Constitution.

[txhazard]

Our nation or rather government really is not following the constitution like it should be. (IMO)

I want to know what other American citizens think about our present government and its relationship with its constitution. Does the majority of our populace just not care?

I pose this question because we have not declared war on a nation since WW2, and other things like The Forever War Act being passed by house.

I dont care what political camp you side with, just thought it would be an interesting conversation.

 

[deprave]

our government has a relationship with the constitution?

Whats that?

Esplain



Exactly.

The relationship has been written off from the year after it was written more and more rapidly each day, the hemp paper slowly burns and the fire only gets more fierce. We are near the tipping point, all that is left is a small fragment with huge flame, and here we sit with a bucket of water known as the 'liberty movement' while our government pokes holes in the bucket and blows on the fire.

 

[NoDrama]

People don't give a rats ass about the government or the Constitution as long as they are gaining some kind of benefit directly from said government.

 

[Jeffdt1966]

I've become so disgusted with politics .... Its kinda scary to look ahead very far with the way things are going .... the whole world just seems overrun with blind sheep who are to stupid to care about anything that doesnt directly effect them today ... too many trading the future for not having to speak up today ... humanity - wonderful buncha fucks we are ....

 

[The Ruiner]

Everyone here seems to thrive on the Constitutional freedoms...no other country in the world exists where its own populace can rage blindly against government actions that they do not understand. Only here in America can people talk this much shit about their government and get away with it...

I finally get it...you are all victims right? Persecuted by "the man?" No rights, no freedoms? AWW pobresito...

Bullshit...too many are unwilling to be unabashedly honest about how much they actually BENEFIT from "the way things are" in terms of liberties and freedom. Either unwilling, or completely oblivious...so much for "being awake," what a fucking joke!

 

[txhazard]

Everyone here seems to thrive on the Constitutional freedoms...no other country in the world exists where its own populace can rage blindly against government actions that they do not understand. Only here in America can people talk this much shit about their government and get away with it...

I finally get it...you are all victims right? Persecuted by "the man?" No rights, no freedoms? AWW pobresito...

Bullshit...too many are unwilling to be unabashedly honest about how much they actually BENEFIT from "the way things are" in terms of liberties and freedom. Either unwilling, or completely oblivious...so much for "being awake," what a fucking joke!

Not quite seeing what your angle, ^^^ sound a little convoluted...dont take that as a jab.

 

[mame]

Which laws are on the books that are unconstitutional? So many claim love for the founding fathers and the constitution and call foul like "that's not what the founding fathers would have wanted!"... Seems to me too many people just scream "gah it's unconstitutional!" when they disagree with legislation. The most obvious example being so-called "constitutionalists" who hypocritically oppose a woman's right to choose - despite the ruling protecting said right enumerated by the constitution.

The founding fathers created the SCOTUS to interpret the constitution. The only interpretation that matters is the SCOTUS. That is how the founding fathers intended.

 

[Mr Neutron]

Which laws are on the books that are unconstitutional? So many claim love for the founding fathers and the constitution and call foul like "that's not what the founding fathers would have wanted!"... Seems to me too many people just scream "gah it's unconstitutional!" when they disagree with legislation. The most obvious example being so-called "constitutionalists" who hypocritically oppose a woman's right to choose - despite the ruling protecting said right enumerated by the constitution.

The founding fathers created the SCOTUS to interpret the constitution. The only interpretation that matters is the SCOTUS. That is how the founding fathers intended.

The 16th Amendment and the Patriot Act, just to name two.
Ah, the SCOTUS... ALL HAIL THE SCOTUS... THE SCOTUS IS GOOD, THE SCOTUS IS WISE, THE SCOTUS IS ALL POWERFUL... ALL HAIL THE SCOTUS
BTW, our "rights" do not come from the Constitution, the Constitution was created to PROTECT our rights. These rights are natural or God given, however you prefer.

