You are way better then words then me, thank you!insomnia47
Its added, its an additive. Do your plants actually use H2O2 to grow? Could you not grow your plants without it? Its more an issue of your medium being susceptible to pathogens and needing to deal with it, thus adding an additive. And a fert is either complete or not, you cant make it "more complete", thats what we call adding additives
This is the problem with the whole debate, UB turned it into an "all additives are useless" argument when it should have been a debate about WHICH additives are useful and which are not.
Are Boosters and Additives Really Necessary?
- Thread starter asaph
- Start date
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO
New Member
what he has been telling you isinsomnia47
Its added, its an additive. Do your plants actually use H2O2 to grow? Could you not grow your plants without it? Its more an issue of your medium being susceptible to pathogens and needing to deal with it, thus adding an additive. And a fert is either complete or not, you cant make it "more complete", thats what we call adding additives
This is the problem with the whole debate, UB turned it into an "all additives are useless" argument when it should have been a debate about WHICH additives are useful and which are not.
A product like dynagro has everything a plant needs for very little money.
other products seperate these complete nutes and put fancy names and pretty girls on the label and say there MJ specific.
you need to buy the whole line and mix it back together to get the same thing you could have got from dynagro.
the additives that work are the ones that are deficient in your base nute. get it?
Ahh buzz off you old ass, I'm a father of 3 and far beyond my 40's, and certainly tired of some old sage that has spend far too much time on forums calling me names when all I'm trying to do is to get some unbiased info on something that I care about. You were doing the 'ganging up' with your 'buddy' the capitalist early on in this threat. I actually thought more of you you jack ass!You're politicizing and generally have your facts wrong. That's all I have to say about that. Well, one more thing I guess.If you need H2O2 because you are losing roots to an anerobic condition, then you need to rethink your garden. It's nothing more than water with an oxygen atom hung to it - very unstable, quickly releasing that O and returning to plain ole water. Ahhhhhhhh, another one. Tell me what's missing in Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro or their Bloom food? http://www.dyna-gro.com/Website pdf Files/DG Foliage-Pro Sht 2003.pdf
If you want to argue, I can and will go toe to toe with you. I refuse to argue with some twit who tries to whip up an Uncle Ben gang bang with intimidation tactics...... ostracizing another member who agrees with me. He clearly states that if you want to use boosters and additives, then knock yourself out. He's also in this to make money and if someone asks for something that he doesn't stock, then he loses profits to the hydro store down the road. I may sell fudge in my store.....doesn't necessarily mean I like fudge.
And yes, more than likely you're wasting your money and time with CO2. Depends....
What I think is happening here is you'd feel more self-confident with a consensus....seen those forum dynamics many a time.
UB
BTW, the only consensus I need is from my garden.
Come on, 'most likely' is for pussy's, tell me how I'm wasting co2 on my plants!
billcollector99
Well-Known Member
Doesnt H202 kill bennies in your medium???
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
So NO additives work, but you sell them all anyways? And you sell the corrosponding "deficient base nutes" too?
What about Canna, you sell them? They're not Cannabis specific, no "sexy pictures", just 1 part for veg and 1 part for flower base nutes and additives (sold as optional extras if you want to spring for them). Nowhere do they tell us we need them and people do grow really quality plants with just their base nutes, but people unrelated to the company also point to improvements when they started adding PK13/14...so whats the deal there?
And also its seems your saying that every company that sells additives, sells base nutrients that are deficient or that the additives just simply do not work... "the additives that work are the ones that are deficient in your base nute. get it?"
Ill let you and Ben get back to spooning, you's seem to go real well together in the closed minded arrogance department.
Actually since your into "honesty" for your customers/fellow growers, care to list the nutes and additives that are in some way deficient or just flat out dont work? Thanks.
EDIT: Im even gonna throw in some examples of why the generalising going on in this thread is so insultingly absurd. A few other generalisations for you;
1. Black people are all criminals
2. Jews are scabby
3. Irish are all drunks
4. Americans are all stupid
5. English are all tea-drinking snobs
See the absolute folly in all of the above statements? That's the virtue of conservative "old skool" thinking for you there, wouldnt have gotten the world very far if we all followed them.
