Sick Plants no idea (pics)
- Thread starter Needhelp146
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Needhelp146
Active Member
Thanks for the ideas I will put them to work. I did a flush 2 days ago. Tomorrow I will water with fert again. I think it should fix the problem.
Needhelp146
Active Member
If I remember I will post pics and what the problem was to help anyone in this same predicament.
Needhelp146
Active Member
48 hour after flush
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Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Whilst i have never heard this i recently heard someone say that molasses will affect pH. I do believe that biobizz is organic and in healthy soil with cal/mag as well pH shouldnt be a problem here and that the soil organisms will also buffer the soil back up as they consume the mollases or biobizz.
Yes it seems true but i have yet to work out why, all things point to this not affecting the soil much if your growing organic. Still very intresting, i see some truth here but would like time to investigate before getting back to you. Totally well done for bringing up a point i didn't know about but am starting to hear about. Rep. Peace
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Anybody having pH trouble in soil either bought bad or cheap soil/nutes or they made a grower error... because most soils are buffered to about 6.6 (Biobizz All Mix being one example).
pHing in soil is pointless,just try adding some dolomite lime to the soil next grow if your using cheap soil/nutes.
Have none of the new growers noticed it's only other noobs who claim to have pH trouble in soil?
pHing in soil is pointless,just try adding some dolomite lime to the soil next grow if your using cheap soil/nutes.
Have none of the new growers noticed it's only other noobs who claim to have pH trouble in soil?
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Spot on dude, new growers are given a lot of bad info, not there fault they repeat it, just part of the learning curve i suppose. I never have pH issues in soil. Different from built up ferts in soil which will adverselt affect the pH of the runoff, i even give up reading runoff these days mostly, i know my pH is sweet so why worry. Thanks dude for stepping up and saying this. Peace
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
But the only way ferts will build up in the soil is if there is some rampant over-nuting going on with low quality nutes. Most high quality nutes contain buffers too.
The trick is really to learn to read your plants health,colour,vigour,etc and you'll know when they need nutes as opposed to following a schedule.
I just wish noobs would stop taking and giving bad advice without any actual experience themselves...pity the rep system doesn't actually work,it'd help alot in knowing who's good and who's not.
The trick is really to learn to read your plants health,colour,vigour,etc and you'll know when they need nutes as opposed to following a schedule.
I just wish noobs would stop taking and giving bad advice without any actual experience themselves...pity the rep system doesn't actually work,it'd help alot in knowing who's good and who's not.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Just read back through this...clearly the underlined above is whats causing your problems. Just flush the soil and start nuting properly this time. Organic nutes dont even have time to break down in two days...Id say your runoff was a dirty yellow/red/brown colour?
Needhelp146
Active Member
Thanks Harrekin you are right. Flush done starting over thanks for the help 1st year I have ever had problems.I knew better. Just reading the nutes label is not good enough. Your right need to watch the plants they will tell the story.
Needhelp146
Active Member
Well it was a over nuting problem. Don't just read the label read the plant. Doing much better.Thanks for the help
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Harrekin
Well-Known Member
You see the problem is Biobizz nutes have a pH of 4 (I probed it before) and because they're organics they take a few days to break down.
If you feed with them daily or every second day they build up in the soil and act as a buffer. Obviously the soil won't get anywhere close to pH4, but it drops it below 6 (tested runoff after a plain water watering when I was using Biobizz and got 5.7).
My solution was to ditch Biobizz,it's just completly CRAP compared to other ferts tbh.
Hope this helps!
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Your runoff can go all the way down to 5.5 for all i care, this is just a measure of the salts in the soil not the actual soil itself, pH is really misunderstood, dont mistake it for salt build up like you are describing. If the runoff has a low pH then also read the ppm of it, should the ppm be a little high like 1600 then yes definatly salt buildup
Now to say Biobizz is crap is basically a sin to most biobizz growers. In organics wait over a week to see the full impact of the last feed hence why the biobizz company and i think chart is structured so you feed once a week. Less is definatly more with biobizz too. Dosent matter what pH the pure undiluted biobizz is, arent most ferts highly acidic when neat, read the ingredients its pretty concentrated stuff in most ferts.
Now basically a few simple questions
- Why are you worrying about pH in organics? I dont ph my water or ferts no more and never had one single pH problem, in fact i think the microherd appreciate me not throwing chemical acids and alkalis at them and anyways these little guys buffer the soil back up to pH7 cause thats what they like to do.
- If you are thinking the Biobizz is crap i am thinking somthing else is wrong to make you think that, i also struggled to get use to Biobizz but imo it is by far one of the best, lacks calcium though and extra mag supplements will be needed now and again but that said cal/mag is a cheap buy.
