Sick Plants no idea (pics)

This comes from garden web, note point 8 -


"Chemical fertilizers rely on an assumption that plants only need three elements to survive and thrive. Nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium are those three. This is the equivalent of saying that we need protein, fat, and sugar to live. While this may be mostly true, pure protein, pure fat, and pure sugar do nothing to supply the vitamins, minerals, and diverse supply of bacteria and fungi in our diets.
Here is a list of a dozen things that you can do with organically fed soil that cannot be achieved with conventional chemical feeding.
1. Decompose plant residues and manure to humus.
2. Retain nutrients in the form of stable humus.
3. Combine nitrogen and carbon to prevent nutrient loss.

4. Suppress fungus and bacterial diseases.
5. Produce plant growth regulators.
6. Develop soil structure, tilth, and water penetration/retention.
7. Clean up chemical residues.
8. Shift soil pH to neutral and keep it there.
9. Search out and retrieve nutrients in distant parts of the soil.
10. Decompose thatch and keep it from returning.
11. Control nitrogen supply to the plants according to need.
12. Pull minerals out of inorganic soil components for plants. Soil microbes need sugar and protein to thrive. When you apply synthetic ferts, none of the things on this list gets done. The microbes normally get sugar from plant roots. Protein in nature comes from dead insects, plants, and animals. The organic gardener applies protein artificially in the form or organic fertilizers. It is usually in the form of a ground up meal made from plants and animals to try to replicate the natural process."

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/organic/2002114848008095.html

I think this info is printed across the soil microbe and organic fertilizer sections for most places. Peace

Needhelp146 said:

Well it was a over nuting problem. Don't just read the label read the plant. Doing much better.Thanks for the help

Click to expand...

Just because you flushed and they perked back up doesn't mean you were overfeeding...

Yer i still agree with max on the overfeeding, i have gained a lot of knowledge since this thread started and i dont really see overfeeding either from the first picture. More some imbalance or deficiency but hell i couldnt nail it down much more just i dont think overfeeding. Peace

I can guarantee the flush worked because it washed out all the built-up Biobizz that was buffering the pH too low and causing nutrient lockout.

You're on the right path Kingrow1 but the microherd assumption is inaccurate. The microbes break the organic nutes down from large organic particles to smaller minerals available for the plant to use...BUT (this is the part we differ on) its actually the roots using the nutes in the pot up that brings the pH back to near neutral.

The soil in a forest contains other buffers, dolomite lime is just one of many.

I suppose in a sense we're both correct when you think about it, in the case of organic nutes its the action of microbes and the plants root hairs that normalises pH but in the case of synthetic nutes it would be purely the roots absorbing the nutes directly.

And the post above about chemical fertilisers only having NPK is a bit inaccurate, my nutrients contain all the elements my plants need, including humic and fulvic acid and most of the micronutes are chelated (it doesnt contain Copper for some reason, but deficiencies of this are extremely rare with any sort of pre-nuted soil).

The reason the flush worked for the OP was because he flushed out all the acidic Biobizz nutes (that he was using every watering, important to note that), which normalised his soils pH (because only the soils buffers remained, not the pH 4 Biobizz which when the water is absorbed by the plant returns to pH4) and made the nutrients available again. Its not too commonly known by newer growers that overfeeding can cause deficiencies by causing poor rootzone conditions, not just nutrient toxicity.

To be honest man, I think the only thing we actually disagree on is the Biobizz...and I only say its crap because its not at all balanced, provides no Guaranteed Analysis or anything vaguely near it on the bottle/website/anywhere and for the same price/difficulty of obtaining you can get better nutes.

Trust me, I thought Biobizz was great for 2 years and I was an idiot who couldnt use it properly, I soon learned it wasnt me at all when I tried other ferts.

Either way, we're having good conversation, please poke holes in what I say by all means and Ill try correct it...its how Iv learned so much so far!

EDIT: And this isnt my grow thread btw, but we are helping the OP, lol.

I think you have made some very good points

''You're on the right path Kingrow1 but the microherd assumption is inaccurate. The microbes break the organic nutes down from large organic particles to smaller minerals available for the plant to use...BUT (this is the part we differ on) its actually the roots using the nutes in the pot up that brings the pH back to near neutral.''

Actually i think i would believe this, certainly would explain a few things. Before i would have referenced what you said but im too old now!lol! i'll just take it that this is right and i suppose thanks for the knowledge.

Damn the biobizz part was hard to understand but i think i see what your saying, because it is imbalanced nutrient wise you may not be adding enough of one nutrient but in adding more to solve a deficiency we actually toxify with the rest of the nutrients and since there low in pH they sit in the soil so to say and affect the roots badly.

It took a couple of hours to even write this short reply, knowledge dose that to me!lol! The only thing i am still confused over is the biobizz and i love the stuff, it is workable but understand its limitations, what makes biobizz different than other organic ferts?? Peace