 

[cannabisguru]

Our nation or rather government really is not following the constitution like it should be. (IMO)

I want to know what other American citizens think about our present government and its relationship with its constitution. Does the majority of our populace just not care?

I pose this question because we have not declared war on a nation since WW2, and other things like The Forever War Act being passed by house.

I dont care what political camp you side with, just thought it would be an interesting conversation.

Exactly. Its a fucking disgrace to our forefathers! I mean it really is! It's also the reason why this country has gone to shit.. one of the reasons anyhow. Actually, its a pretty big reason IMO.. I don't think its right. Just goes to show how ignorant and retarded the U.S. Government really and truly is.

I don't care for politics.. so to speak. I'll debate with people all day though.. if its a subject that I'm educated on and know enough about. I mean, facts are facts.. period! For our own government.. to not follow the rules of the constitution!?!? Yeah, they're setting a great fucking example for the younger generations.. wouldn't ya say?!? Fucking ignorant assholes is all they are.. no 'ifs' or 'buts' about it either. And yet, we can't seem to understand why the younger generations act they way they do.. and do the stupid shit that they do. Well, there's one of your answers right there America!

America - Try setting a GOOD example for once!?!?! sheesh... fucking pathetic!

peace..

 

[jeff f]

Which laws are on the books that are unconstitutional? So many claim love for the founding fathers and the constitution and call foul like "that's not what the founding fathers would have wanted!"... Seems to me too many people just scream "gah it's unconstitutional!" when they disagree with legislation. The most obvious example being so-called "constitutionalists" who hypocritically oppose a woman's right to choose - despite the ruling protecting said right enumerated by the constitution.

The founding fathers created the SCOTUS to interpret the constitution. The only interpretation that matters is the SCOTUS. That is how the founding fathers intended.

you may know a lot about phoney baloney keynsian charts but you arent very familiar with the constitution. and abortion? thats your big issue? its been legal here since forever. many americans, probably most, dont want to pay for it because of morality issues. its sad, when the biggest thing youre worried about is killing babies.

scotus was sort of an afterthought for the founders. the supreme court can and should be over ruled by congress. especially when you have idiots like breyer who think foreign law should be part of scotus decision making process. thats fucking ridiculous period. his ass should be in jail. it was never intended to be the be-all-end-all that it is today and they were pretty clear on this in federalists papers.

patriot act, which gets more ridiculous everytime its passed.

you will find eminent domain abuses all over the place.

search and seizure violations everywhere. indiana court just said its against the law to stop police from illegally entering your home. total violation dating back to when the british would take up rooms in houses.

around here they have road blocks that stop every car going down a highway. total fucking violation.

the commerce clause is consistently violated. our congress distorts everything to fall under commerce so they can control it. totally unconstitutional.

forcing anybody to buy anything (obamacare) is a violation of the constitution. sure there will be judges that side with obama, and they should be impeached because it is very clear to thinking people that this is uncontitutional.

the fed seems to be out of control and fucking up everything too. wouldnt surprise me if there was a whole bunch of shit they are doing that is unconstitutional

and the list is way bigger than that but thats off the top of my hungover head.

 

[deprave]

Which laws are on the books that are unconstitutional? So many claim love for the founding fathers and the constitution and call foul like "that's not what the founding fathers would have wanted!"... Seems to me too many people just scream "gah it's unconstitutional!" when they disagree with legislation. The most obvious example being so-called "constitutionalists" who hypocritically oppose a woman's right to choose - despite the ruling protecting said right enumerated by the constitution.

The founding fathers created the SCOTUS to interpret the constitution. The only interpretation that matters is the SCOTUS. That is how the founding fathers intended.

uh.....well just about the whole constitution is written off with contracts and laws - Drivers License, Income Taxes, Property Taxes, Search&Seizures, Warrant-less Wiretapping, The Drug war, I could do this all day really but lets just leave it at that. I think you need a basic constitutional law class mame.