Maybe we should turn this thread into a small pH discussion and maybe touch on ferts as well if your plants are ok now. Anyway the main thing is your plants are ok and doing good and you worked out the problem, i like to hug my plants when there doing well and give them a slap when there playing up. Peace
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
I don't think you understand what I'm saying...
1. You still have to worry about the pH of the rootzone or you won't make nutrients available to the plant. You don't need to pH it going into the pot, that bit you get, but the pH of your soil is still important
2. I'm not talking about salt buildup,I'm talking about actual Biogrow and Biobloom buildup in your rootzone. Because the pH of these is so low, the more you add the more it will drop the pH of your rootzone because it begins to act as a buffer itself and with a starting ph of 4 it's a pretty acidic buffer too.
3. Testing runoff gives an indication of the levels of crap in your soil effecting the pH of your rootzone, because as stated in point 2, unused nutes will buffer your rootzone lower.
4. The micro-herd doesn't buffer your rootzone, buffers in the soil do (Dolomite lime being the most used because it's cheap and buffers to around 7).
I used Biobizz for nearly 2 years, it's thick barely refined waste from sugar cane processing...I changed to a different fert and suffer none of the problems Biobizz gave. Trust me, buy a decent fert or if you wanna play organic then brew up your own teas,but Biobizz is crap and the only reason most use it is because it's the cheapest bottled organic fert on the Market.
Before you defend Biobizz again, is it all youve ever used?
And by the way,Biobizz recommend 2-4ml per litre every watering on the bottle...but if you follow a feeding schedule you need to know that they are all complete bullshit. Just learn to read what your plants want and feed accordingly.
Their All-Mix soil has massive quantities of Cal-Mag already btw so it fits in with their incomplete nutes.
If Biobizz were complete nutrients I might be inclined to say they're just ok instead of crap... but it's not,and any incomplete nute is a waste of time to begin with regardless of all the other problems they provide.
But whatever,my plants have never been greener,healthier or yielded more since I switched away from them...I'll just let you (eventually) learn it yourself when you try something else.
1. You still have to worry about the pH of the rootzone or you won't make nutrients available to the plant. You don't need to pH it going into the pot, that bit you get, but the pH of your soil is still important
2. I'm not talking about salt buildup,I'm talking about actual Biogrow and Biobloom buildup in your rootzone. Because the pH of these is so low, the more you add the more it will drop the pH of your rootzone because it begins to act as a buffer itself and with a starting ph of 4 it's a pretty acidic buffer too.
3. Testing runoff gives an indication of the levels of crap in your soil effecting the pH of your rootzone, because as stated in point 2, unused nutes will buffer your rootzone lower.
4. The micro-herd doesn't buffer your rootzone, buffers in the soil do (Dolomite lime being the most used because it's cheap and buffers to around 7).
I used Biobizz for nearly 2 years, it's thick barely refined waste from sugar cane processing...I changed to a different fert and suffer none of the problems Biobizz gave. Trust me, buy a decent fert or if you wanna play organic then brew up your own teas,but Biobizz is crap and the only reason most use it is because it's the cheapest bottled organic fert on the Market.
Before you defend Biobizz again, is it all youve ever used?
And by the way,Biobizz recommend 2-4ml per litre every watering on the bottle...but if you follow a feeding schedule you need to know that they are all complete bullshit. Just learn to read what your plants want and feed accordingly.
Their All-Mix soil has massive quantities of Cal-Mag already btw so it fits in with their incomplete nutes.
If Biobizz were complete nutrients I might be inclined to say they're just ok instead of crap... but it's not,and any incomplete nute is a waste of time to begin with regardless of all the other problems they provide.
But whatever,my plants have never been greener,healthier or yielded more since I switched away from them...I'll just let you (eventually) learn it yourself when you try something else.
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Well said dude, i like your opinions and feel like i might learn somthing here.
I cant get into all the subject were crossing in one go as that would leave me writting an essay and no body likes that!lol! So peice by peice lets pull it apart and find the truth-
4. The micro-herd doesn't buffer your rootzone, buffers in the soil do (Dolomite lime being the most used because it's cheap and buffers to around 7).
This question first please, if they dont buffer your soil then explain how the forest with no lime whatsoever outside my window holds its soil pH at around 6 all year round, we have lots of acid rain that falls below pH6 due to heavy industries up the road and yet the soil rises above the pH.
Whatever you add as organic ferts please remember their chemical composition is changed when eaten by the soil microherd, isnt what comes out the other end at a different pH and composition? I certainly know a lot of the bad soil microbes produce acidic conditions very quickly, overwater the soil for a long time and culture these microbes, then you realise very acidic runoff from the acidic crap they produce.