What about Canna, you sell them? They're not Cannabis specific, no "sexy pictures", just 1 part for veg and 1 part for flower base nutes and additives (sold as optional extras if you want to spring for them). Nowhere do they tell us we need them and people do grow really quality plants with just their base nutes, but people unrelated to the company also point to improvements when they started adding PK13/14...so whats the deal there?
And also its seems your saying that every company that sells additives, sells base nutrients that are deficient or that the additives just simply do not work... "the additives that work are the ones that are deficient in your base nute. get it?"
Ill let you and Ben get back to spooning, you's seem to go real well together in the closed minded arrogance department.
Actually since your into "honesty" for your customers/fellow growers, care to list the nutes and additives that are in some way deficient or just flat out dont work? Thanks.
EDIT: Im even gonna throw in some examples of why the generalising going on in this thread is so insultingly absurd. A few other generalisations for you;
1. Black people are all criminals
2. Jews are scabby
3. Irish are all drunks
4. Americans are all stupid
5. English are all tea-drinking snobs
See the absolute folly in all of the above statements? That's the virtue of conservative "old skool" thinking for you there, wouldnt have gotten the world very far if we all followed them.
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO
New Member
Tired of explaining it to you, But the economy needs people like you. I tried to be civil, but your name calling bores me.
VG, OUT!!!!
Hold on now Victory, you still have not shared the list of nutes that you sell that by your own account do not work and only rip us off!
God, what a fucking can of worms you opened for yourself... a hydro store owner that admits that he is the seller of snake oils and tries to clense himself with 'american capitalism'. There is just no way to make that look good.
God, what a fucking can of worms you opened for yourself... a hydro store owner that admits that he is the seller of snake oils and tries to clense himself with 'american capitalism'. There is just no way to make that look good.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
See thats the thing, you and UB didnt actually explain shit. You's rode in on your high-horses, pointed to some generalised farming articles (and UB's apparently "oracle"-like brain), with nothing regarding the cannabis plant specifically and then UB pointed to the very products he was riding me for (high PK flowering nutes/additives)...?!
I also noticed you wont list the products that are "useless"? Afraid of getting sued by the companies of whom some can/will in court point out (with actual numbers) the errors of your generalisations? Go on, you run away too cos someone actually questioned you for once.
ANYWAY: To the OP, additives are by definition not necessary (if you buy balanced base nutes), but some of them can be helpful (as Im sure some of them are a sham). Unless someone else wants to show proof that statement is wrong, then it is as close to as straight an answer as you're gonna get. And since noone wants to try help list the useful (and useless) additives, you aint gonna get any more specific info...so dont listen to what some internet dicks tell you to do without a shred of evidence, buy what you want, use what you want and enjoy growing.
If you find a product thats useful, let us know, Ill actually listen to you and perhaps try it if it seems reasonable.
Peace out guys...
EDIT: And Im still not even saying your completly wrong UB btw, I could be agreeing that my specific choice of additive is shite in a few weeks, its just your complete refusal to admit you could even possibly be wrong is just pathetic when so many people look up to you for advice.
I also noticed you wont list the products that are "useless"? Afraid of getting sued by the companies of whom some can/will in court point out (with actual numbers) the errors of your generalisations? Go on, you run away too cos someone actually questioned you for once.
ANYWAY: To the OP, additives are by definition not necessary (if you buy balanced base nutes), but some of them can be helpful (as Im sure some of them are a sham). Unless someone else wants to show proof that statement is wrong, then it is as close to as straight an answer as you're gonna get. And since noone wants to try help list the useful (and useless) additives, you aint gonna get any more specific info...so dont listen to what some internet dicks tell you to do without a shred of evidence, buy what you want, use what you want and enjoy growing.
If you find a product thats useful, let us know, Ill actually listen to you and perhaps try it if it seems reasonable.
Peace out guys...
EDIT: And Im still not even saying your completly wrong UB btw, I could be agreeing that my specific choice of additive is shite in a few weeks, its just your complete refusal to admit you could even possibly be wrong is just pathetic when so many people look up to you for advice.
