled corporation, why can't they exist separately within the confines of the same country, with the greed factor controlled by a board of employee-citizens. I believe the best system would be an employee owned corporation, with net profit limited to the COLA+5%, and an independent accouting firm to do the math. Excess profit would be used to better the community, not feather the pockets of grossly overpaid CEOs. I don't have all the answers, but a better wealth distribution system needs to be implemented. All the "A" type personalities have run rampant over this land for far too long. It has to do with the football mentality, the kick ass and take names mentality, damn the torpedos, full steam ahead philosophy. Maybe we need to take a look at what we've really done to America with the greed and avarice of the current system and start at the kindergarten level and teach helping one another is more important than outperforming each other. This is the basis of humanity. Helping each other instead of learning how to tackle the guy with the ball. It's very basic stuff and will take at least two generations but it is do-able.

i agree that "Free Lunch for the Suffering Poor Kids" sounds all nice but that school lunch program is just more corruption and waste! only the insiders are on the list to bid, they have to meet all kinds of expensive government requirements to be on the list. remember how the FCC basically wiped out small radio stations in the mid-90s?? same thing here. he wants to Authoritatively choke it down to only the companies that "play", forget the small businesses and also forget the state's own very effective school lunch programs and forget their liberty to develop new policies on an as needed basis!

at my boy's school there is already a state law telling them to put fruits and vegetables on the tray - even if the kid doesn't want it! in other words, they HAVE to throw food away. that's just what we need on a nationwide basis: more food imports from SA and china on money we borrowed so we can throw it away. strong economy on the way!

you already know what i believe about the "rule" of corporations OR government. neither is fit to rule unless the people are simply too lazy to do it themselves.

also, it seems cruel to pull the most gifted people down to the level of the average. maybe that's just me, but i don't see how letting people flourish automatically means someone will be trampled. that's absurd.




.

 

[ccodiane]

Without corporate support, government is as doomed as the dodo. Corporations pay an enormous amount of taxes to a wasteful government.

The real problem is corporate and government leadership. The velocity of the M1 money supply is out of control. People have a very low savings rate. The government spends much more than it takes in. The printing presses are running full tilt, printing $. Finally, few average people invest in corporations anymore. So, boards of directors run wild.

All of these things are issues that have changed in the last 40 years. What works best is what was, not what is.
</IMG>

Fuck, chicken skin. That first line of yours is the first thing that jumped in my head when reading the post above yours. You're good, you're real good.

 

[ccodiane]

no, this is the way to the downfall of an easily corruptible system. without government support, corporate america is as doomed as the dodo. when the people are allowed to use their power for change they invariably tear down that which oppresses them and that is the way to the workers' state. conservatives have long protected the rabid greed of conglomerates and faceless corporations. without that protection and in the face of a truly free market their obscene profit taking would be curbed and smaller, more consumer and worker friendly organizations would be able to compete.

it's just a theory, but a sound one. and one of my favorites.

Again, I think you speak, generally, of some so-called conservative Republicans, not Conservatives. I believe that free market systems are self correcting. It is government intervention that hinders the natural, and desirable, corrections. Conservatives believe in capitalism, the constitution, and peoples/states autonomy as dictated by the founding documents. I am adding a description of capitalism, one that I like, not for you , but for those who could use a quick brush up.





What is capitalism?

Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned. Under capitalism the state is separated from economics (production and OpenDNS), just like the state is separated from OpenDNS. Capitalism is the system of of laissez faire. It is the system of political OpenDNS.
What is a capitalist?

An advocate of laissez-faire is known as a capitalist, e.g., novelist Ayn Rand is a capitalist; e.g., though economically Engels came from a wealthy background, politically he is recognized as a socialist/communist because of his ideas; e.g., billionaire George Soros is not a capitalist as he does not advocate capitalism, but he advocates some form of a mixed economy OpenDNS. Soros like Ted Turner is a "socialist at heart."

 

[ViRedd]

Socialism, by what ever name, wears a velvet glove. When the regulations and taxes to support it become so onerous, and the people begin to revolt, the velvet glove comes off to reveal the iron fist of totalitarianism. History proves this to be true.

Vi

 

[undertheice]

Again, I think you speak, generally, of some so-called conservative Republicans, not Conservatives. I believe that free market systems are self correcting. It is government intervention that hinders the natural, and desirable, corrections.

the essence of conservatism is to stand against change, whether artificial or natural. to that end they tend to protect the institutions which are in control, those faceless corporations that have long exerted undue influence on government. instead of allowing the changes which would strip big business of its power they advocate protections to maintain the status quo and keep an even flow of power. they hide from the pains of transition.

i realize that this isn't the sin of conservatives alone, the left is equally culpable. with a series of stop-gap solutions and half-hearted giveaways they ignore the inevitability of radical change, hoping to stave off the day when their power too will be stripped from them.

 

[ccodiane]

I believe the essence of Conservatism is to inspire and motivate. With self determination comes opportunity. It is up to each one of us, as individuals, to strive for our dreams as best we are able. As a Conservative, I believe smaller government is desirous, and limiting and restricting capitalism is onerous. At some point in the recent past, a majority of citizens were, and are, on the government dole. So much for self determination.

 

[medicineman]

i agree that "Free Lunch for the Suffering Poor Kids" sounds all nice but that school lunch program is just more corruption and waste! only the insiders are on the list to bid, they have to meet all kinds of expensive government requirements to be on the list. remember how the FCC basically wiped out small radio stations in the mid-90s?? same thing here. he wants to Authoritatively choke it down to only the companies that "play", forget the small businesses and also forget the state's own very effective school lunch programs and forget their liberty to develop new policies on an as needed basis!

at my boy's school there is already a state law telling them to put fruits and vegetables on the tray - even if the kid doesn't want it! in other words, they HAVE to throw food away. that's just what we need on a nationwide basis: more food imports from SA and china on money we borrowed so we can throw it away. strong economy on the way!

you already know what i believe about the "rule" of corporations OR government. neither is fit to rule unless the people are simply too lazy to do it themselves.

also, it seems cruel to pull the most gifted people down to the level of the average. maybe that's just me, but i don't see how letting people flourish automatically means someone will be trampled. that's absurd.




.

Here's where you've got it wrong: There are only so many entrepreneurial possibilities that exist. That means there will have to be workers, you know, people that get out of bed every morning and gear up for an 8 hour trial of trying to do enough to keep their job and not get shitcanned by some asshole boss. The real backbone of America, the working class without which nothing would move. These people deserve a fair wage, a wage that could allow them to buy a home, send their kids to school, have complete medical coverage, and a retirement plan that would guarantee them freedom after 50 years of work. Plus enouigh left over for vacations and a little R&R. The way it was in the 60s & 70s. These people have been sacrificed to the god of money, the corporate bottom line. It must change or I forsee violence in the future, and I'm pretty sure I'll join in. We must get back to a middle class America. All you entrepreneurs go out and start new businesses and pay a fair wage and guess what, everyone will be happy.

 

[Wavels]

Med you are, as usual, woefully out of touch and seem to exist in a negative cocoon. The so called impoverished middle class is doing better than it ever has; you have of course bought into the negative media drumbeat which is in large part sheer hyperbolic politically motivated rubbish.

Check out what Drew Carey has to say about your overly negative claptrap!!!
The truth is out there! And quite predictably, you will reject it because you are a brainwashed foot-soldier of the left.


Wall Street Journal Video - WSJ.com

 

[ViRedd]

Fascist = A Conservative who's winning an argument.