So no i wouldnt say what you add to the rootzone has much impact on growth but i dont think the roots would appreciate pH 5 or pH 9 liquids being added, might stress and shock the roots.
Funny enough it is not actually the roots process the nutrients it is the soil funghi that process and make it available, some funghi transport the nutrients directly into the root, as we all know about mycohzzial funghi and what they do. It is true to say that without funghi we wouldnt have green plants today.
Now pure water is a vacum and dosent conduct electricity, add some basic elements and you got water which we see out of the tap, rainwater absorbs carbon on the way down which alters its pH to 6.5 from a pure pH7. Your water is ever changing and dependant on what is around to dissolve or absorb, when the microbes in the soil work the resultant water values are changed.
Simply put soil organisms do alter pH as do the similar organisms which keep our human bodies at just above pH7 even though salt and sugar based food are always acidic, why dont you pH your food nutrients and then pH your blood, funny how it isnt dependant on the salts and nutrients we ate but more on the final processed products.
Id like to agree with all that you say and dont get me wrong i do agree with some parts but its just soil and human microherds do affect the pH and to a great deal otherwise they would never be able to establish in the first place, it is there byproducts that do it and their ability like ours to injest different pH compounds in order to achieve this.
The science of plants is just not limited to plants, it is the reason why everything is here.
I cant get into all the subject were crossing in one go as that would leave me writting an essay and no body likes that!lol! So peice by peice lets pull it apart and find the truth-
4. The micro-herd doesn't buffer your rootzone, buffers in the soil do (Dolomite lime being the most used because it's cheap and buffers to around 7).
This question first please, if they dont buffer your soil then explain how the forest with no lime whatsoever outside my window holds its soil pH at around 6 all year round, we have lots of acid rain that falls below pH6 due to heavy industries up the road and yet the soil rises above the pH.
Whatever you add as organic ferts please remember their chemical composition is changed when eaten by the soil microherd, isnt what comes out the other end at a different pH and composition? I certainly know a lot of the bad soil microbes produce acidic conditions very quickly, overwater the soil for a long time and culture these microbes, then you realise very acidic runoff from the acidic crap they produce.
So no i wouldnt say what you add to the rootzone has much impact on growth but i dont think the roots would appreciate pH 5 or pH 9 liquids being added, might stress and shock the roots.
Funny enough it is not actually the roots process the nutrients it is the soil funghi that process and make it available, some funghi transport the nutrients directly into the root, as we all know about mycohzzial funghi and what they do. It is true to say that without funghi we wouldnt have green plants today.
Now pure water is a vacum and dosent conduct electricity, add some basic elements and you got water which we see out of the tap, rainwater absorbs carbon on the way down which alters its pH to 6.5 from a pure pH7. Your water is ever changing and dependant on what is around to dissolve or absorb, when the microbes in the soil work the resultant water values are changed.
Simply put soil organisms do alter pH as do the similar organisms which keep our human bodies at just above pH7 even though salt and sugar based food are always acidic, why dont you pH your food nutrients and then pH your blood, funny how it isnt dependant on the salts and nutrients we ate but more on the final processed products.
Id like to agree with all that you say and dont get me wrong i do agree with some parts but its just soil and human microherds do affect the pH and to a great deal otherwise they would never be able to establish in the first place, it is there byproducts that do it and their ability like ours to injest different pH compounds in order to achieve this.
The science of plants is just not limited to plants, it is the reason why everything is here.
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
And please please please do not fall out with me over this discussion, others have heated debates going on for ever and it only leads to arguments, so what we got differing veiws, if you can discredit my info with better info naturally i will call you right and rep for good info.
I feel rollitup thrives on discussions about these topics, yes biobizz is lame but when you realise this you just add what is missing and it becomes great, shame they just couldnt tell you this on the bottle, like they dont want you to grow great plants and what a rip for having to buy the relevant supplements. Most fert companies i have dealt with also have this basic problem.
Please continue the discussion as i like your style, we wouldnt learn anything if we didnt bash the truth out of it in the first place. Who knows or cares whos right or wrong as long as we all get along and futher our knowledge.
Peace bro and still glad to see the grows going good.
I feel rollitup thrives on discussions about these topics, yes biobizz is lame but when you realise this you just add what is missing and it becomes great, shame they just couldnt tell you this on the bottle, like they dont want you to grow great plants and what a rip for having to buy the relevant supplements. Most fert companies i have dealt with also have this basic problem.
Please continue the discussion as i like your style, we wouldnt learn anything if we didnt bash the truth out of it in the first place. Who knows or cares whos right or wrong as long as we all get along and futher our knowledge.
Peace bro and still glad to see the grows going good.