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO
New Member
see, that's what you don't get. I NEVER said they didn't work, I said, you have to buy the products they recommend to get the same thing you can get for $15 dollars from a product like dyna gro, You keep putting words into my mouth that I never said. But you 2 jerkoffs have fun buying and jacking off to the pretty girls on your exspensive nutes. I have to go sell some turds like you some additives.
insomnia47
Well-Known Member
well a fertilizer is not either complete or incomplete they are all different ratios and all our strains require different ratios. i noticed some browning on some leaves and deduced that it was a mag defficiency, i did a bit more research on the nutes i purchased blindly and discovered they did not contain enough mag for my MJ maybe its good for potatoes but i dont give a fuck about potatoes.
i dont use beneficial microbes, so i dont care if h202 kills em. what i want is a fully synthetic, clean and pure plant formula, i add h202 as a precaution to keep anaerobic microbes at bay.
hydroponic growing is about as un-natural as it gets so there will always be something we need to add to our reservoires to keep our environment within our control. i add an air stone to my res, is that an additive? surely i could just change out the water every day to keep it oxygenated, would that be efficient? no.
i also agree with victory gardens, i work in construction, my customers get architects that draw out some rrediculous shit, and sometime make us build things the wrong way or in efficently. its not my place to tell them they are wrong, i give them what they want. personally i wish your shop was in my neigborhood because my hydroshop pushes AN and walk around wearing shirts that say 420. i would much prefer an honest guy that told me the truth. regardless of what he sells. obviously its your job to provide for your customers what they want, regardless of how well it performs or how necessary it is. shit if someone crossed 2 plants together, no true breeding or selective cubbing or whatever and someone offered to buy the beans at 100$ a pop. are you gonna refuse to sell them cause they aint perfect yet? or just tell them what it is and let them make their own decisions. i dunno may be a bad analogy. but i get what your saying and agree whole heartedly.
and yeah im 90% sure that Canna is Cannabis specific fertilizers.
i dont use beneficial microbes, so i dont care if h202 kills em. what i want is a fully synthetic, clean and pure plant formula, i add h202 as a precaution to keep anaerobic microbes at bay.
hydroponic growing is about as un-natural as it gets so there will always be something we need to add to our reservoires to keep our environment within our control. i add an air stone to my res, is that an additive? surely i could just change out the water every day to keep it oxygenated, would that be efficient? no.
i also agree with victory gardens, i work in construction, my customers get architects that draw out some rrediculous shit, and sometime make us build things the wrong way or in efficently. its not my place to tell them they are wrong, i give them what they want. personally i wish your shop was in my neigborhood because my hydroshop pushes AN and walk around wearing shirts that say 420. i would much prefer an honest guy that told me the truth. regardless of what he sells. obviously its your job to provide for your customers what they want, regardless of how well it performs or how necessary it is. shit if someone crossed 2 plants together, no true breeding or selective cubbing or whatever and someone offered to buy the beans at 100$ a pop. are you gonna refuse to sell them cause they aint perfect yet? or just tell them what it is and let them make their own decisions. i dunno may be a bad analogy. but i get what your saying and agree whole heartedly.
and yeah im 90% sure that Canna is Cannabis specific fertilizers.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
That is a flat out lie, you said either they didnt work, or they did work but because the base nutes were deficient. Want me to quote you on that?
EDIT: insomnia47: Canna are for growing all flowering plants, not just Cannabis, so your 90% wrong on that one.
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO
New Member
according to there lawyers,It's not
http://www.canna-hydroponics.com/disclaimer_front?dest=www.cannagardening.com
insomnia47
Well-Known Member
i stand corrected, i read another growers journal talking about canna as a pot specific plant food, but i am no oracle.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
You dont have to be an "oracle" to look something up before you knock it with assumption.
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO
New Member
What I said was, Just so your little brain can understand,
16 micro nutes needed for plant health
I take say 5 of those nutes and call it Awseome juice$150 a gallon
I take another 5 and call it Gigantic bud juice $150 per gallon
and so on,
I put the basic N-P-K in a botlle and call it a base nute.
you need the awesome juice and pussyjuice and whate ever else to make a complete nute.
it's genious and people like you fall for it.
insomnia47
Well-Known Member
i dont think he's really the demographic tahts falling for it, since he's just trying out a little PK 13/14. but it sure is genious, and in a way makes it easier for noobs, when they get a schedule that says insert AB for 2 weeks, then add C for week 3-4 and D for 5 - 6 dash a bit of bottle E every other week. couple drops of bottle F for some roots.... etc etc...