The consitution is inteded to be a living document, its ment to apply to all generations, these rights are not given to us by the government, they are human rights for all people.

 

[mame]

you may know a lot about phoney baloney keynsian charts but you arent very familiar with the constitution. and abortion? thats your big issue? its been legal here since forever. many americans, probably most, dont want to pay for it because of morality issues. its sad, when the biggest thing youre worried about is killing babies.

I dont give a shit about social issues mostly. It was an example to highlight the obvious hypocrisy. I am fairly familiar with the Constitution, I do not know it word for word or anything of the sort - but I'm not ignorant on the subject.

forcing anybody to buy anything (obamacare) is a violation of the constitution. sure there will be judges that side with obama, and they should be impeached because it is very clear to thinking people that this is uncontitutional.

See, this is what I mean. This is an opinion. It is not the opinion of the SCOTUS so it is an opinion that does not really matter. The majority of expert opinions believe Obamacare is constitutional; Assuming the SCOTUS agrees, you're going to have to get used to it. Sorry, champ.

Do you understand why supreme court judges are appointed and not elected? It's to ensure that they make the right decision while being shielded from the politicization of the voting process. Just think of all the rulings the SCOTUS has made protecting rights of minorities, etc etc that if subjected to the voting process would have good judges losing their jobs or worse yet - they deny rights for fear of losing their jobs. Now, I'm not saying the SCOTUS is perfect(I personally disagree with the Citizens united decision as well as the Patriot act) - but the founding fathers put the system in place thinking it was their best option, dont like it? Too bad IMO. It seems to be working good in most cases. You have a better solution?

 

[NoDrama]

Which laws are on the books that are unconstitutional? So many claim love for the founding fathers and the constitution and call foul like "that's not what the founding fathers would have wanted!"... Seems to me too many people just scream "gah it's unconstitutional!" when they disagree with legislation. The most obvious example being so-called "constitutionalists" who hypocritically oppose a woman's right to choose - despite the ruling protecting said right enumerated by the constitution.

The founding fathers created the SCOTUS to interpret the constitution. The only interpretation that matters is the SCOTUS. That is how the founding fathers intended.

haha, because someone is "Pro-Life" does not mean they are against a woman's right to choose, they are just personally against killing a fetus/baby. Of course there are those who are pro life and want to see abortion made illegal, but those are the extreme fringe people. You abortion rights people crack me up, as do those pro life jokers. At each others throat over something most of you will never have to experience.


The founding fathers did NOT create the supreme court to interpret the Constitution, NO WHERE in the Constitution is this power enumerated. The Court was created to enforce judicial review...the ability to nullify actions by the Legislative or Executive. It was also to solve disputes between the states and the states and federal. Checks and balances my friend, not constitutional interpretation. You should read the Constitution so that you actually know what it says instead of just "Guessing".

 

[The Ruiner]

Not quite seeing what your angle, ^^^ sound a little convoluted...dont take that as a jab.

I am getting at the notion that pretty much everyone on this forum has a "thank you" due to "the way things are." Whether they realize it or not, the world is far more complicated than most here can appreciate. And what is right there in front of them to appreciate, they assume is duly theirs while bitching about how it got there. It just makes no sense at all...condemn the whole structure or don't...but you cant take some parts and dispense of the others....It's just the way life is...

 

[jeff f]

I dont give a shit about social issues mostly. It was an example to highlight the obvious hypocrisy. I am fairly familiar with the Constitution, I do not know it word for word or anything of the sort - but I'm not ignorant on the subject.
See, this is what I mean. This is an opinion. It is not the opinion of the SCOTUS so it is an opinion that does not really matter. The majority of expert opinions believe Obamacare is constitutional; Assuming the SCOTUS agrees, you're going to have to get used to it. Sorry, champ.

Do you understand why supreme court judges are appointed and not elected? It's to ensure that they make the right decision while being shielded from the politicization of the voting process. Just think of all the rulings the SCOTUS has made protecting rights of minorities, etc etc that if subjected to the voting process would have good judges losing their jobs or worse yet - they deny rights for fear of losing their jobs. Now, I'm not saying the SCOTUS is perfect(I personally disagree with the Citizens united decision as well as the Patriot act) - but the founding fathers put the system in place thinking it was their best option, dont like it? Too bad IMO. It seems to be working good in most cases. You have a better solution?

well two decisions that always come first to mind are dred scott and jim crowe. the nine douchbag lawyers on the court were wrong....not by a little, but by a ton.

scotus are nothing more than lawyers. and mostly lawyers a fucking scum sucking bottom feeders. and several are just political hack lawyers that piss on the constitution almost daily.

they are not infallable and should be slapped down more often then they are.

this indiana court decision is the most recent of the fucking ludicrous decisions. obviously not the scotus but lawyers none the less

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_ec169697-a19e-525f-a532-81b3df229697.html

we have elevated the scotus to status never intended in the constitution.

 

[txhazard]

@ Ruiner: thank you for the clarification...because clarification is a beautiful thing.

@Mame: I do believe NoDrama is correct on this point. Scotus has become more of a tool (in my humble opinion) for the federal as opposed to what they were intended for.

 

[txhazard]

"We have elevated the scotus to status never intended in the constitution."

Amen.

 

[sync0s]

I dont give a shit about social issues mostly. It was an example to highlight the obvious hypocrisy. I am fairly familiar with the Constitution, I do not know it word for word or anything of the sort - but I'm not ignorant on the subject.
See, this is what I mean. This is an opinion. It is not the opinion of the SCOTUS so it is an opinion that does not really matter. The majority of expert opinions believe Obamacare is constitutional; Assuming the SCOTUS agrees, you're going to have to get used to it. Sorry, champ.

Do you understand why supreme court judges are appointed and not elected? It's to ensure that they make the right decision while being shielded from the politicization of the voting process. Just think of all the rulings the SCOTUS has made protecting rights of minorities, etc etc that if subjected to the voting process would have good judges losing their jobs or worse yet - they deny rights for fear of losing their jobs. Now, I'm not saying the SCOTUS is perfect(I personally disagree with the Citizens united decision as well as the Patriot act) - but the founding fathers put the system in place thinking it was their best option, dont like it? Too bad IMO. It seems to be working good in most cases. You have a better solution?

For someone who is so knowledgeable about the constitution, you quickly forget the opening line "By the people, For the people." In America, opinion should always matter. Although, it should always be a back burner to protecting equal rights.

All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression.
Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

Somebody being pro life does not mean their not an accurate 'constitutionalist' as you say. This is like saying they should believe murder can be legal cause you have the right to choose to kill someone (don't get me wrong, I'm pro choice and do not believe abortion is murder, just illustrating the stretch). The social issue of abortion is all on peoples different opinions on what point it is considered human life. However, it is tough to argue the statistical plausibility that legal abortion has a profound impact on future crime reduction (Please don't argue this, just refer to freakonomics)

Lastly, why do people always use this baby argument about how good we have it compared to the rest of the world. This is the last time I'm going to say this: The United States of Americas freedom is not measured by the freedoms seen around the world. The world is measured by the freedoms seen in America. If the first was true, than we could do away with a whole slew of constitutional freedoms given to us by the founding fathers of America. The founding fathers are quoted multiple times saying that America will not fall because of it's enemies, but rather from within.

 

[Dan Kone]

People don't give a rats ass about the government or the Constitution as long as they are gaining some kind of benefit directly from said government.

Hypothetically, do you think it's more important for government to obey the constitution over acting in the best interests of the people?

 

[Dan Kone]

The 16th Amendment and the Patriot Act, just to name two.

lol. If something is in the constitution how can it be unconstitutional?