i think we are arguing extreme ends of a spectrum when no one here is really using the Bud FactorX, Bud Igniter, Big Bud, Kush Kandy, Pussy Juice, fuckin Root juice, white shark, blah blah blahhhhh
experimenting with a few additives is nothing to argue about. if your just talking a bit of PK 13/14 really all your doing is modifying your NPK ratio during different stages. UB might do the same thing by adding some Jacks blossom booster during the calyx swelling period. different methods to the the same end result.
now if your pumping enzyme juice and growth hormone on your roots thats a different story. those are the "unproven" additives the Argiculture business is talking about. not a modified NPK ratio
i think we are arguing extreme ends of a spectrum when no one here is really using the Bud FactorX, Bud Igniter, Big Bud, Kush Kandy, Pussy Juice, fuckin Root juice, white shark, blah blah blahhhhh
experimenting with a few additives is nothing to argue about. if your just talking a bit of PK 13/14 really all your doing is modifying your NPK ratio during different stages. UB might do the same thing by adding some Jacks blossom booster during the calyx swelling period. different methods to the the same end result.
now if your pumping enzyme juice and growth hormone on your roots thats a different story. those are the "unproven" additives the Argiculture business is talking about. not a modified NPK ratio
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
So for example my Canna nutes will not work without PK13/14? And PK13/14 doesnt give any improvements when used along with the base nutes, just "average" results?
Got anything to back that up? Anything at all? Any sort of studies? Cannabis nutrient ratios? ANYTHING?
Still waiting on your list of real life "Awesome juice" and "Gigantic bud"...gonna provide that anytime soon? Or anything to back up your arrogant remarks?
And this is exactly what you said btw "what he has been telling you is
A product like dynagro has everything a plant needs for very little money.
other products seperate these complete nutes and put fancy names and pretty girls on the label and say there MJ specific.
you need to buy the whole line and mix it back together to get the same thing you could have got from dynagro.
the additives that work are the ones that are deficient in your base nute. get it?"
Sure fuck it actually, lets just feed Veg nutes the whole way through, do away with bloom nutes altogether, sure all we need is leaves for awesome buds, right?
EDIT: And insomnia47, you finally got my point there! I dont agree with all the bullshit additives that I know are sold every single day, but if something seems reasonable, is cheaply priced, from a HIGHLY reputable company and from hundreds of grow reports seems to give an improvement on yield Im going to try it. Im not however gonna stand for people who automatically say "additives dont work" and Im also at the other end of the spectrum not going to stand for people who tell me "they all work, they are awesome" because thats generalising on something with no proof.
Got anything to back that up? Anything at all? Any sort of studies? Cannabis nutrient ratios? ANYTHING?
Still waiting on your list of real life "Awesome juice" and "Gigantic bud"...gonna provide that anytime soon? Or anything to back up your arrogant remarks?
And this is exactly what you said btw "what he has been telling you is
A product like dynagro has everything a plant needs for very little money.
other products seperate these complete nutes and put fancy names and pretty girls on the label and say there MJ specific.
you need to buy the whole line and mix it back together to get the same thing you could have got from dynagro.
the additives that work are the ones that are deficient in your base nute. get it?"
Sure fuck it actually, lets just feed Veg nutes the whole way through, do away with bloom nutes altogether, sure all we need is leaves for awesome buds, right?
EDIT: And insomnia47, you finally got my point there! I dont agree with all the bullshit additives that I know are sold every single day, but if something seems reasonable, is cheaply priced, from a HIGHLY reputable company and from hundreds of grow reports seems to give an improvement on yield Im going to try it. Im not however gonna stand for people who automatically say "additives dont work" and Im also at the other end of the spectrum not going to stand for people who tell me "they all work, they are awesome" because thats generalising on something with no proof.
Can't we have a legitimate conversation here victory?! Like I said I'm too old to be 'jerking off' to my plants, I do not own products with 'sexy girls' on them (you sell them though), I'm not a 'twit' etc. The only reason this threat has gone this direction is because you two are so fucking self righteous and belittling. All I wanted to see is people stating their additives (if they use them) and what their experience has been. Has there been any comparison grows etc. Can we back any claims up with grow journals etc. Basically, is there a consensus on any of the additives, and can it be backed up?
As of now, nobody growing in hydro has posted one fucking grow pic of a plant that was grown only with one complete fertilizer. We got a 'sage' that has not seen a healthy hydro grow and grows in dirt, and a hydro store owner that is going to be out of business if his customers agree with him.